India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
I don't get it. What are we waiting for? At least in well delineated International border areas, can't we give muh tod jawab and sent back the chicom sissies in body bags? Lets us try and probe and prick these f**kers, where it hurts.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
One of the photos floating around as from the recent clash when PLA was detained by IA. (Not able to add the image here)
Link
Link
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Dilbu wrote:One of the photos floating around as from the recent clash when PLA was detained by IA. (Not able to add the image here)
Link
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
^^ This is from a movie
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Good. I want both PA & PLA to do this constantly. Otherwise our lot will be in "aititi devo bhavo" modeshyamd wrote:PLA ask us not to release photos in talks yet they backstab
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
I suggest all to see the latest images released in Chinese forums. It has made my blood boil and has destroyed my Sunday. I am not able to think straight and all I am hoping for is that we had hopefully retaliated in a bigger manner. If GoI has images - then not releasing them to the country is more of Chakka-niti rather than Chanakya-niti. Something is not right with this current NaMo dispensation. Getting regular citizens frustrated seeing India being humiliated by Khalistanis and Chinkis will only discourage for nationalist to come out and vote next time. What is the point of defeating BIF forces and then watching Nationlist government behaving like pussies even in face of national humiliation
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
While I take the point about the bureaucracy not being nationalist enough, I don't think the RSS would be the SS of our forces. Talk and words are easy. It's enduring touch conditions, going beyond the limit of normal endurance and risking your life daily, as our jawans do, on the LAC and LOC that makes them what they are.sajaym wrote:You want to hear what our true national identity sounds like? Read some of the statements of the RSS newspaper (I think it is called Saamna). You'll find that the statements sounds exactly like the statements of some of the paki / chinki newspapers. I think the need of the hour is to inject some of the RSS blood into the IAS and maybe even have a 'Republican Guards' or 'SS' version in our forces with RSS cadre.williams wrote:However look at their assertiveness. .....Our guys add the statement "because there is difference in perspective".
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Its a binary choice:
#1. China releases images, India doesnt - We're afraid (of accruing chinese wrath) and stupid (we dont know what psyops mean) at the sametime.
#2. We have no images to release - We were outplayed.
What is less damning - Being afraid/stupid or being outplayed ?
This binary truth is uncomfortable to accept and unacceptable for any jingo.
#1. China releases images, India doesnt - We're afraid (of accruing chinese wrath) and stupid (we dont know what psyops mean) at the sametime.
#2. We have no images to release - We were outplayed.
What is less damning - Being afraid/stupid or being outplayed ?
This binary truth is uncomfortable to accept and unacceptable for any jingo.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
This jingo is extremely proud of our forefathers from C-Company in Rezang-La who made their supreme sacrifice for the motherland. We lost that battle - but yet each one of us is indebted to those brave men on how they smashed Chinki heads till their last breath.
These pics have been released by Chicoms to dishonor our Galwan braves - there should be some response from GoI.
These pics have been released by Chicoms to dishonor our Galwan braves - there should be some response from GoI.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
I like the way you think. (Did you mean- vasudhaiva kutumbakam- all wold ij phamily, including encroachers).nam wrote:Good. I want both PA & PLA to do this constantly. Otherwise our lot will be in "aititi devo bhavo" modeshyamd wrote:PLA ask us not to release photos in talks yet they backstab
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
YashG wrote:Its a binary choice:
#1. China releases images, India doesnt - We're afraid (of accruing chinese wrath) and stupid (we dont know what psyops mean) at the sametime.
#2. We have no images to release - We were outplayed.
What is less damning - Being afraid/stupid or being outplayed ?
This binary truth is uncomfortable to accept and unacceptable for any jingo.
I think its #1
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
It’s like always we stick with agreements and others disregard those. It’s a matter of time but truth will come out. Anyway Napaki and their friend are known for lying. So there is no surprise. If they can hide it, then something didn’t happen. Their HnD is more important then truth
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Every time India draws a new line for the chicoms to cross it reminds me of these cartoons.YashG wrote: #1. China releases images, India doesnt - We're afraid (of accruing chinese wrath) and stupid (we dont know what psyops mean) at the sametime.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
So there you have it. China's reaction to the failure of the latest Army border talks:
India sleepwalks on border issue: Global Times editorial
India sleepwalks on border issue: Global Times editorial
However, the border issue between China and India remains stuck. The root cause is that Indian side still hasn't developed a correct attitude in the negotiations. It always makes unrealistic demands not in line with the real situation or its strength.
There it is, crystal clear. There will be no further withdrawal by China from any of it's current positions. Other than the de-escalation completed south of Pangong Tso, all other positions including DBO remain frozen.The Chinese people know that both China and India are great powers with enough national strength to sustain a long-time border standoff with each other. Such mutual attrition is regrettable, but if India is willing to do so, China will keep it company until the end. New Delhi needs to be clear about one thing: it will not get the border the way it wants. If it starts a war, it will definitely lose. Any political maneuvering and pressure will be ignored by China.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Well, if we believe the jokers at global times even one bit, then the only option left is to got kinetic.
Question is whether GoI, Forces, and common indians (let's just not talk abt joker opposition here) are ready for the eventalities and brave enough for a limited conflict with the chipkali?
Question is whether GoI, Forces, and common indians (let's just not talk abt joker opposition here) are ready for the eventalities and brave enough for a limited conflict with the chipkali?
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
China, India Point Fingers at Each Other in New Border Talks
China and India blamed each other for a lack of progress in finding ways to ease friction along their disputed border, underscoring the lingering ill will following clashes last year.
The Chinese side “made great efforts” to calm tensions during a meeting of military officials on Sunday, Colonel Long Shaohua, spokesperson for the Western theater of the People’s Liberation Army, said in a statement. “But India still stuck to unreasonable and unrealistic demands, which added difficulties to the negotiation,” according to the Monday statement, which said the talks were held at the Chushul-Moldo border meeting point in the Ladakh region.
The Indian military hit back, saying it made suggestions for resolving areas of dispute, “but the Chinese side was not agreeable and also could not provide any forward-looking proposals.” The army said in a statement, later reposted by the Indian foreign ministry, that it would be the “expectation that the Chinese side will take into account the overall perspective of bilateral relations and work towards the early resolution of remaining issues.”
China’s Foreign Ministry dismissed the Indian side’s statement as having no “factual basis,” in a regular press briefing in Beijing on Monday, and urged India to “abide by the relevant agreements and consensus raised between the two countries and two militaries.”
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Same position and posture reported on the only official English language PLA military website:
PLA spokesperson makes statement on latest China-India military talks
PLA spokesperson makes statement on latest China-India military talks
SourceChina Military OnlineEditorXu YiTime2021-10-11 10:14:34
BEIJING, Oct. 11 -- “Instead of misjudging the situation, the Indian side should cherish the hard-won situation in China-India border areas,” said Senior Colonel Long Shaohua, spokesperson for the Western Theater Command of the People's Liberation Army (PLA), on Monday.
The spokesperson made the remarks in a statement talking about the 13th round of China-India Corps Commander Level Meeting. According to him, the meeting was held on October 10 at the Moldo-Chushul border meeting point on the Chinese side.
The spokesperson said that during the meeting, the Chinese side made great efforts to promote the easing and cooling of the border situation and fully demonstrated China’s sincerity of maintaining overall interests of bilateral military relations. However, the Indian side still persisted in its unreasonable and unrealistic demands, which added difficulties to the negotiations.
The spokesperson pointed out that China is firm in its resolve to safeguard national sovereignty. He hoped that the Indian side should avoid misjudging the situation and cherish the hard-won situation in the China-India border areas. The Indian side should abide by the relevant agreements and consensus reached between the two countries and two militaries, show sincerity and take concrete actions to jointly safeguard peace and stability in the border areas with China, the spokesperson added.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Author Adhiraaj Anand is a master of international affairs candidate at the National University of Singapore, studying the role of perceptions in Sino-Indian relations.
How Does China’s Military View India?
How Does China’s Military View India?
The PLA views India’s growing military cooperation with the United States with some concern but generally does not consider India a major threat.
The Indian military sees China as its biggest threat, as Chief of Defense Staff Bipin Rawat made clear in an interview in June 2021. The Indian Army has moved 50,000 troops to its border with China in 2021, with about 20,000 troops in the Ladakh sector. So how does the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) view India? The PLA’s media, including the newspaper PLA Daily and the TV program “Defense Review,” offer some insights. It views India’s growing military cooperation with the United States with some concern but generally does not consider India a major threat.
Since 2018, in its articles and videos about India, the PLA’s online media have focused mainly on India’s partnership with the U.S., discussing the topic 23 times. It has featured India’s defense industry and arms purchases, discussed 21 times. India’s growing ties with the U.S. have often been juxtaposed with its relations with Russia, which have been discussed 13 times. By contrast, there were surprisingly few in-depth analyses or opinion pieces about the Sino-Indian border dispute, even during the Ladakh skirmish in 2020, with most articles about the issue being brief press releases about meetings to resolve the issue and using language such as “easing tensions,” “maintaining communication,” and “avoiding misunderstandings.”
Overall, we can conclude that the PLA does not consider India one of its primary security challenges and emphasizes maintaining peace on the border. It perceives India to still be attached to its long-running non-alignment philosophy in its relations with the United States. While the PLA sees India as behaving in an increasingly aggressive and expansionist manner in South Asia and the Indian Ocean, it downplays how far India’s actions in these latter theaters could go.
More recently, writers and experts in PLA media have reaffirmed the view that India is linking its Act East policy with the U.S. Indo-Pacific Strategy, seeing an opportunity to consolidate its dominance in South Asia and increase its control over the Indian Ocean. This explains why India has set up a network of bases and stations around the Indian Ocean in countries and territories including Madagascar, the Seychelles, Mauritius, the Maldives and India’s Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and has conducted exercises with the United States near the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.
Chinese military experts also see India’s closeness with the United States and other powers as a means for India to upgrade its weapons and defense systems and realize its goals on land. On the two countries’ intelligence cooperation, PLA Military Strategist Du Wenlong said on “Defense Review” that India could become “American Eye” a dangerous move with “sinister intentions.” However, experts on “Defense Review” are also of the opinion that recent Indian arms purchases from the United States do not actually give India a significant advantage and are mostly aimed at “buying American support” as well as domestic media consumption. Moreover, Chinese military analysts argues that progress implementing defense agreements between the United States and India, such as the four foundational agreements, has been slow, mostly talk with little action. Thus, any “alliance” between the U.S. and India is unlikely to last.
Chinese experts nevertheless recognize that India would not let itself be manipulated. New Delhi regards itself as a major power and wants to use its relationship with the U.S. to accelerate its own growth as a military and economic power while maintaining its strategic autonomy. As India becomes more powerful, the partnership could face challenges. Above all, the prospects of a true “alliance” between the United States and India are held back by a long-running philosophy of non-alignment in India’s foreign policy.
India-Russia relations are also often cited in PLA media as a factor preventing India from forming a true alliance with the U.S. Lou Chunhao, a professor at the China Institutes for Contemporary International Relations (CICIR), notes that New Delhi and Moscow have diverged on China-U.S. relations as well as the Indo-Pacific strategy and that as a result their ties are bound be less close than they were previously. Nevertheless, they are unlikely to part ways completely, due to their lack of historical animosity and the fact that they do not pose any security threats to each other. Moreover, there is still great potential for cooperation in military and other domains that the two countries would not want to waste – for example, Russia will want to compete with the United States for the Indian arms market. As one expert put it in “Defense Review,” Russia’s recent strategy has been to “both beat and pull India,” to warn it from getting too close to the United States while also offering opportunities for economic and military cooperation.
Furthermore, PLA media view India’s recent military exercises along its borders and coastline as reflective of a trend to “provoke bigger countries and suppress smaller countries” in its neighborhood. Certain purchases and tests of weaponry (such as Agni-5 missiles in 2021) are seen to be aimed more at politics and domestic consumption, to hype India’s big power status. Surprise attack drills near the Sino-Indian border in 2021 in particular were derided by Wang Xiaopeng and Du Wenlong on “Defense Review,” where they pointed out that with the unfavorable conditions on India’s borders, launching such attacks would be a foolish move. Such exercises, they argued, are thus meant primarily to divert domestic attention away from other issues including India’s struggles in dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic.
Overall, PLA media portray India’s recent moves as reflective of a binary “either non-alignment or alliance” trap. While the PLA has since 2013 perceived India to be moving away from non-alignment and entering a quasi-alliance with the United States, China’s military thinkers are now of the view that this is partnership unlikely to last long. Although India’s recent actions at both land and sea are viewed as provocative and reflective of an expansionist trend, the PLA and its media generally downplay the threat India poses to China.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
I think there's a link between the reported cyber attack success attributed to India by Exodus Intelligence, and the PLA's WTC having 3 heads in less than a year. The two heads who had only a few months tenure were probably shunted out as punishment. In the PLA, campaigns start with cyber and psy ops to shape the battlefield for tactical operations. So, any vulnerability in their own systems would be considered a serious lapse, liable to be punished.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Trouble with this argument is that PRC is trading blows in the cyber domain every day with various nations across the globe on a daily basis.Anoop wrote:I think there's a link between the reported cyber attack success attributed to India by Exodus Intelligence, and the PLA's WTC having 3 heads in less than a year. The two heads who had only a few months tenure were probably shunted out as punishment. In the PLA, campaigns start with cyber and psy ops to shape the battlefield for tactical operations. So, any vulnerability in their own systems would be considered a serious lapse, liable to be punished.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Most of the 8 hours was focused on PP15. As no headway could be made there the other planned agenda items were not discussed. Both medias are not reporting the exact military issues and what exchanges are taking place. Just selective leaking of a few statements to provoke emotions.ldev wrote:So there you have it. China's reaction to the failure of the latest Army border talks:
India sleepwalks on border issue: Global Times editorial
However, the border issue between China and India remains stuck. The root cause is that Indian side still hasn't developed a correct attitude in the negotiations. It always makes unrealistic demands not in line with the real situation or its strength.There it is, crystal clear. There will be no further withdrawal by China from any of it's current positions. Other than the de-escalation completed south of Pangong Tso, all other positions including DBO remain frozen.The Chinese people know that both China and India are great powers with enough national strength to sustain a long-time border standoff with each other. Such mutual attrition is regrettable, but if India is willing to do so, China will keep it company until the end. New Delhi needs to be clear about one thing: it will not get the border the way it wants. If it starts a war, it will definitely lose. Any political maneuvering and pressure will be ignored by China.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Sorry if I am behind the curve. What images were released?Larry Walker wrote:This jingo is extremely proud of our forefathers from C-Company in Rezang-La who made their supreme sacrifice for the motherland. We lost that battle - but yet each one of us is indebted to those brave men on how they smashed Chinki heads till their last breath.
These pics have been released by Chicoms to dishonor our Galwan braves - there should be some response from GoI.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Prof Srikanth Kondapalli feels conflict is looming with China. China is willing to go to war but not go back to pre Apr 2020 positions.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Yep, we know it. And they know it. That is the reason for Army chief Leh visit and the leaks about MIRV tested in Agni Prime. By now he would have reported back to the govt that we are all ready for a skirmish in LAC and he is in the south to further get ready if things get escalated. We are going to prove the Chins we are serious about LAC going back to Apr 2020 positions.csharma wrote:Prof Srikanth Kondapalli feels conflict is looming with China. China is willing to go to war but not go back to pre Apr 2020 positions.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
TWITTER
@daeroplate_v2 :
How effective is artillery + mlrs against stone bunkers in mountains? Took us weeks of pounding with 1000s of shells in kargil + close quarter fighting. Is cheen plagf standoff artillery having some secret sauce? Consider that fixed wing spotter drones will be shot down
Cheen vision is a shattering standoff artillery strike smokes our positions and then infantry and light mech units swoop in to mop up remnants/abandoned positions, avoiding messy contact battles…
Their version of deep battle could be threatening our mi17 and an32 air supply lanes to fwd areas esp in AP by suppressing airbases, leading to depletion of consumables and untenable situation.We are lacking both in fighter numbers and airbases in east. attrition will take a toll
Baki public toh expects govt to deliver win with no wickets lost. Just the sight of some burning infra amplified by breathless cub reporters and chalak anchors will seek to create a national panic and bow wow
In look down/shoot down mode with PL15 , the j11/j10 and y20 refueler combo presents a persistent long range threat to our transport ac and helis unless driven away. They have a lot of j11 and j10 to throw at this .. only issue is apron space for now but rapidly being upped..
All over place huge aprons with very long runways are being expanded. North of lhasa is perhaps largest helibase ever some 60 hangers…their new bases are not parasitic use of ww2 bases or civil airports bolted on like many of ours. No expenses spared ramstein/ al dhafra template
https://twitter.com/daeroplate_v2/statu ... fzY-g&s=19
@daeroplate_v2 :
How effective is artillery + mlrs against stone bunkers in mountains? Took us weeks of pounding with 1000s of shells in kargil + close quarter fighting. Is cheen plagf standoff artillery having some secret sauce? Consider that fixed wing spotter drones will be shot down
Cheen vision is a shattering standoff artillery strike smokes our positions and then infantry and light mech units swoop in to mop up remnants/abandoned positions, avoiding messy contact battles…
Their version of deep battle could be threatening our mi17 and an32 air supply lanes to fwd areas esp in AP by suppressing airbases, leading to depletion of consumables and untenable situation.We are lacking both in fighter numbers and airbases in east. attrition will take a toll
Baki public toh expects govt to deliver win with no wickets lost. Just the sight of some burning infra amplified by breathless cub reporters and chalak anchors will seek to create a national panic and bow wow
In look down/shoot down mode with PL15 , the j11/j10 and y20 refueler combo presents a persistent long range threat to our transport ac and helis unless driven away. They have a lot of j11 and j10 to throw at this .. only issue is apron space for now but rapidly being upped..
All over place huge aprons with very long runways are being expanded. North of lhasa is perhaps largest helibase ever some 60 hangers…their new bases are not parasitic use of ww2 bases or civil airports bolted on like many of ours. No expenses spared ramstein/ al dhafra template
https://twitter.com/daeroplate_v2/statu ... fzY-g&s=19
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
We have a lot of fortified positions. Taking our territory will neither be easy or fast.
Aircraft taking off from alt have payload limitations. So they'd have to surge more and run up against our AD, SAMs.
Having said that, our limited defence against PLARF and our low aircraft numbers (which makes us more vulnerable to attrition) are definitely an issue.
The GOI has to open up purse strings and spend more on defense on a sustained basis now. There is no other go.
Aircraft taking off from alt have payload limitations. So they'd have to surge more and run up against our AD, SAMs.
Having said that, our limited defence against PLARF and our low aircraft numbers (which makes us more vulnerable to attrition) are definitely an issue.
The GOI has to open up purse strings and spend more on defense on a sustained basis now. There is no other go.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
So we are ready for war just to achieve Apr 2020 positions. This is where I don't understand our policies and goals.williams wrote:Yep, we know it. And they know it. ... We are going to prove the Chins we are serious about LAC going back to Apr 2020 positions.csharma wrote:Prof Srikanth Kondapalli feels conflict is looming with China. China is willing to go to war but not go back to pre Apr 2020 positions.
If enemy knows that even if they loose, they don't have any territory to loose - what is the deterrence.
And for our forces, what is the motivation other than defending our beloved nation.
It should be conveyed to China that if War happens, we will fight to free Tibet and not stop to defend our perception of LAC.
And why should we fear to be public about this intention?
Ahh..economy? we can't disconnect from china like we do with papistan?
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
I say we should make a run for it and at least fully overtake their occupied Tibet highway and paralyze their hold over xinjiang uigyur region
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
I think all the war mongering is not well thought through.
Where we go from here is to match their deployment at the LAC. The real LAC, not some "perception" thingy because the LAC is exactly what we hold 100% of the time, from now onwards. And we ensure they are not able to lower their guard because if they do, we will move right into where they used to be. In other words, we do to them what they have been doing to us. Sure it is hard to be on guard through the length of the border, through the seasons and and through political ups and downs but we have a reasonably well-funded professional army (and air force) who have to make it their mission to ensure integrity and sovereignty. This will be any day cheaper than a hot war as some have suggested, while making our intentions and resolve clear to the Chinese.
Remember, we have more to lose and nothing much to gain if there is action on the border. Chinese assets of any value are extremely distant from the border/LAC.
Where we go from here is to match their deployment at the LAC. The real LAC, not some "perception" thingy because the LAC is exactly what we hold 100% of the time, from now onwards. And we ensure they are not able to lower their guard because if they do, we will move right into where they used to be. In other words, we do to them what they have been doing to us. Sure it is hard to be on guard through the length of the border, through the seasons and and through political ups and downs but we have a reasonably well-funded professional army (and air force) who have to make it their mission to ensure integrity and sovereignty. This will be any day cheaper than a hot war as some have suggested, while making our intentions and resolve clear to the Chinese.
Remember, we have more to lose and nothing much to gain if there is action on the border. Chinese assets of any value are extremely distant from the border/LAC.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
^ Sir, Chinese the next potential world power has much more to lose if they can not secure a complete win from a regional powerhouse like India. How they will project their power?
I have mentioned it earlier as well, India is not immediate target - their current target is Taiwan. They want to show to other regional players - don’t interfere when we take over Taiwan otherwise like India you will be in trouble in military terms.
Now China is playing a calculated game, the main question is - will India play by Chinese rules or will force the reverse. So far we have given mixed signals - mostly on the border we have played by their rules, there were exceptions like Galwan response and Kailash Range but we gave up the wins as usual.
On the economic front, we were innovative and enforcing costs to Chinese. Although they are finding alternative routes but sure pain is there.
I think, mostly Chinese are defeated on the diplomatic front, we are very confident and clear for once on the narrative and stating our story loudly.
Last but not least, MEA has to improve their communication and be assertive with their public statements - it’s still apologizing statements - disputed border and different perceptions etc. You don’t have to state in every statement, keep the statements short and crispy without going into details. For any Military questions, please get in touch with MoD full stop. Don’t be, I know all type guy.
My 2 cents on the situation!
I have mentioned it earlier as well, India is not immediate target - their current target is Taiwan. They want to show to other regional players - don’t interfere when we take over Taiwan otherwise like India you will be in trouble in military terms.
Now China is playing a calculated game, the main question is - will India play by Chinese rules or will force the reverse. So far we have given mixed signals - mostly on the border we have played by their rules, there were exceptions like Galwan response and Kailash Range but we gave up the wins as usual.
On the economic front, we were innovative and enforcing costs to Chinese. Although they are finding alternative routes but sure pain is there.
I think, mostly Chinese are defeated on the diplomatic front, we are very confident and clear for once on the narrative and stating our story loudly.
Last but not least, MEA has to improve their communication and be assertive with their public statements - it’s still apologizing statements - disputed border and different perceptions etc. You don’t have to state in every statement, keep the statements short and crispy without going into details. For any Military questions, please get in touch with MoD full stop. Don’t be, I know all type guy.
My 2 cents on the situation!
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
yensoy wrote:I think all the war mongering is not well thought through.
Remember, we have more to lose and nothing much to gain if there is action on the border. Chinese assets of any value are extremely distant from the border/LAC.
Same hold true vice-versa. If we effectively cut off their supply-lines, they are finished and we have huge buffer-zone between mainland India and mainland China. Rest will be balanced by mutually assured destruction.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
I am not advocating to initiate war but what is the point to keep the benefit with enemy to start the war on their will and yet they have nothing to loose.
This same problem we are having with papistan. Why they dared to start the wars so many times? Except 1971 - what is really they have lost? if we could liberate Bangladesh in 1971, what really stopped us from taking PoK back?
Even Nepal, Srilanka, Myanmar don't fears us despite being powerful enough. What encourages their mentality?
We need to be assertive about our security interests and be vocal for dire implications. Why should we allow those UNSC members to dictate terms to us when they are biggest culprits.
India needs to create its own clout where all non-white and non-muslim nations are united with India.
A place where India is not trying to boss others but creating a mutually respected and caring forum.
India can lead the world on real path away from selfish concepts and it is time we start the journey.
This same problem we are having with papistan. Why they dared to start the wars so many times? Except 1971 - what is really they have lost? if we could liberate Bangladesh in 1971, what really stopped us from taking PoK back?
Even Nepal, Srilanka, Myanmar don't fears us despite being powerful enough. What encourages their mentality?
We need to be assertive about our security interests and be vocal for dire implications. Why should we allow those UNSC members to dictate terms to us when they are biggest culprits.
India needs to create its own clout where all non-white and non-muslim nations are united with India.
A place where India is not trying to boss others but creating a mutually respected and caring forum.
India can lead the world on real path away from selfish concepts and it is time we start the journey.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
That is not what I meant. Once you say you don't go back to April 2020 positions, then you have declared you do not have any respect for the sanctity of whatever is defined as LAC with all those rules of engagement . India can exercise, a number of options both overt and covert to escalate the situation. It does not have to be all out war. We are much better off than last year to deal with this situation right.hemant_sai wrote:So we are ready for war just to achieve Apr 2020 positions. This is where I don't understand our policies and goals...williams wrote: Yep, we know it. And they know it. ... We are going to prove the Chins we are serious about LAC going back to Apr 2020 positions.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Here's where we are missing a trick. Offense is a good strategy to employ when you are outmatched in spending-power. I.e, instead of investing heavily in AD, BMD etc, invest in rockets, artillery & tactical BMs.Karan M wrote:We have a lot of fortified positions. Taking our territory will neither be easy or fast.
Aircraft taking off from alt have payload limitations. So they'd have to surge more and run up against our AD, SAMs.
Having said that, our limited defence against PLARF and our low aircraft numbers (which makes us more vulnerable to attrition) are definitely an issue.
The GOI has to open up purse strings and spend more on defense on a sustained basis now. There is no other go.
Of course, our defense expenditure as a % of GDP is a joke, but even with this, "offense" as a strategy will give us more bang for the buck and make the enemy recalibrate his plans
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Our most important card against China is IAF. The second is Artillery arm. Unfortunately both these arm have been heavily degraded. Either from politics, MoD nonsense or service's own issues.
Chinis cannot win as long as IAF is around. We know it, they know it. PLAAF will try everything under the sun to keep IAF busy and not come to IA's support.
PLA expects it's artillery & PGM units will provide the required tactical firepower to knock off IA forward positions.
This is why IAF numbers are so important against China. Even 100 extra LCA would have made such a difference. But alas
Chinis cannot win as long as IAF is around. We know it, they know it. PLAAF will try everything under the sun to keep IAF busy and not come to IA's support.
PLA expects it's artillery & PGM units will provide the required tactical firepower to knock off IA forward positions.
This is why IAF numbers are so important against China. Even 100 extra LCA would have made such a difference. But alas
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
I don't think that PRC will attack just yet.
The logistics are not in place for a bare knuckle fight against India.
Secondly, the moment PRC attacks India. Any and all pretence of quad being a non military setup goes out of the window.
Provided Biden is a not a PRC agent. The Americans will be placing USAF in Indian bases for a fight against the PRC. The US MIC needs that conflict.
The logistics are not in place for a bare knuckle fight against India.
Secondly, the moment PRC attacks India. Any and all pretence of quad being a non military setup goes out of the window.
Provided Biden is a not a PRC agent. The Americans will be placing USAF in Indian bases for a fight against the PRC. The US MIC needs that conflict.
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Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Not going to happen with the Dems in charge in Washington DC - you would need red blooded Republicans for the US to get involved militarily, what is more likely to happen is that the US would step up intel sharing, sabotage, and cyber disruption to support Indian boots, but don't expect more than a few "advisor"/special ops type folks from DC with Kamli aunty and Biden uncle.Pratyush wrote:I don't think that PRC will attack just yet.
The logistics are not in place for a bare knuckle fight against India.
Secondly, the moment PRC attacks India. Any and all pretence of quad being a non military setup goes out of the window.
Provided Biden is a not a PRC agent. The Americans will be placing USAF in Indian bases for a fight against the PRC. The US MIC needs that conflict.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 66244?s=20 ----> The next 40 days are crucial in my view. That is the campaign window for ChiCom along the LAC in Arunachal Pradesh. The possibility of ChiCom attempting a significant salami slice before winter sets in is there. As always, our boys will do well.
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
10 Para SF killed all 5 terrorists involved in ambush of troops on LoC last night. Desert Rats operating on LoC........
Re: India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020 - Part 2
Great job by Para SF! However this type of infiltration will only increase.
When action starts on the Afg-Tajik border, India should do a 2xbalakot to give PA a jhaapad from both sides.
When action starts on the Afg-Tajik border, India should do a 2xbalakot to give PA a jhaapad from both sides.