Indeed , BRFs OSINT is a notch higher because of members like him., encyclopedic knowledge and savvy analysis!, also haven't seen him in any emotional barrages with anyone , he is quite the professional guy you can depend on for hard-to-get details ( or if you are lazy !)Jay wrote:Amen!YashG wrote:
Word for word, your replies are the most knowledge dense posts ! I always give them two reads.
I have thought for a while that Brar ji is either a AI program with all encompassing knowledge or an CIA savant
Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 57024?s=20 ---> Goa Shipyard has placed a maiden order on BHEL for supply of an upgraded Super Rapid Gun Mount, the main gun onboard most warships of the Indian Navy.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
An off topic ? Maybe not
An ancient maritime superpower should remind itself of what it was
https://www.artofliving.org/in-en/cultu ... onal-giant
Alexander commissioned an entire flotilla in India:
Greek accounts say that Alexander commissioned the building of an entire flotilla (1,800 ships) in India to carry back his retreating armies to Macedonia via the Gulf of Persia. Yes, Indians built ships for people from other lands.
They came to learn shipbuilding:
Indian shipbuilding technologies were studied and acquired by the famed Chinese Admiral Zheng He, who sent his famous chronicler and interpreter Ma Huan, to Bengal’s shipbuilding yards, during the Ming dynasty in the early 15th century (1400-1410 CE).
Offered models to Europeans:
F. Baltazar Salvyus, a Frenchman from 1811 CE noted: “In ancient times, the Indians excelled in the art of constructing vessels… can still offer models to Europe, so much so that the English, attentive to everything which relates to naval architecture, have borrowed many improvements from them which they have adopted with success to their own shipping.”
India was a navigational giant who reigned over the oceans of the world for millennia. For a stretch of 400 crucial years in world economics and history, (during the Renaissance period in Europe), West Asian civilizations and Europe looked up to India as a navigational giant.
Bharath Gyan, a passionate research initiative, is painstakingly dotting the pieces together, foraging amongst lost remnants to keep the glorious past alive and known. Here are some lesser-known facts:
A boost to trade
India had a 25 percent share in world trade before the British Rule. One of the secrets to India’s prosperity and resilience over the last few millennia was attributed to navigational and architectural skills to build the long distance, seaworthy ships and ports and harbors for trade around the globe.
With an 8,500 km-long coastline, and warm water throughout the year, India had maritime activity for thousands of years. From medieval times 5,000 years ago, India had well-developed ports and an extensive navigational system.
India had dominated the waters of the world and global trade scenario for millennia with her well-crafted ships, the huge volume of trade and with “naav (boat) the word for sea travel.
From Baluch and Sind in the West to East Bengal, India’s naval activity spanned at the very minimum from the east coast of Africa to South East Asian islands and beyond, even to the west coast of the Americas.
Vasco da Gama, the Portuguese explorer, sailed in the largest ships of his times, the 28-meter-long Sao Gabriel.
Vasco da Gama reached India sailing around Africa in 1497 and is credited with having found the sea route to India. He travelled down the Atlantic Ocean from Cape Verde to the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa.
He wrote in his logbook diary, which is now in the Lisbon Maritime Museum that when he came to South Africa, he saw Indian ships ten times the size of his own ship.
Robert Heine Geldern and Gordon F. Ekholm, anthropologists studying the civilizations of ancient Americas, state:
“Ships of size that carried Fahien from India to China (through stormy China water) were certainly capable of proceeding all the way to Mexico and Peru by crossing the Pacific.
One thousand years before the birth of Columbus, Indian ships were far superior to any made in Europe up to the 18th century.”
In 1775, Abraham Parsons, a Mariner and Merchant who had commanded many merchant vessels, reached the coast of Malabar. Parsons, a traveller, documented:
* “India excelled in dry dock construction. The dry dock in Bombay has no comparison in the whole of Europe with regard to the size or excellence.”
* “Ships built at Bombay were executed 1/4th cheaper than in the docks of England.”
Close to 400 ships were built in the Bombay shipyards alone.
These well designed, stone cut harbors of India were copied by the Phoenicians, acknowledged as the pioneer seafarers of the world by Europe.
Not only for trade, India’s naval force helped guard Indian waters from foreign invaders. The Marathas created a formidable navy under the able leadership of Kanhoji Angre, and helped guard the Konkan coast for nearly a century and kept the colonial powers at bay. The colonial powers could only function as minor trading posts in the Konkan coast.
Thus, while the ancient West Asian civilizations went under, one by one, the Indian civilization continued and its prowess in navigation also continued until the 1700s, establishing it as a naval giant for many millennia.
An ancient maritime superpower should remind itself of what it was
https://www.artofliving.org/in-en/cultu ... onal-giant
Alexander commissioned an entire flotilla in India:
Greek accounts say that Alexander commissioned the building of an entire flotilla (1,800 ships) in India to carry back his retreating armies to Macedonia via the Gulf of Persia. Yes, Indians built ships for people from other lands.
They came to learn shipbuilding:
Indian shipbuilding technologies were studied and acquired by the famed Chinese Admiral Zheng He, who sent his famous chronicler and interpreter Ma Huan, to Bengal’s shipbuilding yards, during the Ming dynasty in the early 15th century (1400-1410 CE).
Offered models to Europeans:
F. Baltazar Salvyus, a Frenchman from 1811 CE noted: “In ancient times, the Indians excelled in the art of constructing vessels… can still offer models to Europe, so much so that the English, attentive to everything which relates to naval architecture, have borrowed many improvements from them which they have adopted with success to their own shipping.”
India was a navigational giant who reigned over the oceans of the world for millennia. For a stretch of 400 crucial years in world economics and history, (during the Renaissance period in Europe), West Asian civilizations and Europe looked up to India as a navigational giant.
Bharath Gyan, a passionate research initiative, is painstakingly dotting the pieces together, foraging amongst lost remnants to keep the glorious past alive and known. Here are some lesser-known facts:
A boost to trade
India had a 25 percent share in world trade before the British Rule. One of the secrets to India’s prosperity and resilience over the last few millennia was attributed to navigational and architectural skills to build the long distance, seaworthy ships and ports and harbors for trade around the globe.
With an 8,500 km-long coastline, and warm water throughout the year, India had maritime activity for thousands of years. From medieval times 5,000 years ago, India had well-developed ports and an extensive navigational system.
India had dominated the waters of the world and global trade scenario for millennia with her well-crafted ships, the huge volume of trade and with “naav (boat) the word for sea travel.
From Baluch and Sind in the West to East Bengal, India’s naval activity spanned at the very minimum from the east coast of Africa to South East Asian islands and beyond, even to the west coast of the Americas.
Vasco da Gama, the Portuguese explorer, sailed in the largest ships of his times, the 28-meter-long Sao Gabriel.
Vasco da Gama reached India sailing around Africa in 1497 and is credited with having found the sea route to India. He travelled down the Atlantic Ocean from Cape Verde to the Cape of Good Hope in South Africa.
He wrote in his logbook diary, which is now in the Lisbon Maritime Museum that when he came to South Africa, he saw Indian ships ten times the size of his own ship.
Robert Heine Geldern and Gordon F. Ekholm, anthropologists studying the civilizations of ancient Americas, state:
“Ships of size that carried Fahien from India to China (through stormy China water) were certainly capable of proceeding all the way to Mexico and Peru by crossing the Pacific.
One thousand years before the birth of Columbus, Indian ships were far superior to any made in Europe up to the 18th century.”
In 1775, Abraham Parsons, a Mariner and Merchant who had commanded many merchant vessels, reached the coast of Malabar. Parsons, a traveller, documented:
* “India excelled in dry dock construction. The dry dock in Bombay has no comparison in the whole of Europe with regard to the size or excellence.”
* “Ships built at Bombay were executed 1/4th cheaper than in the docks of England.”
Close to 400 ships were built in the Bombay shipyards alone.
These well designed, stone cut harbors of India were copied by the Phoenicians, acknowledged as the pioneer seafarers of the world by Europe.
Not only for trade, India’s naval force helped guard Indian waters from foreign invaders. The Marathas created a formidable navy under the able leadership of Kanhoji Angre, and helped guard the Konkan coast for nearly a century and kept the colonial powers at bay. The colonial powers could only function as minor trading posts in the Konkan coast.
Thus, while the ancient West Asian civilizations went under, one by one, the Indian civilization continued and its prowess in navigation also continued until the 1700s, establishing it as a naval giant for many millennia.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 25728?s=20 ---> AUV-150 can be deployed for seabed mapping, coastal surveillance, mine counter measure and oceanographic measurements during adverse weather conditions. It can perform various jobs related to underwater inspection with camera, surveying, etc.
https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 84002?s=20 ---> Modular streamline structure helps to integrate additional payloads with very less efforts with reasonably lesser drag without changing the original configuration.
https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 84002?s=20 ---> Modular streamline structure helps to integrate additional payloads with very less efforts with reasonably lesser drag without changing the original configuration.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 05504?s=20 ---> Goa Shipyard Ltd has placed a maiden order on Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL) for the supply of an upgraded Super Rapid Gun Mount (SRGM), the Main gun on-board most warships of the Indian Navy...Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/DesiEscobar07/statu ... 57024?s=20 ---> Goa Shipyard has placed a maiden order on BHEL for supply of an upgraded Super Rapid Gun Mount, the main gun onboard most warships of the Indian Navy.
https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 71108?s=20 ---> The order envisages supply, installation and commissioning of the entire system – Upgraded SRGM and accessories for Triput Class Frigates of the Indian Navy. The upgraded SRGM has the capability to fire advanced Ammunition with higher range and programmable ammunition.
https://twitter.com/AbhiMazaAyega/statu ... 16224?s=20 ---> Triput Class frigates?
https://twitter.com/ThingsNavy/status/1 ... 26720?s=20 ---> Upgraded Talwar Class.
India’s BHEL To Supply Upgraded Main Guns For Indian Navy Frigates
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -frigates/
29 Sept 2021
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Some high level USN visits soon after CDS visit to the Pentagon:
https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 93/photo/1 ---> Admiral Michael Gilday, US Navy CNO on official visit to India 11-15 October 2021. Interactions with CNS, Indian Navy & senior GoI officials at New Delhi & Commander-in-Chiefs Western Naval Command at Mumbai & Eastern Naval Command at Vizag scheduled.
https://twitter.com/indiannavy/status/1 ... 93/photo/1 ---> Admiral Michael Gilday, US Navy CNO on official visit to India 11-15 October 2021. Interactions with CNS, Indian Navy & senior GoI officials at New Delhi & Commander-in-Chiefs Western Naval Command at Mumbai & Eastern Naval Command at Vizag scheduled.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
There is some news in paki news papers about IN Submarine coming near their shores. Seems some sensationlisation drive to deflect coverage of ISI chief appointment issue going on between Uniformed Jihadis and Political Jihadis.
(harami link below).
https://www.dawn.com/news/1652952/navy- ... aters-ispr
(harami link below).
https://www.dawn.com/news/1652952/navy- ... aters-ispr
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Old video that the PN resurfaced. Has been completely debunked.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Click on the link below for video....
https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/1 ... 87431?s=20 ---> "No submarine commanding officer will ever, under any circumstances, be at periscope depth during the day close to an adversary's waters"
https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/1 ... 87431?s=20 ---> "No submarine commanding officer will ever, under any circumstances, be at periscope depth during the day close to an adversary's waters"
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Pakis on the deaf and dumb forums are jerking each other on this news. This supposed "incident" happened before this sub even crossed into their EEZ. Besides, there is no proof that this was an Indian sub. Why would a sub even run at periscope depth if it wanted to evade being identified?
Pakis are lucky that their surveillance craft wasn't blown out of the sky with the sub's defensive systems (a sea-to-air missile).
Pakis are being fed the same chooran.
Pakis are lucky that their surveillance craft wasn't blown out of the sky with the sub's defensive systems (a sea-to-air missile).
Pakis are being fed the same chooran.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
In a few months one of their MPs in Paki parliament will reveal that they almost sunk one of their own subs and accuse raa for it
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- BRFite
- Posts: 488
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Isnt it normal for Diesel sub's to snorkel ?? So if a diesel sub is snorkelling in international waters - and sowneone happens to click it - does it mean that sub commander has surrendered ?? These Pakis are everyday breaking their own record of being the biggest Chu's around. Seems like madrasa education has destroyed even basic IQ.
Last edited by Larry Walker on 19 Oct 2021 22:35, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
It is normal for diesel subs to snorkel.
It is NOT normal for diesel subs to snorkel in enemy waters.
No CO of a submarine would do something that dumb.
However, this particular submarine was outsize Pakistan's EEZ.
It is NOT normal for diesel subs to snorkel in enemy waters.
No CO of a submarine would do something that dumb.
However, this particular submarine was outsize Pakistan's EEZ.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
EEZ is only 200 km!
https://twitter.com/in20im/status/14504 ... 01319?s=20 ---->
Location of the alleged Indian Submarine.
22°16'54"N 66°30'34"E (as per the geolocation from the video).
It is 300+ km away from Karachi, 230+ km from international border and 250+ km from Dwarka, Gujarat.
https://twitter.com/in20im/status/14504 ... 01319?s=20 ---->
Location of the alleged Indian Submarine.
22°16'54"N 66°30'34"E (as per the geolocation from the video).
It is 300+ km away from Karachi, 230+ km from international border and 250+ km from Dwarka, Gujarat.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Time stamp says 10/16/21 23:30:25, which is close to midnight.
Can a snorkeling sub be seen in the visible spectrum in the dead of night?
Assuming she was spotted in moonlight (Moon was gibbous waxing on that night) with an ultrasensitive camera, one needs to only check moon's azimuth at that location at that time to verify this claim.
In case they say its an infrared capture, does a snorkeling sub show up like that in IR spectrum? Does Pak have such detection capability?
How can they determine its an Indian sub with that image?
Lastly they could claim the clock was set incorrectly which means their claim is bunkum.
Can a snorkeling sub be seen in the visible spectrum in the dead of night?
Assuming she was spotted in moonlight (Moon was gibbous waxing on that night) with an ultrasensitive camera, one needs to only check moon's azimuth at that location at that time to verify this claim.
In case they say its an infrared capture, does a snorkeling sub show up like that in IR spectrum? Does Pak have such detection capability?
How can they determine its an Indian sub with that image?
Lastly they could claim the clock was set incorrectly which means their claim is bunkum.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
I just noted IR on the image, top center. Its envisageable that a sub comes up at night to snorkeling depth in international waters ? The question still remains.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Could be Pakis are panicking that this time IN might mete out punishment for what happened in Poonch.
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- BRF Oldie
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Surgical Strikes 1.0 was done by land
SS 2.0 by air
Paki-Navy is browning its shalwars that SS 3.0 will come via the sea
SS 2.0 by air
Paki-Navy is browning its shalwars that SS 3.0 will come via the sea
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
EEZ is 200 NM (nautical miles) or 230 land miles or 370 KM. The coordinates for the "submarine" indicate that the sub was about 110 NM away from the paki coast. So in effect, it was almost halfway into the paki EEZ before being "spotted" leaving a tell-tale trail of bread crumbs!!.Rakesh wrote:EEZ is only 200 km!
As many have pointed out - no sane sub captain would cruise at periscope depth half way into "enemy waters". Secondly, is it an Indian submarine? Thirdly, the last time a sub was noticed by paki recce plains in paki EEZ was back in March 2019. So, it seems the pakis never cottoned onto "sub activities" from then to October 2021?
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
The EEZ is international waters for all intents and purposes. What it is is clearly mentioned in the discription of the EEZ itself.
Indian Navy submarine if sailing in TSP EEZ is not entering TSP maritime boundary.
If she was detected, then it just makes a stronger case for AIP submarines. Both nuke and conventional.
Indian Navy submarine if sailing in TSP EEZ is not entering TSP maritime boundary.
If she was detected, then it just makes a stronger case for AIP submarines. Both nuke and conventional.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
We are not going to know anything more about the entity(submarine) in our life time.
1) May be, Its not ours and we should not do the mistake of revealing that.
2) PN must have got some signature of that individual sub but they want to confirm. This could be some ploy to get the same information from our own media who might do some stupidity to either prove yes or no.
3) May be some breaking news kind of staged drama to deflect current mess with regard to Petrol Price, IMF loan or ISI chief appointment.
4) May be it is their own submarine returning from some secret patrol and got picked out randomly by their own reconnaissance flight.
5) May be Chinese Submarine visiting their friendly port of Karachi and got picked out by PN reconnaissance flight. Submarine friendly visits will only be let known to specific persons on the need to know basis.
6) May be it is OUR submarine, stalking the harbor for one of their mission. The mission could well be let know the PN that they are being stalked and in constant look out.
7) May be the entire thing itself is just an imagination from some uniformed water jihadi to make out something using some old videos. May be more budget.
8 ) Could well be some Iranian submarine doing some long distance test patrol. (Iran has good inventory of small local submarines)
1) May be, Its not ours and we should not do the mistake of revealing that.
2) PN must have got some signature of that individual sub but they want to confirm. This could be some ploy to get the same information from our own media who might do some stupidity to either prove yes or no.
3) May be some breaking news kind of staged drama to deflect current mess with regard to Petrol Price, IMF loan or ISI chief appointment.
4) May be it is their own submarine returning from some secret patrol and got picked out randomly by their own reconnaissance flight.
5) May be Chinese Submarine visiting their friendly port of Karachi and got picked out by PN reconnaissance flight. Submarine friendly visits will only be let known to specific persons on the need to know basis.
6) May be it is OUR submarine, stalking the harbor for one of their mission. The mission could well be let know the PN that they are being stalked and in constant look out.
7) May be the entire thing itself is just an imagination from some uniformed water jihadi to make out something using some old videos. May be more budget.
8 ) Could well be some Iranian submarine doing some long distance test patrol. (Iran has good inventory of small local submarines)
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Every 2 years Pakistan will photograph the conning tower of an Agosta 90B with P-3C and claim they dtected an Indian sub to keep the Aam Abdul happy, it has happenned in Nov-16, Mar-19 and Now Oct-21.Pratyush wrote:The EEZ is international waters for all intents and purposes. What it is is clearly mentioned in the discription of the EEZ itself.
Indian Navy submarine if sailing in TSP EEZ is not entering TSP maritime boundary.
If she was detected, then it just makes a stronger case for AIP submarines. Both nuke and conventional.
Since not enough of the Sub will be shown, the Paki abdul inside and outside Pakistan will Mentally M*********** how they have defeated the Indian Navy.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
P8i in Seychelles
https://twitter.com/hci_seychelles/stat ... 6582315015
Good to note !
-----
BTW Adm Arun Prakash responding on the sub kerfluffle
https://twitter.com/arunp2810/status/14 ... 7823554562
@Cyrano - Pak has P3C ASW, which is the standard ASW aircraft (before the introduction of P8) in USA, and still used.
EEZ is international waters. India holds however that it can ask for military warships to inform / ask permission in its EEZ; justifying this as saying maneuvers and exercises are forbidden. (which they are, but others hold that transit etc is permitted). I doubt that India asked/asks permission of Pakistan for Pakistan's EEZ !
https://twitter.com/hci_seychelles/stat ... 6582315015
Good to note !
-----
BTW Adm Arun Prakash responding on the sub kerfluffle
https://twitter.com/arunp2810/status/14 ... 7823554562
Also AIP doesn't mean unlimited endurance underwater to search in Pak's EEZ for a Pakistani submarine (which is different from just transit or to attack Pak port or sneak up and spy). DRDO AIP in endurance mode would be 14days, in max power, 2 days [as envisaged]. Search to locate a Pak sub would be intermediate. And batteries need charging. Extended endurance might require a SSN.A submarine with its schnorkel up & periscope showing is declaring its presence. It can be picked up by radar or even visually, from miles; no great “vigilance” or “professionalism” reqd here
@Cyrano - Pak has P3C ASW, which is the standard ASW aircraft (before the introduction of P8) in USA, and still used.
EEZ is international waters. India holds however that it can ask for military warships to inform / ask permission in its EEZ; justifying this as saying maneuvers and exercises are forbidden. (which they are, but others hold that transit etc is permitted). I doubt that India asked/asks permission of Pakistan for Pakistan's EEZ !
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Indian Navy has responded by stating that the supposed sub was 140 NM from paki shore. Indian sub or not, for the pakis to claim that their surveillance aircraft "prevented" this sub from entering "paki waters" is not only dishonest but also disingenuous and misleading.
Why?
If the pakis are claiming that the 200 NM are "their waters", that's a misrepresentation. They have a right to tap into its EEZ's economic wealth but passage of ships and aircraft is permitted under the Law of the Sea. The "sub" was observed with its conning tower above water level, it was merely transitting. That too 110 NM by my reckoning (per Indian Navy, 140 NM) from the paki shores. Therefore, the sub was already well within its EEZ. No prizes there for the paki "readiness".
The headlines in haram ka akhbaar, the Daily Noose, states - Pakistan Navy prevents Indian submarine from entering its waters.
Well, Einsteins, the sub was already in your EEZ but 100 NM away from the territorial waters (TA - 12 NM). It's equal to putting on a condom after unprotected sex.
Good job, pakidiots, you just proved to the sane world that you are not only class A delirious morons, but your leaderships' understanding of the law of the sea is no better than a five-year-old's grasp of her personal space. Now when the paki awam is done jerking each other off and their TV hosts are done backslapping each other till their hinds become sore, take a moment to reflect how the rest of the sane world will view this idiocy. I hope there are one or two relatively saner journalists who will pause to reflect on what really happened.
No wonder these inbreds are never taken seriously in the wider world of international realpolitik and diplomacy.
Why?
If the pakis are claiming that the 200 NM are "their waters", that's a misrepresentation. They have a right to tap into its EEZ's economic wealth but passage of ships and aircraft is permitted under the Law of the Sea. The "sub" was observed with its conning tower above water level, it was merely transitting. That too 110 NM by my reckoning (per Indian Navy, 140 NM) from the paki shores. Therefore, the sub was already well within its EEZ. No prizes there for the paki "readiness".
The headlines in haram ka akhbaar, the Daily Noose, states - Pakistan Navy prevents Indian submarine from entering its waters.
Well, Einsteins, the sub was already in your EEZ but 100 NM away from the territorial waters (TA - 12 NM). It's equal to putting on a condom after unprotected sex.
Good job, pakidiots, you just proved to the sane world that you are not only class A delirious morons, but your leaderships' understanding of the law of the sea is no better than a five-year-old's grasp of her personal space. Now when the paki awam is done jerking each other off and their TV hosts are done backslapping each other till their hinds become sore, take a moment to reflect how the rest of the sane world will view this idiocy. I hope there are one or two relatively saner journalists who will pause to reflect on what really happened.
No wonder these inbreds are never taken seriously in the wider world of international realpolitik and diplomacy.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Great post anupmisra and you are correct...the EEZ is 200 NM and not 200 km as I had stated. Thank you for pointing out my error.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Excellent post anupammisra! The sub probably declared victory and raised its conning tower to show its accomplishment of beating Pakistani Navy!
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Lal "mard-e-momeen" Topi's preferred course of action:
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Lal Topi is such a moron! This is the level of intellectual thought in Pakistan. My goodness.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Without an AIP (air independent propulsion), a diesel sub has to regularly partly surface and "inhale". Since it was in international waters and transitting, it was deemed normal and safe by the captain to do so. For the pakis to claim that their Orion "forced" the sub to surface (not true- only snorkel and ) and retreat is just plain intellectual dishonesty.Vivek K wrote:Excellent post anupammisra! The sub probably declared victory and raised its conning tower to show its accomplishment of beating Pakistani Navy!
The pakis also know that a fully armed sub, if it had warlike intentions, would have blasted the Orion out of the sky if it felt it was in any kind of danger in international waters. Another Atlantique situation. Pakis should thank their stars that this did not happen. Instead, they chose to prematurely "celebrate" the supposed humiliation of the Yindoo navy.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
The Paki video is fake, heavy edited, has morphing and has clips shown by them in 2016 and 19, Diesel subs in the Indian Navy can go 14 days without surfacing, no Indian Sub will conveniently surface and snorkel 50km off the Pak coast.anupmisra wrote:Without an AIP (air independent propulsion), a diesel sub has to regularly partly surface and "inhale". Since it was in international waters and transitting, it was deemed normal and safe by the captain to do so. For the pakis to claim that their Orion "forced" the sub to surface (not true- only snorkel and ) and retreat is just plain intellectual dishonesty.Vivek K wrote:Excellent post anupammisra! The sub probably declared victory and raised its conning tower to show its accomplishment of beating Pakistani Navy!
The pakis also know that a fully armed sub, if it had warlike intentions, would have blasted the Orion out of the sky if it felt it was in any kind of danger in international waters. Another Atlantique situation. Pakis should thank their stars that this did not happen. Instead, they chose to prematurely "celebrate" the supposed humiliation of the Yindoo navy.
They are just putting out propaganda after photographing one of thier subs
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Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
This is not game of tag or peek-a-boo - how will you force a sub to surface ? the only sureshot way is to explode mines around it or fire a active homing torpedo and abort at the last moment. Even PLAN will not do that to IN ships let alone PN. Also atleast from hollywood movies that I have seen - a sub near to the surface can detect rotor-blade or prop-blade noise if they are above in the vicinity.
Also it is statiscally very low probablity for the P3 to be at that exact spot had it not been searching for a sub already post some 'kaand'.
And if a sub commander knows he is being hunted then he will never surface unless the enemy is actively threatening his ship by dropping mines.
So either this is a elaborate hoax or something really fishy went down on Paki coast and this charade by PN is to boost morale of its clan.
Most probably once the IN sub was safe in International waters - the commander decided to show the pursuer a middle finger by surfacing.
Also it is statiscally very low probablity for the P3 to be at that exact spot had it not been searching for a sub already post some 'kaand'.
And if a sub commander knows he is being hunted then he will never surface unless the enemy is actively threatening his ship by dropping mines.
So either this is a elaborate hoax or something really fishy went down on Paki coast and this charade by PN is to boost morale of its clan.
Most probably once the IN sub was safe in International waters - the commander decided to show the pursuer a middle finger by surfacing.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Yes, EEZ is High Seas. However, UNCLOS allowed each ratifying member to record their statements and we have said, "Prior consent required for military exercises or maneuvers, in particular those involving the use of weapons or explosives, in the exclusive economic zone.” [Exact words]. However, even this is not binding unless it is harmonious with the UNCLOS laws. Innocent passage is not a problem in Indian EEZ even for warships and even with the above clause.Barath wrote:EEZ is international waters. India holds however that it can ask for military warships to inform / ask permission in its EEZ; justifying this as saying maneuvers and exercises are forbidden. (which they are, but others hold that transit etc is permitted). I doubt that India asked/asks permission of Pakistan for Pakistan's EEZ !
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
more likely that radar may have caught the snorkel, from a paki MR Orion, maybe and then photographed. Often such images will have a date, time, and location automatically imprintedCyrano wrote:Time stamp says 10/16/21 23:30:25, which is close to midnight.
Can a snorkeling sub be seen in the visible spectrum in the dead of night?
Assuming she was spotted in moonlight (Moon was gibbous waxing on that night) with an ultrasensitive camera, one needs to only check moon's azimuth at that location at that time to verify this claim.
In case they say its an infrared capture, does a snorkeling sub show up like that in IR spectrum? Does Pak have such detection capability?
How can they determine its an Indian sub with that image?
Lastly they could claim the clock was set incorrectly which means their claim is bunkum.
However, from the images, it appears that a great deal more than just the snorkel is out of the water
A sub on the surface is certainly not hiding from anyone
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
The Indian Navy has given a statement that this is a mismash of old footage which is edited with 7 cuts and 3 inversions for a clip which runs for 30 seconds
Open source resources and independent experts who view this clip can easily see how doctored it is.
A desperate attempt by the Porkis to show that Pakistani Navy is relevant and has come out of the trauma of Karachi Port/city strikes by Indian Navy in 1971.
Open source resources and independent experts who view this clip can easily see how doctored it is.
A desperate attempt by the Porkis to show that Pakistani Navy is relevant and has come out of the trauma of Karachi Port/city strikes by Indian Navy in 1971.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
This looks like a classic TI image. You can set the temperature vs color. HI Sutton who tracks naval stuff closely also believes it's an Indian sub. But the whole video seems to be a multi edit mess.Cyrano wrote:Time stamp says 10/16/21 23:30:25, which is close to midnight.
In case they say its an infrared capture, does a snorkeling sub show up like that in IR spectrum? Does Pak have such detection capability?
How can they determine its an Indian sub with that image?
Lastly they could claim the clock was set incorrectly which means their claim is bunkum.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Karan M wrote:This looks like a classic TI image. You can set the temperature vs color. HI Sutton who tracks naval stuff closely also believes it's an Indian sub. But the whole video seems to be a multi edit mess.Cyrano wrote:Time stamp says 10/16/21 23:30:25, which is close to midnight.
In case they say its an infrared capture, does a snorkeling sub show up like that in IR spectrum? Does Pak have such detection capability?
How can they determine its an Indian sub with that image?
Lastly they could claim the clock was set incorrectly which means their claim is bunkum.
this is from the paki yawn
how is it even clear that it is an Indian sub
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
The image is consistent with what is visible of the submarine when it is sonorkeling. That is not really an issue. Even her being in the TSP EEZ is not an issue.
During peace time the submarine is quite safe from any attacks from any source. As attacking a peacefully transiting ship is an act of war.
So it ultimately is a non story designed to make Pakistan feel better about itself.
During peace time the submarine is quite safe from any attacks from any source. As attacking a peacefully transiting ship is an act of war.
So it ultimately is a non story designed to make Pakistan feel better about itself.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... oes-328177
Defence ministry clears Rs 423-crore deal for US torpedoes
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Defence ministry clears Rs 423-crore deal for US torpedoes
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In April, the US Department of State had approved this Foreign Military Sale to India at an estimated cost of $63 million. The principal contractor for the first deal is Raytheon Integrated Defense System.
The Navy will further augment its capabilities with another deal in the pipeline. This entails the acquisition of 10 AGM-84L Harpoon Block II air-launched missiles and related equipment at an estimated cost of $92 million. Boeing is the principal contractor for the equipment in the Harpoon deal.
India plans to use the equipment requested in both deals on the Indian Navy’s Boeing P-8I maritime aircraft. The MK 54 lightweight torpedoes are used by US surface ships, fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters and are their primary anti-submarine warfare weapon.
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Why did the navy not ask for integration of domestic light weight torpedo with P8 and the Romeo.
If something like this continues, then what is the assurance that the upcoming Indian light weight anti ship missiles will be integrated with the P8 or the Romeo?
If something like this continues, then what is the assurance that the upcoming Indian light weight anti ship missiles will be integrated with the P8 or the Romeo?
Re: Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021
Cause we may not have a choice, ever since the Nuclear deal we have had to make some big ticket US purchases and have slowly got into MTCR etc. There is clearly a quid pro quo and everything in this world is not above board.Pratyush wrote:Why did the navy not ask for integration of domestic light weight torpedo with P8 and the Romeo.
If something like this continues, then what is the assurance that the upcoming Indian light weight anti ship missiles will be integrated with the P8 or the Romeo?