Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
What if Xi Jinping just isn't that competent?
https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/what- ... -isnt-that?
But other than turning a bureaucratic oligarchy into a personalistic dictatorship, what are Xi’s accomplishments, exactly? In my experience, people tend to assume that Xi is hyper-competent because:
There’s a general impression that the Chinese government is hyper-competent, and Xi has made himself synonymous with the Chinese government, and
Under Xi’s watch, China has arguably become the world’s most powerful country.
But this doesn’t mean Xi actually deserves his reputation as a one-man engine of Chinese greatness. Much of his apparent success was actually inherited from his predecessors. He has taken absolute control of the apparatus built by people such as Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin, and Hu Jintao, but I think it’s hard to argue that he has added much to that apparatus.
In fact, I think there are multiple signs that Xi has actually weakened the capabilities of the Chinese juggernaut. So far, China’s power and general effectiveness are so great that these signs seem to have gone largely unnoticed, but I think they’re there. The three big ones are: Slowing growth, an international backlash against China, and missteps related to the Covid pandemic.
It’s time to consider the possibility that for all his self-aggrandizement, Xi Jinping is just not that competent of a leader.
https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/what- ... -isnt-that?
But other than turning a bureaucratic oligarchy into a personalistic dictatorship, what are Xi’s accomplishments, exactly? In my experience, people tend to assume that Xi is hyper-competent because:
There’s a general impression that the Chinese government is hyper-competent, and Xi has made himself synonymous with the Chinese government, and
Under Xi’s watch, China has arguably become the world’s most powerful country.
But this doesn’t mean Xi actually deserves his reputation as a one-man engine of Chinese greatness. Much of his apparent success was actually inherited from his predecessors. He has taken absolute control of the apparatus built by people such as Deng Xiaoping, Jiang Zemin, and Hu Jintao, but I think it’s hard to argue that he has added much to that apparatus.
In fact, I think there are multiple signs that Xi has actually weakened the capabilities of the Chinese juggernaut. So far, China’s power and general effectiveness are so great that these signs seem to have gone largely unnoticed, but I think they’re there. The three big ones are: Slowing growth, an international backlash against China, and missteps related to the Covid pandemic.
It’s time to consider the possibility that for all his self-aggrandizement, Xi Jinping is just not that competent of a leader.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Nice comments but quite superficial.
For Xi is the emperor now and the others were emperors before him.
He just consolidated the authoritarian leadership from the totalitarian version before.
In that manner, he is a transition figure.
Despot->Totalitarian-> Authoritarian
Mao->Three globalists->XJP
If so, the three charges against him, were globalists pin pricks to him.
For Xi is the emperor now and the others were emperors before him.
He just consolidated the authoritarian leadership from the totalitarian version before.
In that manner, he is a transition figure.
Despot->Totalitarian-> Authoritarian
Mao->Three globalists->XJP
If so, the three charges against him, were globalists pin pricks to him.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Gravitas: Why is China not talking about the mysterious blasts?
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Finally, the bubble has burst in China
Ch!na's Evergrande has officially defaulted
The domino effect will kill Ch!na ambitions especially BRI and CPEC
The house of cards is collapsing..........
DMSA is preparing bankruptcy proceedings against Evergrande Group.
Along with this many small nations which received billions of dollar$ in loans from Ch!na defaulting.
Evergrande officially defaulted - DMSA is preparing bankruptcy proceedings against Evergrande Group
Ch!na's Evergrande has officially defaulted
The domino effect will kill Ch!na ambitions especially BRI and CPEC
The house of cards is collapsing..........
DMSA is preparing bankruptcy proceedings against Evergrande Group.
Along with this many small nations which received billions of dollar$ in loans from Ch!na defaulting.
Evergrande officially defaulted - DMSA is preparing bankruptcy proceedings against Evergrande Group
Evergrande officially defaulted - DMSA is preparing bankruptcy proceedings against Evergrande Group
November 10, 2021
BERLIN, Nov. 10, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- China Evergrande Group today again defaulted on interest payments to international investors. DMSA itself is invested in these bonds and has not received any interest payments until today’s end of the grace period. Now DMSA is preparing bankruptcy proceedings against Evergrande and calls on all bond investors to join it.
China Evergrande Group, the second largest real estate developer in China, defaulted on interest payments on two bonds back in September, with the 30-day grace period still ending in October. However, shortly before the end of the grace period, the public was misled by rumors about alleged interest payments. The international media also took the rumors for granted. Only the DMSA - Deutsche Marktscreening Agentur (German Market Screening Agency) already recognized the default at that time and proved in a study that the bankruptcy of Evergrande, the world’s most indebted corporation, could ultimately lead to a “Great Reset”, i.e. the final meltdown of the global financial system.
(Note to journalists: See DMSA press releases dated Oct. 25 and Oct. 29, 2021, and the DMSA study “The Great Reset - Evergrande and the Final Meltdown of the Global Financial System”; all available via the DMSA homepage http://www.dmsa-agentur.de.)
“But while the international financial market has so far met the financial turmoil surrounding the teetering giant Evergrande with a remarkable basic confidence - one can also say: with remarkable naivety - the U.S. central bank Fed confirmed our view yesterday,” says DMSA senior analyst Dr. Marco Metzler. “In its latest stability report, it explicitly pointed out the dangers that a collapse of Evergrande could have for the global financial system.”
In order to be able to file for bankruptcy against the company as a creditor, DMSA itself invested in Evergrande bonds, whose grace period expired today (Nov. 10, 2021). In total, Evergrande would have had to pay $148.13 million in interest on three bonds no later than today. “But so far we have not received any interest on our bonds,” explains Metzler. He adds, “With banks in Hong Kong closing today, it’s certain that these bonds have defaulted.”
(Note to editors: Exact details of the bonds that have defaulted so far can be found in the appendix to this press release.)
Particularly problematic for Evergrande: all 23 outstanding bonds have a cross-default clause. “This means that if a single one of these bonds defaults, all 23 outstanding bonds automatically have ‘default’ status” DMSA senior analyst Metzler knows. However, this does not automatically result in a bankruptcy for Evergrande Group. To determine bankruptcy, a insolvency petition must be filed with the court. This can be done either by the company itself or by one or more of the company’s creditors. And this is precisely what is now planned. Metzler: “DMSA is preparing bankruptcy proceedings against Evergrande. We are already holding talks with other investors in this regard. We would be pleased if other investors were to join our action group.”
For the DMSA expert, it is clear: “As soon as a court opens insolvency proceedings, Evergrande will also be officially bankrupt - and that is only a matter of days.”
Bond Name
Regular coupon
payment date
End of the
goodwill period
("grace period")
Total interest
payment
(in US$ million)
EVERRE 8.25% due 2022
2021.09.21
22.10.2021
83.53
EVERRE 9.5% due 2024
2021.09.29
28.10.2021
45.17
Total not paid
in October 2021
128.70
EVERRE 9.5% due 2022
2021.10.11
2021.11.10
68.88
EVERRE 10% due 2023
2021.10.11
2021.11.10
42.50
EVERRE 10.5% due 2024
2021.10.11
2021.11.10
32.75
Total not paid
in November 2021
148.13
Source: DMSA, own research
About DMSA Deutsche Markt Screening Agentur GmbH:
DMSA Deutsche Markt Screening Agentur GmbH, is an independent data service that collects and evaluates market-relevant information on companies, products and services. DMSA sees itself as an advocate for consumers, private customers and intelligent investors. The claim: to always look at companies and providers, products and services through the eyes of the customers. The customers are the focus of DMSA’s work. For them, important and decision-relevant information is bundled and presented as market screenings. The aim is to create more transparency for consumers when selecting products, investments and services.
Press release:
http://www.dmsa-agentur.de/download/202 ... _PM_en.pdf
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
There'll be more I'm sure. I think the Chinese government will step in to make the contractors whole, and probably make sure those who prepaid for housing are made whole as well. Equity holders might get something back. Offshore bond holders are pretty much SOL.SSridhar wrote:Another Evergrande in the making? - Economic Times
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
I was reading the other day that President Xi has not been seen outside of China for a long time.
How certain are we that Xi is still alive and healthy? Is it possible that he is deceased or otherwise incapacitated and what we are seeing now is a desperate attempt by a junta to retain control?
How certain are we that Xi is still alive and healthy? Is it possible that he is deceased or otherwise incapacitated and what we are seeing now is a desperate attempt by a junta to retain control?
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Oh god, its coming out. How long before the world realises the person in the middle of the magnificent 7 photo opp at the 19th CCP conference is in fact a body double put there by MAD ?
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
The Communist party is removing any western influence that may jeopardize their rise to be the sole Superpower. The removing of any money influence that westerners have over China is getting removed. In this correction, they will try to make as much as loss for the investors from outside China.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Not so simple regarding foreign bondholders. If they burn foreign bondholders, then the likes of Goldman, Blackrock and all the other wall street players who have been pumping up China for their own profits will go 180 degrees against them. That is a huge force, in fact it is the force that got China into WTO and still gives them access to the western markets. I doubt CCP would do anything which will amount to a full default.
But the Chinese being Chinese these guys won't default but will delay payments, not pay interest for the delayed duration, or ask for a ton of paperwork before they make the outsiders whole. They may tilt the playing field to a degree that only the big players will be able to fulfil the requirements to get paid back, and small fry investors will be fried.
But the Chinese being Chinese these guys won't default but will delay payments, not pay interest for the delayed duration, or ask for a ton of paperwork before they make the outsiders whole. They may tilt the playing field to a degree that only the big players will be able to fulfil the requirements to get paid back, and small fry investors will be fried.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
I have always viewed the value of debt in connection with the creditor's ability to recover it.
If the PRC allows for a default and then shuts it's doors to US capital. Xi might just be able to come out on top by doing that.
Given the wrangling regarding budget in the US along with high debt, coupled with the loss of capital in PRC. The ability of the US to raise cheap capital will be totally destroyed. US will be left holding the bag of the debt that it has accrued over the decades. Forcing it to face a difficult choice, either totally default on the debt that it has generated. Or face the situation the Weimar republic faced. But without being defeated in a was and the treaty of Versailles.
It will also effect the PRC. But Xi can sell it as the adverse effects of unbridled capitalism. Thereby, theoretically being able to contain the damage to the party and his own rule.
If the PRC allows for a default and then shuts it's doors to US capital. Xi might just be able to come out on top by doing that.
Given the wrangling regarding budget in the US along with high debt, coupled with the loss of capital in PRC. The ability of the US to raise cheap capital will be totally destroyed. US will be left holding the bag of the debt that it has accrued over the decades. Forcing it to face a difficult choice, either totally default on the debt that it has generated. Or face the situation the Weimar republic faced. But without being defeated in a was and the treaty of Versailles.
It will also effect the PRC. But Xi can sell it as the adverse effects of unbridled capitalism. Thereby, theoretically being able to contain the damage to the party and his own rule.
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
The biggest enemy of CCP is the CCP. Xi may seem to be all powerful but the Politburo is a delicately balanced construct with a majority of Xi detractors. You cannot beat or defang the Chinese as a nation. You can however change the way they look at the world and their willingness to rise as a peaceful power by brining in the right set of actors to the stage. China cannot be controlled it can only be contained.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Pratyush wrote:I have always viewed the value of debt in connection with the creditor's ability to recover it.
If the PRC allows for a default and then shuts it's doors to US capital. Xi might just be able to come out on top by doing that.
Given the wrangling regarding budget in the US along with high debt, coupled with the loss of capital in PRC. The ability of the US to raise cheap capital will be totally destroyed. US will be left holding the bag of the debt that it has accrued over the decades. Forcing it to face a difficult choice, either totally default on the debt that it has generated. Or face the situation the Weimar republic faced. But without being defeated in a was and the treaty of Versailles.
It will also effect the PRC. But Xi can sell it as the adverse effects of unbridled capitalism. Thereby, theoretically being able to contain the damage to the party and his own rule.
+1
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Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Interesting Read...
PRC strategy of Democracy Meltdown moves into high gear by Nalapat
PRC strategy of Democracy Meltdown moves into high gear by Nalapat
In the end,Those loyal to Xi Jinping Thought believe that before the deep state elements that they claim are all over the White House succeed in inflicting the demonic system of democracy on the PRC, it is an existential imperative that US and India must undergo a steady dilution of their comprehensive national power.
Worth reading the full piece!The CCP under Xi Jinping, and in particular the CMC now controlled by his chosen appointees, understands this and has sought to tailor policy accordingly. What is needed is for the “Age of Illusion” to end in major democracies. Some of these are already the target of the CMC’s “comprehensive war strategy”, while many of the others will be, should the initial targets succumb to the strategies being used against them. More and more policymakers in the major democracies have begun understanding the existential nature of the internal and external threat that they are facing. This will assist in enabling them to avoid mistakes that may act as a force-multiplier for the other side, and to design and carry out policies that would ensure they prevail in this 21st century version of the Cold War that is taking place between the world’s two superpowers and their respective allies and partners—two superpowers with mutually-incompatible systems of governance and outlook.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Thanks for posting this, one of the more convincing explanations of why Xitler & CCP are doing what they are doing that I've come across.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Moving from Russia thread:
Currently, China is treated as a closer ally than India as far as USA is concerned, going by continuing efforts by Biden to normalize relations with China. Some recent events that point in this are:
1) continuing coverup of the wuhan virus which seems to have been a joint effort of the US and China
2) Breaking up the QUAD and "repurposing it" to not raise chinese hackles
3) refusal of the Biden adminstration democrats to meet with Indian leaders and the
A detente with the US would give China a free hand to get more aggressive its near neighbours, and that is serves the US well too, since that is what Kissinger envisioned with his G2-sphere-of-prosperity with China.
Chetak saar, Agree and recent events support your intuition. Given the way Biden admin is behaving so far, they have not given up on a detente with China at the bilateral level, while giving China a free hand to mess with US's other non-ally competitors like India and enemy states like Russia, like how China uses Pakistan and North Korea as a lapdog.chetak: they are doing exactly what is needed to put down an increasingly desperate and unstable xi while concentrating on getting out of the covid induced global clusterf(uk.
he badly needs a victory somewhere, either internally or externally, to bolster his image and standing
Currently, China is treated as a closer ally than India as far as USA is concerned, going by continuing efforts by Biden to normalize relations with China. Some recent events that point in this are:
1) continuing coverup of the wuhan virus which seems to have been a joint effort of the US and China
2) Breaking up the QUAD and "repurposing it" to not raise chinese hackles
3) refusal of the Biden adminstration democrats to meet with Indian leaders and the
A detente with the US would give China a free hand to get more aggressive its near neighbours, and that is serves the US well too, since that is what Kissinger envisioned with his G2-sphere-of-prosperity with China.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
If that is the only measure, then what the world sees as Xi is 99% a body double. This is a country where body doubles are hired to do prison time, so posing as the head of state is a rather plum assignment. Rather neatly explains the "President for Life" bit as well.Cyrano wrote:Oh god, its coming out. How long before the world realises the person in the middle of the magnificent 7 photo opp at the 19th CCP conference is in fact a body double put there by MAD ?
Double Jeopardy
The practice of hiring “body doubles” or “stand-ins” is well-documented by official Chinese media.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
^^But what If the body double kills the original and takes his place?
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Where's the need if the original is kaput?
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
US proposed G-2 with them as G1 and China as G2.
They gave US market access to enable this.
Once 2008 meltdown happened China realized they can be G1.
To ensure US stays G2, they started selling to the world marketplace and putting strategic chains on India - 2008 Beijing Accord with RaGa, about $550B trade surplus from 2008 to 2020, salami slicing, BRI and CPEC, String of pearls , five fingers strategy and so on and so forth.
They gave US market access to enable this.
Once 2008 meltdown happened China realized they can be G1.
To ensure US stays G2, they started selling to the world marketplace and putting strategic chains on India - 2008 Beijing Accord with RaGa, about $550B trade surplus from 2008 to 2020, salami slicing, BRI and CPEC, String of pearls , five fingers strategy and so on and so forth.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Facebook served me this paid piece today! Interesting how they are spinning it now for a few dollars more...
https://www.ft.com/partnercontent/ping- ... 8QRy1QZhfQ
Tte full piece on FT is here:Calm in the eye of China’s regulatory storm
An inside view on why long-term positive outlook, not market carnage, will be the main takeaway from China’s regulatory tightening
The past three months have been nail-biting times for investors in China, with everything from a state crackdown on big tech to fears of a meltdown in the nation’s property sector. Sensational headlines trumpet a “turning tide” and an “existential crisis”.
It is easy to understand the worries. Since July, China’s tech giants have lost billions in value and the Nasdaq Golden Dragon China Index has fallen nearly 30 per cent*. Sectors as diverse as online education and pharmaceuticals have borne the brunt of government pressure.
A more sober view is that China is undergoing a painful yet necessary transition from an economy of fast growth to one of quality growth — to one that will ultimately reward patient and judicious investors.
“What people call the regulatory ‘storm’ is not a sudden event but actually a process that began years ago to help China transition to more quality-driven growth,” says Vincent Che, head of equities at Ping An Asset Management (Hong Kong). “We see a short-term pain, long-term gain mindset coming from the top.”
According to Che, China’s leadership has decided that the days of debt-fuelled investment and property-driven growth are over. He says China is instead pegging its future on cutting-edge innovation — driven by more than just a handful of tech giants — to boost productivity and avoid a middle-income trap of plateauing growth...
https://www.ft.com/partnercontent/ping- ... 8QRy1QZhfQ
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Monkey-brain study with link to China's military roils top European university
https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive ... 021-11-18/
https://www.reuters.com/world/exclusive ... 021-11-18/
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... nce-report
Work on ‘Chinese military base’ in UAE abandoned after US intervenes – report
Satellite images reportedly detected construction of secret facility at Khalifa port amid growing US-China rivalry
Work on ‘Chinese military base’ in UAE abandoned after US intervenes – report
Satellite images reportedly detected construction of secret facility at Khalifa port amid growing US-China rivalry
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/am ... ina-196715
Please to read closely and recognize the Sugarland mouthpiece and the Paxi template.
Please to read closely and recognize the Sugarland mouthpiece and the Paxi template.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
CCP's own apologists couldn't have grovelled any better.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Cyrano wrote:CCP's own apologists couldn't have grovelled any better.
I wouldn’t say “groveling.” It’s propaganda and psyops directed at the readership which is the US national security community.
The Maitra article reads like a Global Times article tailored for a US readership. Main takeaways for example me were
- the paki-style nuclear threat: “Taiwan is a nuclear flashpoint.”
- the out-of-nowhere swipe at “illiberal and authoritarian” India. This is a ploy to exploit the existing dichotomy in US -India relationship—the “liberal” segment that makes India into a human rights villain, versus the pragmatic national security segment that wants an alliance with India.
My guess is that Maitra is a well-paid Chinese agent.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Or is positioning himself to become one, in which case my qualification stands.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Confused and direction less Indian foreign policy and lack of clarity in strategic thinking. It is the wrong time to support China on any issue. The least that India could have done was not been part of this joint statement of the Foreign Ministers of Russia, China and India. And this is while some other countries are calling for a diplomatic boycott of the Winter Olympics.
India, Russia throw weight behind China to host Beijing Winter Olympics
India, Russia throw weight behind China to host Beijing Winter Olympics
India has joined Russia in expressing its support to China in hosting the Winter Olympics in Beijing in February next year. India made its position clear in a joint statement released after a virtual meeting of foreign ministers of India, China and Russia on Friday. "The Ministers expressed their support to China to host Beijing 2022 Winter Olympic and Paralympic Games," read a joint statement published on the website of India's Ministry of External Affairs.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Don't see as directionless, as there is value for India in giving young india a chance to compete in the olympics -- young India that showing itself as having top-notch talent given the right resources and training. If the refrain for playing with Pakistan from the same crowd in the EU/US is "sports is to be separated from politics, so don't mind the pakis killing you Indians on a regular basis", why is that rule not applicable in this case? Enabling Indian athletes to compete in the next olympics looks like a priority for India compared to kowtowing to the power-play of EU/US that continue to do business with China in this post-COVID world, while trying to use these "hyooman rights" pressure points against China -- and this is the same crowd that wants to take down "fascist modi" for hyooman rites, so they are not exactly paragons of reason or virtue for India to take this boycott-olympics-because-human-rights virtue-signaling . If the US can "work with china" against India's interest (as it has done in Afghanisthan), for its own reasons, so can India.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
There is one Indian participant in the Winter Games.
No country is calling for a sports boycott. They are calling for a diplomatic boycott i.e. diplomats etc. not attending. But no one other than Russia, India and China's usual friends like Pakistan and some African countries will issue statements in support of China. And for India to issue a statement in support when China is trying to gobble up Indian territory is lack of clarity in strategic thinking.
No country is calling for a sports boycott. They are calling for a diplomatic boycott i.e. diplomats etc. not attending. But no one other than Russia, India and China's usual friends like Pakistan and some African countries will issue statements in support of China. And for India to issue a statement in support when China is trying to gobble up Indian territory is lack of clarity in strategic thinking.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
This sounds suspiciously like Nehru saying that China and India must work together against the Imperialist west and supporting China over it's Security Council seat while China was gobbling up Tibet is quite OK just because at least India can have the satisfaction of sticking it to the West. Cut off your nose to spite your face.srikandan wrote:Don't see as directionless, as there is value for India in giving young india a chance to compete in the olympics -- young India that showing itself as having top-notch talent given the right resources and training. If the refrain for playing with Pakistan from the same crowd in the EU/US is "sports is to be separated from politics, so don't mind the pakis killing you Indians on a regular basis", why is that rule not applicable in this case? Enabling Indian athletes to compete in the next olympics looks like a priority for India compared to kowtowing to the power-play of EU/US that continue to do business with China in this post-COVID world, while trying to use these "hyooman rights" pressure points against China -- and this is the same crowd that wants to take down "fascist modi" for hyooman rites, so they are not exactly paragons of reason or virtue for India to take this boycott-olympics-because-human-rights virtue-signaling . If the US can "work with china" against India's interest (as it has done in Afghanisthan), for its own reasons, so can India.
Do what you want to do. But issuing a statement in support at this juncture is wrong. It sends all kinds of wrong signals. No country including India can cut off trade with China because of China's status as a global factory. But political statements do matter.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
So what exactly is so awesome about these countries dumping on China as far as India is concerned, that not being part of that crowd is seen as some sort of a strategic weakness. As long as India continues to defend itself w.r.t. china, why is all of these human-rights shenanigans by the western world any of India's concern? Why is it ok for the EU/US to be Janus-faced about China, to India's detriment, and why should India follow their lead on China?
India can take a stance on the Beijing olympics independent of its military posture with China, like most people can walk and eat samosas at the same time.
Just parading this as actions similar to Bandit Nehru's idiocy w.r.t. China is just hyperbole -- when India has not changed its posture at the border, and has not changed its sanctions against Chinese investments in India.
India can take a stance on the Beijing olympics independent of its military posture with China, like most people can walk and eat samosas at the same time.
Just parading this as actions similar to Bandit Nehru's idiocy w.r.t. China is just hyperbole -- when India has not changed its posture at the border, and has not changed its sanctions against Chinese investments in India.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
Consistency matters. A while back the External Affairs Minister said that there can be no normalcy in India China relations unless the border situation is resolved. China said to de-link the two i.e. tension at the border can co-exist with normal relations otherwise. In every single forum China either opposes India or stays silent, on India's NSG entry has consistently opposed India, on Afghanistan it did not attend the NSA meetings in Delhi etc. on Kashmir and Ladakh the less said the better. I cannot find a single instance of China supporting India in any forum. It has a consistent policy of opposing and undermining India everywhere. So what is surprising and perplexing about this statement is that it deviates from the EAM's own position as stated after the events of June 2020. You can bet that if the positions were reversed, there would not have been any Chinese statement of support for India. Or India should take a lesson from Russia. After the NSG meeting on Afghanistan in Delhi, a joint statement was issued. But Russia issued it's own statement which was at variance with the joint statement as issued by India as the host. India could have done the same. Why support China in any forum? Reciprocate the way China treats India.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
The chinese statement was to delink Trade and China's hostile behavior -- the following link fromFeb 2021 makes that clear.ldev: Consistency matters. A while back the External Affairs Minister said that there can be no normalcy in India China relations unless the border situation is resolved.China said to de-link the two i.e. tension at the border is consistent with normal relations otherwise.
link
and this oone from China's mouthpiece in India
link
And India has not changed its stance on cessation of trade ties with China until the border row is resolved -- where is the inconsistency here? India would have to resume trade ties with China while the two armies face off in the LAC for India's position to be inconsistent.
China was added to the NSG by the same cartel that is now pretending they cannot override China's objections to India joining the NSG.
How is India supporting the Beijing olympics contradicting the above official stance of the GoI?China has in recent months hit out at India’s economic measures, such as the banning of apps and tightening the curbs on investment, saying events on the border should not be linked to other aspects of relations.
India has reiterated its view that such a proposition is untenable, and normal relations can’t be restored until there is peace on the border and a full restoration of the status quo, prior to last summer’s transgressions.
Mr. Jaishankar underlined that view in his speech, saying that any expectation that the events on the border “can be brushed aside and that life can carry on undisturbed despite the situation in the border is simply not realistic.”
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
I generally do not post or follow this thread - so apologies if this is already posted.
These statements from Minister Jaishankar are important as they were made at Russia-India-China dialogue. All these directed at China primarily. Such plain speaking is departure from past. Shows growing Indian confidence.
There is a nice thread of tweets by Jeff Smith
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These statements from Minister Jaishankar are important as they were made at Russia-India-China dialogue. All these directed at China primarily. Such plain speaking is departure from past. Shows growing Indian confidence.
There is a nice thread of tweets by Jeff Smith
>>>
Translation: China, stop blocking India's bid to become a permanent member of the UN Security Council. The other four members have already signaled their support.There is a crying need for reformed multilateralism. Defending the outcome of the Second World War does not mean freezing the world order at 1945 forever.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
China at the last minute, supported India's position on Coal "phase down" instead of "phase out" at the recent COP26 at Glasgow. Though China did that for its own reasons, they could have extracted a quid pro quo from India to support Beijing winter Olympics. If we fell for that, or some other righteous reason, then we have not learnt our lessons.
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
India will not go to the beijing winter olympics.Cyrano wrote:China at the last minute, supported India's position on Coal "phase down" instead of "phase out" at the recent COP26 at Glasgow. Though China did that for its own reasons, they could have extracted a quid pro quo from India to support Beijing winter Olympics. If we fell for that, or some other righteous reason, then we have not learnt our lessons.
there has already been too much bad blood spilled for India to forget and forgive.
Modi would have gone ahead with the coal "phase down" as a non negotiable condition, with or without xi
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
One more wicket down...........clean bowled onlee
Re: Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (15-11-2017)
^^ India needs to step in with a soft loan and rescue Uganda from China. There are many benefits to this for us -- get a stake in running of the airport or ask for some other rights (military base / mining, etc.) India has much better goodwill in Africa than China. These are the opportunities that Indian Foreign Ministry should look for and step in quickly.