Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

[John]

So then, the point remains:
Why create a weapon system like SMART for subs alone when targeting ASW assets like p8 could easily engage them with onboard weapons?

Maybe a barrage of these from land based platforms to tackle CBGs?

Nah using it against CBG isn’t that effective since they can be shot down easier than land based Brahmos (ext ones have the same range as this) or even sub sonic AshM . Because they need to get close to target to deploy torpedo and they fly a ballistic flight path.

IMO they are intended to be used with Satellite and aerial drones when they spot a submarine that is snorkeling, sending over P-8 in standby couple to take out the threat will take over an hr. Where as this missile can reach a target 600 km away in 10 mins (assume Mach 3).

This could also be cover for long ranged AshM based on this similar to DF-15.

[brar_w]

So then, the point remains:
Why create a weapon system like SMART for subs alone when targeting ASW assets like p8 could easily engage them with onboard weapons?

Why do you get an impression that they are mutually exclusive capabilities? The P-8 is going to be available in limited quantity (and the IOR is rather large not to mention other missions and areas where it could be potentially called upon), and any persistent unmanned platform is not going to have the sort of firepower that it can carry. So both these capabilities can co-exist.

[Cain Marko]

So then, the point remains:
Why create a weapon system like SMART for subs alone when targeting ASW assets like p8 could easily engage them with onboard weapons?

Maybe a barrage of these from land based platforms to tackle CBGs?

Nah using it against CBG isn’t that effective since they can be shot down easier than land based Brahmos (ext ones have the same range as this) or even sub sonic AshM . Because they need to get close to target to deploy torpedo and they fly a ballistic flight path.

IMO they are intended to be used with Satellite and aerial drones when they spot a submarine that is snorkeling, sending over P-8 in standby couple to take out the threat will take over an hr. Where as this missile can reach a target 600 km away in 10 mins (assume Mach 3).

This could also be cover for long ranged AshM based on this similar to DF-15.

Fair points, makes sense. This should be esp. Useful with the surveillance capability provided by the sea guardians

Why do you get an impression that they are mutually exclusive capabilities? The P-8 is going to be available in limited quantity (and the IOR is rather large not to mention other missions and areas where it could be potentially called upon), and any persistent unmanned platform is not going to have the sort of firepower that it can carry. So both these capabilities can co-exist.

Not saying that these are mutually exclusive, just toying with the additional capability vs surface assets since it was being pitched mainly vs subs.

[ramana]

So then, the point remains:
Why create a weapon system like SMART for subs alone when targeting ASW assets like p8 could easily engage them with onboard weapons?

Maybe a barrage of these from land based platforms to tackle CBGs?

The graphic put by the Twitter account shows ASW is near term and AUSW is middle term capability.
Su-30 with Brahmos will handle CBGs.

[ramana]

IN doesn't toy with ideas for its funds are barely just adequate.

[Cain Marko]

So then, the point remains:
Why create a weapon system like SMART for subs alone when targeting ASW assets like p8 could easily engage them with onboard weapons?

Maybe a barrage of these from land based platforms to tackle CBGs?

The graphic put by the Twitter account shows ASW is near term and AUSW is middle term capability.
Su-30 with Brahmos will handle CBGs.

Good catch Ramanaji, totally slipped my eyes.

[YashG]

A good summary on Smart

Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
https://mobile.twitter.com/vkthakur/sta ... 6427882498

There is a lot of misinformation coming from 'experts' on
@DRDO_India
's maiden test of SMART.
1. Missile launched torpedo tech is of 1980's vintage. US ASROC (ballistic) and Russian Club-S 91RE1 (cruise) missile systems being examples.
2. The missile requires precise targeting information because the torpedo has to be dropped within its very limited sonar range.
3. An accurate drop would bring the missile into a surface ship's AD engagement range. Hence the missile works best against submarines.
. Comments that the missile could be used to shut down Gwadar or Karachi ports are balderdash.
5. The SMART project was sanctioned in November 2016 for use with TAL .
@DRDO_India
needs to be commended on quick development.
6. SMART can engage submarines between 50-650 km range.
The SMART (Supersonic Missile Assisted Torpedo) system; was tested to its full range of 650-km on December 13, 2021. The combination of the land mobile SMART & the P-8I could be very effectively leveraged in ops to keep adversary subs well away from our coast line.

[YashG]

SMART + UUVs will be force multiplier. Satellite based identification of subs will have a longer command chain time - not so promising. But only L&T has some foreign collaboration on UUVs. I have not seen much on UUVs. One project has been languishing after a test flight in 2011.

L&T AUV project with an italian firm - I'm not sure how much is it genuine collaboration or just foreign screw-driver giri.
https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... icles.html

[Karan M]

So then, the point remains:
Why create a weapon system like SMART for subs alone when targeting ASW assets like p8 could easily engage them with onboard weapons?

Maybe a barrage of these from land based platforms to tackle CBGs?

Sea Guardian, Do-228, P8I will not always carry weapons. The SMART offers an additional magazine even if the former do carry weapons and run out of rounds.

[Yagnasri]

It is quite possible that there may be some fixed underwater sensors at various locations hearing for the subs and they may be used to generally locate the subs and they hunt for the specific areas with various platforms.

[AdityaM]

A newbie question:
Sub commanders get their mission details in closed envelope which they open when they are already on the move.

With submarine positions being so closely guarded & kept to only a few, how will the safety of own sub be maintained from hunters and those who will fire the SMART like weapons

[Aditya_V]

Submarine will first be identified with Sonar signature before being targeted

[YashG]

A newbie question:
Sub commanders get their mission details in closed envelope which they open when they are already on the move.

With submarine positions being so closely guarded & kept to only a few, how will the safety of own sub be maintained from hunters and those who will fire the SMART like weapons

the IFF responsibility will be on identifier sensor. If the sensor miscalculates, then either SMART or conventional torpedo, we will see friendly fire in either case. I'm not able to foresee in what situation can misidentification happen only in case of SMART and not otherwise.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/Varun55484761/statu ... 72065?s=20 ---> HSTDV will test in early 2022. In picture Hypersonic Cruise Vehicle Schematic.

[ramana]

The Twitter video of the SAAW test on HAS is very impressive. Just kinetic energy. No explosives were used.

[Vicky]

Tender baba says Rudram-II will have an IIR seeker being developed under a project called DIIRS-2 by RCI

[asbchakri]

Looks like 2 more NOTAM's been issued for 739 KM and 1272 KM. Any idea what they might be.

[Aditya_V]

Hopefully Nirbhay and shaurya missile

[Indranil]

Tender baba says Rudram-II will have an IIR seeker being developed under a project called DIIRS-2 by RCI

Clarification. DIIRS-2 is department is a division inside RCI. It stands for Directorate of Imaging Infrared Seeker.

[Prem Kumar]

Are all the Rudram-series missiles anti-radiation? Or is it a class of A2G missiles with different roles?

[ashishvikas]

DRDO conducts successful test of Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) technology from a defence facility off #Odisha coast. Many critical technologies validated during the test conducted for a shorter range signalling the development of new air-to-air missile.

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... 56741?s=20

[Aditya_V]

Great News, Astra MK 1 -Higher Orders, Quick development of Astra Mk2 and SFDR are the need for the day

[Prem Kumar]

Great news! DRDO is on a roll this last couple of weeks.

Wondering why the Astra-1 orders haven't gone beyond 240 odd missiles, given that its been extensively tested from the Rambhas. This number is inadequate for even the Rambha fleet

[Vicky]

Tender baba says Rudram-II will have an IIR seeker being developed under a project called DIIRS-2 by RCI

Clarification. DIIRS-2 is department is a division inside RCI. It stands for Directorate of Imaging Infrared Seeker.

My mistake trying to simplify the phrase

[Manish_Sharma]

DRDO conducts successful test of Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) technology from a defence facility off #Odisha coast. Many critical technologies validated during the test conducted for a shorter range signalling the development of new air-to-air missile.

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... 56741?s=20

I bet within next few months Meteor will be offered to every platform in IAF.

[YashG]

DRDO conducts successful test of Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) technology from a defence facility off #Odisha coast. Many critical technologies validated during the test conducted for a shorter range signalling the development of new air-to-air missile.

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... 56741?s=20

I bet within next few months Meteor will be offered to every platform in IAF.

Cant wait!
SFDR will be a game changer for subcontinent. Unlike the legendary 1000km a2a cheeni miracle missiles, this missile will fly in full public scrutiny and prove its worth.

[basant]

Great news! DRDO is on a roll this last couple of weeks.

Wondering why the Astra-1 orders haven't gone beyond 240 odd missiles, given that its been extensively tested from the Rambhas. This number is inadequate for even the Rambha fleet

Because `the Navy will get 48 Astra missiles for its MiG-29K fighter jets, while 200 missiles have been acquired for its 33 new Russian fighter planes including 12 Su-30 MKIs and 21 MiG-29s.' More missiles are expected to be ordered later.

[YashG]

Just like helicopter program, where dhruv took time but later versions came faster. Astra took time, sfdr will come faster. Same with tejas line. Dhruv, astra, tejas are industry creators.

[Barath]

It is quite possible that there may be some fixed underwater sensors at various locations hearing for the subs and they may be used to generally locate the subs and they hunt for the specific areas with various platforms.

https://resonantnews.com/2020/07/03/ind ... -partners/

[Barath]

DRDO conducts successful test of Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet (SFDR) technology from a defence facility off #Odisha coast. Many critical technologies validated during the test conducted for a shorter range signalling the development of new air-to-air missile.

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... 56741?s=20

I bet within next few months Meteor will be offered to every platform in IAF.

https://www.ajaishukla.com/2018/12/isra ... e.html?m=1

Any aircraft with uttam radar, i assume. (Future tejas mk1A etc). Rafale has it, mirage is a matter of money. Others still run up against 3rd party radars

https://theprint.in/defence/iafs-mirage ... st/292600/

6 countries including germany means that co-ordination , agility and export aggressiveness by changing stance is poor

[Cain Marko]

So then, the point remains:
Why create a weapon system like SMART for subs alone when targeting ASW assets like p8 could easily engage them with onboard weapons?

Maybe a barrage of these from land based platforms to tackle CBGs?

Sea Guardian, Do-228, P8I will not always carry weapons. The SMART offers an additional magazine even if the former do carry weapons and run out of rounds.

That makes sense.

[ramana]

Also, PLAN is challenging the waters.
And possibly USN is trying to spoof the defenses.
FONOPS was announced.
We don't know how many are unannounced?
So SMART makes them smart and stay away.

[Prem Kumar]

Proof of the pudding is in the eating. I hope & am reasonably confident that the IN will show the way by inducting SMART in large numbers

[Atmavik]

Proof of the pudding is in the eating. I hope & am reasonably confident that the IN will show the way by inducting SMART in large numbers

Wonder if our Aussie friends will be interested in this system. They have the similar ASW platforms as we do.

[Prem Kumar]

Its a semi-strategic weapon system and lets exploit it first to its fullest. Perhaps we can sell them this if they collaborate with us to build & maintain a SOSUS array in the Malacca straits

SMART will do to submarine warfare dotrine what the DF-21 did to aircraft-carrier protection. Its truly a game-changer.

[Prem Kumar]

Agni-Prime tested again! DRDO is on a roll to finish up a lot of testing by year's end. This test might also signal an accelerated induction as a strategic weapon + AshBM

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1472091648683216896

[Kakarat]

New generation ballistic missile ‘Agni P’ successfully test-fired by DRDO - PIB

Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) successfully tested the new generation nuclear capable ballistic missile ‘Agni P’ from Dr APJ Abdul Kalam island off the coast of Odisha at 1106 hrs on December 18, 2021. Various telemetry, radar, electro-optical stations and down range ships positioned along the eastern coast tracked and monitored the missile trajectory and parameters. The missile followed text book trajectory meeting all mission objectives with high level of accuracy.

The Agni P is a two-stage canisterised solid propellant ballistic missile with dual redundant navigation and guidance system. This second flight-test has proven the reliable performance of all the advanced technologies integrated into the system.

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh congratulated DRDO for the successful flight test and expressed his happiness for the excellent performance of the system. Secretary Department of Defence R&D and Chairman DRDO Dr G Satheesh Reddy appreciated the efforts of the team to have done the second development flight trial with many additional features and congratulated for the consecutive success within the same calendar year.

[Prem Kumar]

"Many additional features" tested. Based on Dr. Avinash Chander's previous interview, I wouldn't be surprised if it included an MaRV with a seeker for a carrier-killer version

[kit]

Deleted

[Lisa]

Nice video of above mentioned launch (I think).

https://www.rt.com/news/543624-india-te ... c-missile/