Chinese Armed Forces: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/FrontalForce/status ... 46150?s=20 ---> Hu Xijin, editor in cheap of Global times asked to resign from his post by Xi Jinping. He spewed venom 24*7 against India.

https://twitter.com/FrontalForce/status ... 97728?s=20 ---> Chief*

[NRao]

https://twitter.com/theragex/status/1471477310540988417 ----->

The projected composition of the expeditionary strike group of the PLA Navy.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 28737?s=20 ---> China has deployed H-6K strategic bombers (armed with LACMs) in Golmud airport in occupied Tibet.

[brar_w]

If you have something like a glider that can spend hundreds or thousands of kms cruising at 50-60 km altitudes then this makes it a lot easier.....

Is the alarm/apprehension of the recent Chinese FOBS/Hypersonic test related to a Chinese attempt to have precisely such a glider?

Not really. You aren't going to launch an ICBM or a FOBS with a glider for attacking a ship even one that is as expensive as an AC. This is a strategic strike capability meant to defeat ballistic missile defenses against strategic targets.

China will eventually incorporate moving maritime strike capability into its boost glide weapons once it fields ones with sufficient range to add value over and above its DF-21D and beyond series. Its currently fielded hypersonic glider (DF-17) lacks the range to be credible in that department but surely longer ranged systems are coming. The US Army and Navy are adding a data-link, and a seeker to its LRHW/IRCPS weapon for anti-ship and moving target capability and that system is in the 3000 km range class. I'm sure China will replace its DF-21D series of missiles with something similar.

[ldev]

Is the alarm/apprehension of the recent Chinese FOBS/Hypersonic test related to a Chinese attempt to have precisely such a glider?

Not really. You aren't going to launch an ICBM or a FOBS with a glider for attacking a ship even one that is as expensive as an AC. This is a strategic strike capability meant to defeat ballistic missile defenses. China will eventually incorporate moving maritime strike capability into its boost glide weapons once it fields ones with sufficient range to add value over and above its DF-21D and beyond series. Its currently fielded hypersonic glider (DF-17) lacks the range to be credible in that department but surely longer ranged systems are coming. The US Army and Navy are adding a data-link, and a seeker to its LRHW/IRCPS weapon for anti-ship and moving target capability and that system is in the 3000 km range class. I'm sure China will replace its DF-21D series of missiles with something similar.

No doubt, the primary purpose of FOBS/Hypersonic is to overcome BMD but that is something the US is countering by the launch of it's next generation Early Warning Satellites which I understand will be able to track hypersonics and so provide early track data for BMD interceptors. But in theory it could secondarily be used to target an AC specially in the South China Sea/ Western Pacific area where Chinese satellites will be able to track US AC movements in real time. Like a stop gap arrangement until they are able to perfect the DF-21D for the anti shipping role or until they are able to come up with their version of the US LRHW etc.

[brar_w]

Perfecting the DF-21D for anti-ship role is going to be far easier than trying to fully develop, produce, and field a FOBS capable of launching a hypersonic payload and tying that into an actual ISR grid for targeting a CVN at range. Not only will this take numerous, possible dozens, of actual tests which will take time and cost a bomb, but will also require creating and fielding of a level of survivable ISR capability that currently does not exist. It isn't easy to very accurately know the location of, and be able to track, something like a US CVN from thousands of miles away when the the entire US military is going to go after your ISR or begin acting to degrade your ability to do it. Deception, targeting of EW sites, OTH sites, Cyber, Space-denial and other means will be used to degrade the long range ISR ability of China, and fielding a very long range CVN strike capability that is resilient to those is going to cost many orders of magnitude (and take similarly long time) then the relatively shorter ranges of something like the DF-21. They are still better of fielding a stealth bomber with the ability to saturate a CBG with anti-ship weapons. It would be fielded quicker, cost a fraction, and will actually be credible since a group of such bombers can do its own ISR using organic sensors.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/DefenceInsight_/sta ... 45028?s=20 ---> The Chinese military is reportedly moving a large number of unmanned ground vehicles to the Tibetan plateau, taking over the duties of ethnic Han soldiers in the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), who are struggling with Tibet’s cold temperatures and thin air.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 15873?s=20 ---> New oxygen chamber specifically built for high-altitude troops in Xinjiang. It seats eight at the same time.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 00576?s=20 ---> Exchange of data on PLAAF/PLA-AD between Indian and Taiwanese militaries that have been gathered by each other's ESM systems is opening up as a possible avenue of Intel cooperation between both sides. Will help in greater undestanding of PLA E-ORBAT for both nations: Taiwan media.

[k prasad]

https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 15873?s=20 ---> New oxygen chamber specifically built for high-altitude troops in Xinjiang. It seats eight at the same time.

High altitude mountaineers will always say that the most dangerous situation when climbing is to run out of oxygen, because the body suddenly gets the shock of not having enough air and not having acclimated to the low oxygen. If any of you are familiar with the 1996 Everest Disaster, you'll recall Anatoli Boukreev's decision NOT to use supplementary oxygen, because of which he was able to stay strong enough and acclimated enough to launch rescues later.

If the princelings are being given such perks and grow used to them, it risks severely degrading their combat performance when they run out of, or are far away from the high oxygen environment.

Good luck to them!

[vimal]

^^ Even i'm surprised by this. How are you supposed to get out these 5 star facilites and fight in freezing temps and low Oxygen. This might be helpful to injured of sick folks but not sure how a healthy person can be combat ready with this.

[Rakesh]

All pomp and show onlee. Zero war fighting capability (in terms of boots on the ground).

[k prasad]

^^ Even i'm surprised by this. How are you supposed to get out these 5 star facilites and fight in freezing temps and low Oxygen. This might be helpful to injured of sick folks but not sure how a healthy person can be combat ready with this.

That's what I found interesting. This is clearly NOT a medical treatment facility, but a recovery facility for healthy soldiers.

I mean, this isn't to run it down. Very likely such a setup will be incredibly helpful and useful for soldiers to maintain their strength and health, but the protocols for use need to be strictly followed else it'll lead to more problems in actual deployment

[vimal]

And the LED TV is for showing Kapil Sharma show on their leisure time

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 23490?s=20 ---> A mock-up placed at the "13th Five Year Plan" Achievement Exhibition in Shanghai, the model offers first look at the concept of Chinese sixth generation fighter that is reportedly in design phase and will fulfill the demands of People Liberation Army Air Force in future.

https://twitter.com/RAFIndia_/status/14 ... 94497?s=20 ---> In a promo video released on November 9, 2021 to celebrate 72nd founding anniversary of PLAAF, a small size model of unnamed aircraft was showcased for couple of frames. The recent mockup roughly resembles the same design. Though one can expect differences in final product.

[Rakesh]

China unveils new LY-70 mobile short/medium-range air defense missile system
https://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons ... ystem.html

[Rakesh]

China defends sweeping maritime claims after US criticism
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 877240.cms
13 Jan 2022

[Rakesh]

Specifically posting this in here because of the above post.

US Navy official says service is going ‘head to head with our adversaries’ all over the world
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... the-world/
12 Jan 2022

[Rakesh]

China criticizes US missile sanctions as hypocrisy
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 042468.cms
21 Jan 2022

[brar_w]

Specifically posting this in here because of the above post.

US Navy official says service is going ‘head to head with our adversaries’ all over the world
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... the-world/
12 Jan 2022

There is a degree of heightened tension in the SCS and beyond. currently. No idea why or what signals the US and China are trying to send to each other but definitely an elevated state of deployments and signaling. The US very publicly released information of a SSBN (USS Nevada) visiting Guam earlier this month, and also had 1 carrier strike group, and one amphibious readiness group in the South China Sea operating together for at least 4-5 days last week before it moved out of the region. China too had a deployed carrier group in the SCS.

[Rakesh]

There is a degree of heightened tension in the SCS and beyond. currently. No idea why or what signals the US and China are trying to send to each other but definitely an elevated state of deployments and signaling. The US very publicly released information of a SSBN (USS Nevada) visiting Guam earlier this month, and also had 1 carrier strike group, and one amphibious readiness group in the South China Sea operating together for at least 4-5 days last week before it moved out of the region. China too had a deployed carrier group in the SCS.

The only thing the Chinese understand is strength. As much as no one wants war, the Chinese are long overdue for a loss of H&D. With the deployments presently in the South China Sea, the US is best placed to deliver that to China. They certainly have the military might to do that, the political will is what remains to be seen with the Biden Administration. With the Ukraine conflict looming, China might use that as an excuse to launch an invasion of Taiwan. Perhaps the ChiComs feel that the US' attention might get tied down in Ukraine. Nice to know that you mentioned the USS Nevada, because I saw this on twitter a few days back. I believe the author of the tweet is mistaken (unless I am!), but I believe the Nevada has not undergone the SSGN conversion.

https://twitter.com/InsightGL/status/14 ... 97123?s=20 --->

- On 15 January 2022, USA's Ohio Class nuclear powered submarine - USS Nevada - docked at naval base Guam.
- These submarines very rarely make public appearances.
- This was pure display of power.
- Most feared by China. US has 15 such subs [wiki says 14 SSBNs and 4 SSGNs] - all Ohio Class
- In six minutes they can launch 154 Tomohawks destroying Chinese A2/AD.

[Rakesh]

Look at what just cropped up somewhere in China!

https://twitter.com/louischeung_hk/stat ... 33441?s=20 ---> A familiar aircraft

https://twitter.com/Defencematrix1/stat ... 46112?s=20 ---> Who is surprised. It's 100% Made-in-China developed technology.

[brar_w]

Nice to know that you mentioned the USS Nevada, because I saw this on twitter a few days back. I believe the author of the tweet is mistaken (unless I am!), but I believe the Nevada has not undergone the SSGN conversion.

You are correct. Still a SSBN equipped with a couple of dozen Trident D5's.

[Rakesh]

China’s New Naval Mystery: Mini Zumwalt Stealth Vessel
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... th-vessel/
16 Feb 2022

[anupmisra]

Look at what just cropped up somewhere in China!

I don't know how I missed the obvious. I believe that this is a fake, a prop, a carefully stage-managed subterfuge. Very china-like. The obvious questions:

1. How did they manage to get a plane of this size towed to this location? Note the narrow alleys and lack of turning radius. Unless it was "air-dropped"?
2. Note that the plane is sitting on a metal grid (with its nose pointing out for a photo) on top of a poorly constructed stone patio, with the tell-tale signs of waterlogging. You wouldn't put a billion-dollar machine here.
3. Note, when you zoom in, the overall shape is not precise and the tails are very slightly misaligned.
4. This prop (akin to the allies use of props to fool the Nazis) is meant to be seen and photographed by an obliging chini photographer

[Pratyush]

To me it looks like a science project from some nearby institute. The components were driven in place and assembled in place for measurement of actual radar signature if the shape and various radar absorbing coating.

[k prasad]

You won't be able to get an accurate RCS reading in this setup, because of reflections off the surrounding buildings. Typically when such RCS measurements are done on full scale models, the model is placed on a high pole (see this representative example). Plus, the shaping doesn't mean very much because further RCS reductions occur from RAM coatings. Also, you want to ensure that the object being characterized is in the far field to get a good RCS characterization for that particular band. But this could very well be some sort of a testing model for investigating shaped stealth.

What might be likely is that the blue-roofed building next to the model is an EM characterization and measurement facility with a large anechoic chamber.

[Aditya_V]

That is no airplane, zoom in and see green lights at the back, either its photoshopped or a display item with disco lights.

[k prasad]

That is no airplane, zoom in and see green lights at the back, either its photoshopped or a display item with disco lights.

It's definitely a non-flying mockup. I wouldn't be surprised if it's nothing more than a shell made from thin metal & fiberglass / composites. It's almost certainly NOT photoshopped, since there are satellite images of this mockup from the air.

Bigger question really, is what this mockup is being used for. It MIGHT be for RCS measurements, but from my understanding and the location, seems a bit unlikely. It's also too large for a wind tunnel.So, what then?

[sajaym]

So, what then?

CONSPIRACY THEORY: My guess it that it is a prototype of some project in that building. They might be working on some 3d printing project for copying foreign fighter designs. They might have got some parts of the F117 that got shot down in Serbia and they might be seeing if they can build a full aircraft from bits and pieces of crashed aircraft. Or maybe they're working on some scanning technology which will help them to scan foreign fighters from airshows, multinational exercises, air crashes and then reproduce that aircraft through 3d printing. From this there are two further scenarios:
1) They'll scan Israeli F-35s and build copies which they'll sell to the Turks who really wanted F-35s.
2) They'll scan Indian fighters and build look-alike drones with which they'll flood the skies during a war. As an Indian pilot, how will you differentiate a real fighter from a drone??

[k prasad]

CONSPIRACY THEORY: My guess it that it is a prototype of some project in that building. They might be working on some 3d printing project for copying foreign fighter designs. They might have got some parts of the F117 that got shot down in Serbia and they might be seeing if they can build a full aircraft from bits and pieces of crashed aircraft. Or maybe they're working on some scanning technology which will help them to scan foreign fighters from airshows, multinational exercises, air crashes and then reproduce that aircraft through 3d printing. From this there are two further scenarios:
1) They'll scan Israeli F-35s and build copies which they'll sell to the Turks who really wanted F-35s.
2) They'll scan Indian fighters and build look-alike drones with which they'll flood the skies during a war. As an Indian pilot, how will you differentiate a real fighter from a drone??

Saar, when I was in school, we had an aeromodelling course. For a few months, we were taught how to make fairly accurate thermocol models of different aircrafts - the F-16, Mig-25 (that was my favourite), among others. We did that using only the orthographic projections, which are available online for any aircraft. What I'm trying to say is, it's incredibly easy to build an accurate external model of any aircraft using available OSINT data. The key is what that can be used for. There's no purpose in modelling an aircraft's exterior and building a replica... that's basically the same as a taxidermied tiger. Looks real enough. Can't do anything. The insides are what make an aircraft. China has gotten reasonably good at making aircraft of its own, so the reproduction modelling theory is a bit thin.

Secondly, look-alike drones won't fool anyone in the modern battlefield, with IFF, etc in the mix. Plus, any force deployment will know exactly who is where. All that a look-alike MIGHT do is cause a momentary confusion when in visual range. But there's enough time before that to know what's coming so even that moment won't happen.

[AkshaySG]

So, what then?

CONSPIRACY THEORY:
2) They'll scan Indian fighters and build look-alike drones with which they'll flood the skies during a war. As an Indian pilot, how will you differentiate a real fighter from a drone??

China already has lots of Flankers and flanker clones they don't need to make these drones to make similar looking fighters... They can make the real thing and have been doing so for the past two decades.

Besides with modern tech, IFF, Radars etc simply a fighter "looking" somewhat like ours makes no difference, a lot of the fighting would be be beyond visual range as well.

As for any drone swarms then those are best defeated by ground based AA systems and we would need to build up our capacity further on that but it's nothing we can't cater for.

[Cyrano]

[VinodTK]

UAE to buy a dozen Chinese L-15 trainer aircraft

UAE Air Force Col. Abdulnaser Al Humeidi revealed the country’s intent to buy the fixed-winged Chinese aircraft, with the possibility of increasing the quantity to 36. The L-15 is a training and light-attack aircraft for fourth- and fifth-generation fighter pilot training.

[Rakesh]

Half A Dozen Chinese Y-20 Cargo Jets Popped Up Over Europe Last Night
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... last-night
09 April 2022

[rajkumar]

Half A Dozen Chinese Y-20 Cargo Jets Popped Up Over Europe Last Night
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... last-night
09 April 2022

They are delivering Chinese SAM system to Serbia

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... BCwg7lLXsA ---> China signs defence pact with Solomon Islands. Australia fears China will eventually deploy hypersonic cruise missiles and HGVs (Hypersonic Glide Vehicle) there.

[brar_w]

China Test-Fires New YJ-21 Hypersonic Missile

Naval News regular contributor and analyst H I Sutton identified the missile as the hypersonic YJ-21 anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), based on the CM-401 design.

The YJ-21 characteristics are unknown because there has been no official notice of the test launch. The footage, on the other hand, implies a cold-launched (possibly two-stage) missile, implying an ant-ship ballistic missile with HGV. The control surfaces are rather small which means this is likely not an anti-air missile. According to open data, the VLS fitted aboard the Type 055s can accommodate missiles with the following maximum measurements: Length of 9 meters and diameter of 0.85 meters.

If this missile turns out to be the hypersonic YJ-21, the Type 055 cruisers would arguably become the most heavily armed warships worldwide.

The missile was fired form a Type 055 Renhai-class cruiser. With 8 ships already in the water, the Chinese Navy’s Type-055 Renhai Class cruiser is making waves. It is undoubtedly the most impressive surface combatant in the PLAN (Chinese Navy) line-up, making it a natural focus of observers. New intelligence suggests that at least two more are under construction in Dalian, China.

[Leonard]

Chinese PLAAF -- super-duper J10 crash -- Model Twinseater -- Is this the same being handed over to Fizzle-ya ?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1517892390853390337

[Rakesh]

China won’t repeat Putin’s Ukraine mistakes in Taiwan
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... dopacific/
04 May 2022