Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
My view is that Russia may not have felt the need to use heavy airpower. The "blitz" has been incredible. Reaching the gates of the capital of a large country some 130 miles from the staging ground in 1 day is nothing but spectacular. Especially when everyone and his aunt has been seeing the mobilization for months now.
May be the idea is just to surround the city and force the Ukraine gov to resign or accept ceasefire. The real area capture must be in the southern region. The fight in the capital must be a distraction.
I think even the Russian would have been surprised at the speed at which they reached the capital.
May be the idea is just to surround the city and force the Ukraine gov to resign or accept ceasefire. The real area capture must be in the southern region. The fight in the capital must be a distraction.
I think even the Russian would have been surprised at the speed at which they reached the capital.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
I se a lot of opinion and few facts. Let's have the reverse here please. You can give your opinions on Social Media always.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Ukraines deadly gamble
Fascinating and very indepth article which zeroes in on how Ukraine has reached this stage. And most important as to why Putin decided to make his move now.
Fascinating and very indepth article which zeroes in on how Ukraine has reached this stage. And most important as to why Putin decided to make his move now.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
A comprehensive talk given by John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago on the interlinked issues of Ukraine and potential membership of the EU & NATO given way back in 2015. He predicts in this talk that if Ukraine continues to let itself be used, that it will face destruction!!
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Whatever happens from this point on, Putin has already lost.
He has succeeded in making NATO relevant and vibrant again, something that US couldn't do since the fall of USSR despite their best efforts.
USA will now be able to permanently station troops and assets in countries bordering Russia.
Western European countries will enhance their defense budgets.
USA and NATO countries have, and will continue to, overcome their differences and unite in face of aggressive Russia.
NATO will expand to include countries like Finland and Sweden.
Putin has isolated Russia on the world stage, greatly diminishing their prestige and influence.
Even staunch Russian supporters like China and India have not openly supported the Russian aggression.
Russia will find it impossible to act and play like a major world power from now on.
He has brought on unprecedented sanctions on the Russian economy and the common people.
Life will get much tougher for the average Russian, and the Russian ruble will continue falling.
Germany's end of opposition to SWIFT sanctions will mean that Russia will see the toughest sanctions imposed on any nation, ever.
In the coming months and years, Europe will furiously work to reduce its dependence on Russian oil and gas, eliminating the sole negotiating card for Russia and cutting down on its major source of foreign income.
This will also mean a greater reliance on China, which will be able to dictate terms. This in turn means loss of strategic autonomy for Russia.
Putin has succeeded in uniting the world behind Ukraine, and in making Zelensky an international hero.
Putin's actions were pinned on the single hope of a quick capitulation, accompanied by abandonment and flight of the Ukrainian leadership. There was also hope of Ukrainians rising up against their leadership. Nothing like that has happened. Russia will eventually overcome Ukrainian resistance, but that will be a hollow victory which will give Putin nothing.
Putin's actions since 2014, capped by this attack, have united the Ukrainians like never before and awakened patriotism and national unity amongst them.
Note that before 2014, Ukraine was ambivalent about siding with the west vs. Russia, and Russia enjoyed considerable support amongst the Ukrainian population. Ukraine also spent much less on national defense till 2014 than it does now.
Putin's actions have seen that goodwill and support dwindle, to the point that Ukrainians have become sworn enemies.
This ill-will and hatred will last generations. Imagine Europe's 2nd largest nation in area with a population of 45 million, right next to your border, considering you its sworn enemy. How does that protect Russia's interests?
The only hope that Russian state has of mitigating this disaster is to disown Putin and his actions.
I'm sure the Russian state is internally discussing just how much of a liability Putin has become, and how to do course correction.
If Putin manages to survive, Russian interests will be irreparably damaged and the ordinary Russians will have a long arduous road of hardships ahead.
He has succeeded in making NATO relevant and vibrant again, something that US couldn't do since the fall of USSR despite their best efforts.
USA will now be able to permanently station troops and assets in countries bordering Russia.
Western European countries will enhance their defense budgets.
USA and NATO countries have, and will continue to, overcome their differences and unite in face of aggressive Russia.
NATO will expand to include countries like Finland and Sweden.
Putin has isolated Russia on the world stage, greatly diminishing their prestige and influence.
Even staunch Russian supporters like China and India have not openly supported the Russian aggression.
Russia will find it impossible to act and play like a major world power from now on.
He has brought on unprecedented sanctions on the Russian economy and the common people.
Life will get much tougher for the average Russian, and the Russian ruble will continue falling.
Germany's end of opposition to SWIFT sanctions will mean that Russia will see the toughest sanctions imposed on any nation, ever.
In the coming months and years, Europe will furiously work to reduce its dependence on Russian oil and gas, eliminating the sole negotiating card for Russia and cutting down on its major source of foreign income.
This will also mean a greater reliance on China, which will be able to dictate terms. This in turn means loss of strategic autonomy for Russia.
Putin has succeeded in uniting the world behind Ukraine, and in making Zelensky an international hero.
Putin's actions were pinned on the single hope of a quick capitulation, accompanied by abandonment and flight of the Ukrainian leadership. There was also hope of Ukrainians rising up against their leadership. Nothing like that has happened. Russia will eventually overcome Ukrainian resistance, but that will be a hollow victory which will give Putin nothing.
Putin's actions since 2014, capped by this attack, have united the Ukrainians like never before and awakened patriotism and national unity amongst them.
Note that before 2014, Ukraine was ambivalent about siding with the west vs. Russia, and Russia enjoyed considerable support amongst the Ukrainian population. Ukraine also spent much less on national defense till 2014 than it does now.
Putin's actions have seen that goodwill and support dwindle, to the point that Ukrainians have become sworn enemies.
This ill-will and hatred will last generations. Imagine Europe's 2nd largest nation in area with a population of 45 million, right next to your border, considering you its sworn enemy. How does that protect Russia's interests?
The only hope that Russian state has of mitigating this disaster is to disown Putin and his actions.
I'm sure the Russian state is internally discussing just how much of a liability Putin has become, and how to do course correction.
If Putin manages to survive, Russian interests will be irreparably damaged and the ordinary Russians will have a long arduous road of hardships ahead.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Iran is cut off from SWIFT as well.ManuJ wrote: Germany's end of opposition to SWIFT sanctions will mean that Russia will see the toughest sanctions imposed on any nation, ever.
Still don't think Russia is getting cut off, but even if they do, they're going to be okay.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
wont it undermine swift itself, Russia exports a large amount of hydrocarbons , something every country needs.. i think an alternative system will increasingly take hold ..and once major countries like india and china use that...m_saini wrote:Iran is cut off from SWIFT as well.ManuJ wrote: Germany's end of opposition to SWIFT sanctions will mean that Russia will see the toughest sanctions imposed on any nation, ever.
Still don't think Russia is getting cut off, but even if they do, they're going to be okay.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
sanctions exempt only energy exports.kit wrote:wont it undermine swift itself, Russia exports a large amount of hydrocarbons , something every country needs.. i think an alternative system will increasingly take hold ..and once major countries like india and china use that...m_saini wrote:
Iran is cut off from SWIFT as well.
Still don't think Russia is getting cut off, but even if they do, they're going to be okay.
the SWIFT ban may apply to all else, whenever the ban kicks in
they have already blockaded the english channel and the french navy has escorted to port a russki ship carrying cars .
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
A China-Russia SWIFT Alternative Will Not Undermine Iran Sanctionskit wrote:wont it undermine swift itself, Russia exports a large amount of hydrocarbons , something every country needs.. i think an alternative system will increasingly take hold ..and once major countries like india and china use that...
Bank of China is the 4th largest bank in the world, almost 5 times the size of State bank of India SBI. So Russians already have a way out. Combining with the fact that energy exports would likely be left out of sanctions, don't think Putin will be quite worried.On December 15, following talks between Presidents Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping, the Kremlin announced plans to develop a joint financial messaging and clearing system with China.
...Russian leaders describe the SPFS as part of its “Fortress Economy,” a defensive economic strategy adopted in 2014 to insulate the country from foreign pressures...
..Notably, despite the Kremlin’s bluster about joining a Chinese-Russian system, the Bank of China is the only institution from that country to join SPFS.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Looks like a para drop to take the kiev airport in the south
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
There is a reason Iran is not portrayed as a nation with "compelling economy". Lacking access to SWIFT is not a deathknell and Russia is in a better spot than Iran, but it will diminish Russia's economy in a major way.m_saini wrote:
Iran is cut off from SWIFT as well.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Seems like after the initial rapid thrust, Russian forces are getting some resistance to reach Kiev and topple the Govt.
It's not yet clear if the invasion will be over in a week or drag on for several weeks and months.
Time for us to start thinking about how a prolonged conflict will impact India and its adversaires Pakistan, China and antagoniser Turkey.
Pakis will get no help from Russia despite Immydimmy's recent gubo, Turkey will slide further with high energy costs, food inflation due to wheat price shooting up, tourism drying up and lira tanking.
How will China get impacted?
How will India get impacted?
It's not yet clear if the invasion will be over in a week or drag on for several weeks and months.
Time for us to start thinking about how a prolonged conflict will impact India and its adversaires Pakistan, China and antagoniser Turkey.
Pakis will get no help from Russia despite Immydimmy's recent gubo, Turkey will slide further with high energy costs, food inflation due to wheat price shooting up, tourism drying up and lira tanking.
How will China get impacted?
How will India get impacted?
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
watch what trump had to say about russia, the pipeline and germany when he was president..
he was prophetic.
watch what trump had to say about russia, the pipeline and germany when he was president
he was prophetic.
watch what trump had to say about russia, the pipeline and germany when he was president
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Absolutely yeah i agree.Jay wrote:...but it will diminish Russia's economy in a major way.
Although cutting off a country of the size and significance (P5, nukes, mil power) of Russia would likely start a chain of events that are hard to predict. e.g who knows what Putin, who controls Russian nukes, might do if faced with rising domestic unrest? A "paki-Putin" if you will.
Imo, SWIFT is a sword that's best left hanging.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
https://www.ft.com/content/c039db89-720 ... 8435cd42d9
Some background info albeit a little biased western view.
Some background info albeit a little biased western view.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
If media reports are to be believed, the Russians are getting bloodied pretty bad. But then again, I'm not seeing any proof for media claims such as the destruction of Russian transports, fighters etc. Even more suspiciously, many depictions of Russian brutalities such as the missile hit on the apartment, the tank running over passenger car etc , turned out to be Ukrainian instead.
Talk about fog of war. One thing seems certain, the Russians have lost the info war, quite comprehensively.
Talk about fog of war. One thing seems certain, the Russians have lost the info war, quite comprehensively.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Zelenski is being made into a hero, ordinary Ukrainians are being shown as very brave and defending their home, anti war protests. All these are meant to prolong the war in Ukraine and west has pretty much succeeded in it so far.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Russian central bank is being sanctioned. There is a lot of chatter on Russians now won't be able use their reserves that much. Any ideas, what this means? It would be interesting to see the effect of these sanctions.
I just think China now has Russia at their mercy.
I just think China now has Russia at their mercy.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
All Putin had to was recognize the two republics and get somevinod wrote:Zelenski is being made into a hero, ordinary Ukrainians are being shown as very brave and defending their home, anti war protests. All these are meant to prolong the war in Ukraine and west has pretty much succeeded in it so far.
guarantee that NATO won’t expand to Ukraine in return he will guarantee Russia won’t attack Ukraine. He could have gotten that deal and walked away a winner.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Yeah but therein less the rub. Don't think either the ukr or the west were willing to concede to those demands.John wrote:All Putin had to was recognize the two republics and get somevinod wrote:Zelenski is being made into a hero, ordinary Ukrainians are being shown as very brave and defending their home, anti war protests. All these are meant to prolong the war in Ukraine and west has pretty much succeeded in it so far.
guarantee that NATO won’t expand to Ukraine in return he will guarantee Russia won’t attack Ukraine. He could have gotten that deal and walked away a winner.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
I believe that was deal Macron was proposing and Z seemed to be ok with it but Putin refused anything that doesn’t involve regime change.Cain Marko wrote:Yeah but therein less the rub. Don't think either the ukr or the west were willing to concede to those demands.John wrote: All Putin had to was recognize the two republics and get some
guarantee that NATO won’t expand to Ukraine in return he will guarantee Russia won’t attack Ukraine. He could have gotten that deal and walked away a winner.
Also later we find out Putin also wanted the eastern republic to include territories that Ukraine was occupying. So basically western Ukraine that is his proxy and eastern Ukraine that he will annex.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Ukraine is a country larger than Pakistan and this is just third day of war.Cain Marko wrote:If media reports are to be believed, the Russians are getting bloodied pretty bad. But then again, I'm not seeing any proof for media claims such as the destruction of Russian transports, fighters etc. Even more suspiciously, many depictions of Russian brutalities such as the missile hit on the apartment, the tank running over passenger car etc , turned out to be Ukrainian instead.
Talk about fog of war. One thing seems certain, the Russians have lost the info war, quite comprehensively.
Russia gave Kiev 24 hours to reconsider after original shock and awe. Kiev declined.
Russia has displayed a lot of restraint in use if air power and heavy artillery so far.
The campaign has been lightning fast. Imagine Islamabad or Lahore on the verge of faling 2nd day of campaign.
A lot of destroyed equipment pics / videos are Ukrainian. Since both sides use similar equipment it gets passed on as Russian.
Amerimutt and Euromutt propaganda has been abysmal, but that is what is blasting on TV 24x7.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Yes. I think that captures it better, more accurately.Thakur_B wrote:
Ukraine is a country larger than Pakistan and this is just third day of war.
Russia gave Kiev 24 hours to reconsider after original shock and awe. Kiev declined.
Russia has displayed a lot of restraint in use if air power and heavy artillery so far.
The campaign has been lightning fast. Imagine Islamabad or Lahore on the verge of faling 2nd day of campaign.
A lot of destroyed equipment pics / videos are Ukrainian. Since both sides use similar equipment it gets passed on as Russian.
Amerimutt and Euromutt propaganda has been abysmal, but that is what is blasting on TV 24x7.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Islamabad and Lahore aren’t 50 km from the border in a flat terrain (Kyiz has been one of worst places to defendThakur_B wrote:Ukraine is a country larger than Pakistan and this is just third day of war.Cain Marko wrote:If media reports are to be believed, the Russians are getting bloodied pretty bad. But then again, I'm not seeing any proof for media claims such as the destruction of Russian transports, fighters etc. Even more suspiciously, many depictions of Russian brutalities such as the missile hit on the apartment, the tank running over passenger car etc , turned out to be Ukrainian instead.
Talk about fog of war. One thing seems certain, the Russians have lost the info war, quite comprehensively.
Russia gave Kiev 24 hours to reconsider after original shock and awe. Kiev declined.
Russia has displayed a lot of restraint in use if air power and heavy artillery so far.
The campaign has been lightning fast. Imagine Islamabad or Lahore on the verge of faling 2nd day of campaign.
A lot of destroyed equipment pics / videos are Ukrainian. Since both sides use similar equipment it gets passed on as Russian.
Amerimutt and Euromutt propaganda has been abysmal, but that is what is blasting on TV 24x7.
In history) and also Ukraine inspite of all the warning refused to throw up its defenses to defend against a north and southern incursion. Literally one of journalist traveling with Russian army from Belarus noted how they didn’t encounter any checkpoints (no mines or destroyed bridges) and Ukrainian resistance even Chernobyl zone was defended by handful of guards.
Literally all the Ukranians were expecting Russia to attack the two breakaway provinces and literally most Ukrainian military was dug in there.
I get it some people have affinity to Russia but fact is the campaign couldn’t have been coordinated more poorly. We have damn tanks stuck on roads because Russians didn’t tell their soldiers where they were going and they never even filled their tanks.
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Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. No plan goes perfectly once it meets reality, do to expect the Russians have had complete success would be incorrect. Having said that there is very little proof of ukranian claims despite the huge media empire on their side. In fact many of their claims turn out to be the opposite.
One thing we can take away is that ukranian power and connectivity infrastructure has been hit badly (or the russkis control this, which seems unlikely) since increasingly we are getting fewer reports.
One thing we can take away is that ukranian power and connectivity infrastructure has been hit badly (or the russkis control this, which seems unlikely) since increasingly we are getting fewer reports.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
https://www.opindia.com/2022/02/ukraine ... te-russia/After India abstained from United Nations Security Council resolution that criticized Russia’s action against Ukraine, the Ukrainian Ambassador to United Nations attempted to use stranded Indian students in Ukraine as a hostage to push the Modi government to reconsider its position on the ongoing Russia-Ukraine crisis
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
When will have Russia ever win the info war? Media is western dominated and so it is really hard to get unbiased info. The other alternative is to watch RT channel, but they are going to side on the Russian point of view. Infowar is really useful to keep your country's population in high morale while making the enemy country population lose their morale. These factors help only if you have the necessary hard military and economic firepower along with it. While the west may say anything, it is always interesting to see what Ukrainian people think. For me Ukrainians are thinking, west is very unreliable and has not provided them much to fight for. So I am expecting Afghanistan redux with a bit different flavor. I like how someone quotes KS ji saying west uses more Delilah policy than Samson. I completely agree with that. I therefore 100% agree with how Goi is handling this. Hurting Russia is what is going to hurt us in the long run.Cain Marko wrote:If media reports are to be believed, the Russians are getting bloodied pretty bad. But then again, I'm not seeing any proof for media claims such as the destruction of Russian transports, fighters etc. Even more suspiciously, many depictions of Russian brutalities such as the missile hit on the apartment, the tank running over passenger car etc , turned out to be Ukrainian instead.
Talk about fog of war. One thing seems certain, the Russians have lost the info war, quite comprehensively.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Lahore is literally 50 km from border on superflat terrain.John wrote:Islamabad and Lahore aren’t 50 km from the border in a flat terrainThakur_B wrote:
Ukraine is a country larger than Pakistan and this is just third day of war.
Russia gave Kiev 24 hours to reconsider after original shock and awe. Kiev declined.
Russia has displayed a lot of restraint in use if air power and heavy artillery so far.
The campaign has been lightning fast. Imagine Islamabad or Lahore on the verge of faling 2nd day of campaign.
A lot of destroyed equipment pics / videos are Ukrainian. Since both sides use similar equipment it gets passed on as Russian.
Amerimutt and Euromutt propaganda has been abysmal, but that is what is blasting on TV 24x7.
The lack of clear objective is what is governing the lack of decisiveness in the military campaign. It is obvious that Russians are trying their best to not turn Ukrainians into blood enemies.I get it some people have affinity to Russia but fact is the campaign couldn’t have been coordinated more poorly
Did they expect the comedian to surrender or flee in face of shock and awe? Probably. But Russ military handling with Kid gloves gives them a shimmer of hope that a long term guerrilla campaign can be sustained.
The comedian is now handing down AKMs to tiktokers without background checks and is asking for RPGs and ATGMs.
Ideally the Russians would want a quick regime change, some guarantees on paper and get the hell out leaving the remains of Ukrainian forces to manage the civil unrest.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
[youtube][/youtube]
Watch from 16:40...
That is quite dangerous for most Dollar dependent economies (which is everyone in the world). The moment that happens most central banks around the world will start looking for other reserve assets and dump the dollar.vinod wrote:Russian central bank is being sanctioned. There is a lot of chatter on Russians now won't be able use their reserves that much. Any ideas, what this means? It would be interesting to see the effect of these sanctions.
I just think China now has Russia at their mercy.
Watch from 16:40...
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Are the Russians really this monumentally naive? Hard to believe; we always have this image of them being pretty ruthless when it comes to war, but this has been the most gentle invasion I've ever seen. The Russians have held back so much of their firepower, even trying to avoid Ukrainian military casualties! What? Who fights a war this way; it's insane.Thakur_B wrote:It is obvious that Russians are trying their best to not turn Ukrainians into blood enemies.
Did they expect the comedian to surrender or flee in face of shock and awe? Probably. But Russ military handling with Kid gloves gives them a shimmer of hope that a long term guerrilla campaign can be sustained.
The comedian is now handing down AKMs to tiktokers without background checks and is asking for RPGs and ATGMs.
Ideally the Russians would want a quick regime change, some guarantees on paper and get the hell out leaving the remains of Ukrainian forces to manage the civil unrest.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Haha true that’s what happens when you been following Eastern Europe for past 5 days feverishly and i completely forgot only realized after I typed. But yea my point stands if there no defense I am pretty sure we should have had no problem driving into suburbs in a few hrs.Lahore is literally 50 km from border on superflat terrain.
No one quite seems to know what he wants, a regime change will never work without significant amount of forces to enforce it, any puppet regime will face a civil war. Will Russia go back in again and in Eastern Ukraine when Russia tries to merge them into two republics what happens to the ethnic Ukranians. They gonna launch a uprising there as well.The lack of clear objective is what is governing the lack of decisiveness in the military campaign. It is obvious that Russians are trying their best to not turn Ukrainians into blood enemies.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
I highly doubt they are holding back they went all out the first day and amount of firepower they threw was impressive. Unless you are wanting Russia to commit atrocity and carpet bomb Kyiv. Even then S-300s will make quick work of any Tu-95s.Y. Kanan wrote:Are the Russians really this monumentally naive? Hard to believe; we always have this image of them being pretty ruthless when it comes to war, but this has been the most gentle invasion I've ever seen. The Russians have held back so much of their firepower, even trying to avoid Ukrainian military casualties! What? Who fights a war this way; it's insane.Thakur_B wrote:It is obvious that Russians are trying their best to not turn Ukrainians into blood enemies.
Did they expect the comedian to surrender or flee in face of shock and awe? Probably. But Russ military handling with Kid gloves gives them a shimmer of hope that a long term guerrilla campaign can be sustained.
The comedian is now handing down AKMs to tiktokers without background checks and is asking for RPGs and ATGMs.
Ideally the Russians would want a quick regime change, some guarantees on paper and get the hell out leaving the remains of Ukrainian forces to manage the civil unrest.
Russians don’t have that many operational jets as the orbat might state. Anyway more than 200 cruise missiles were used and supposedly they used up most of their inventory on that.
Russians have used just about everything in their arsenal other than T-15s and Su-57.
Added: This is largest operation in Russian/Soviet Union history it is bigger than Afghanistan, Chechnya or Georgia or Syria.
Last edited by John on 27 Feb 2022 07:54, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Putin said he is not against the Uk people. Maybe he is giving time for people to leave Kyiv. But then Zelensky passed an order (now under martial law) that no adult male 18-Mort Walker wrote:It does appear strange, as if Russia is holding back. Can't put my finger on it, but the whole operation seems contrived.
(PS: I see that @vijaykarthik gaaru already caught this)
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
No, the Russians are definitely holding back. There's already been ample evidence of this, where large groups of Ukrainian vehicles and personnel amassed in plain sight of Russian ground observers and just milled around for hours without coming under fire, when they were within easy range of countless Smerch, TOS & BM-21 batteries, to say nothing of roving gunships and other aircraft. They've been letting convoys of trucks drive down main highways unmolested for the most part, only engaging important vehicles like SAM systems and such.John wrote:I highly doubt they are holding back they went all out the first day and amount of firepower they threw was impressive. Unless you are wanting Russia to commit atrocity and carpet bomb Kyiv. Even then S-300s will make quick work of any Tu-95s.
Russians don’t have that many operational jets as the orbat might state. Anyway more than 200 cruise missiles were used and supposedly they used up most of their inventory on that.
Russians have used just about everything in their arsenal other than T-15s and Su-57.
Just a lot of bizarre behavior we keep seeing, where the Russians appear to be going easy on the Ukie military itself, almost as if they're expecting the troops to revolt against their own leadership. If that's really the case, the Russians are doomed to failure. This invasion is going to go down as the most monumental Russian blunder since Kharkov 1943.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
And lot of issue they are facing training, logistics and communication which i think you are confusing with as holding back. We have BM-21 parked in a highway with no protection, tanks being sent into urban area with no infantry support and Supply lines having no protection.Y. Kanan wrote:
No, the Russians are definitely holding back. There's already been ample evidence of this, where large groups of Ukrainian vehicles and personnel amassed in plain sight of Russian ground observers and just milled around for hours without coming under fire, when they were within easy range of countless Smerch, TOS & BM-21 batteries, to say nothing of roving gunships and other aircraft. They've been letting convoys of trucks drive down main highways unmolested for the most part, only engaging important vehicles like SAM systems and such.
Just a lot of bizarre behavior we keep seeing, where the Russians appear to be going easy on the Ukie military itself, almost as if they're expecting the troops to revolt against their own leadership. If that's really the case, the Russians are doomed to failure. This invasion is going to go down as the most monumental Russian blunder since Kharkov 1943.
If you go back and see documentary on Afghanistan or Chechnya I & II this is not out of norm for Russians ( in fact better doing better than those conflicts).
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
Guys, this is early days.
Information is heavily dependent on what the Ukrainian's are releasing. That creates a bias in the minds of the watchers. Too much of Putin has lost his marbles.
Take a step back and re assess what really is Russian objective.
Once that understand is clear. The warfighting will become transparent.
Information is heavily dependent on what the Ukrainian's are releasing. That creates a bias in the minds of the watchers. Too much of Putin has lost his marbles.
Take a step back and re assess what really is Russian objective.
Once that understand is clear. The warfighting will become transparent.
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
+++ and, a perfect segue to this article
Day 3 – Western PSYOPs in full overdrive
<^^^Admin note - Russian psyops channel>
Day 3 – Western PSYOPs in full overdrive
<^^^Admin note - Russian psyops channel>
Re: Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]
For those who’re interested in following this war without having huge amounts of time to do it, I’d recommend Wikipedia (!) and this link in particular:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Ru ... of_Ukraine
It’s incredibly well organised, updated regularly, has an animated map of the ongoing campaign, day to day summary, city by city analysis including Kyiv (since Russia has targeted key cities), and sub- sections that include the battle for Hostomel airport. Examples:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kyiv_(2022)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kherson_offensive
Given the barrage of information out there, I am finding it a very convenient one stop source. But I also appreciate the significant problems with using Wikipedia as an information source, especially in a time of war, especially with so much misinformation and rumours floating around, so your mileage may vary.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Ru ... of_Ukraine
It’s incredibly well organised, updated regularly, has an animated map of the ongoing campaign, day to day summary, city by city analysis including Kyiv (since Russia has targeted key cities), and sub- sections that include the battle for Hostomel airport. Examples:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kyiv_(2022)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kherson_offensive
Given the barrage of information out there, I am finding it a very convenient one stop source. But I also appreciate the significant problems with using Wikipedia as an information source, especially in a time of war, especially with so much misinformation and rumours floating around, so your mileage may vary.