Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Mar 2022 16:25

Kati wrote:Scoop

As per Republic, according to the Uki media, former Uki prez Yanukovych has been brought to Belarus as part of the second round of Uki-Rus negotiation.

So apparently Putin is working on installing Yanukovych in Kyev.

This will not work, Russia cannot install a Ukrainian President in such a manner

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 02 Mar 2022 16:32

These are tactics to present to the Ukraine people, primarily (Eastern Russian speaking) that there is no need to "fight" Russia. The second audience is Russian people, to demonstrate that RF forces are acting on the behest of Russians in Ukraine. The last but not the least, international community, that Ukraine is a divided house. The third audience will not be budged from their current stance. The first and second set, according to me, are the primary focus.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 02 Mar 2022 16:34

Kati wrote:Scoop

As per Republic, according to the Uki media, former Uki prez Yanukovych has been brought to Belarus as part of the second round of Uki-Rus negotiation.

So apparently Putin is working on installing Yanukovych in Kyev.

Twitter is abuzz with the news; it remains to be seen whether he’s still popular enough to make a difference or will regarded by the Ukrainians as another Quisling.

At this moment Zelenskiy’s local support admittedly seems to be sky high

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 02 Mar 2022 16:37

Zelenskiy support is perceived to be sky high due to carefully created media images of him taking selfies and running around in army fatigues. Not to mention the constant barrage of articles in western media lauding his leadership and being a role model.

The truth is probably in between.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 02 Mar 2022 16:48

Tanaji wrote:Zelenskiy support is perceived to be sky high due to carefully created media images of him taking selfies and running around in army fatigues. Not to mention the constant barrage of articles in western media lauding his leadership and being a role model.

The truth is probably in between.

https://mobile.twitter.com/futurebrain1 ... lRnDQ&s=19

Twitter thread has video clips from French TV in which a French-Ukrainian woman gives a rather different perspective on Zelenskyy.

You can hear the TV hosts muttering in consternation that her remarks don't reveal quite the heroic picture that Western media has been given lifafas to convey.

Atulya P · Post by **Atulya P** » 02 Mar 2022 16:52

Putin had spelled out the objectives as de-militarization and de-nazification of Ukr. To achieve these objectives, the next installed head of state needs to play a key role. Zelenskiy's sky high support can easily be a liberal info bubble, its been 8 year since the revolution and economy is not in a good shape. The only thing sky high seems to be the cost of living.

nam · Post by **nam** » 02 Mar 2022 17:01

I suppose small countries & China will take different lessons from this conflict.

Smaller countries will be wary of now planning off one big power against another.

From the Chinese perspective, they could take the argument that big powers don't allow neigbouring countries to become ground for adversary's treaty like NATO. They could justify this for an attack on us or Taiwan. They could be way of the sanctions, but will make sure they move their assets before any action.

The economic sanctions on China will be less severe given both US & Europe wants to make money out of China. If we manage to become an alternate source of the supply chain, then it will allow US & Europe to be hit with harder sanctions against Chinis.

Needless to say, none of these will come to aid physically. Arms may be provided, that's it.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 02 Mar 2022 17:56

A week is a long time in politics but let’s not kid ourselves about Zelenskiy’s popularity in Ukraine as of now. I emphasise the last three words.

Prior to the war his rating had indeed crashed. In October last year only 28 percent approved of him.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... ng-ukraine/

Since the war with Russia, well:

https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-t ... ave-surged

https://kyivindependent.com/uncategoriz ... -zelensky/

In fact I’d argue the other way and say that the reports of a new President being installed by Putin are psyops by the Ukrainians/ West to anger the Ukrainian people further. Guess what’s the source of these stories? I dug aroind and found out.

It was, and I’m quoting an online newspaper, “according to Ukrainska Pravda’s sources in Ukrainian intelligence” !

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 02 Mar 2022 18:24

Heavy sanctioning of Russia
->Other countries watch what US/West could do
-> Other countries start to protect resources & insource
-> New competing regional companies backed by local Govt financing

A new era of trade barriers , duties and tariffs are upon us.
Cost of living will increase.

nam · Post by **nam** » 02 Mar 2022 18:33

Russians have bombed the Malyshev Tank Factory.

The beggars on the west had given orders to this factory to upgrade their T80 in 2021..

Not to mention no more engines for their the uber...Al Khalid!

Their entire modern tank fleet is now without engines...

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1498893715129126916

rkirankr · Post by **rkirankr** » 02 Mar 2022 18:38

Neela wrote:Heavy sanctioning of Russia
->Other countries watch what US/West could do
-> Other countries start to protect resources & insource
-> New competing regional companies backed by local Govt financing

A new era of trade barriers , duties and tariffs are upon us.
Cost of living will increase.

India has to develop back up or fallback options from social media tools(however rudimentary), cloud infra,finance instruments etc. We should not be too worried about us sanctioned from sports bodies. We can have a SAARC olympics

However be prepared for loss of jobs, finance and exports and financial sector getting a hit are reality. As far as India is concerned, we have enough no-good forces within India who can create trouble.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Mar 2022 19:02

Rudradev wrote:
Tanaji wrote:Zelenskiy support is perceived to be sky high due to carefully created media images of him taking selfies and running around in army fatigues. Not to mention the constant barrage of articles in western media lauding his leadership and being a role model.

The truth is probably in between.
https://mobile.twitter.com/futurebrain1 ... lRnDQ&s=19

Twitter thread has video clips from French TV in which a French-Ukrainian woman gives a rather different perspective on Zelenskyy.

You can hear the TV hosts muttering in consternation that her remarks don't reveal quite the heroic picture that Western media has been given lifafas to convey.

Tulsi Gabard said the same thing about the Ukranian government being a 'democratic' government.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Mar 2022 19:10

later, of course, and as usual, the pakis claimed that their account had been hacked

the jehadi bhikaris can't even lie convincingly

‘Students already using Indian flag to escape from Ukraine, ask funds from Indian govt to pay our salaries’: Pakistani embassy tweets

Amid the ongoing war in Ukraine, while more than 2000 Pakistani nationals including 600 students are still stranded in Kyiv and other cities of Ukraine, the Pakistan Embassy in Algeria suggested that the country should ask for financial aid from India as it is failing to provide help to its nationals stranded in Ukraine.

“Embassies ordered to divert funds to Ukraine for evacuating Pakistani Nationals. Should we also start asking funds from India as Pakistan Nationals are using Indian flags to flee from Ukraine”, the Pakistan Embassy in Algeria tweeted. It also said that till date no Pakistani national was evacuated and nor did it have funds to pay salaries to its officials or to help Pakistani nationals stranded in Ukraine.

The embassy in Algeria stated that they have been asked by their government to divert funds so that students in Ukraine can be evacuated. They asserted that they do not have funds to even pay salaries to their staff members.

A lot of videos have surfaced on social media where Pakistani students are seen complaining that they are stranded in Ukraine and unable to get any help from their government. Earlier, news reports have surfaced highlighting that Pakistani students are using the Indian flag to escape from Ukraine, pretending to be Indian citizens.

Pakistan’s envoys to Ukraine and Poland have been seen saying that they doing their best to help the stranded students in Ukraine. As many countries, they are also asking the students to reach Poland for subsequent evacuation.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 02 Mar 2022 19:53

https://twitter.com/Chaiti/status/1498997299414204418

Ukranian nazis using Indian students as human shields in Kharkiv -- these US/EU-supported ukrainian nazi vermin need to be wiped out by Russia. But then again that is their goal --- to get Indian students killed and then show the finger to India and claim that is India's reward for supporting Russia.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 02 Mar 2022 20:34

srikandan wrote:https://twitter.com/Chaiti/status/1498997299414204418

Ukranian nazis using Indian students as human shields in Kharkiv -- these US/EU-supported ukrainian nazi vermin need to be wiped out by Russia. But then again that is their goal --- to get Indian students killed and then show the finger to India and claim that is India's reward for supporting Russia.

Most of the Ukrainians appearing on TV programs make wild statements that have no basis in reality. I find it hard to believe these guys.

The Ukr ambassador in India seems also a schmuck....constantly trying to badger the GOI into supporting Ukr...at one point comparing the situation to "the Mughals invading the Rajputs". The GOI should send this moron back to Ukr on one of the Op Ganga flights so he can also be drafted and issued a Russian AK-47 to oppose the Russians like a real Rajput would.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 02 Mar 2022 20:38

Putin has made his two key objectives very clear, and is methodically going about it. It seems like he will look into the sanctions etc after this is over. The media narratives are just a side show.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 02 Mar 2022 21:05

On a lighter note, there is a BREAKING NEWS, fauxy at its best

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 02 Mar 2022 21:06

At this point there are only 3 options for Zelensky

1. Surrender and live under Russia like Belarus
2. Fight on and make this an Afghanistan for Russia (lots of destruction for Ukraine before it starts to bite for russia)
3. Hope for a NATO intervention ( this is what he is hoping for but this means ww3 )

NATO is hoping he will take option # 2

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Mar 2022 21:14

Okra cannot become Belarus, but Russia seems to be destroying Soviet era based defense factories. I guess the best thing that can happen is Ukraine agrees to Neutrality and world recognize Crimea as part of Russia and Russians withdraw. I doubt US and British fighting till the last Ukrainian will allow it though

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Mar 2022 21:21

greatde · Post by **greatde** » 02 Mar 2022 21:34

Seems Putin is going to face similar issues Modi 2004-2014. Anybody in the West who refuses to criticize or denounce him, will be ousted and those anti people/organizations will be rewarded. And its already happening now.

Putin really made this battle all about himself, and is bigger than Russia itself. It's really surprising and dangerous strategy.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 02 Mar 2022 21:59

Last 24 hours has seen increase Russian artillery and missile strikes within cities with commensurate scale of destruction. The Russians have ramped it up a little.

williams · Post by **williams** » 02 Mar 2022 22:05

rkirankr wrote:
Neela wrote:Heavy sanctioning of Russia
->Other countries watch what US/West could do
-> Other countries start to protect resources & insource
-> New competing regional companies backed by local Govt financing

A new era of trade barriers , duties and tariffs are upon us.
Cost of living will increase.
India has to develop back up or fallback options from social media tools(however rudimentary), cloud infra,finance instruments etc. We should not be too worried about us sanctioned from sports bodies. We can have a SAARC olympics However be prepared for loss of jobs, finance and exports and financial sector getting a hit are reality. As far as India is concerned, we have enough no-good forces within India who can create trouble.

Will India ever do what Russia did? I mean a full-fledged invasion. We are eternally defensive and may fight only when provoked or literally invaded. I guess we have managed most other scenarios pretty well. Article 370 revocation is a good example.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 02 Mar 2022 22:09

this is expected. Russia will slowly ramp up and they have not gotten into heavy weapons yet. this has a long way to go. domestic MIC and fuel and food is all you need for the country to hunker down - and russia has all this. and that is the real reason west fears russia. no other country has this. geopolitical roti/kapda/makaan i guess.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 02 Mar 2022 22:19

There are 2 wars going on simultaneously. One is a military war being prosecuted in Ukraine by Russia. And the second is an all out economic war being prosecuted by the West on Russia. And both wars are having a debilitating effect on the respective targets. Ukraine is being steadily overrun and Russia is definitely being impacted by the economic sanctions. Just consider the practical effects of the economic war:

Virtually all civilian aircraft operated by Russian airlines are either Boeing or Airbus. And both Boeing and Airbus have stopped all servicing and parts supplies to Russia. Also virtually all Boeing and Airbus planes in Russia are leased via Western leasing companies which will be impacted. Also those Russian aircraft need insurance to fly into any foreign jurisdiction. So it looks like in 2-3 weeks, Russian planes, other than a few Antonovs and Illuyshins will be grounded.

The world's three largest shipping lines, Maersk, MSC & CMA CGM have stopped taking any bookings to and from Russian ports.

Stock markets in Moscow are shut indefinitely.

No foreign exchange available in Russia. All outbound private foreign exchange transfers have been stopped.

Russian contacts will continue with the Middle East for now, China and India but other than China, Russia's trade with these other countries is very small so Russia is being choked off economically.

It will be interesting to see when and how Russia counters the economic war that it is facing. I would suspect, not until it achieves it's military objectives in Ukraine.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 02 Mar 2022 22:25

For a bunch of guys who where yelling at Russia for "weaponising NS2", US/EU are certainly weaponizing every possible financial and economic instrument that Russia bought into since 1991. No reason why the same won't be done to India if India gets dependent on the west in those sectors.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 02 Mar 2022 22:43

A lesson from this: everything can be weaponised.

Indus water
Brahmaputra River.

India should just kick off a sanction proof work without delay. It can be under atmanirbhar but something with real energy and urgency.

Globalisation is dead!

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 02 Mar 2022 22:48

In terms of their statements (content and style) what’s common to the actions of the Ukrainian President, the Ukrainian Ambassador to the UN (Sergiy Kyslytsya) and their ambassador to India?

I just watched Kyslytsya holding the UN’s Charter (booklet) in his hands while making a point. I also thought of his previous statements.

Then I recalled President Zelenskiy’s recent utterances, interviews and commentaries.

Finally the Mughal / Rajput statement made by the UK ambassador to India.

It struck me - they all have different messaging but the same theme! Emotional, playing to exactly what they think the audience wants/ can resonate. Hence to EU leaders Zelenskiy speaks of the European ideal (Western European ideal I may add) and brave Ukraine as a frontline state against bad Russia. The UN ambassador challenges, cajoles and pushes the UN in a ‘we are the world’ theme. Our desi guest speaks of Mughal and Rajputs.

Oldest salesman technique - don’t talk of what you want, talk about what resonates with the customer.

Their style replaces the usual boring drone of the career diplomat with their broad themes. They’ve thought this out to a tee. It’s simple but I think there are also lessons here.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 02 Mar 2022 22:51

West has got what they wanted. Russia under sanctions. Sacrificial lamb was Ukraine.

There is no way west will remove these sanctions. So, I'm curious how Putin is going to wriggle out of this sanctions.

kit · Post by **kit** » 02 Mar 2022 22:57

vinod wrote:West has got what they wanted. Russia under sanctions. Sacrificial lamb was Ukraine.

There is no way west will remove these sanctions. So, I'm curious how Putin is going to wriggle out of this sanctions.

Oil is not under sanctions.. Russia will still survive and a new trading system will come online . Matter of time

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 02 Mar 2022 22:57

I don't believe India needs to dhoti-shiver at the current developments when we can fill various vacuums created during such times, if we think ahead as to where all this anglo-saxon war mongering will lead to, and what it takes to stay out of their neo-nazi plans for blonde, white christian countries to dominate the planet.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 02 Mar 2022 23:02

The UN General Assembly adopted a resolution demanding that Russia stop the use of force in Ukraine and withdraw its troops. This is a historic decision

https://www.reuters.com/world/un-genera ... 022-03-02/

141 states voted in favor, 5 against (Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea, Eritrea), 35 abstained (among them China, India, South Africa, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Cuba, Central African Republic).

On the global stage Russia is nearly alone on this issue, even with the abstentions.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 02 Mar 2022 23:02

Warning: This will melt you
https://twitter.com/Gen_VKSingh/status/ ... fqlirNDXmw
Hope all our fellow countrymen make it back home safe and sound
Jai Hind

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 02 Mar 2022 23:04

UN Censure is just a circus it looks like, seeing as the UNGA has no power to actually affect any outcomes -- useless like the UN itself.

American Patriot C. Rajamohan chimes in, and to this POS was Shri KS's protege.

https://indianexpress.com/article/opini ... t-7795200/

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 02 Mar 2022 23:11

MeshaVishwas wrote:Warning: This will melt you
https://twitter.com/Gen_VKSingh/status/ ... fqlirNDXmw
Hope all our fellow countrymen make it back home safe and sound
Jai Hind

Absolutely unbelievable. Room for dog but none for peacwallahs from neighbouring country!

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 02 Mar 2022 23:17

Poor dog has no idea what is in store for him. India is no place for Huskies and malamutes.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 02 Mar 2022 23:17

Ukraine has been led down the garden path. This will not end well for them.

I have a feeling that PRC will help Russia bypass Swift.

The rest is meaningless

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 02 Mar 2022 23:19

India should make an effort to be part of all possible financial systems including one that is native. Obvious that any such system will force countries to cooperate as multiple SWIFT like systems is a wonderful thing for drug lords and criminal mafia, and every rich country out there will speak against this kind of laundering while ensuring that only the flows that hurt them are stopped. Being part of multiple systems allows better policing of transactions, if such a thing is possible.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 02 Mar 2022 23:21

Baikul wrote:The UN General Assembly adopted a resolution demanding that Russia stop the use of force in Ukraine and withdraw its troops. This is a historic decision

https://www.reuters.com/world/un-genera ... 022-03-02/

141 states voted in favor, 5 against (Russia, Belarus, Syria, North Korea, Eritrea), 35 abstained (among them China, India, South Africa, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Cuba, Central African Republic).

On the global stage Russia is nearly alone on this issue, even with the abstentions.

Reminds me of another such vote,

https://www.un.org/press/en/2019/ga12146.doc.htm

General Assembly Welcomes International Court of Justice Opinion on Chagos Archipelago, Adopts Text Calling for Mauritius’ Complete Decolonization

"The General Assembly adopted a resolution today welcoming a 25 February 2019 International Court of Justice advisory opinion on the legal consequences of separating the Chagos Archipelago from Mauritius in 1965, demanding that the United Kingdom unconditionally withdraw its colonial administration from the area within six months.

By a recorded vote of 116 in favour, to 6 against (Australia, Hungary, Israel, Maldives, United Kingdom, United States), with 56 abstentions, the Assembly affirmed that doing so — in accordance with the advisory opinion — would enable Mauritius to complete the decolonization of its territory as soon as possible."

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 02 Mar 2022 23:30

Pretending that UN can do anything for India at this or any point in time is a losing game -- we do not have a veto. We should not give a fig about the UN expect for ensuring it does not do anything to screw with India as it often does, most recently with the US-lead vote to blame India for global warming, and it was only Russia that vetoed the bill, not China, France, US or UK.