Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 16 Mar 2022 12:50

And in other news the US has reacted to Indian Oil buying Russian oil

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wh ... reappshare

Apparently India needs to think where it stands

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 16 Mar 2022 13:10

Baikul wrote:Ukraine is claiming another Russian general officer killed, making it the fourth since the war began. He is named as Major General Oleg Yurevich Mitiaev of the 150th Rifle Div*

Edit - just noting for perspective that a Russian Major General is the equivalent of a Brigadier of the Indian Army

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ ... -mariupol/

*Random factoid for war nerds - it was the 150th division that raised that famous flag over the Reichstag In Berlin near the end of World War Two. And the man who raised it was - Ukrainian!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_a ... _Reichstag

He was a Soviet.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 16 Mar 2022 13:28

Tanaji wrote:And in other news the US has reacted to Indian Oil buying Russian oil

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wh ... reappshare

Apparently India needs to think where it stands

We stood our own ground during the first cold war. We are not going to give up on our interests during the second cold war.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 16 Mar 2022 14:20

rsingh wrote:
Baikul wrote:Ukraine is claiming another Russian general officer killed, making it the fourth since the war began. He is named as Major General Oleg Yurevich Mitiaev of the 150th Rifle Div*

Edit - just noting for perspective that a Russian Major General is the equivalent of a Brigadier of the Indian Army

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_ ... -mariupol/

*Random factoid for war nerds - it was the 150th division that raised that famous flag over the Reichstag In Berlin near the end of World War Two. And the man who raised it was - Ukrainian!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_a ... _Reichstag
He was a Soviet.

Yes given that it was USSR, but then the USSR had many nationalities. Whatever the name on the tin, he was Ukrainian, and I quote from the below wiki link:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksey_Kovalev

“Born 1926, Kyiv, Ukraine”

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 16 Mar 2022 18:24

Prjident bye-then passed a $13.6 gazillion aid package for Ukies. Reading this two and half page documents, indicates it is an aid package for all but Ukies.

https://appropriations.house.gov/sites/ ... ummary.pdf

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 16 Mar 2022 18:49

Are there really neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine? Well, yes — but it's a long story

https://www.salon.com/2022/03/10/are-th ... ong-story/

War is the greatest evil: Russia was baited into this crime — but that's no excuse

https://www.salon.com/2022/03/01/is-the ... no-excuse/

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 16 Mar 2022 19:15

Edward N. Luttwak:

An option Putin lacks is to flatten Kiev as the allies flattened German cities in 1944/45 (after years of trying). Yes but the allies could send 2,000+ heavy bombers to deliver 20,000+ tons of bombs within 24 hours, with a repeat the next day. The Russian bomber force is small.
https://twitter.com/ELuttwak/status/150 ... 9VY_g&s=19

Putin has check-mated himself: his armor-mechanized forces cannot enter Kiev without suffering huge casualties, and neither can they stay outside without being attacked by drones and AT missiles. In the meantime, Russia is losing its best people: Izabella Tabarovsky in Tablet
https://twitter.com/ELuttwak/status/150 ... UyNug&s=19

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 16 Mar 2022 20:27

Tanaji wrote:And in other news the US has reacted to Indian Oil buying Russian oil
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wh ... reappshare
Apparently India needs to think where it stands

Secretly they should be relieved that Russian oil is still in the market. Had India rejected this offer and bid in the open market, it would have driven prices higher since oil is fungible, after all. This would have hurt every net consumer.

Instead by buying Russian oil on the cheap Russia loses because it cannot fully monetize its product and consumers gain because a fraction of the demand is diverted. This helps the US & Europe as much as it helps us.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 16 Mar 2022 20:44

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... n-ukraine/

Putin may have check-mated himself, but Bythen admin has walked into this war without making alternate arrangements for oil, and is now scrambling. That must seem very smart to all the pro-western cabal trying to snare India into a Russia-like situation long-term. For such a thing to work, India has to engage US to the point, where disengaging will ruin India's economy, with no credible alternatives to rely on, and India is well up this path already.

Russia would not be in this position if it had not trusted the USA and NATO to keep their word on the treaties they signed. It is not just the Chinese who renege on treaties after signing them, if they can do so without consequences, something that the anglo-saxon cabal has done for centuries.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 16 Mar 2022 20:57

Manish_Sharma wrote:Edward N. Luttwak:

An option Putin lacks is to flatten Kiev as the allies flattened German cities in 1944/45 (after years of trying). Yes but the allies could send 2,000+ heavy bombers to deliver 20,000+ tons of bombs within 24 hours, with a repeat the next day. The Russian bomber force is small.
https://twitter.com/ELuttwak/status/150 ... 9VY_g&s=19

Putin has check-mated himself: his armor-mechanized forces cannot enter Kiev without suffering huge casualties, and neither can they stay outside without being attacked by drones and AT missiles. In the meantime, Russia is losing its best people: Izabella Tabarovsky in Tablet
https://twitter.com/ELuttwak/status/150 ... UyNug&s=19

In the battle for Berlin in 1945, the Red army fired a higher tonnage of Artillery shells into Berlin, in 1 week, than Allied Bombers had done in
the previous 2 years. However, they do not need to flatten Kiev, just cut off its supplies.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Mar 2022 21:00

^So the Russians have checkmated themselves. Somebody inform zelensky before he accepts Russia’s terms to cease combat.

MSM opinion is as nuanced as a crowd at a prize fight.

If the MSM reported things like the insurgency in Corsica and the political prisoners held there by France, it would help their credibility.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Mar 2022 21:01

^absolutely the artillery fire was unspeakable.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 16 Mar 2022 21:02

Tanaji wrote:And in other news the US has reacted to Indian Oil buying Russian oil

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wh ... reappshare

Apparently India needs to think where it stands

The arrogance is unbelievable, especially coming from the Americans after Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, the horrors of ISIS, and all the other mayhem and carnage they unleashed.

Seriously, f*ck these people. These are not allies; they're frenemies who barely tolerate our existence even now, when they need us the most. How will the Americans treat us after they've broken Russia? They'll make an accomodation with the Chinese and turn on us, that's how.

John · Post by **John** » 16 Mar 2022 21:04

Vasiyl Bykov is reportedly still operational which Ukr had reported hit previously

https://twitter.com/rexmanov/status/150 ... 04768?s=21

Here is view of Kherson airport after the hit, shot by a Russian officer (surprised they recorded it) damage seems to be far extensive than what is seen in SAT images

https://twitter.com/sputnikato/status/1 ... 00704?s=21

Putin may have check-mated himself, but Bythen admin has walked into this war without making alternate arrangements for oil, and is now scrambling.

Not sure what you mean US imports less than 9% of Oil in 2019 with most of it from Canada and with oil prices this high lot of oil production via fracking is restarting but labor shortages are slowing that down a little bit.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 16 Mar 2022 21:19

John: Not sure what you mean US imports less than 9% of Oil in 2019 with most of it from Canada and with oil prices this high lot of oil production via fracking is restarting but labor shortages are slowing that down a little bit.

I am saying that walked into the war without making alternate arrangements and are now scrambling to deal with Maduro of Venezuela. Has nothing to do with how much oil US is importing from Russia.

So we have all these geniuses in Washington DC deciding the future of this planet, and they could not figure out there would be oil shocks and take precautions before starting this conflict with Russia? Inspires a lot of confidence in american genius and wisdom.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 16 Mar 2022 21:20

Y.Kanan: How will the Americans treat us after they've broken Russia? They'll make an accomodation with the Chinese and turn on us, that's how.

Absolutely. That is the game.

bala · Post by **bala** » 16 Mar 2022 21:35

Oil prices are dictated by the incremental demand in the world. X gallons are produced but Y gallons are consumed and the difference Y-X dictates the price of crude. If you shut out Russia then incremental is more and hence prices are more. The US can manage their needs (which is the highest in the world) by pipeline from Canada and Fracking. However Joker Xiden stopped pipelines and fracking and this has driven price of gasoline at the pump from around $3 during Trump Era to now hovering at $5.5 to $6 per gallon in the US (double). This is causing inflation all across the US economy. The Euros are royally screwed in the bargain. All the solar / wind energy is not going to meet demand for current vehicles and electric is going to take several years to make any dent.

bala · Post by **bala** » 16 Mar 2022 21:45

srikandan wrote:
Y.Kanan: How will the Americans treat us after they've broken Russia? They'll make an accomodation with the Chinese and turn on us, that's how.
Absolutely. That is the game.

G2 (US and China) is the current threat in the world and Russia has put a brake on the plans. However, Russia is effectively strengthened China and it is matter of time when G2 will rear its ugly head once again. All the Quad stuff is getting India behind the US. Can India be independent and ask for G3 instead, that all depends on economic growth and military might, which is a tall order. Atmanirbhar Bharat is the only way forward.

Kedar · Post by **Kedar** » 16 Mar 2022 22:44

srikandan wrote:
Y.Kanan: How will the Americans treat us after they've broken Russia? They'll make an accomodation with the Chinese and turn on us, that's how.
Absolutely. That is the game.

None other than Henry Kissinger once said, "To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal".

To them non-White, non-Judeo Christians are at a much lower rung. The moment the work is done will be tossed like a used condom.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 16 Mar 2022 22:50

https://twitter.com/tanvi_madan/status/ ... nb1t8pAAAA

pakis of Indian Origin in the USA playing down G2 as if it is a figment of Indian imagination. Nice gaslighting by this coconut. this one seems to be the replacement for Stephen Cohen in Brookings. Glad that racist b#@%$d is dead.

Meanwhile, something different for a change from the pro-western cr@p we are being inundated with.

Nitin Gokhale discussing the russian POV:

https://twitter.com/StratNewsGlobal/sta ... Oxwd8pAAAA

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 16 Mar 2022 23:22

https://indianexpress.com/article/world ... y-7820166/

"world court" it seems. Along the lines of "international community". "World Kangaroo Court" is the correct title here.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 16 Mar 2022 23:29

Nazanin Ratcliffe flies back to UK following her release by Eyeran. Which means Byedenwa has signalled Eyeran that the tel mandi is open. Very good they are part of evel axis one day and next they have tel carpet welcome. So much for stopping us from dealing with Eyeran and more pressure on us to not buy from Vlad ... meanwhile Eleven and Bakis are free to do as they please?

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 16 Mar 2022 23:33

Next step here is to wink at Iran acquiring nuclear weapons -- Biden's Iran deal is to enable Iran to escalate war with Yemen/KSA. And then pretend it was unavoidable -- the stage is being set for conflict escalation in West Asia.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 16 Mar 2022 23:41

srikandan wrote:Next step here is to wink at Iran acquiring nuclear weapons -- Biden's Iran deal is to enable Iran to escalate war with Yemen/KSA. And then pretend it was unavoidable -- the stage is being set for conflict escalation in West Asia.

Yes, middle east seems the next battle zone.

US just announced a big aid package to Yemen. Probably a reaction to the snub by Saudi and talk of accepting yuan.

https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1 ... IzSzw&s=19

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 16 Mar 2022 23:55

US just announced a big aid package to Yemen. Probably a reaction to the snub by Saudi and talk of accepting yuan.

KSA has been moving away from the US after the abrahamic accords (KSA, UAE, israel), which is not recognized by the US, since Trump spearheaded that accord. This Biden move targets both Israel and KSA.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 17 Mar 2022 01:25

Considering the way Zelensky is being lionised in the media, I bet that he will get nominated for Times man of the year or Nobel peace prize.

We have said it here first… lets see

John · Post by **John** » 17 Mar 2022 01:44

Good article to read unf behind a paywall didn't even know about the fighting in Voznesensk.

"A Ukrainian Town Deals Russia One of the War’s Most Decisive Routs"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-ru ... lewebshare

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 17 Mar 2022 01:49

USA clearly needs to motivate Ukrainians to go die, else the war is over, so they present this picture of Russian forces about to collapse, or russian soldiers not having food to eat, even if it is detached from reality. Keeping the morale of Ukrainian army is clearly important, given that they are fighting NATO's war. When the "taliban" fought USSR in Afghanisthan, USA just had to write textbooks for Afghans exhorting jihad so that they would go Jihad on the USA's behalf. Same playbook, different story.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 17 Mar 2022 02:03

99% of John's major posts have turned out to be fake news. When are you going to find the news about Macron giving putin a better deal. You said you were going to find an article and I still have not heard from you

Sure, WSj, WAPO are the harbingers or truth and sitting on the board of assigning morality.

Do you really think the Russians are gonna give up because of the war's 'most decisive routs'. hahah.

Their calculation is simple, if ukraine with 7 years of training can inflict X amt of damage, Ukraine with 30 years of training and weapons flow, could lead to 20X losses and breakup of Russia.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 17 Mar 2022 02:14

Steep Russian climbdown has begun.
From "total denazification and demilitarization" to just a guarantee of neutrality without demilitarization or regime change.

Ukraine is cleverly asking for the same security guarantees that NATO membership would have given it.
This would provide it with equivalent benefits but without the extra burden that steep military expenditure currently imposes on it.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 17 Mar 2022 02:15

dnivas wrote:99% of John's major posts have turned out to be fake news.

I think it's really the other way around. Please avoid posting rumors and 'news' from dubious sites.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 17 Mar 2022 02:31

John wrote:Good article to read unf behind a paywall didn't even know about the fighting in Voznesensk.

"A Ukrainian Town Deals Russia One of the War’s Most Decisive Routs"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-ru ... lewebshare

Some details:

Judging from the destroyed and abandoned armor, Ukrainian forces, which comprised local volunteers and the professional military, eliminated most of a Russian battalion tactical group on March 2 and 3.

The Ukrainian defenders’ performance against a much-better-armed enemy in an overwhelmingly Russian-speaking region was successful in part because of widespread popular support for the Ukrainian cause—one reason the Russian invasion across the country has failed to achieve its principal goals so far. Ukraine on Wednesday said it was launching a counteroffensive on several fronts.

Russian survivors of the Voznesensk battle left behind nearly 30 of their 43 vehicles—tanks, armored personnel carriers, multiple-rocket launchers, trucks—as well as a downed Mi-24 attack helicopter, according to Ukrainian officials in the city. The helicopter’s remnants and some pieces of burned-out Russian armor were still scattered around Voznesensk on Tuesday.
Russian forces retreated more than 40 miles to the southeast, where other Ukrainian units have continued pounding them. Some dispersed in nearby forests, where local officials said 10 soldiers have been captured.

Ukrainian officers estimated that some 100 Russian troops died in Voznesensk, including those whose bodies were taken by retreating Russian troops or burned inside carbonized vehicles. As of Tuesday, 11 dead Russian soldiers were in the railway car turned morgue, with search parties looking for other bodies in nearby forests. Villagers buried some others.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Mar 2022 02:38

SwamyG wrote:
vijayk wrote:
Modi-Zelensky were supposed to talk
Putin-Modi talked.

Not sure if all three talked. Would be great if true.
Modi spoke to Putin on Feb 24th/25th March 2nd and March 7th. Such high level talks cannot be just for evacuation. Modi spoke to Zelensky twice (Feb 26th & March 7th).

Putin-Zelensky have a war going on, they are too preoccupied to worry about some logistics over evacuation. Putin spoke to Modi for 50mns recently, Zelensky spoke to Modi for 35 mns.

My speculation is that Modi is playing an arbiter or interlocutor role, along with others. Macron has spoken to Putin 4 times since war started, 11 times in the last month. France never tows the line of Unkil blindly. Putin has spoken to Chinese, Turkish and Israeli leaders.

India is just not an onlooker. I see these talks under such a context. Also by abataining India has forced the World to accept it is a power in its own light. India abstaining from something in 2022 is different from say what it did several decades ago.

Ok. My speculation has found some traction.

https://twitter.com/sidhant/status/1504 ... FLWUg&s=19

Just in: Prime Minister Modi and President Macron are among the few leaders who have had regular contact with the leaders of Russia & Ukraine & continue to maintain an open channel of communication with them, says Indian foreign secretary @harshvshringla

Also more details: https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/in ... y-shringla

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 17 Mar 2022 02:39

MajuJ: I think it's really the other way around. Please avoid posting rumors and 'news' from dubious sites.

{Deleted personal references}

What's dubious is flooding only the US/NATO POV on this thread to the exclusion of all other POVs. That makes for a great echo chamber.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 17 Mar 2022 02:51

ManuJ wrote:Steep Russian climbdown has begun.
From "total denazification and demilitarization" to just a guarantee of neutrality without demilitarization or regime change.

Ukraine is cleverly asking for the same security guarantees that NATO membership would have given it.
This would provide it with equivalent benefits but without the extra burden that steep military expenditure currently imposes on it.

I think it is a negotiation tactic. Russians know Americans won't agree to a cease fire and would push for Ukrainians to fight further. I would still think few more weeks of fighting before Ukraine throws in the towel ignoring US. Till they cast aside US advice, the war will continue. Russia knows that too well. Meanwhile, they have to clear the area with minimal civilian deaths and infrastructure damage. Tough ask.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 17 Mar 2022 03:16

srikandan wrote:
MajuJ: I think it's really the other way around. Please avoid posting rumors and 'news' from dubious sites.
And who determines what's dubious, you and your american buddies?

What's dubious is flooding only the US/NATO POV on this thread to the exclusion of all other POVs. That makes for a great echo chamber.

By all accounts, Russian personnel and material losses have been shocking. Yes, every reasonable person knew it was going to be nasty and the Ukrainians are hiding their losses, but Russian losses are not sustainable for morale. What I don’t understand is why the Russians didn’t lay various cities to waste early on.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 17 Mar 2022 03:25

The kherson attack must be very morale boosting for Ukrainians. How can you lose so many helicopters and trucks on the ground? Why are they not doing a good job of protecting their forward bases?

Ukrainians are doing hit and run but picking very juicy high value targets.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 17 Mar 2022 03:28

Mort Walker: What I don’t understand is why the Russians didn’t lay various cities to waste early on.

Going by the areas they attacking, it looks like they are focussing on cutting off Ukraine's access to the Black Sea ports, so if/when they capture Odessa upto moldovian border, there is no reason for them to undertake the nasty job of governing western ukrainians, given the immense mutual loathing. But I cannot see how this is a long-term solution for Russia.

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 17 Mar 2022 03:51

Ukraine war: Russia attacks theatre sheltering civilians, Mariupol says

Russian forces dropped a bomb on a theatre where civilians were being sheltered in the besieged city of Mariupol, local officials say.

Deputy Mayor Sergei Orlov told the BBC between 1,000 and 1,200 people had sought refuge in the building. The number of casualties was still unknown.

The BBC could not independently verify the information.

Russia's airstrikes and shells have previously hit a maternity hospital, a church and apartment towers.

Mariupol's city council said in a statement that Russian forces "deliberately and cynically destroyed" the theatre, saying a "plane dropped a bomb on a building where hundreds of peaceful Mariupol residents were hiding".

The statement said the scale of the attack was still not clear because the city continued to be shelled. A picture released by the city council, and verified by the BBC, showed smoke billowing from the building, with the façade totally collapsed.

Ukraine's foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba said this was "another horrendous war crime in Mariupol" and that "Russians could not have not known this was a civilian shelter".

The BBC had been told that many children and elderly people were sheltering inside, and that conditions were quickly deteriorating.

The US company Maxar released satellite pictures taken on 14 March which it said showed the word "children" had been written in Russian on the pavement outside the building.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 17 Mar 2022 03:52

vinod wrote:The kherson attack must be very morale boosting for Ukrainians. How can you lose so many helicopters and trucks on the ground? Why are they not doing a good job of protecting their forward bases?

Ukrainians are doing hit and run but picking very juicy high value targets.

The Ukrainians by displaying Russian POWs are violating Geneva Conventions. Then displaying dead bodies on SM and TV shows unprofessional military, but backed up by the US and EU.

Surely the Russians know that real-time COMINT and SIGINT is being coordinated with embedded US/NATO operatives within Ukraine. This “special” operation looks increasingly incompetent.