Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

[Baikul]

Anna News (pro Russian channel) is reporting that Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet Captain of the First Rank Andrey Paliy has died in the battle for Mariupol.

Captain of the First Rank is supposed to be the equivalent of Captain rank in the Indian Navy. This is the highest ranked Russian Naval officer lost so far. The Russian Army has lost 5 general officers.

[skumar]

Ukraine claims 15000 Russian dead, which is promptly reported by the BBC without fact checking.

15000 dead should mean 60,000 wounded badly enough to be combat ineffective. Another 15,000 POW, since the Ukies are offering large amounts
of NATOs unlimited money for conscripts to defect.

The Russian attacking force has been roughly 100,000 men (120 battalions of approx 800 men each), with roughly the same amount in rear areas.
So 90% casualties (or 50% if you tweak the numbers). At this rate, the Ukrainian army should occupy Moscow next week, when the Russian army
ceases to exist.

Zelenskyy has been threatening that Russia will suffer for generations.

Putin wil not get into a meeting with Zelenskyy unless he is sure he will get Crimea and concessions on DPR and LPR in addition to NATO issue which Zelenskyy has conceded already.

On DPR and LPR, I hope both parties agrees to a compromise like a referendum in a year. Every day of this war is painful and unnecessary.

[skumar]

One interesting aside is the Russian tolerance of weapons being supplied to the Ukrainians; they have not raised any noise about it.

It is telling - the Russians probably believe it will not make a difference to the situation on the ground.

That’s the thing. It is actually making a significant difference on the ground. ATGMs such as Javelin and NLAW, the Bayraktar drone, and the surface to air Stinger are believed to be among key reasons the Ukrainians have disrupted the Russian assault for so long. And taken out so much of their armour and other equipment. In fact the Javelin missile is referred to as Saint Javelin, and there’s a song about the Bayraktar drone- such is the confidence of the Ukrainians in these two weapon platforms.

This has been repeatedly cited, some examples:

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business ... ore-brutal

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60774098

I think there’s a line between providing offensive and defensive weapons that the west is treading (and yes one can argue on definitions of offensive / defensive).

As opposed to these arguably defensive weapons, Russians reacted more strongly to possible supply of fighter aircraft to Ukraine, while the west has backed off.

This brings to mind a similar question - why did the erstwhile Soviets not respond more vehemently to the supply of Stingers in Afghanistan, if they were so successful.

"Making a difference" means towards the end result - that is the only thing that counts. Have the Javelins destroyed some Russian armour? Yes.

Will they delay Russian advances? Probably Yes. WIll they or any other weapons provided by NATO help Ukraine pushback Russia? No.

[Baikul]

That’s the thing. It is actually making a significant difference on the ground. ATGMs such as Javelin and NLAW, the Bayraktar drone, and the surface to air Stinger are believed to be among key reasons the Ukrainians have disrupted the Russian assault for so long. And taken out so much of their armour and other equipment. In fact the Javelin missile is referred to as Saint Javelin, and there’s a song about the Bayraktar drone- such is the confidence of the Ukrainians in these two weapon platforms.

This has been repeatedly cited, some examples:

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business ... ore-brutal

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60774098

I think there’s a line between providing offensive and defensive weapons that the west is treading (and yes one can argue on definitions of offensive / defensive).

As opposed to these arguably defensive weapons, Russians reacted more strongly to possible supply of fighter aircraft to Ukraine, while the west has backed off.

This brings to mind a similar question - why did the erstwhile Soviets not respond more vehemently to the supply of Stingers in Afghanistan, if they were so successful.

"Making a difference" means towards the end result - that is the only thing that counts. Have the Javelins destroyed some Russian armour? Yes.

Will they delay Russian advances? Probably Yes. WIll they or any other weapons provided by NATO help Ukraine pushback Russia? No.

I for one have never argued (and I doubt there were many) that Ukraine would pushback enough to win the war - just that they make it more than difficult for Russia. Every indication is that these weapons have helped Ukraine do that. If the end result is a near Pyrrhic victory for Russia, or a stalemate, instead of a 3/4 day anticipated blitzkrieg kind of easy campaign, then I believe these weapons made a difference.

[skumar]

I for one have never argued (and I doubt there were many) that Ukraine would pushback enough to win the war - just that they make it more than difficult for Russia. Every indication is that these weapons have helped Ukraine do that. If the end result is a near Pyrrhic victory for Russia, or a stalemate, instead of a 3/4 day anticipated blitzkrieg kind of easy campaign, then I believe these weapons made a difference.

=> Javelins would not make a difference to the end result.

All these talks of a 3/4 day blitzkrieg are figments of imaginative propoganda. It is possible that the resistance was underestimated. Iraq was a one sided war with heavy bombing from Day 1 and took 3 weeks.

It would not be a Pyrrhic victory either if Russia meet her goals - no NATO even in dreams for Ukraine, cleaving of eastern territories with Russian majority and recognition of Crimea.

Other goals like a Super Russia are figments of aforesaid imagination. Putin is not stupid to believe that China, India, Israel and other countries cannot possibly continue to stay neutral on any further aggression.

[kit]

Putin wil not get into a meeting with Zelenskyy unless he is sure he will get Crimea and concessions on DPR and LPR in addition to NATO issue which Zelenskyy has conceded already.

On DPR and LPR, I hope both parties agrees to a compromise like a referendum in a year. Every day of this war is painful and unnecessary.

Putin is not going to meet Zelenskyy for the reason he has zero hold on the ground..Americans and the ultra nationalist groups in uke are running the whole show.. zsky is just a figure head to ramble around

[Deans]

Anna News (pro Russian channel) is reporting that Deputy Commander of the Black Sea Fleet Captain of the First Rank Andrey Paliy has died in the battle for Mariupol.

Captain of the First Rank is supposed to be the equivalent of Captain rank in the Indian Navy. This is the highest ranked Russian Naval officer lost so far. The Russian Army has lost 5 general officers.

Capt Paliy, was probably commanding a battalion of Naval infantry. There is a Naval infantry brigade in that sector. Their officers have navy ranks.

Russia has acknowledged the deaths of 4 Major generals ( a Russian Major General is the approx. IA equivalent of Brigadier).
Maj Gen Mityaev - CO 150th Motorised Rifle Division.
Maj Gen Kolesnikov - Chief of Staff, 29th Combined Arms Army
Maj Gen Gerasimov - Dy Commander 41st Combined Arms Army
Maj Gen Sukhovetsky - Also Dy Commander 41st Combined Arms Army (shot by Sniper).

[dnivas]

=> Javelins would not make a difference to the end result.

All these talks of a 3/4 day blitzkrieg are figments of imaginative propoganda. It is possible that the resistance was underestimated. Iraq was a one sided war with heavy bombing from Day 1 and took 3 weeks.

It would not be a Pyrrhic victory either if Russia meet her goals - no NATO even in dreams for Ukraine, cleaving of eastern territories with Russian majority and recognition of Crimea.

Other goals like a Super Russia are figments of aforesaid imagination. Putin is not stupid to believe that China, India, Israel and other countries cannot possibly continue to stay neutral on any further aggression.

I dont understand this talk of phyrric victory or that Russia's advance has been slow. When the civilization is at stake what is 10,000 , or what is 100,000 lives .

This is a fight until end goals are obtained like you said. It's so weird to desis using western templates of injuries when Russia state is at stake.

[williams]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... OGGIO.html

A more balanced view:

On the actual battlefield, the Russian offensive has undoubtedly slowed over the past week. But what is being described as a 'stalled' takeover may be the result of the Russians taking time to reorganize their forces and improve their logistics.

And yet, over three weeks into the war, Vladimir Putin remains president and the Russian war machine has not collapsed but in fact continues its plodding, imperfect, and messy advance.

Ukraine certainly has won the war on social media and in the press. This gives the average Western viewer the impression of a lopsided victory in favor of Ukraine.

Additionally, the Pentagon has taken the unprecedented step of conducting daily briefings on the war, even though the U.S. is not at war.

The Pentagon assessments often track closely with assessments given by the Ukrainian government.

These tactics play a role in the management of conflicts. But the West should not delude itself into believing that the Ukrainians will be saved by wishful thinking.

The truth on the ground is that Ukrainians are putting up stiff resistance everywhere in an effort to defend their cities and make the Russians pay for every inch of ground.

But short of the quick capture of Kyiv and the collapse of President Zelensky's government, the Russian assault on Ukraine was always going to take time.

Conventional warfare is a time, manpower and equipment consuming effort and quick victories are rare.

[KLNMurthy]

You think if India criticizes NATO and destroys its relationship with US and Europe today, then tomorrow, if and when we need a veto, Russia will guarantee that veto in entirely changed and unknowable circumstances?
Did it ever work like that in the past? What is your basis for such confidence?
Do you really think India doesn’t have a policy & strategy and is just acting out of sheer cowardice?

Let me start by clarifying that I hold Indian defense personnel in high esteem. We all owe them our gratitude.
Our bureaucrats on the other hand, I don't know. I have never been in their shoes.. but I have never understood their sheepish behavior on the world stage for last 70 years. And its not like it has worked wonder in our favor on world stage.. we are still treated as just another 3rd world country (their perception, if not reality).

If I were in a position to make a policy statement on this US/EU - Russia conflict, Sanctions etc , this is how I would frame it to the world in clear terms, without mincing words:

- India is a sovereign country and we follow the laws and constitution of India, and only India. We will not allow other countries to force their sanction policies on India, our companies, our traders or our population.
- We urge all parties to this conflict - Ukraine, Nato and Russia, to not escalate the situation any further. We must move on from old cold-war era institutions and towards multi-polar world, where India is ready to play a leading role in bringing peace and prosperity to world.
- We hear lot of talk about saving democracy. It is high time we bring Democracy to UN Security council. In the spirit of democracy, either India should be made a permanent member of UNSC.. or UNSC should be disbanded altogether because it is not serving the interest of billions of people world wide.
- India is ready to play a constructive role in bringing this conflict to an end, as soon as possible. We urge Nato to play a constructive role in this conflict.. rather than sending more weapons into the war zone. At the same time, we urge Russia to consider our sincere offer to mediate in this conflict to bring peace to the region.

That, more or less, is India’s official position. Stated many times. Without rudeness. And without Paki-style unrealistic public jumping Up-and-down about us mediating. Unofficially there is communication at top levels with all sides. Have you paid attention?

Defense services don’t make policy, so it’s irrelevant that you hold them in high esteem. It’s very easy to loudly proclaim that bureaucrats—meaning the EAM under Jaishankar which makes policy and the IFS officers who implement it—are cowards etc., perhaps because they may not fulfill one’s own personal fantasies of boldness; anyone can do that, if they are not actually responsible for looking after India’s well-being in a hostile world knowing what our capabilities & limitations are, and knowing what price Indian people will pay for facile decisions.

India’s foreign policy has been as finely-crafted and as well-executed as can be realistically expected. There is no room for bombast.

[yogeshkumar]

That, more or less, is India’s official position. Stated many times. Without rudeness. Have you paid attention?

Defense services don’t make policy, so it’s irrelevant that you hold them in high esteem. It’s very easy to loudly proclaim that bureaucrats—meaning the EAM under Jaishankar which makes policy and the IFS officers who implement it—are cowards etc., perhaps because they may don’t fulfill one’s own personal fantasies of boldness; anyone can do that, if they are not actually responsible for looking after India’s well-being in a hostile world knowing what our capabilities & limitations are, and knowing what price Indian people will pay for facile decisions.

India’s foreign policy has been as finely-crafted and as well-executed as can be realistically expected. There is no room for bombast.

With all due respect, I disagree. We need to take bold steps to break out of timidness - born out of centuries of enslavement, first by Mughals, and then by British.
"we need to stay quiet.. or else we will be sanctioned" is a self-defeatist mentality. Turkey is not following this, China is not following this, Most of Southern American countries are openly taking about Nato being aggressor here. South African government is clear about it. Not seeing how they are getting impacted by standing up for their own neutral stand in a very clear way.

This will be my last response on this back & forth. You seem to support timid response. I support bold response to showcase the emerging power of India..at a time when world will really have to pay attention to what India says. To miss this opportunity now .. will be a missed opportunity for next 10-15 years.

[Tanaji]

The other point is that Sevastopol is the main warm water port for Russia. There is no way Russia will back down unless the security of that port is guaranteed: simply holding on to Crimea is not enough. Russias view is that it should not be capable of threatening any terrirtory related to that port in any shape or form: be it by hit and run attacks, artillery or withholding water or supplies to the population. This means Crimea and access to it needs to be secure.

[IndraD]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/2 ... -on-russia
Germany seals gas deal with Qatar to reduce dependence on Russia

[IndraD]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/2 ... second-day
Russia says it used hypersonic missiles in Ukraine again, Moscow launches cruise and hypersonic missiles targeting Ukrainian military assets as it steps up its military offensive.

Konashenkov added that another attack by air-launched missiles hit a facility in Ovruch in the northern Zhytomyr region where foreign fighters and Ukrainian special forces were based.

[IndraD]

Russia Warns of Ukrainian Mines in Black Sea https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/ ... sea-a77002

mines that Ukrainians had deployed in the Black Sea against its "military operation" could drift as far as the Straits of Bosphorus and the Mediterranean Sea.
"After the start of the Russian special military operation, Ukrainian naval forces had deployed barriers of mines around the ports of Odessa, Ochakov, Chernomorsk and Yuzhny," the FSB security service said in a statement, adding that the mines were "dilapidated" and made in the first half of the 20th century.

[RaviB]

... The Russian Army has lost 5 general officers.

I was a bit curious about the large number of Generals from the Russian Army who have died, so I tried to see how many generals they have. The figures I found for 2008 were 1,107.

Following NATO's example, Moscow has decided to cut the ratio of officers to enlisted from the current 2-2.5 ratio to one for every fifteen enlisted personnel. The numbers involved are staggering. For example, the number of generals on active duty will be cut from 1,107 to 886 (primarily in logistics since much of it will be civilianized), and colonels from 25,665 to 9,114.

Source: Speech on military reforms by Medvedev in 2009
Medvedev Overplays the "Military Card" in Trying to Impress Obama; Strategic Insights, v. 8, issue 2 (April 2009) PDF

To sum up, if the military reforms of 2009 were successful, the Russians had 886 Generals before the Ukraine war, and 881 now, even if the Ukrainians are telling the complete truth.

It's surprising (or not at all surprising) that no news sources are mentioning the total number of Generals they have. Also at least two of those who have died are of the rank equivalent to Brigadier, in spite of the General in their name.

[ks_sachin]

... The Russian Army has lost 5 general officers.

I was a bit curious about the large number of Generals from the Russian Army who have died, so I tried to see how many generals they have. The figures I found for 2008 were 1,107.

Following NATO's example, Moscow has decided to cut the ratio of officers to enlisted from the current 2-2.5 ratio to one for every fifteen enlisted personnel. The numbers involved are staggering. For example, the number of generals on active duty will be cut from 1,107 to 886 (primarily in logistics since much of it will be civilianized), and colonels from 25,665 to 9,114.

Source: Speech on military reforms by Medvedev in 2009
Medvedev Overplays the "Military Card" in Trying to Impress Obama; Strategic Insights, v. 8, issue 2 (April 2009) PDF

To sum up, if the military reforms of 2009 were successful, the Russians had 886 Generals before the Ukraine war, and 881 now, even if the Ukrainians are telling the complete truth.

It's surprising (or not at all surprising) that no news sources are mentioning the total number of Generals they have. Also at least two of those who have died are of the rank equivalent to Brigadier, in spite of the General in their name.

RaviB numbers mean little without some context. Better to actually look at the org structure of the Russian Army down to a company / platoon level and then see whether this makes sense.

More importantly also look at the C&C approach in the Russian Armed forces and you will start to get an idea of a particular tooth to tail ration existing at least WRT to the senior officers.

An interesting way to arrive at this cultural difference vis a vis say a NATO airforce is by looking at the design of the Mig 29. Why were the Russian designers happy with such short legs on this fighter?

[vinod]

TB2 impact is very much over stated. The number of videos that are coming put are hardly any. Russians are taking out at least 1 a day. It remains to be seen how many remain.

The promised deluge of drones from US might make a difference if Ukrainians get all of them.

Russians are now stretched at their current capacity I.e. it will be slow progress from now onwards. The front line is pretty huge. They need to tidy up mariupol ASAP and redeploy those troops. Those Ukrainian entrenched positions in the east will be the next focus.

[vijayk]

"BIG: Amid Russia-Ukraine war, Russian President Putin has ..."

https://www.kooapp.com/koo/chhawchharia ... b874d100d9



TURKEY SAYS RUSSIA AND UKRAINE APPROACHING AGREEMENT ON 'CRITICAL ISSUES'

[yogeshkumar]

Slight tilt towards Russian stance. But still worth watching in terms of Indian and Chinese approach:

https://rumble.com/vxy461-sanctions-war ... stanc.html

"Sanctions war against Russia is failing. China and India harden their stance"

[Mort Walker]

"BIG: Amid Russia-Ukraine war, Russian President Putin has ..."

https://www.kooapp.com/koo/chhawchharia ... b874d100d9



TURKEY SAYS RUSSIA AND UKRAINE APPROACHING AGREEMENT ON 'CRITICAL ISSUES'

Seems like fake news. There have been talks, but neither Putin or Zelensky are going to ever meet up face to face.

[Mort Walker]

Sanctions will not work against Russia as the EU and US will continue to trade with a white Christian country. It’s as simple as that. Sanctions on non white non Christian countries are a different matter and none of the white countries will break those.

What is disturbing is that technology companies are weaponizing their services in Russia. That is something needs to be studied in detail. Today it is because of war, tomorrow it may be something entirely contrived and frivolous. There is a lesson in that for many countries including India.

[kit]

What is disturbing is that technology companies are weaponizing their services in Russia. That is something needs to be studied in detail. Today it is because of war, tomorrow it may be something entirely contrived and frivolous. There is a lesson in that for many countries including India.

I mean in a larger sense for all the information explosion, people are gullible , especially so in the west., let me just say this ., it is hard work to find what the f$@k is really happening., media is all for selling narratives !!

Wealth propagation and transfer is the real game make no mistake

Oil is ending and materials taking over., Nuclear power will come back in a big way.

The "collective west" other than the US needs a hard think at their choices, the US is not what it professes to be. It reminds me of an old western robber baron and his cahoots., all those prosperities they see is what they stole from others.

[anishns]

What is disturbing is that technology companies are weaponizing their services in Russia. That is something needs to be studied in detail. Today it is because of war, tomorrow it may be something entirely contrived and frivolous. There is a lesson in that for many countries including India.

If all goes south for India as far as SM is concerned....We will always have BRF

Hope its not hosted on AWS

[kit]

Of all the horrifying images i had seen., this one breaks my heart

A young Syrian girl mistaken a journalist's camera for a weapon and surrendered...She's terrified, her eyes are looking straight at you, her sleeve is torn




Because Syria is Arab Muslims, not blonde-haired and blue-eyed.

Therefore, it is impossible to arouse the empathy of Europeans and Americans.

[kit]

[kit]

[Cyrano]

With all due respect, I disagree. We need to take bold steps to break out of timidness - born out of centuries of enslavement, first by Mughals, and then by British.
"we need to stay quiet.. or else we will be sanctioned" is a self-defeatist mentality. Turkey is not following this, China is not following this, Most of Southern American countries are openly taking about Nato being aggressor here. South African government is clear about it. Not seeing how they are getting impacted by standing up for their own neutral stand in a very clear way.

Basically you are advocating that Indian diplomats and leaders should shout their mouth off like Erdogan or Imran and display bravado where none is needed. India is highly integrated with the rest of the world, and has wide ranging interdependencies with EU, US, ME, China and RoW. Modi and S Jaishankar are highly respected because they take a serious, self interest driven position on complex international matters with India's interests paramount, without needlessly engaging in pissing contests driven by some vague decolonial H&D emotional baggage.

If you have not read Jaishankar's book "The India Way", suggest you do.

[V_Raman]

EU thought that war is not possible in their continent anymore and overstepped in UKR. It is a loss of H&D for them and USA. So naturally they are trying to make the world think that way.

If nato attacks Russia then it will not be world war - Europe will be at war. That’s all. So EU won’t attack. NATO is what it is - a Europe focused military grouping which almost has no relevance in post colonial world order as EU does not have the stomach for war. They can’t get cannon fodder from colonial nations either - india will not send troops unfortunately.

Let them churn and fall from their grace. World has forever changed! They know Putin has pulled the rug from under and they are standing naked. Germany spending 100b more on military is irrelevant and for what? They cannot attack Russia even with investing 1 trillion in military! Putin is b***h slapping them and they can’t do anything about this!

Even India and pak conduct war and diplomacy better than this!!

[V_Raman]

I for one think the chances of conflict between india and China has come down considerably after this. India pak as well. We are entering a new era of peace for Indian and its neighborhood. Jm2c of course.

[Tanaji]

Zelensky seems to have no concern for the citizens of Mariupol. I am not sure what he aims to achieve apart from bravado that he will not surrender in Mariupol. The ordinary citizens are trapped and will not be allowed to leave inspite of Russians willing to open corridors to get out if they surrender. The city is lost anyway from a military standpoint, so what is the gain? Probably score publicity about citizen deaths even if they can be avoided?

Meanwhile Zelensky aka Baniansky as he is only seen in olive banians these days is warning of a Third World War:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/uk ... reappshare

Propaganda apart, things are not rosy for UKe. Also wants peace talks in Jerusalem with Putin. This is classic Kejriwal style drama wonder if Baniansky has any relationship with Ford foundation…

[kit]

Zelensky seems to have no concern for the citizens of Mariupol.
Propaganda apart, things are not rosy for UKe. Also wants peace talks in Jerusalem with Putin. This is classic Kejriwal style drama wonder if Baniansky has any relationship with Ford foundation…

the f@$$er is not in the frontlines is he ? He does not care if his militias use civilians as human shield ., what kind of person encourages such atrocities while standing out of harms way and preaching? He controls $hit .

[kit]

[kit]

[kit]

French journalist Anne-Laure Bonnelle was invited to the CNews channel to tell what is happening in Ukraine and about Russia's ongoing military operation in this country. But something unplanned happened.
Bonnel has been shooting reports from Donbass since 2015 and tells them about the hard life of local residents. And she started telling the truth. The presenters in the studio did not believe her words that the Donbass was being shelled by the Ukrainian military.



Part of the broadcast, where Bonnel shows photos of the dead residents of the DPR, was then cut from the online version of the program. The presenters decided to ignore the evidence of the journalist about the shelling of the territory of Donbass by Ukraine, to retouch the facts that she presented.

Bonnelle is a smart girl. Not even OBSE. A real journalist is especially surprised by the reaction of French TV people who express themselves in the style of "what are you saying!". She shoves a photo of a teacher torn in half, unhappy grandmothers and children under their noses - "Look!" And they are sitting like this in the studio, leading a discussion, starting it with their French Je ne suis pas d'accord...("I disagree" interlocutor in the lower corner).

In July 2014, the war in Ukraine was in full swing, however, the fighting and clashes were mostly local in nature, there were few direct participants on both sides, and even the battles for relatively large settlements (Mariupol, Slavyansk, Kharkiv) were spot-on, everything ended with a relatively small number of victims on both sides.

On July 27, the Ukrainian army began shelling the city of Horlivka. For the first time since the beginning of the conflict, Ukrainian troops used weapons of indiscriminate destruction within a large settlement.

Kristina Zhuk was 27 years old at the time of her death, she graduated from the Gorlovka Institute of Foreign Languages. Kristina had a ten-month-old daughter named Kira. She and her daughter loved to walk in the park.



Everyone who was on the square during the shelling was killed, only one woman miraculously survived. Later she described what was happening as follows: "At 13.00 the first explosion was heard. And then another and another. The ground trembled beneath us. Gorlovka was shelled from Dzerzhinsk, where the Ukrainian army was stationed. We jumped up from the bench and ran, as it turned out, right into the explosions… It was one of the first attacks on Gorlovka, we did not know that in such cases it was necessary to fall to the ground. At that moment, Kristina ran out to meet us with the girl in her arms. Suddenly, a bright flash hit me in the eyes, and I was thrown two meters into the air. I fell on my left side, and there was a terrible hum above me... I saw Christina in front of me… Her leg was torn to shreds. But she was still alive. And she kept repeating: "Kira, daughter, Kira, daughter!" And she also whispered curses at the murderers."

During the shelling, Ukrainian journalist Oleg Zhelyabin-Nezhinsky was in Gorlovka, he captured on camera the consequences of the shelling, including the bodies of Kristina and Kira Zhuk. The photo of Christina, who died with her daughter in her arms, quickly spread in the media and became known as the "Gorlovka Madonna" because "they reminded any Christian of the image of the Mother of God with a baby, which is painfully familiar to any Christian.



Since the shelling of Gorlovka on July 27, 2014 was the first mass case of the use of weapons of indiscriminate destruction on residential areas and as a result of it many civilians were killed, such brutality shocked the Donbass militia. Subsequently, this led to an unpleasant incident.

Soon the militia captured Ukrainian gunners, who, by their own admission, took part in the shelling of Gorlovka on July 27, 2014. When this became known, the outraged militia literally snatched them from the guards and shot them.

Western journalists learned about the shooting of captured soldiers of the Ukrainian army. The BBC called the militias beasts, terrorists.

[kit]

[kit]

[Haresh]

One thing I have noticed in the UK where I live in London is just how gullible, ignorant & self righteous the average westerner is.

I have been watching and researching quite a lot of alternative narrative on the entire "Russia is bad, we are good" issue.

John Mearsheimer, has given some very sensible talks and is actually surprisingly pro-India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/03/24/opin ... -bomb.html
https://www.mearsheimer.com/

The Americans have the "Munroe Doctrine" however they regard it as their right to interfere all around the world. The west have no self conscious understanding of their own hypocrisy.

John Mearsheimer and Peter Hitchens have both stated that the west has mislead Ukraine. Led them up the garden path and that it will lead to disaster for Ukraine, John Mearsheimer predicted this in a talk in 2015.
Peter Hitchens has written some very sensible articles on his blog, however there seems to be a concerted effort to deny him publicity. His talks on You Tube are very informative
https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/

The western/NATO nations have just come out of a 20 yrs failed war in Afghanistan and a 17 yr failed war in Iraq, they have destroyed Libya, Syria, have they not learnt any lessons??
The same Bull$hit narrative is put forward by the like of Hillary Clinton " we made Russia bleed once, we can do it again"
Or Adam Schiff, who thinks it's a good idea to get the Ukrainians to fight Russians in Ukraine so that Americans do not have to fight them in America !!! seriously, would that ever happen ??
It's bizarre, as if the last 20 years never happened.
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/cos ... n/military

They all want war, in non white countries and for non whites to die, now their madness has come home to them.
It is a bizarre war hysteria.

[Deans]

... The Russian Army has lost 5 general officers.

I was a bit curious about the large number of Generals from the Russian Army who have died, so I tried to see how many generals they have. The figures I found for 2008 were 1,107.

In the Russian army, the rank after Colonel is Major General.

[Baikul]

TB2 impact is very much over stated. The number of videos that are coming put are hardly any. Russians are taking out at least 1 a day. It remains to be seen how many remain.

The promised deluge of drones from US might make a difference if Ukrainians get all of them.

Russians are now stretched at their current capacity I.e. it will be slow progress from now onwards. The front line is pretty huge. They need to tidy up mariupol ASAP and redeploy those troops. Those Ukrainian entrenched positions in the east will be the next focus.

I could cite various commentaries and opinions by analysts, Ukrainian soldiers (with obvious biases) on the ground about the efficacy of the TB2, including a request by the Ukrainian government to the Turks to send more), but data (as much as we have it in the fog of war) works better.

At present the one of the better, if not the best, regarded independent source for information on material losses in this war is the Oryx team. If you look at the numbers for overall material losses of the Russian Army, and compare those to the losses inflicted by theTB2:

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/d ... -army.html

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/d ... -army.html

Russian materials destroyed* by TB2 compared to destroyed* by other Ukrainian weapons:

Armoured Fighting Vehicles: 4 / 74 (5.4%)

Towed Artillery: 5/6 (83%)

Multiple Rocket Launchers: 1/14 (7%)

Surface-To-Air Missile Systems:: 10/ 19 (52%)

Command Post: 2/ 2 (100%)

Communications Station 1/ 3 (33%)

Helicopters: 9/29 (31%)

Logistics Trains: 2/ 2 (100%)

Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps 24/327 (7%)

These are pretty decent numbers; they also tell a story, namely how the TB2 has been effective and/ or used against soft skinned targets (whereas in Azerbaijan and other wars in smaller theatres, they were more effective against Tanks, perhaps this tells a story about superior Russian defence?

*numbers do not include captures or abandoned vehicles

Where are you getting your data for 1 TB2 loss per day? A brief google search did not reveal much. Mind you, the TB2 is also regarded as a slow, first 'world war type' put-put drone, but the same people who critique it as such are saying how effective it is.

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All these talks of a 3/4 day blitzkrieg are figments of imaginative propoganda. It is possible that the resistance was underestimated. Iraq was a one sided war with heavy bombing from Day 1 and took 3 weeks.

It would not be a Pyrrhic victory either if Russia meet her goals - no NATO even in dreams for Ukraine, cleaving of eastern territories with Russian majority and recognition of Crimea.
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Maybe not 3/4 days I'll grant you that. I was too hasty to write there. But I stand by my opinion, that the Russians expected a repeat of Crimea when they basically walked into the place in quick time. Their end run sending paras to capture Kyiv airport, followed by an armoured charge to the capital, limited RuAF presence, apparently not telling their own troops what was happening, are all indicators of an expected capitulation.

They're serious now, and I believe that they will raze Ukraine cities to the ground if they have to, with all the firepower that they were earlier seemingly reluctant to commit. It's a war of attrition now.

On Russians meeting their goals- what were their goals? because we enter opinions and propaganda on both sides. There are counter arguments that Putin initially wanted many things he has backed off on- utter domination of the entire nation, total regime change in Ukraine and significant demilitarisation being three. Others would argue that their goals were more limited. So I won't go there. Probably both sides want a situation where they can declare victory and end it.

Capt Paliy, was probably commanding a battalion of Naval infantry. There is a Naval infantry brigade in that sector. Their officers have navy ranks.

Russia has acknowledged the deaths of 4 Major generals ( a Russian Major General is the approx. IA equivalent of Brigadier).
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That's right. The fifth, a Lieutenant General, to my knowledge, is not yet acknowledged by Russia. Also, to add to what you elsewhere, the top Russian ranks go as:

Major General - Indian Army Equivalent is Brigadier
Lieutenant General- Indian Army Equivalent is Major General
Colonel General - Indian Army Equivalent is Lieutenant General
Army General - Indian Army Equivalent is General
Marshall of The Russian Federation - Indian Army Equivalent is Field Marshall

Thus in IA terms the losses would be 3 Brigadiers and 1 Major General.