Understanding New China After the 19th and 20th Congresses
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Yes NCB works for MHA.
Evidence is the huge heroin busts in past six months from Afghanistan via Iran.
Evidence is the huge heroin busts in past six months from Afghanistan via Iran.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Pratyush
Very good imterview. Learned a lot from both speakers.
I wish we had atleast one expert on China and it's Leaders.
Very good imterview. Learned a lot from both speakers.
I wish we had atleast one expert on China and it's Leaders.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Ramana garu, the original article can be found on creaders.net (many other useful articles as well) https://news.creaders.net/china/2022/01/23/2444392.htmlramana wrote:Epoch Times writes:
Can we look for the original article translated into English?On Jan. 19, an author under the pen name “Ark and China” published the article “Evaluate Xi Jinping Objectively” on overseas Chinese blogs.
The commentary reviewed Xi’s performance over the past decade in the 1)anti-corruption campaign, 2)the party’s ongoing eradication of independent religion and beliefs, 3)human rights abuses, 4)its tight surveillance and control of the people, 5)enhancement of propaganda, 6)further revision of children’s textbooks and history books, 7)the strengthening of state-run enterprises and suppression of the private sector, 7)conflicts with the Western world, and 8 )winning over developing countries by squandering the national treasury.
Adding archived link https://web.archive.org/web/20220213003 ... 44392.html
A google translate into English https://news-creaders-net.translate.goo ... r_pto=wapp
Interesting tidbits that are not so well known outside China, where he as often been caught mispronouncing Chinese sayings or difficult words but the propoganda tries to promote him as extremely interested in books. Think RaGa level buffonery.
If I get the time, I will do a more thorough analysis.Xi Jinping's propaganda has not only suffered setbacks internationally, but has also struggled domestically; this stems from his overly urgent need for political image; because he was a low-visibility official before he came to power, his entire political resume was mediocre. , there is no achievement to boast about. He was chosen as China's leader in a complex political environment that did not give him a sense of security.
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Although Xi Jinping had ousted most of his rivals and concentrated power like never before within two years of coming to power, he had been mired in a deep sense of unease and lack of self [confidence]
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People gradually see a certain deficiency in Xi Jinping. It is difficult for everyone to say what is lacking, because he seems to have everything; but this lack is very fatal, because it is a kind of leader's talent and quality, and this talent is very important to those in power. It is very important, even more important than military power, this is charisma
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Because imperial power cannot confer personal excellence and dazzling presence; emperors can be condescending, but charismatic leaders are learners, friends, and mentors; they are knowledgeable and capable of delivering profound ideas — and this is the chasm that Xi Jinping cannot bridge, and he does not match any of the qualities of a charismatic leader. When a reporter interviewed his neighbors where he was educated as a youth in Liangjiahe, he commented on Xi as "a person who doesn't like to communicate or joke." When a reporter interviewed in Hong Kong a person who had contact with Xi Jinping when he was a local official, he commented on Xi: "It's boring, no one will remember him."
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Xi Jinping's team tried to remedy this after he ascended the throne, piling up all the charismatic traits on Xi and trying to impose it on the world through propaganda.... Xi's staff worked hard, and finally came up with a very powerful concept for him: "the great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation"; this slogan aims to portray Xi Jinping as a heroic hero with the status of the savior of the nation. It shows Xi Jinping's fierce competitive spirit, but has arrogantly sidelined his predecessors. Because it shows that China has been in a state of dormancy and decline before, and it needs a great man to change its decline.
In turn, the slogan did not give Xi confidence; he still looked for lessons from his predecessors, so that he often showed traces of other leaders. He imitated Bo Xilai's singing of red and black in domestic policy, Mao Zedong's personality cult in establishing authority, and Jiang Zemin's cultural temperament in diplomacy; but he did not internalize these characteristics, so he seemed out of place.
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From a personality point of view, he is a passive leader. From the beginning to the end, he rarely expresses himself calmly, and is more like being pushed by others. These factors are accumulating his lack of self-confidence and making him behave more and more cautiously
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In order to avoid more setbacks, Xi Jinping can only show himself as little as possible, and his work and life are deliberately kept low-key. This naturally made him less likely to go wrong, but it also made his political image paler. Xi Jinping is seen to be unconstructive in governing the country, and this negative image inevitably extends to the regime itself. Xi Jinping is nervous about this, because it means that his ruling base is weakening, which will expose him to more questions.
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He made the public opinion guidance system commonplace; no matter schools, institutions, companies, or communities, there are public opinion stability guards all over to maintain the leader's stalwart image; the government intends to praise the leader as a political platform, requiring all people to have political consciousness.
However, this abuse of public opinion reflects Xi Jinping's inherent lack and exposes the plight of his lack of power; he expanded his propaganda because he was worried that his image would be at a disadvantage when compared with other leaders, especially those with outstanding ability in modern times, such as Jiang Zemin and Bo Xilai, etc. He once envied them for their calm demeanor, good words, and the ability to be like a duck to water in the international community; Jiang Zemin once rang the bell on Wall Street and gave a speech at Harvard; Bo Xilai was not the general secretary, but he was won by leaders of various countries of praise (Here you can see who sponsored this article, the Jiang faction and surprisingly enough some from within the Princeling faction). They always have inexhaustible material to discover, but Xi Jinping has to rely on the hype of the media and online commentators to create an illusion of outstanding achievements.
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But public opinion incitement is ultimately a tree without roots, and no politician can rely on it to maintain his position forever. At the same time, disguising public opinion is too obscene and obscene. Internet commentators are notorious both internationally and domestically, and their marginal benefits in guiding public opinion are also diminishing.
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Xi Jinping's personal qualities are so weak that the gold foil peels off as soon as it is put on. All kinds of (fake and exaggerated) praises on him always seem to pass without a trace, unable to stay
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He uses unprecedented power to do political propaganda, but he has never been able to gain firm support; his governance is like a boat against the current, and he needs to build momentum non-stop. The image fades quickly.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Thanks RaviB. Will ruminate.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... h-7823284/
China proposes visits, events to revive India talks
Beijing has proposed a series of events to kickstart the dialogue, starting with possible high-level visits from both sides.
Written by Shubhajit Roy | New Delhi |
Updated: March 17, 2022 4:55:06 pm
Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping. (File)
Two years into the military standoff along the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh, Beijing has reached out to New Delhi to revive bilateral dialogue and set the stage for the BRICS (Brazil-Russia-India-China-South Africa) summit in China later this year.
Beijing has proposed a series of events to kickstart the dialogue, starting with possible high-level visits from both sides.
To begin with, Beijing has proposed a visit by Chinese State Councillor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi to India as early as this month. This is to be followed by a reciprocal visit by External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar. The Chinese side has also proposed a series of high-level visits by its top Politburo members and key officials in President Xi Jinping’s regime.
The Chinese have also proposed an ‘India-China Civilization Dialogue’ to be held in both countries. They have also proposed an India-China Trade and Investment Cooperation Forum and an India-China Film Forum.
But China’s ultimate and clear objective is to host Prime Minister Narendra Modi for the in-person BRICS summit which will be attended by Russian President Vladimir Putin as well. China, which also holds the chair for the RIC (Russia-India-China) trilateral this year, could also host the leaders’ summit on the sidelines of the BRICS summit.
In the current circumstances, it is politically difficult for Modi to attend an in-person meeting with Xi — when the border standoff has still not been resolved. Their last face-to-face meeting was in Brazil for the BRICS summit in November 2019. In October 2019, Xi had visited India for an informal summit in Mahabalipuram.
The last BRICS summit to take place in China was in Xiamen in September 2017 which was attended by Modi. In fact, the Doklam border standoff was resolved after two-and-half months, just before the BRICS summit.
EXPLAINED
A Window Opens
This time, by reaching out with a proposed Foreign Minister-level visit, Beijing is signalling that it is keen to bring ties back on track.
But on the ground, from New Delhi’s perspective, that’s easier said than done. The standoff in eastern Ladakh began on May 5, 2020 following a violent clash in the Pangong lake areas and both sides gradually enhanced their deployment by rushing in tens of thousands of soldiers as well as heavy weaponry.
As a result of a series of military and diplomatic talks, the two sides completed the disengagement process on the north and south banks of Pangong Tso in February 2021, and in the Gogra area in August. While troops are still to disengage in two other areas, the broader de-escalation is nowhere near the horizon. The standoff remains unresolved with about 50,000 troops amassed on either side of the LAC.
A potential window of opportunity to unlock the standoff exists: the 14th BRICS summit in 2022 is going to be hosted by China. Just like Doklam border stand-off was resolved days before the summit in September 2017 in Xiamen, officials feel there is a lever to be used. {:rotfl: Ever hopeful officials}
The timing for beginning the groundwork for the proposed BRICS summit is also significant – Russia is facing a global opprobrium for its war on Ukraine. One of the members of BRICS, Russia will be part of the summit, and standing with the Russian leader will be perceived as an endorsement of sorts.
From Delhi’s calculus, Beijing’s outreach is an opportunity since two years of strained ties has led to the slide of gains made in the last three decades. While India has always maintained that the border situation has adversely impacted bilateral ties, China has insisted that the border dispute should be handled appropriately and the larger picture of bilateral ties should be kept in mind.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Quite happy to note there is a desire on part of China to de-escalate.
Foreign Minister Wang Yi is quite a high figure in PRC and to propose reciprocal visits with S Jaishankar is significant.
Factors:
Also, the upcoming meetings: BRICs and Troika, are important deadlines forcing the pace.
Further ahead is the 20th Congress in November 2022.
Then there is the Ukraine crisis which is casting a big shadow in the world.
And the four states' victory in recent Indian elections indicates NaMo's hands are strengthened.
The deft handling of pandemic waves, the mass vaccinations, and the economy also show that.
The recent evacuation of 22000 Indians from Ukraine war zone with only one dead is another strong point.
Caution:
While these point to a spring thaw but need to be guardedly optimistic.
April is when snows melt and it was in April 2020 that LAC got hot culminating in Galwan casualties.
XJP had changed his PLA commanders thrice indicating unsatisfaction at the stalemate outcome.
Besides he came to Nyangse which is 15 km from LAC to address the PLA which is extraordinary.
And might be difficult to take Taiwan or even the nearby islands.
Conclusion:
After the long speech in the 19th Congress, XJP desperately needs a win in either Taiwan or India or the Indo-China Sea.
So the reptilian brain says to be wary.
However, the cortex says to engage as such a confluence of events won't happen often.
Foreign Minister Wang Yi is quite a high figure in PRC and to propose reciprocal visits with S Jaishankar is significant.
Factors:
Also, the upcoming meetings: BRICs and Troika, are important deadlines forcing the pace.
Further ahead is the 20th Congress in November 2022.
Then there is the Ukraine crisis which is casting a big shadow in the world.
And the four states' victory in recent Indian elections indicates NaMo's hands are strengthened.
The deft handling of pandemic waves, the mass vaccinations, and the economy also show that.
The recent evacuation of 22000 Indians from Ukraine war zone with only one dead is another strong point.
Caution:
While these point to a spring thaw but need to be guardedly optimistic.
April is when snows melt and it was in April 2020 that LAC got hot culminating in Galwan casualties.
XJP had changed his PLA commanders thrice indicating unsatisfaction at the stalemate outcome.
Besides he came to Nyangse which is 15 km from LAC to address the PLA which is extraordinary.
And might be difficult to take Taiwan or even the nearby islands.
Conclusion:
After the long speech in the 19th Congress, XJP desperately needs a win in either Taiwan or India or the Indo-China Sea.
So the reptilian brain says to be wary.
However, the cortex says to engage as such a confluence of events won't happen often.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Ramana garu,
"engage as such a confluence of events won't happen often" - exactly what I thought China would be thinking wrt India.
The thaw is to get a strong India on its side and along with a weakened Russia and subdued Brazil, to project itself as leader of Anti-west bloc.
No blossoming love from Panda for the rising Tiger I'm afraid. Once their purpose is served they will once again try to roughshod over India as if the thaw never happened. They will find or create some pretext.
Moreover, I don't like the idea of Modi traveling to China for the next Brics summit. Too unsafe.
"engage as such a confluence of events won't happen often" - exactly what I thought China would be thinking wrt India.
The thaw is to get a strong India on its side and along with a weakened Russia and subdued Brazil, to project itself as leader of Anti-west bloc.
No blossoming love from Panda for the rising Tiger I'm afraid. Once their purpose is served they will once again try to roughshod over India as if the thaw never happened. They will find or create some pretext.
Moreover, I don't like the idea of Modi traveling to China for the next Brics summit. Too unsafe.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Ramana
My take is a lot more pessimistic than yours. If China is keen on a de-escalation, it can simply do so at the Corps Commander level talks, but it doesn't. Instead, with the suggested steps leading to a Modi visit to Beijing for the BRICS summit, this is China's way of showing (a) Russia that China is influential in helping rehabilitate Putin on the world stage and (b) Quad that India is not a reliable partner to stand up to China. Secondly, with the slowdown in China's economy, they are keen on pushing their burgeoning trade deficit vs India even higher. The Chinese may figure that with our balancing act between the West and Russia, especially with the economic impact of crude prices and the likelihood of sanctions, India is in a delicate spot and they can drive home an advantage.
India's interests lie in:
1. Getting military de-escalation in each sector prior to Wang's and Jaishankar's visit i.e. each visit happens after verifiable de-escalation in say Gogra, then in Depsang with full patrolling rights restored and Chinese acknowledgment of the LAC as it existed pre-April 2020 incursions.
2. Reducing our trade deficit with China.
To do this we have to play the following cards:
1. Stretch out our decision on Wang's visit by lengthy "consideration" of the proposal to run the clock down and force a Chinese concession at the border.
2. Cite Covid outbreak in China to delay visits by Jaishankar to China to extract further concessions on the border.
3. If mediation in the Russia-Ukraine war is accepted, ensure that it happens on Indian or Russian soil instead of Chinese soil.
4. Accelerate our PIL schemes and fast-tracking our FTAs with UAE/GCC to get more FDI.
5. Erect significant non-tariff barriers like adherence to BIS certification, just as China does for value added Indian imports. Calibrate the enforcement of these barriers on Chinese political concessions. We have a weak hand in this respect, but this is a good time to accelerate our manufacturing supply chains as the Covid outbreak in Shanghai and Shenzhen, their export hubs, is likely to cause significant disruptions and increase appetite for diversification.
My take is a lot more pessimistic than yours. If China is keen on a de-escalation, it can simply do so at the Corps Commander level talks, but it doesn't. Instead, with the suggested steps leading to a Modi visit to Beijing for the BRICS summit, this is China's way of showing (a) Russia that China is influential in helping rehabilitate Putin on the world stage and (b) Quad that India is not a reliable partner to stand up to China. Secondly, with the slowdown in China's economy, they are keen on pushing their burgeoning trade deficit vs India even higher. The Chinese may figure that with our balancing act between the West and Russia, especially with the economic impact of crude prices and the likelihood of sanctions, India is in a delicate spot and they can drive home an advantage.
India's interests lie in:
1. Getting military de-escalation in each sector prior to Wang's and Jaishankar's visit i.e. each visit happens after verifiable de-escalation in say Gogra, then in Depsang with full patrolling rights restored and Chinese acknowledgment of the LAC as it existed pre-April 2020 incursions.
2. Reducing our trade deficit with China.
To do this we have to play the following cards:
1. Stretch out our decision on Wang's visit by lengthy "consideration" of the proposal to run the clock down and force a Chinese concession at the border.
2. Cite Covid outbreak in China to delay visits by Jaishankar to China to extract further concessions on the border.
3. If mediation in the Russia-Ukraine war is accepted, ensure that it happens on Indian or Russian soil instead of Chinese soil.
4. Accelerate our PIL schemes and fast-tracking our FTAs with UAE/GCC to get more FDI.
5. Erect significant non-tariff barriers like adherence to BIS certification, just as China does for value added Indian imports. Calibrate the enforcement of these barriers on Chinese political concessions. We have a weak hand in this respect, but this is a good time to accelerate our manufacturing supply chains as the Covid outbreak in Shanghai and Shenzhen, their export hubs, is likely to cause significant disruptions and increase appetite for diversification.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
+108 Anoop ji !
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Very right.
The so-called "de-escalation" will probably be a return to status quo ante 2020 which would be spun by the Chinese as a big concession to us and a great reset in ties. It costs them little in doing so; nor does it actually move the boundary demarcation process further since they will continue to retain their claims (as we will hold on to ours). This is a big farce being played out and should be suitably downplayed in pressers after the event.
The so-called "de-escalation" will probably be a return to status quo ante 2020 which would be spun by the Chinese as a big concession to us and a great reset in ties. It costs them little in doing so; nor does it actually move the boundary demarcation process further since they will continue to retain their claims (as we will hold on to ours). This is a big farce being played out and should be suitably downplayed in pressers after the event.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Totally agree with this viewpoint. China's thinking being that India is feeling vulnerable with the balancing act as well as the potential loss of military supplies from Russia so it's a good time to press home it's advantage.Anoop wrote:Ramana
My take is a lot more pessimistic than yours. If China is keen on a de-escalation, it can simply do so at the Corps Commander level talks, but it doesn't. Instead, with the suggested steps leading to a Modi visit to Beijing for the BRICS summit, this is China's way of showing (a) Russia that China is influential in helping rehabilitate Putin on the world stage and (b) Quad that India is not a reliable partner to stand up to China. Secondly, with the slowdown in China's economy, they are keen on pushing their burgeoning trade deficit vs India even higher. The Chinese may figure that with our balancing act between the West and Russia, especially with the economic impact of crude prices and the likelihood of sanctions, India is in a delicate spot and they can drive home an advantage.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Anoop wrote
So that's not negotiable.
NaMo has been more mindful of national interests than most of us. He doesn't need to be told.
As for Russia peace no such grand ideas... Nor should we interfere.
China's factors are in my view as I already wrote.
India is not in any delicate spot with anyone. Since 1995 India aways assess sanctions impact.
India has a strong hand that is why Wang Yi iss coming. Otherwise first meeting would be in Beijing. What use is my many post if you don't learn the dynamics of power?
That's the minimum NaMo has been saying since day one.India's interests lie in:
1. Getting military de-escalation in each sector prior to Wang's and Jaishankar's visit i.e. each visit happens after verifiable de-escalation in say Gogra, then in Depsang with full patrolling rights restored and Chinese acknowledgment of the LAC as it existed pre-April 2020 incursions.
2. Reducing our trade deficit with China.
So that's not negotiable.
NaMo has been more mindful of national interests than most of us. He doesn't need to be told.
As for Russia peace no such grand ideas... Nor should we interfere.
China's factors are in my view as I already wrote.
India is not in any delicate spot with anyone. Since 1995 India aways assess sanctions impact.
India has a strong hand that is why Wang Yi iss coming. Otherwise first meeting would be in Beijing. What use is my many post if you don't learn the dynamics of power?
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... a-7833453/
Wang Yi’s J&K remark: India hits back, names him
It reminded the leadership in Beijing that "India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues”. This has been conveyed in a demarche sent via diplomatic channels, The Indian Express has learnt.
Shubhajit Roym New Delhi, March 24, 2022
At a time when New Delhi is still to confirm a visit by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi, India Wednesday “rejected” what it said were “uncalled for” comments he made while referring to Jammu and Kashmir at a meeting of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) in Islamabad.
It reminded the leadership in Beijing that “India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues”. This has been conveyed in a demarche sent via diplomatic channels, The Indian Express has learnt.
In Islamabad for the OIC meeting, Wang said: “On Kashmir, we have heard again today the calls of many of our Islamic friends. And China shares the same hope.”
This drew a sharp reaction from the Ministry of External Affairs. Arindam Bagchi, spokesperson for the MEA, said: “We reject the uncalled reference to India by the Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his speech at the Opening Ceremony (of the OIC meeting).”
It is quite unusual to name a Foreign Minister while criticising a statement, and this reflects the hardening of position in New Delhi.
“Matters related to the Union Territory of Jammu & Kashmir are entirely the internal affairs of India. Other countries, including China, have no locus standi to comment. They should note that India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues,” Bagchi said.
While the reference to J&K as “internal affairs” of India and that China has “no locus standi” are standard templates in Indian government responses, the reminder that India refrains from “public judgement of their internal issues” is not used very often.
India usually does not criticise China over its internal issues including those related to Taiwan, Tibet, Hong Kong, human rights violations and atrocities against Uyghurs in Xinjiang province. So, this is a stern message to Beijing from New Delhi.
.....
Gautam
Wang Yi’s J&K remark: India hits back, names him
It reminded the leadership in Beijing that "India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues”. This has been conveyed in a demarche sent via diplomatic channels, The Indian Express has learnt.
Shubhajit Roym New Delhi, March 24, 2022
At a time when New Delhi is still to confirm a visit by Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi, India Wednesday “rejected” what it said were “uncalled for” comments he made while referring to Jammu and Kashmir at a meeting of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) in Islamabad.
It reminded the leadership in Beijing that “India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues”. This has been conveyed in a demarche sent via diplomatic channels, The Indian Express has learnt.
In Islamabad for the OIC meeting, Wang said: “On Kashmir, we have heard again today the calls of many of our Islamic friends. And China shares the same hope.”
This drew a sharp reaction from the Ministry of External Affairs. Arindam Bagchi, spokesperson for the MEA, said: “We reject the uncalled reference to India by the Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his speech at the Opening Ceremony (of the OIC meeting).”
It is quite unusual to name a Foreign Minister while criticising a statement, and this reflects the hardening of position in New Delhi.
“Matters related to the Union Territory of Jammu & Kashmir are entirely the internal affairs of India. Other countries, including China, have no locus standi to comment. They should note that India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues,” Bagchi said.
While the reference to J&K as “internal affairs” of India and that China has “no locus standi” are standard templates in Indian government responses, the reminder that India refrains from “public judgement of their internal issues” is not used very often.
India usually does not criticise China over its internal issues including those related to Taiwan, Tibet, Hong Kong, human rights violations and atrocities against Uyghurs in Xinjiang province. So, this is a stern message to Beijing from New Delhi.
.....
Gautam
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
This is just a negotiating tactics from PRC. The objective is to try and get India off balance before getting into any diplomatic discussion on any topic.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
This is not hitting back. This is very mild.g.sarkar wrote:https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... a-7833453/
Wang Yi’s J&K remark: India hits back, names him
It reminded the leadership in Beijing that "India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues”. This has been conveyed in a demarche sent via diplomatic channels, The Indian Express has learnt.
China, like the US, understands only robust responses. Cancel Wang Yi's visit. After all, the Chinese haven't vacated from all places, they are not budging, do not want to establish status-quo ante and on top of that have been constantly de-linking their border aggression from trade. Wang Yi is coming to probe if there is any possibility of weakening the Quad, now that the likelihood of some 'rift' appears visible. Even his presence in India at this stage would create uncertainties among other QUAD members. That's the plan.
Wang Yi will not and cannot make any meaningful suggestions on the border issue. Just cancel his visit by citing Chinese interference in Indian affairs. Anything less than that would be demurring and that is exactly how China would view us. Why should we humour China at our own cost?
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Agreed. There are some stupid notions of Jiyo-Political Realignment flying around since the Ukraine-Russia war began, with people suggesting an "Russia China India axis" against the flatlining West.
The fact is, West or No West, India cannot trust the Chinese any further than we can spit. Whatever else may have changed, that has not and will not... and we should thank Wang Yi for the timely reminder.
The fact is, West or No West, India cannot trust the Chinese any further than we can spit. Whatever else may have changed, that has not and will not... and we should thank Wang Yi for the timely reminder.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
RD, IMO China must do several things, at a minimum: withdraw from all places in Ladakh and re-establish ante-May 2020 ground position, China must desist from opposing India's peaceful rise (this phrase has been hijacked by China while it is well &truly only our rise which is really peaceful unlike China's), stop from posing a security threat to India by expanding into the Indian sphere of influence (exactly the same as NATO expansion eastwards is causing issues for Russia, a position that China supports), agree to a meaningful resolution on the border issue by exchanging maps sector-wise and re-starting the process to clarify the LAC which has been stalled after c. 2005 (and not this deceitful 'package approach' which is essentially to give concessions to India for India's own lands in one sector but then claim Indian lands in another sector as a quid-pro-quo), implement sincerely the CBMs agreed to at the borders without salami-slicing while boundary resolution talks proceed, allow India to minimize considerably the trade imbalance by giving it access to Chinese markets for Indian products & services.
The Chinese cannot and will not agree to the above because of their Middle Kingdom arrogance. So, I do not see anything worthwhile coming out of the talks. The Chinese would indulge in sweet talk with double entendres which they would twist later to suit their needs as everyone from Zhou-en-Lai downwards did.
This likely Wang Yi visit is pure play Realpolitik. China sees an opportunity to drive a wedge in the QUAD thereby reducing the strength of its opposition in the Indo-Pacific, shape the Indian foreign policy to suit its geopolitical requirements even if it is only in the short term and generally lead India along a 'supposedly' Primrose path which would be nothing but a blind alley.
India must not allow itself to be manipulated by the Chinese.
The Chinese cannot and will not agree to the above because of their Middle Kingdom arrogance. So, I do not see anything worthwhile coming out of the talks. The Chinese would indulge in sweet talk with double entendres which they would twist later to suit their needs as everyone from Zhou-en-Lai downwards did.
This likely Wang Yi visit is pure play Realpolitik. China sees an opportunity to drive a wedge in the QUAD thereby reducing the strength of its opposition in the Indo-Pacific, shape the Indian foreign policy to suit its geopolitical requirements even if it is only in the short term and generally lead India along a 'supposedly' Primrose path which would be nothing but a blind alley.
India must not allow itself to be manipulated by the Chinese.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Breaking news live updates: Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi arrives in India.
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi arrives in India. He is likely to meet NSA Ajit Doval and EAM Dr S Jaishankar tomorrow.
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi arrives in India. He is likely to meet NSA Ajit Doval and EAM Dr S Jaishankar tomorrow.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
China's chutzpah is breathtaking. Barely 24 hours of making this statement:SSridhar wrote:Breaking news live updates: Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi arrives in India.
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi arrives in India. He is likely to meet NSA Ajit Doval and EAM Dr S Jaishankar tomorrow.
Wang Yi has arrived shamelessly in New Delhi. Shows the level of esteem that China has for India.In Islamabad for the OIC meeting, Wang said: “On Kashmir, we have heard again today the calls of many of our Islamic friends. And China shares the same hope.”
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
The statement was calculated to make sure that the meeting will not show any results.
Just a tactic to put pressure on India.
Just a tactic to put pressure on India.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Dalai Lama should be invited as a special guest to the joint statement presser.
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Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
The implementation of CAA is needed to give residency & citizenship to the Tibetan Buddhist refugees who have long been in India. They are languishing as foreigners who are unable to get college admissions a or various jobs. It also gives India the moral authority to help in the selection of the next Dalai Lama. Under no circumstances must the Chinese be allowed to have a say in the selection of the next Dalai Lama. IMHO, this would be a loud and clear message to the Han Chinese.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
We should put Wang Yi on a live exclusive interview with Palki Sharma on wion.
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Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
She's too nice. He needs to be on Arnab Goswami's show with Buddhist Tibetan refugee spokesperson, BJP party spokesperson, then have a shouting contest where Arnab tells Wang Yi to shut up.Cyrano wrote:We should put Wang Yi on a live exclusive interview with Palki Sharma on wion.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
That too, after Wang expresses displeasure for the first interview, we say sorry saar and give him a better platform with Arnab.
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Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
We know that India's place has come up in the world when various white people and other foreign guest show up on Indian TV channel news shows and the host yells at them.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Why is India even allowing the Commie biatch, Wang Yi, in? The biatch should have been shown the door. If the biatch wants India to ease and allow Chinese investments in India, it would show that India took the Chinese act of aggression meekly!
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
While I sympathize with the sentiment, you may want to edit the language.mappunni wrote:Why is India even allowing the Commie biatch, Wang Yi, in? The biatch should have been shown the door. If the biatch wants India to ease and allow Chinese investments in India, it would show that India took the Chinese act of aggression meekly!
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
It's important that no joint communique on the talks between the Foreign Ministers is issued, no platform for interviews of Wang Yi is given which will simply be misused to reiterate their position (recall the full page ads by the Chinese Embassy in the IE, the interview with PTI) and the Indian assessment of the talks should be provided first by MEA (recall the Chinese side putting out their version of the Xi-Biden talks, and the emphasis on the US statements about the One China policy).
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
I still would vote for making him a panelist on Arnab's debate/show/circus what ever you call it, with Sambit, Ranganathan, Arya etc and unleash the cacophony. He'll be traumatized for life.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
We have to consider the Han imperial mentality.
They view Modi coming to China for the summit as an inferior vassal coming to pay tribute to the Middle Kingdom heavenly throne, as is only proper.
The aggression in Ladakh as well as the nice-making visit by Wang Yi are just two aspects of vassal management from their point of view. Beat the vassal to discipline him, but assure him that he is loved by the emperor as a lord loves his servant.
These things have been said many times by Wang Ti as well as the Chinese Ambassador to India during the height of Galwan crisis. This is the meaning of “resolve Galwan in its way, while keeping the larger relationship in mind.”
I predict that there is just as much a chance of an escalating incident on the border as there is of some vand-aid resolution, before the BRICS summit.
Recall that Eleven pulled a similar stunt of starting a border kirkiri even during the Gandhinagar summit with Modi.
They view Modi coming to China for the summit as an inferior vassal coming to pay tribute to the Middle Kingdom heavenly throne, as is only proper.
The aggression in Ladakh as well as the nice-making visit by Wang Yi are just two aspects of vassal management from their point of view. Beat the vassal to discipline him, but assure him that he is loved by the emperor as a lord loves his servant.
These things have been said many times by Wang Ti as well as the Chinese Ambassador to India during the height of Galwan crisis. This is the meaning of “resolve Galwan in its way, while keeping the larger relationship in mind.”
I predict that there is just as much a chance of an escalating incident on the border as there is of some vand-aid resolution, before the BRICS summit.
Recall that Eleven pulled a similar stunt of starting a border kirkiri even during the Gandhinagar summit with Modi.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Why Palki? why not hang him from the doorknob?Cyrano wrote:We should put Wang Yi on a live exclusive interview with Palki Sharma on wion.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Public pilloring by a free press is a pleasure from which the Chinese govt officials have been kept away for too long saar...
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Cyrano wrote:Public pilloring by a free press is a pleasure from which the Chinese govt officials have been kept away for too long saar...
I would pay good money to see Wang Yi on Arnab’s show.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/c ... 2022-03-24
Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi in Delhi, will meet NSA Doval, EAM Jaishankar today
This is the first visit by a high-level Chinese official since the Galwan clashes in June 2020 and the subsequent border standoff in eastern Ladakh.
Sumana Nandy Geeta Mohan, New Delhi, March 24, 2022
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi has landed in India and will meet National Security Advisor Ajit Doval and External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar on Friday in the national capital.
Wang Yi's visit - the first visit by a high-level Chinese official since the clash in Galwan in June 2020 and the subsequent border standoff in eastern Ladakh - comes amid outrage over his remarks on Jammu and Kashmir at the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) foreign ministers’ meeting in Islamabad.
The Chinese foreign minister landed in India after hours of suspense over his visit and no official confirmation until his aircraft touched down.
In Islamabad, Wang Yi, raising the Kashmir issue, said, “On the Kashmir issue, we have once again heard the call of many Islamic friends. China shares the same aspiration.”
Reacting strongly to his remarks, India has said that China has no locus standi to comment on the issue of Jammu and Kashmir - India’s internal matter - and that Wang Yi’s comments are uncalled for.
“We reject the uncalled reference to India by the Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his speech at the Opening Ceremony. Matters related to the Union Territory of Jammu & Kashmir are entirely the internal affairs of India. Other countries, including China, have no locus standi to comment. They should note that India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues,” foreign ministry spokesperson Arindam Bagchi said.
Before landing in India, Wang Yi also made an unscheduled stop in Kabul and met Afghanistan's new Taliban rulers, reportedly over several issues, including the extension of political relations, economic, and transit cooperation, news agency Press Trust of India reported.
....
Gautam
If Wang gets to see Modiji and if the PM agrees to visit BRICS summit then China has won this round.
Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi in Delhi, will meet NSA Doval, EAM Jaishankar today
This is the first visit by a high-level Chinese official since the Galwan clashes in June 2020 and the subsequent border standoff in eastern Ladakh.
Sumana Nandy Geeta Mohan, New Delhi, March 24, 2022
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi has landed in India and will meet National Security Advisor Ajit Doval and External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar on Friday in the national capital.
Wang Yi's visit - the first visit by a high-level Chinese official since the clash in Galwan in June 2020 and the subsequent border standoff in eastern Ladakh - comes amid outrage over his remarks on Jammu and Kashmir at the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) foreign ministers’ meeting in Islamabad.
The Chinese foreign minister landed in India after hours of suspense over his visit and no official confirmation until his aircraft touched down.
In Islamabad, Wang Yi, raising the Kashmir issue, said, “On the Kashmir issue, we have once again heard the call of many Islamic friends. China shares the same aspiration.”
Reacting strongly to his remarks, India has said that China has no locus standi to comment on the issue of Jammu and Kashmir - India’s internal matter - and that Wang Yi’s comments are uncalled for.
“We reject the uncalled reference to India by the Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his speech at the Opening Ceremony. Matters related to the Union Territory of Jammu & Kashmir are entirely the internal affairs of India. Other countries, including China, have no locus standi to comment. They should note that India refrains from public judgement of their internal issues,” foreign ministry spokesperson Arindam Bagchi said.
Before landing in India, Wang Yi also made an unscheduled stop in Kabul and met Afghanistan's new Taliban rulers, reportedly over several issues, including the extension of political relations, economic, and transit cooperation, news agency Press Trust of India reported.
....
Gautam
If Wang gets to see Modiji and if the PM agrees to visit BRICS summit then China has won this round.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
There is a joint press conference at 14:30 Hrs IST today, I hear.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
EAM S Jaishankar Meets Chinese Counterpart Wang Yi In New Delhi, Discusses LAC And Ukraine
Press Briefing by EAM Dr. S Jaishankar on meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister #WangYi
Mar 25, 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USDaUplvK-k
Gautam
Press Briefing by EAM Dr. S Jaishankar on meeting with Chinese Foreign Minister #WangYi
Mar 25, 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USDaUplvK-k
Gautam
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
Here is a better link with MEA's statement post meetings and QnA:
https://youtu.be/P0To_bwqJtQ
SJ seemed not at ease, everything was diplomatic speak which says something by not saying anything. I can only surmise Wang Yi's imposed visit sprung some surprises and China took positions that left Indian side displeased and annoyed. Seems to bear out the attitude KLN garu wrote about above.
https://youtu.be/P0To_bwqJtQ
SJ seemed not at ease, everything was diplomatic speak which says something by not saying anything. I can only surmise Wang Yi's imposed visit sprung some surprises and China took positions that left Indian side displeased and annoyed. Seems to bear out the attitude KLN garu wrote about above.
Re: Understanding New China after 19th Congress
this about sums it up
@ANI
No, our relationship (with China at present) is not normal, given the presence of a large number of troops in contravention of the 1993-96 agreements: EAM S Jaishankar on meeting with Chinese Foreign Min Wang Yi pic.twitter.com/uYDAeWgCAg
March 25, 2022