India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Apr 2022 02:19

We won't have any demands other than to convey that there is a chance for peace. Look at it this way. If the US wants to bring Russia to the table, who is the best person to do it? I say it is PM Modi. Russia is not going to trust any European country or a group of European countries. Europeans had their chance in January. The US would not trust China for obvious reasons. The only country with that kind of stature left is India and the world leader with that stature is PM Modi. We have nothing to lose. What can the US do? They have no options left but to let the war continue as per Russia's objectives and Russia's timetable.

What is in it for India? The very fact that peace was brokered under the aegis of India and PM Modi will boost India's stature further while diminishing #1, #2, #4, and #5.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 11 Apr 2022 02:59

^^^ mediating in this conflict will be like mediating between Momta and Khujliwal. The Israelis tried it but soon realized that it is a pointless endeavor

We better stay out of it, we are anyway modernizing our Soviet era weapons. We need to tell the Americans that it will take Time and Money

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Apr 2022 04:12

Israel itself needs others to broker a peace deal with Palestine. They do not have the same stature as India neither are they completely neutral. They have a definite US tilt considering their dependency on the US. India has good relations with most Muslim majority countries - Indonesia, KSA, UAE, Afghanistan (non-Taliban time), Egypt, and Iran (barring the occasional disagreement).

I say PM Modi should try and stop this war in the interest of world peace. African nations would be grateful so would be Russia and possibly even Ukraine.

Why should we leave the field open to Turkey?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 11 Apr 2022 05:04

If any mediation is needed, it has to start with Arnab Goswami and Republic TV. He had Zelensky on and now needs to have Putin on. From there Modiji can pick it up.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 11 Apr 2022 05:07

Vayutuvan wrote:
Amber G. wrote:Breaking news: Apart from 2+2 dialog there is a Biden-Modi virtual meet .

This comes just 10 days after New Delhi hosted Russian foreign minister Lavrov - (the only foreign minister who got an audience with PM Modi during India visit.)
[img...]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP_LCDaaUAc ... name=large[/img]
[img...]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FP_LCtzaAAM ... name=large[/img]
Thanks for posting both announcements - The US one and the Indian one. The differences in the wording and what issues are stressed are interesting, to say the least. US says "brutal war by Russia" and India says "International issues of mutual interest". Pres. Biden is going to "pressurize" PM Modi once more before coming to the table for an agreement to be brokered by India?

We have to say "US/West has to alleviate the concerns of the Developing world related to fuel/food scarcity constraints". We are deeply disappointed that west has not bothered to look at the fate of billions of people other than selling weapons.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 11 Apr 2022 06:03

Yes. Nice way to push our agenda forward. The ground reality is that nobody in G7 or any other groupings are for the developing world.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 11 Apr 2022 09:38

I will give a simplistic analysis, but something that I find rather predictive of geostrategic events:

#1 and #5 civilizational buddies. They are loathe to lose economic and military pole position. Militarily, together they still remain top dog by a good margin.

If they feel they are losing economic clout, they will use their military prowess to redress the situation. They are also experts at running war economies, and narrative control.

If 3, 4 or 5 try to shift the balance, they will find themselves facing war, sooner or later. Right now 1 and 5 are going after the weakest link, they will create a sore in #4s backside that it can never be rid of completely. next it will be #3, and with 3, they will take the gloves off. Might even encourage a 2 + 6 (Islamic bloc led by tsp) and join as needed to completely knock 3 out of the picture.

#3 had better watch it's back. It neither has the nukes, oil reserves nor the military tech to push back. It needs to get oil and strategic reserves topped up and indigenous mic development on a war footing. Time to loosen the purse strings in the right places to not only achieve above, but also to ensure that fissures and cracks in said alliance are exploited. The French are our best bet in this direction.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 11 Apr 2022 09:44

Vayutuvan wrote:Israel itself needs others to broker a peace deal with Palestine. They do not have the same stature as India neither are they completely neutral. They have a definite US tilt considering their dependency on the US. India has good relations with most Muslim majority countries - Indonesia, KSA, UAE, Afghanistan (non-Taliban time), Egypt, and Iran (barring the occasional disagreement).

I say PM Modi should try and stop this war in the interest of world peace. African nations would be grateful so would be Russia and possibly even Ukraine.

Why should we leave the field open to Turkey?

Too Pawam saar, that's been modern Indias hangup. We have taken a backseat to the lines of turkey for too long. Even limbutimbu like Malaysia and tsp punch higher.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 11 Apr 2022 14:15

The more I delve deeper into the Ukraine saga, the more hopelessly intractable it appears.

US has thrived by creating itself a monster to go after, one after the other. Russia is the one taking center stage now. A visceral desire to see Russia destroyed and loot its resources is checked only because RU has nukes and won't dither if need be.

Europe has totally bought into the idea that Russia is not a European country, tons of historic and cultural evidences notwithstanding. In part because of Catholic/Protestant vs Orthodox divide, in part because of white euro vs slavic divide. Europe just cant put aside this religious and race divide when it comes to Russia. This makes US' proxy control easy and they will make EU & RU fight lest the get closer and become too big to manage.

Ukrainians are a convenient and well placed pawn, exactly in the middle of the geographic, religious and racial divide.

Mediation has been done before, Minsk accords came to a naught. What will fresh mediation (which goes far beyond playing host and providing chai biskoot) by India which lacks finer understanding of many nuances and past grievances achieve? Even if some accord is brokered, if we cant play big brother and put pressure to ensure a peace deal is really respected by the 5 involved parties - Ukr, Ru, EU, UK, USA and NATO, what value does our mediation carry? Will US allow someone to play big brother and grow in stature?

The present conflict is like a forest fire. India should stay away until it burns itself out while being watchful of shifting winds and stampeding hordes. After the fire consumes what it will, the forest will renew and present new opportunities.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 11 Apr 2022 14:28

It has an interesting take from the Russian POV. It quite well researched and we'll presented. Worth watching.

I before this I was unable to understand why US was meddling so strongly in Ukraine. Now it is crystal clear. The US was attempting to preempt the Russians and their emergence as a dominant power.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 11 Apr 2022 14:32

Amber G. wrote:Breaking news: Apart from 2+2 dialog there is a Biden-Modi virtual meet .

This comes just 10 days after New Delhi hosted Russian foreign minister Lavrov - (the only foreign minister who got an audience with PM Modi during India visit.)

Just the day after regime change in Pakistan, Biden-Modi talks. This is going to define the future direction of Indo-US relationship.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 11 Apr 2022 14:36

‘Fake’ US federal agent claimed ties to Pakistani intelligence, prosecutors say

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... s-pakistan

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 11 Apr 2022 18:11

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/raj ... 09208.html
Rajnath Singh, Jaishankar arrive US to attend India-US 2+2 ministerial dialogue.
10 Apr 2022
Rajnath Singh, Defence Minister, and S Jaishankar, External Affairs Minister, on Sunday arrived in Washington DC to attend the fourth India-US 2+2 ministerial dialogue.
The two Indian ministers along with American counterparts Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin and Secretary of State Antony Blinken are set to participate in a virtual meeting from the White House.
As per PTI, the day would begin with Singh being given a red-carpet welcome at the Pentagon by Austin and Blinken meeting Jaishankar at the Foggy Bottom headquarters of the State Department. Thereafter, the four ministers would drive to the White House for the Modi-Biden virtual meeting.
Singh's stay in the US will be from April 10 to April 15. During this period, Singh will also visit INDOPACOM headquartered in Hawai.
Rajnath Singh through his Twitter account on April 9 said, "I look forward to attend the Fourth India-US 2+2 Ministerial Dialogue in Washington DC. Also, I shall be visiting INDOPACOM headquarters in Hawai, during this visit."
.....
Gautam

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Apr 2022 20:52

Rajnath Singh and Lloyd Austin at Pentagon today..

.. Staying tuned..

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Apr 2022 20:59

Nice to see the Indians in their national dress instead of aping the westerners and copying their attire.

This sends out the first message and it's a very important visual message

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Apr 2022 21:04

The summit begins..

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Apr 2022 21:11

- Quad summit on 24th May in Japan.
(Biden tells PM Modi,"looking forward to meet you")
- Modi recalls Biden's slogan "democracies can deliver"
and Mentions about India's humanitarian aid to Ukraine & neighboring countries; Points one medical consignment on way.
- Modi mentions about Bucha killings - calling for an independent probe.
- Points he has called for direct talks between Russian President Putin & Zelenskyy, something he has suggested to Putin.
- Situation in Ukraine concerning, says PM Modi - He very nicely highlights evacuation of Indian students from the war torn country...
- Modi starts with "We (US and India) are natural partners".

Here is Biden's tweet before the virtual meet started. (link

This morning, I’m meeting virtually with Prime Minister Narendra Modi of India. I look forward to further deepening ties between our governments, economies, and people.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Apr 2022 21:18

I am glad you all are contributing.
However, in a maths context if you can't define in first-order terms you want to go to third and fourth-order components.
Try to be simple and then go complex.
IOW use algebra first and don't go into Integral calculus right away.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 11 Apr 2022 22:25

The 2+2 will work well if both sides have clear demands with mutual benefits. If we imagine for a moment that the Ukr crisis was not there, we would be taking the action plans agreed in the previous 2+2 and gone from there.

The last such meeting was 2+2 intercessional dialogue in sept 2021, which looked like a placeholder. The 2+2 ministerial dialog scheduled for Dec 2021 did not happen, its happening now.

But in the current scenario the US will have demands on us, and we need to have counter demands US cannot satisfy, giving us a way out. Just rejecting their demands will not be understood and will sour the relationship.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 11 Apr 2022 22:41

Biden, i feed bad for him. He should be home, enjoying his time with grandkids and gracefully retiring.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 11 Apr 2022 22:52

vimal wrote:Biden, i feed bad for him. He should be home, enjoying his time with grandkids and gracefully retiring.

I guarantee it will happen in Nov 22 after crushing defeat.
Biden goes home
Kamala will be Presidential face
Obama will be VP driving from passenger seat

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 11 Apr 2022 22:53

Yeah, unfortunately thats whats going to happen!

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 12 Apr 2022 00:04

India-US virtual meet: (In the room - Biden, Rajnath Singh, Jaishankar, Blinken, Taranjit Sandhu with PM Modi joining virtually):

Watched live (those parts open to public) - quite interesting. (Press briefing etc).
(I feel lucky to be fluent in Hindi and English - and thus can listen and understand both the leaders)

Here is readout from India's side:

Let me also post readout from White House: "two Leaders also discussed the destabilizing impacts of Russia’s war against Ukraine, with a particular focus on global food supply"

*****

2+2 starts - Seems quite busy and full and substantial agenda - Rajnath Singhji staying here for about 5 more days. Jaishankar quote " virtually no domain we are not cooperating"..

***

--- Meanwhile:
Biden/spokesperson ducks the question if POTUS will make a call to the new PM Shehbaz Sharif in Pakistan. ("I don't have a prediction of a call at this point of time").

While Modi congratulated Shehbaz Sharif and calls for a region "free of terror" !

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 12 Apr 2022 00:18

What Russia Wants video: Nice graphics cant substitute for solid and realistic arguments.

Heartland theory puts too much importance on geographic features alone. Geographic factors do matter. But so do people (ethnicities), what resources a geography offers, culture and history. The outlier US is actually dominating the world now. One of the reasons is its capacity to attract and retain the worlds best talents. Russia cant do much with its just 145 million people, unfavourable demographic distribution, -ve population growth forecast for coming decades, and its inability to attract top talent from outside.

There can be many more arguments against the view presented in that video, which actually sounds like anti-Russian scaremongering IMHO.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 12 Apr 2022 00:28

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pm-to-j ... on-2879287
How To Tackle Ukraine Crisis Key Point In PM, Biden Virtual Meet
"I have spoken to the leaders of both Ukraine and Russia many times and urged them to directly talk," PM Modi said today.
Anindita Sanyal, April 11, 2022
New Delhi: Prime Minister Narendra Modi today reiterated India's neutral stance on the war in Ukraine during his virtual meet with US President Joe Biden, who declared that the two nations are going to continue "close consultation on how to manage the destabilising effects of this Russian war". Speaking of India's contributions to war-torn Ukraine in terms of medicines and relief material, PM Modi also reminded the US President of New Delhi's condemnation of the Russian aggression against civilians in Ukraine's Bucha and expressed hope that the "ongoing talks between Russia and Ukraine will pave the way for peace".
"I have spoken to the leaders of both Ukraine and Russia many times and urged them to directly talk," PM Modi said today. "We hope that the ongoing talks between Russia and Ukraine will pave the way for peace," he added.
The virtual meet -- which PM Modi said was initiated by US -- coincides with the maiden India-US 2+2 dialogue under the Biden administration. It also comes amid a fresh tranche of US sanctions against Russia and Washington's efforts for a stronger line against Moscow from New Delhi.
.....
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.rediff.com/news/report/bide ... 220411.htm
Biden didn't ask Modi to do anything in particular on Russia: WH
Lalit K Jha, April 11, 2022
The United States has not asked India to do anything in particular on the issue of oil import from Russia during a virtual summit between President Joe Biden and Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the White House said on Monday, underling that New Delhi will make its own decisions with regard to various issues related to Russia and Ukraine.
The virtual meeting between the two leaders came in the midst of some disquiet in Washington over India's position on the Ukraine crisis as well as its decision to procure discounted Russian oil.
"The two leaders covered the whole range of issues related to Russia and Ukraine. It was a very candid conversation. I think you will have seen even Prime Minister Modi's remarks at the top he talks about it as well. There were very direct conversations," a senior administration official told reporters after the virtual meeting.
"On the energy issues, of course, it was a subject of discussion. We're aware of what India… we haven't asked India to do anything in particular. We are having a very open conversation. We know that not all countries will be able to do what we've done,” the official said.
"We know that India is not a major consumer of Russian oil. Its current imports are about one to 2% of its total energy import. As of now, our energy payments are exempt from current sanctions. We have been very clear that we've been able to ban oil and LNG imports from Russia. But other countries have to make their own choices. That said, we don't think India should accelerate or increase imports of Russian energy and the US is ready to have conversations with India about diversification," said the official.
......
Gautam

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 12 Apr 2022 01:48

I think India might have told them that we don't trust you. It's up to you to build the trust. Probably old man is trying that

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 12 Apr 2022 01:54

Amber G. wrote:India-US virtual meet: (In the room - Biden, Rajnath Singh, Jaishankar, Blinken, Taranjit Sandhu with PM Modi joining virtually):

What's with that shoddy decor and cheap plastic chairs? Couldn't help but notice...

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Apr 2022 02:39

vimal wrote:Yeah, unfortunately thats whats going to happen!

It may not be all bad. For example, Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthy might be given an important position, Amby to UN or India. It is good for India, IMHO. Don't throw stones at me.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 12 Apr 2022 06:48

Watched 2+2 joint presser ..

As someone who has watched such events since late 60's in USA ..quite remarkable ..Q&A in Hindi in English (with translations) and good Q&A (especially answers from India's EAM).
Worth watching for those who like to pay attention to such things. (Can be seen on official/or other sites)

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 12 Apr 2022 07:16

Cyrano wrote:...
What's with that shoddy decor and cheap plastic chairs? Couldn't help but notice...

The chess grandmasters during the cold War would use their chairs as part of psychological warfare to mentally dominate over their opponents.

Imagine PM Modi on a traditional style simhasan during the video call

... better still imagine Modi ji having the video call while sitting on a traditional Gujarat style jhula

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 12 Apr 2022 07:18

^^^This first happened when Modiji spoke in Hindi and then was translated English when visiting the WH in 2015 & 2016. The funny part is that when he was visiting Trump in the WH, Trump joked to the press that Modi could speak English well and don't let him fool you. They both had a hearty laugh.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 12 Apr 2022 07:19

Vayutuvan wrote:
vimal wrote:Yeah, unfortunately thats whats going to happen!
It may not be all bad. For example, Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthy might be given an important position, Amby to UN or India. It is good for India, IMHO. Don't throw stones at me.

I believe he's being treated for rabies after a DC fox bit him.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 12 Apr 2022 07:48

Mort Walker wrote:
Vayutuvan wrote:
It may not be all bad. For example, Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthy might be given an important position, Amby to UN or India. It is good for India, IMHO. Don't throw stones at me.
I believe he's being treated for rabies after a DC fox bit him.

Ro Khanna ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Apr 2022 08:20

Mort, That's Ami Bera. Get your congressman correct.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 12 Apr 2022 08:26

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/us- ... 022-04-11/

WASHINGTON, April 11 (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the United States was monitoring what he described as a rise in human rights abuses in India by some officials, in a rare direct rebuke by Washington of the Asian nation's rights record.

"We regularly engage with our Indian partners on these shared values (of human rights) and to that end, we are monitoring some recent concerning developments in India including a rise in human rights abuses by some government, police and prison officials," Blinken said on Monday in a joint press briefing with U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, Indian Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar and India's Defense Minister Rajnath Singh.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 12 Apr 2022 08:36

ramana wrote:Mort, That's Ami Bera. Get your congressman correct.

Sorry. I can’t tell various Dems apart, they all look and sound the same to me, so the first inclination is not to listen to them at all.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 12 Apr 2022 09:15

News Flash: Joint statement after India,US 2+2 in Washington calls on Terroristan

Pakistan to take immediate, sustained, and irreversible action to ensure that no territory under its control is used for terrorist attacks.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 12 Apr 2022 09:32

My favorite quote from the presser was from EAM Dr.S.Jaishanker's masterful/savage reply (after prefixing "Thanks for you advice but I prefer to do it my way" [about a rude question about Russian oil supply]

Our purchases for the month would be less than what Europe does in an afternoon",

Standing along side US Defence Secy, Secretary of state..asking those preaching people to look at their own import...

bala · Post by **bala** » 12 Apr 2022 10:47

Fantastic reply by EAM Jaishanker to the airhead women reporter asking Questions to clearly finger and needle India. One afternoon vs entire month supply - that should ring in her airhead multiple times and cause a mini sonic boom. This once again proves an average person in the US is as dumb as rocks. I saw the briefing, the officials conducted themselves properly, the press in the US acts and behaves like they are mai baap hallowed creatures.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 12 Apr 2022 11:04

Just for the record .. the part about terrorism etc from the long joint statement ..

The Ministers welcomed the convening of the 18th Meeting of the India-U.S. Joint Working Group on Counter Terrorism and the 4th Session of the India-U.S. Designations Dialogue in October 2021. The Ministers strongly condemned any use of terrorist proxies and cross-border terrorism in all its forms and called for the perpetrators of the 26/11 Mumbai attack, and Pathankot attack, to be brought to justice. They called for concerted action against all terrorist groups, including groups proscribed by the UNSC 1267 Sanctions Committee, such as al-Qa’ida, ISIS/Daesh, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT), and Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM), and Hizb ul Mujahideen. The Ministers called on Pakistan to take immediate, sustained, and irreversible action to ensure that no territory under its control is used for terrorist attacks. The Ministers committed to continued exchange of information about sanctions and designations against terror groups and individuals, countering violent radicalism, use of the Internet for terrorist purposes, and cross-border movement of terrorists. The Ministers also emphasized the importance of upholding international standards on anti-money laundering and combating the financing of terrorism by all countries, consistent with FATF recommendations.

The Ministers also reaffirmed their support for the early adoption of a UN Comprehensive Convention on International Terrorism (CCIT) that advances and strengthens the framework for global cooperation and reinforces that no cause or grievance justifies terrorism.

Both sides looked forward to the next U.S.-India Counter Narcotics Working Group meeting in 2022 and enhancing cooperation through a bilateral Counter-Narcotics Framework to combat drug trafficking, illicit narcotics production, and precursor chemical supply chains.

Building upon the recent Senior Officials Meeting between the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and India’s Ministry of Home Affairs, both sides looked forward to reconvening a Ministerial meeting of the U.S.-India Homeland Security Dialogue in 2022.

On a side note, I was happy to see explicit statements (fairly detailed and long) about Science/Education/Space/Technology/Medicine related part ..I think these people have done some serious work..
Here is the whole text:
https://www.state.gov/fourth-annual-u-s ... 1Q.twitter