Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

[Cyrano]

UAF's morale and supplies will determine if they will survive the RA onslaught. But if many of the 12 BTGs from Mariupol are brought in from the south, they may not.

[Pratyush]

Mariuol has is under Russian control.

[ks_sachin]

It looks like being a slow grinding advance, not hundreds of tanks sweeping blitzkrieg style - which the Red army actually did in 1942 and 1943 when they burst out of the same Izyum bridgehead that they are advancing from now.

In both 1942 (2nd battle of Kharkov) and 1943 (3rd battle of Kharkov), the Red army, bursting out of Izyum, advanced to far, too fast and just when things looked promising, suffered a catastrophic defeat, when they neglected to ensure enough supplies, protect their supply routes, or defend their flanks. I'm sure that's something the Russians are aware of.

R you sure?
Over confidence seems have been a hall mark os some of their post WW2 engagements unless I am mistaken.

[Pratyush]

The big issue is the ability of the Russian ability to learn the right lessons from the experiences they have had in this conflict. Along with the ability to incorporate such experience going forward.

A lot of fighting men have experienced what modern warfare in this context is all about. Even if 25 % of the young officers and men are capable of learning. This gives Russian army a strong core with which to build a formidable fighting force.

The other determining factor will be in Russia's ability to mobilize it's industrial capacity to start building for victory. Something that has still not been done.

[John]

UAF's morale and supplies will determine if they will survive the RA onslaught. But if many of the 12 BTGs from Mariupol are brought in from the south, they may not.

Igor Girkin who is outspoken on Russian side noted there have been heavy casualties trying to storm the plant and hold Mariupol. He has been asking for a pull out and simply surround it, looks like Putin finally agreed. Mariupol doesn’t have any strategic importance and Ukr don’t have any heavy artillery or armor left to attack their supply lines from there so why bother wasting resources trying to storm the place is his rational.

Anyway as for those Russian forces being moved elsewhere we don’t know what shape what’s left of 12 BTG are and how long they need to regroup before they can be used again. Plus you atleast need a few BTG to encircle the area.

[Cyrano]

Mariupol doesn’t have any strategic importance

Not so soon. This city was the HQ of all the nazi battalions like Azov, Sector 14 etc... Why else would the Ukrainians put up such a heavy fight ? There are reportedly as many as 3000 people holed underground in Azovstahl, of which 400-600 foreigners, several hundred civilians taken hostage to be used as shields/bargaining chips by Azov battalions who make up the rest.

This steel plant has many kms of tunnels and spaces deep underground, built since the soviet era to withstand nuclear bombs. So the Russians would know a good bit about it. They used the biggest bombs they have to take anyone near the surface out, but its suspected lot of people are still underground. They offered several surrender windows, but those people are refusing, and demanded a safe passage with their arms to a third country. RA obviously said F off, will the storm the underground or wait them out or negotiate remains to be seen. Kyiv is definitely not sending anyone to rescue these fighters.

RA has announced today that DPR militias and some special forces will continue to workout how to deal with Azovstahl situation and the rest of the BTGs will be redeployed north towards Donetsk.

[Jayram]

This New Yorker interview is a damning indictment of Russian state of war machine. US Retd Col describing all that is wrong with the Russian war effort.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/ ... al_twitter
Some excerpts

Then there’s the kind of equipment that’s showing up on the battlefield. The Russians are exporting T-90 tanks and marketing Armata tanks, supposedly the latest generation with all the bells and whistles. And then they’re showing up on the battlefield in the axis of advance toward Kharkiv and Chernihiv and Kyiv with Cold War-era, non-modernized, armored combat vehicles—both infantry vehicles and tanks. And it’s like they took these things out of mothballs. So it seems that Russia’s military industry was geared toward export instead of equipping its own ground forces with modern equipment.

I find it hard to swallow that they’ve been spending fifty billion, sixty billion, seventy billion dollars a year on modernizing these forces, and, after almost fifteen years of that, they didn’t get around to modernizing their T-72 tank fleet or retiring it. I think the most logical conclusion is that a large portion of that budget was evaporated in corruption.

This professional soldier seems to believe the eastern campaign will also end in a disaster for Russia. We shall wait and see. Going by what we have seen of the Russian effort that may come true. However given the short lengths of logistics and mostly Russian ethnic support in these areas if Russia lose again then everything about Russian emperor being naked would be true with Putin well on his way out after that.

[Deans]

In both 1942 (2nd battle of Kharkov) and 1943 (3rd battle of Kharkov), the Red army, bursting out of Izyum, advanced to far, too fast and just when things looked promising, suffered a catastrophic defeat, when they neglected to ensure enough supplies, protect their supply routes, or defend their flanks. I'm sure that's something the Russians are aware of.

R you sure?
Over confidence seems have been a hall mark os some of their post WW2 engagements unless I am mistaken.

In 1942, before the 2nd battle of Kharkov, the German plans fell into the hands of the Red army and Stalin declared them to be fake. Once the Red army went ahead with their offensive, the generals could see a threat to their flanks, but Stalin did not want to withdraw and his generals were too scared to suggest otherwise. Germany's 6th Army (Gen. Paulus of Stalingrad) pinched off the salient around Izyum and won a big victory.

1943 was overconfidence. The Germans were retreating after Stalingrad. Stalin pushed the Red army more than they supplies should ideally have allowed (some of his generals agreed and by this time Stalin was listening to them). Manstein conducted a brilliant counterattack, giving the Germans probably their last big victory of WW2.

[Kati]

Mariupol doesn’t have any strategic importance

Not so soon. This city was the HQ of all the nazi battalions like Azov, Sector 14 etc... Why else would the Ukrainians put up such a heavy fight ? There are reportedly as many as 3000 people holed underground in Azovstahl, of which 400-600 foreigners, several hundred civilians taken hostage to be used as shields/bargaining chips by Azov battalions who make up the rest.

This steel plant has many kms of tunnels and spaces deep underground, built since the soviet era to withstand nuclear bombs. So the Russians would know a good bit about it. They used the biggest bombs they have to take anyone near the surface out, but its suspected lot of people are still underground. They offered several surrender windows, but those people are refusing, and demanded a safe passage with their arms to a third country. RA obviously said F off, will the storm the underground or wait them out or negotiate remains to be seen. Kyiv is definitely not sending anyone to rescue these fighters.

RA has announced today that DPR militias and some special forces will continue to workout how to deal with Azovstahl situation and the rest of the BTGs will be redeployed north towards Donetsk.

Isn't it possible to bring some heavy water pumps, and pump water to flood the steel plant until the rats come out?

[Atmavik]

https://www.reuters.com/world/ethiopian ... 022-04-21/

Ethiopians queue up to volunteer for Russia's fight in Ukraine

[YashG]

Based on latest reports, RA will increase the BTG numbers by 10-15 % in eastern theatre.
125 * 0.8 = What was redeployed in eastern theatre ~ 100 BTGs but some are still in Mariupol and might need sometime to be reorganized & some may stay back.

Atleast 20 new BTGs have been also mobilised on top of this.

[YashG]

No less a person than Igor Girkin aka Igor Ivanovich Strelkov, (the first 4 lines from his Wikipedia entry are given below) thinks that the renewed Russian offensive in the East will not be entirely successful. And the longer the war goes on the stronger the Ukranians will become. Perhaps Deans can opine?

I broadly agree. To put it simply, Russia does not even have a 2:1 superiority at any sector of the Donbass front.
They are assuming superior air power and artillery will compensate for it.
They are also assuming their replacement men and equipment will be superior to the Ukrainians AND that fresh supplies of armaments will be more than what NATO is supplying.
If the Donbass offensive does not work, it becomes a battle of attrition that Russia will lose. (Ukraine will lose more, but that is irrelevant as Russia is fighting NATO equipment).

There might be limits to how much NATO can resupply perhaps ?
In 2 months from now, US government will be closer to local elections, local factors will supercede and the shock-awe of Ukrainian war will have mellowed. Donations that are right now flowing in hordes to Ukraine will also die down in 2 months; they might have reached its high this month. So perhaps the resupply high from NATO that we're seeing right now, might be its last.

Ukraine will definitely be able to push more men into war but they mayn't have as much ammo left after 2 months. RA will definitely have much depleted forces - their ability to raise more troops will definitely be much much weakened.

[YashG]

Not so soon. This city was the HQ of all the nazi battalions like Azov, Sector 14 etc... Why else would the Ukrainians put up such a heavy fight ? There are reportedly as many as 3000 people holed underground in Azovstahl, of which 400-600 foreigners, several hundred civilians taken hostage to be used as shields/bargaining chips by Azov battalions who make up the rest.

This steel plant has many kms of tunnels and spaces deep underground, built since the soviet era to withstand nuclear bombs. So the Russians would know a good bit about it. They used the biggest bombs they have to take anyone near the surface out, but its suspected lot of people are still underground. They offered several surrender windows, but those people are refusing, and demanded a safe passage with their arms to a third country. RA obviously said F off, will the storm the underground or wait them out or negotiate remains to be seen. Kyiv is definitely not sending anyone to rescue these fighters.

RA has announced today that DPR militias and some special forces will continue to workout how to deal with Azovstahl situation and the rest of the BTGs will be redeployed north towards Donetsk.

Isn't it possible to bring some heavy water pumps, and pump water to flood the steel plant until the rats come out?

The visuals will be horrible. It will be a PR disaster.
How do you close off an area and prevent a breakout with minimal troops?

[Deans]

I've tried to figure out the Russian air force strength deployed against Ukraine. Like the tanks, the actual strength is a lot less than the total inventory of aircraft.

Of Russia's 5 military districts, 3 are involved in the Ukraine operation (West, South and Central). Their combined total fighter aircraft strength comprises:

SU 24 - 5 Squadrons * 16 aircraft
SU 25 - 5 Squadrons
SU 27 - 6
SU 30 - 5
SU 34 - 3
SU 35 - 4
Mig 29- 1
Mig 31- 6
TU-22 (under Central command) 1 squadron.

This is a total of 568 aircraft. It assumes airfields within range of Ukraine have double their usual number of aircraft (one of the squadrons in the above list is normally based in Krygizstan.

[Cyrano]

How do you close off an area and prevent a breakout with minimal troops?

Putin wants to avoid heavy troop losses which storming underground tunnels inevitably entails, but they are in no mood to let anyone escape. I suspect they have identified possible egress points and made fortified positions against them, and will also have several layers of troops manning LMGs, medium calibre guns and few APC along with 24x7 drone surveillance with IR imaging to pick off anyone who tries to leave. DPR militias are tasked with most of that, freeing up the BTGs from Mariupol.

Flooding the tunnels, smoking them out etc. was mentioned couple of weeks ago, was perhaps considered but set aside as the main strategy due to various factors. One of which could be that there might be lot of civilians down there, some could be workers, others family of Azov militants, others taken hostage. Its hard to tell for anyone.

Ukrainian & western media is suddenly hyping up that hundreds/thousands of civilians are also stuck under Azovstahl without ever asking what the hell are they doing there? No one goes several kms across a war torn city raining shells to hide in a maze of tunnels several kms long, with Azov militants who have been killing them for being pro-russian for company.

RA announced several windows for surrender and civilian rescue starting from Easter Sunday. Only a handful of militants and no civilians came through. Those who surrendered spoke of dwindling morale (they feel abandoned by Kyiv whose orders are fight until you die, no help can or will be sent), of Azov commanders who kill anyone trying to surrender, and of lack of food and water.

Russia is in no hurry, they can wait out the situation with TV cameras on standby.

[Cyrano]

This is a total of 568 aircraft. It assumes airfields within range of Ukraine have double their usual number of aircraft (one of the squadrons in the above list is normally based in Krygizstan.

Nice work Deans ji. If we cross this with available daily sortie data, can we get a good idea of availability % ? I agree that RuAF pilots and machines have never been flogged as much as in the past 2 months, which will reveal a lot more issues than during any exercises.

Might give us some idea of the availability IAF can expect in similar circumstances on its Russian A/C squadrons.

[Cyrano]

This New Yorker interview is a damning indictment of Russian state of war machine. US Retd Col describing all that is wrong with the Russian war effort.

Seems like lot of conjecture based on SM videos. Intense conflict will reveal all the shortcomings of any army. RuA will have its share of problems that can be costly, but to conclude they will lose this war is wishful thinking, his experience notwithstanding. I'd take anything that comes from American establishment with a ladle of salt.

[Deans]

Seems like lot of conjecture based on SM videos. Intense conflict will reveal all the shortcomings of any army. RuA will have its share of problems that can be costly, but to conclude they will lose this war is wishful thinking, his experience notwithstanding. I'd take anything that comes from American establishment with a ladle of salt.

Some of the predictions about RuA made by these experts have not happened. For e.g.
- There aren't many POWs. On the contrary there are an increasing number of Ukrainian POW. When the war started, Ukraine announced that they would give cash to any Russian surrendering. With a conscript getting about $ 250 and an implied new life in the EU for a defector, there should have been thousands of Russian soldiers surrendering. That has not happened. Under the Geneva convention, both sides are obliged to report details of their POW's.
- Russia isn't about to run out of ammunition. The number of air strikes are being increased steadily.

[YashG]

How many of the aircrafts (mig29s) that Ukraine has can operate from rough roads or paved highways ?

I'm assuming that Russians have bombed all possible airfields by now and whatever ukraine is flying is taking off from some highways or rough roads. I guess russia is now throwing the kitchen sink in terms of air strikes.

Based on a news article - i gathered that russia is doing >200 sorties vs 5-10 by Ukraine. Due to bombing of fuel tanks in Ukrainian fields, Ukraine isnt taking too many sorties. Most of their sorties are in areas with ground control.

[Cyrano]

Yes, some of our posters are picking up western media narrative, wrapping some vacuous opinion on it and posting it here. BRF threads will be interesting and educative if we put in a little more effort to analyse and understand than just quick reaction SM like Twitter.

[John]

Ukranians still flying An-26s one crashed after hitting a power line 1 killed and 2 injured in Zaporizhia. This indicates their runways are operational even closer to front lines, however fact that is flying so lo indicates a threat posed by Russian SAM.

Here is Russian tank graveyard in Russia show extent losses that may not be documented, some of this could be from Ukr strikes in Russia.

https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1517 ... lumxiL-2HQ

[brar_w]

Runway denial is a constant and not a one time mission, especially not over a country as large as Ukraine.

Anyhow, we should see western 155 mm systems show up in Ukraine in the coming days. The US has transferred 18 LW155's, and another 72 are on the way. Canada is also preparing some LW155's for transfer, and France committed to a dozen CAESAR systems over the last day or so. With other tracked, and wheeled systems coming into the picture, Ukraine could soon have 125-150 155 mm systems (new to them) operational in the coming weeks. Runway independent / Group 1-II UAV's coupled with 155 mm systems will be a fairly significant capability boost for UA if properly used especially if PGK's etc are also part of the rounds that have been transferred. The US side has also transferred a previously unknown, US Air Force developed Group 1/II / Loitering system.

[kit]

Isn't it possible to bring some heavy water pumps, and pump water to flood the steel plant until the rats come out?

The visuals will be horrible. It will be a PR disaster.
How do you close off an area and prevent a breakout with minimal troops?

chemical weapons., you need not kill them off only incapacitate., assuming the holed up people do not have that many masks !

[Cyrano]

Jeez! Chemical agents will take forever to disperse in those underground tunnels, Russian forces won't be able to go in afterwards to clean up. Rescuing any civilians held hostage will be impossible.

The best outcome is for those holed up to lay down arms and surrender and go to gulags instead of everyone dying a terrible death. Seeing how they are adamant, perhaps Kyiv regime has to fall for them to realise their macabre game is up.

US is pumping more weapons - for what outcome??!! Any amount of conventional weapons can't help AFU defeat Russia now.

[ks_sachin]

Jeez! Chemical agents will take forever to disperse in those underground tunnels, Russian forces won't be able to go in afterwards to clean up. Rescuing any civilians held hostage will be impossible.

The best outcome is for those holed up to lay down arms and surrender and go to gulags instead of everyone dying a terrible death. Seeing how they are adamant, perhaps Kyiv regime has to fall for them to realise their macabre game is up.

US is pumping more weapons - for what outcome??!! Any amount of conventional weapons can't help AFU defeat Russia now.

Bleeding by a thousand cuts. Imagine where the IA would have been if not for CI. We are good at CI but a lot of stuff has atrophied for want of attention.

[kit]

Jeez! Chemical agents will take forever to disperse in those underground tunnels, Russian forces won't be able to go in afterwards to clean up. Rescuing any civilians held hostage will be impossible.

The best outcome is for those holed up to lay down arms and surrender and go to gulags instead of everyone dying a terrible death. Seeing how they are adamant, perhaps Kyiv regime has to fall for them to realise their macabre game is up.

US is pumping more weapons - for what outcome??!! Any amount of conventional weapons can't help AFU defeat Russia now.

those tunnels have ventilation dont they., its not so difficult , but trust me, the Russians are good at this sort of game

[kit]

Jeez!

US is pumping more weapons - for what outcome??!! Any amount of conventional weapons can't help AFU defeat Russia now.

Really , so why didnt the mighty americans win AfGhan war , sorry , isnt there a saying its not what you have but what you ..

[Cyrano]

Russia has already warned foreign shipments of arms will be targeted for destruction as soon as they enter Ukraine. With near total air dominance they will destroy most of them before the traverse the breadth of the country to reach the contact zones in the east.

Brar_w ji,
Are all these arms being supplied free donations by the US or is Ukraine or other NATO countries expected to pay for it sometime in the future?

[Cyrano]

Jeez!

US is pumping more weapons - for what outcome??!! Any amount of conventional weapons can't help AFU defeat Russia now.

Really , so why didnt the mighty americans win AfGhan war , sorry , isnt there a saying its not what you have but what you ..

Sorry I don't get your drift....

those tunnels have ventilation dont they

Yeah Russians are known for this kind of stuff, like that terrorist attack they foiled on a theatre some years ago. The whole plant has been bombed so much, it's possible many ventilation shafts are blocked with rubble, fans may not be working, especially if power is cut off. I still think RA wants to get them to surrender and rescue any civilians, which they can accomplish by just waiting.

[brar_w]

US is pumping more weapons - for what outcome??!! Any amount of conventional weapons can't help AFU defeat Russia now.

Do your sources have a definitive timeline on when space X satellites can be expected to spontaneously begin blowing up?

[kit]

Really , so why didnt the mighty americans win AfGhan war , sorry , isnt there a saying its not what you have but what you ..

Sorry I don't get your drift....

just meant say just arms don't win wars !

War is a multi dimensional conflict , one can win one but lose the game. Ukraine has lost sight of its nation hood , its ideals , focussed on a single "idea" of defeating Russia when it is missing the bigger picture of how to co exist with a bigger neighbour . And the one advising is right across the ocean on the other side of the world with nothing to lose. If they cant as much grasp that simple fact they are done for, with whatever "weapons" they get. They will lose this "war" either way.

[Cyrano]

US is pumping more weapons - for what outcome??!! Any amount of conventional weapons can't help AFU defeat Russia now.

Do your sources have a definitive timeline on when space X satellites can be expected to spontaneously begin blowing up?

Not sure I follow you. But please answer my question on US arms funded as free gifts or not if you know the answer.

[Cyrano]

Kit ji,
Agree, and there is a more sinister and dangerous dimension to Ukraine's behaviour. They have let Banderite movements to take roots and with generous external help, created a neoNazi monster that controls the country now. Germany did that and everyone paid a heavy price to defeat and bury that monster of hate.

It's sad and at the same time infuriating to see European countries and US wilfully turning a blind eye and continuing to feed this monster with an air of moral righteousness. I mean - how much more absurd can one get?

Let's say all these arms succeed in repelling Russian forces, what next? Which type of forces will rule Ukraine? Will that be good for Europe? Does NATO seriously expect to include Ukraine and station highly capable weapons and troops on their soil? What will these neoNazis drunk with victory do with all that?

Someone explain to me if it makes any sense to indulge in such a mindless explosive gamble just to spite/tame Russia ? Come on man!

[brar_w]

Not sure I follow you.

I think you do. We’re here trying to caution others or buying too much into a narrative while pushing fake news sourced from dubious SM accounts so it doesn’t mean much.

As far as the straw man, I don’t think it’s worth indulging in that because an invasion and denial conflict is about shaping, contesting, and ultimately attempting to deny military and political objectives (and forcing the other side to reconsider and hopefully end the destruction) from being achieved and can’t really be dumbed down to one side defeating another. Having access to more capable weapons does allow the defender more options and capability. How that will shape this conflict in the months ahead remains to be seen. I am not here all confident about being able to predict the outcome in advance as some others may be but YMMV. The military objectives or taking over the entire Donbas and now (recently) the entirety of southern Ukraine will be severely contested with or without western weapons. Ukraine is not likely to fold up and offer a vast chunk of its territory without a fight. If it was their intention they would have done it by now. The battle now is a long and bloody attrition fight focused on taking (preventing from the defenders perspective) and then holding cities, villages etc. And then overcoming an insurgency if it gets to that.

[Cyrano]

Brar_w ji,
If I understand you correctly, US has not really assessed accurately AFU's position in this conflict and determined what weapons package is needed to be delivered where, and that AFU soldiers will be able to use them optimally to result in a decisive victory for Ukraine at the earliest and end this terrible war ?

They are just supplying more weapons to create more 'options' which will dissuade Russia and get them to hopefully back off in the 'months ahead' ?

The 'months ahead' part answers the first question above. Tells me US and NATO have no effing idea where this is going, while they are basking in woke media sunshine, they're actually groping in the dark on a runaway train, can't stop and can't get off. Some leaders of the free world demanding everyone join their three legged tango.

BTW, if you do not know the answer to the funding question you can say so. No problem.

[ldev]

US is pumping more weapons - for what outcome??!! Any amount of conventional weapons can't help AFU defeat Russia now.

Do your sources have a definitive timeline on when space X satellites can be expected to spontaneously begin blowing up?

Talking of SpaceX and Ukraine, there is an interesting article in BreakingDefense on how SpaceX updated the software on the Starlink satellite constellation and thereby was able to resist persistent Russian EW efforts to jam the Starlink terminals in Ukraine.

WASHINGTON: The US military’s electronic warfare enterprise needs to take a page from SpaceX when it comes to responding to new threats, the Pentagon’s director for electromagnetic warfare said today.

After SpaceX sent Starlink terminals to Ukraine in February in an apparent effort to help Ukraine maintain its internet connection amid war with Russia, SpaceX founder Elon Musk claimed that Russia had jammed Starlink terminals in the country for hours at a time. After a software update, Starlink was operating normally, said Musk, who added on March 25 that the constellation had “resisted all hacking & jamming attempts” in Ukraine.

Assuming Musk — famously something of a showboater in his public comments — is providing an accurate picture, a private firm beating back Russian EW attempts with software updates is the kind of thing that makes Pentagon EW experts pay attention.

“From an EW technologist perspective, that is fantastic. That paradigm and how they did that is kind of eyewatering to me,” said Dave Tremper, director of electronic warfare for the Pentagon’s acquisition office. “The way that Starlink was able to upgrade when a threat showed up, we need to be able to have that ability. We have to be able to change our electromagnetic posture, to be able to change very dynamically what we’re trying to do without losing capability along the way.”

SpaceX beating Russian jamming attack was ‘eyewatering’: DoD official

Also SpaceX's ability to launch satellites at the rate of roughly 50 every week i.e. 50 Starlink satellites per Falcon 9 launch, vastly exceeds any country's ability/ASAT weapon inventory to shoot down those satellites. Already SpaceX has ~2300 satellites in orbit.

[Cyrano]

We’re here trying to caution others or buying too much into a narrative while pushing fake news sourced from dubious SM accounts so it doesn’t mean much.

Dubious SM accounts, monochrome woke MSM, incoherent POTUS, flip-flopping Pentagon briefings, or nearly cancelled Russian Defense Ministry briefings machine translated into English - seems we are spoilt with such a vast choice these days

[Cyrano]

Also SpaceX's ability to launch satellites at the rate of roughly 50 every week i.e. 50 Starlink satellites per Falcon 9 launch, vastly exceeds any country's ability/ASAT weapon inventory to shoot down those satellites. Already SpaceX has ~2300 satellites in orbit.

Space is the wild west waiting for the first space grabber now? What conventions govern Space usage among countries that profess a rules based order? Or there aren't any right now?
If Russia or any country destroyed Starlink satillites 'above' it or 'over' its assets somewhere on the globe will that amount to a declaration of war?

Some answers here for those who are interested:
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail ... fa0d75d602

[skumar]

I don't think anyone in the public space has real insight into what is happening. Both sides can claim they know better but it is worth zilch.

SM has been curtailed severely. The curtailment is especially surprising to many in the so called liberal democracies. This is not the battle of truth but a battle of narratives. It is a sign of the times with these "liberal" states realizing that there is a price to be paid.It is easy to preach to others to pay the price but when not so much when it comes out of your wallet. Incidents like Canada, Sweden, Spain will happen more frequently.

Ukraine expends energy in trying to precipitate actions from others that will force Russia to withdraw. Not going to happen, Russia has too much invested already. Putin might as well step down.

Whatever happens, Ukraine has been pushed back by decades. It does look like Putin will need a narrative for Victory Day if there is no agreement in place. Things can change because collapse is always instantaneous.

[bala]

Is there a cogent reason why the Euros and US Deep State want to flood Ukraine with their weapons and prolong the war even further. This is another "half clever" scheme which is going to end up in failure and more destruction of Ukraine.