Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 22 Apr 2022 21:04

Cyrano wrote:[Brar_w ji,
If I understand you correctly, US has not really assessed accurately AFU's position in this conflict and determined what weapons package is needed to be delivered where, and that AFU soldiers will be able to use them optimally to result in a decisive victory for Ukraine at the earliest and end this terrible war ?

They are just supplying more weapons to create more 'options' which will dissuade Russia and get them to hopefully back off in the 'months ahead' ?

The 'months ahead' part answers the first question above. Tells me US and NATO have no effing idea where this is going, while they are basking in woke media sunshine, they're actually groping in the dark on a runaway train, can't stop and can't get off. Some leaders of the free world demanding everyone join their three legged tango.

BTW, if you do not know the answer to the funding question you can say so. No problem.

I don’t think that is the case . Weapons are flowing as per assessed and projected need. War is uncertain and outcomes can and cannot land your way and objectives can be shaped and change based on those tactical outcomes. No one has so ouch insight they they sit with a remote control transfer an arms package that can ensure victory in the upcoming attrition phase of conflict so that straw man they this can be attributed to the US, France, UK etc is absurd.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 22 Apr 2022 21:04

Cyrano wrote:
Also SpaceX's ability to launch satellites at the rate of roughly 50 every week i.e. 50 Starlink satellites per Falcon 9 launch, vastly exceeds any country's ability/ASAT weapon inventory to shoot down those satellites. Already SpaceX has ~2300 satellites in orbit.
Space is the wild west waiting for the first space grabber now? What conventions govern Space usage among countries that profess a rules based order? Or there aren't any right now?
If Russia or any country destroyed Starlink satillites 'above' it or 'over' its assets somewhere on the globe will that amount to a declaration of war?

Some answers here for those who are interested:
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail ... fa0d75d602

Russia realizes it is futile to waste a USD 25 Million 2 stage ASAT rocket on a $250,000 Starlink satellite.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 22 Apr 2022 21:05

bala wrote:Is there a cogent reason why the Euros and US Deep State want to flood Ukraine with their weapons and prolong the war even further. This is another "half clever" scheme which is going to end up in failure and more destruction of Ukraine.

A nightmare scenario for Europe will be Stingers/ ATGMs sold by Ukrainians to terrorist groups. FSB might even facilitate that sale.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 22 Apr 2022 21:08

Deans wrote:
bala wrote:Is there a cogent reason why the Euros and US Deep State want to flood Ukraine with their weapons and prolong the war even further. This is another "half clever" scheme which is going to end up in failure and more destruction of Ukraine.
A nightmare scenario for Europe will be Stingers/ ATGMs sold by Ukrainians to terrorist groups. FSB might even facilitate that sale.

There have been reports that the US has "no visibillty" on most weapon shipments shortly after they enter Ukraine. So yes, I am sure the Europeans are freaking out on all those ATGMs that could be diverted. And Ukraine is a very corrupt country so nobody really knows how many of these weapons are being used on the battlefield and how many are being sold in the black market.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 22 Apr 2022 21:09

ldev wrote: Russia realizes it is futile to waste a USD 25 Million 2 stage ASAT rocket on a $250,000 Starlink satellite.

All based on fake news (also poster here) that Putin had ordered the destructing of starlink under the assumptions that Russia could even pull such a thing off. I mean talk of completely making stuff up and then continuing to push that around as if it were a legitimate thing.

bala · Post by **bala** » 22 Apr 2022 21:11

Deans wrote: A nightmare scenario for Europe will be Stingers/ ATGMs sold by Ukrainians to terrorist groups. FSB might even facilitate that sale.

I was thinking about this a few days back- Ukrainians making moolah of the new fangled weapons supplied by Euros/US Deep State. This is also a way to empty some stocks and give new orders to the MIC to make more stuff. Tis all subject to Russia not bombing the supply train/trucks.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 22 Apr 2022 21:12

YashG wrote:How many of the aircrafts (mig29s) that Ukraine has can operate from rough roads or paved highways ?

I'm assuming that Russians have bombed all possible airfields by now and whatever ukraine is flying is taking off from some highways or rough roads. I guess russia is now throwing the kitchen sink in terms of air strikes.

Based on a news article - i gathered that russia is doing >200 sorties vs 5-10 by Ukraine. Due to bombing of fuel tanks in Ukrainian fields, Ukraine isnt taking too many sorties. Most of their sorties are in areas with ground control.

Ukraine has lost 5 aircraft this week, trying to attack the Russian concentration in the Izyum area. 4 were mig-29's with limited ground attack capability, so they have identified Izyum has their main threat and are throwing everything at it. Its also possible the Mig-29s were from NATO, flown by reservist pilots, or those without recent experience.
One part of Russian arms that seems to have performed well is SAM's (both S-300/400 and mobile SAM's moving with the BTGs). RuAF as made no Air to Air kills, all Ukrainian losses in the air are from SAMs.
After the first month Russia had stepped up fighter aircraft sorties from 200 to 300 a day and indications are that they have increased it further in the past week.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 22 Apr 2022 21:29

Whatever happens, Ukraine has been pushed back by decades.

Agree, actually it's worse than that. A whole country's psyche has been fcuked up with extremist, ultra-nationalist, racist, bigoted thinking which will believe it's hate-fueled ideology was right along since it could grab power, got so much support from the "international community" in an escalating conflict, and will begrudge Russians for this war, the same "international community" for
not doing more and everyone else will become objects of hate because they didn't support.

The world will pay for decades to come because the surviving Ukranian adults of today will tell their narratives to their children who will grow up with this feeling of being wronged , exactly like we are paying for Radical Islamic jehadis.

Trans-generational grudge and hatred are extremely difficult to stamp out. This neonazi revival and it's covert ascension to power happened right under the nose of Germans, Europeans and Americans who were drawn by the irresistible attraction of weaponising it against Russia - the only country which seems to realise what kind of monster has been let loose.

The devil ie malevolence has tempted them and having no concept like Dharma to sheild them, the west has bitten the forbidden fruit.

That's a big lesson for India - which India is civilisationally quite capable of hearing and retaining.

Sorry if this is somewhat OT, if anyone wants to comment on these lines let's take it to the strat forum Ukraine thread.

kit · Post by **kit** » 22 Apr 2022 22:37

bala wrote:Is there a cogent reason why the Euros and US Deep State want to flood Ukraine with their weapons and prolong the war even further. This is another "half clever" scheme which is going to end up in failure and more destruction of Ukraine.

It is not going to be "just Ukraine." Not so long ago almost every letter western ( and other) intelligence agency were trying to prevent the number of SAMs in the black market. Now where do you think all those thousands of SAMs in Ukraine are going to land up .. most WILL be sold on the black market , no brainer here. And who are most likely to get it..? .. neo nazi groups, splinter terrorist organisations and every jihadi who had a had time getting hold of one.. its just a matter of time the Uke war is going to spill over to oirope.. there is no way neighbouring houses are going to be intact when a run away fire that is increasingly being doused with kerosene instead of water .

Europe is going to be the next middle east. It is just a matter of time. And America ..all that karma ?!

John · Post by **John** » 22 Apr 2022 22:48

kit wrote:
bala wrote:Is there a cogent reason why the Euros and US Deep State want to flood Ukraine with their weapons and prolong the war even further. This is another "half clever" scheme which is going to end up in failure and more destruction of Ukraine.
It is not going to be "just Ukraine." Not so long ago almost every letter western ( and other) intelligence agency were trying to prevent the number of SAMs in the black market. Now where do you think all those thousands of SAMs in Ukraine are going to land up .. most WILL be sold on the black market , no brainer here. And who are most likely to get it..? .. neo nazi groups, splinter terrorist organisations and every jihadi who had a had time getting hold of one.. its just a matter of time the Uke war is going to spill over to oirope.. there is no way neighbouring houses are going to be intact when a run away fire that is increasingly being doused with kerosene instead of water .

Europe is going to be the next middle east. It is just a matter of time. And America ..all that karma ?!

You do understand Ukraine and rest of east European states has vast arsenal of Soviet ammunition incl SAM that far exceeds what US & Allies have supplied.

Lot of those end up in Black market and it is not like throwing western weapons is suddenly going to change that.

On bright side is Ukranians are actually now taking control of these warehouses and using them, only couple days ago they raided and captured ton of Soviet era weapons (they claimed Russians worked a deal with arms dealer and had them stashed away by Irpin but most likely it was corrupt officials selling it to a dealer).

Here is another soviet era weapon warehouse they raided yesterday:
https://twitter.com/space_osint/status/ ... RKm7L-wv9g

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 22 Apr 2022 23:05

Apparently there’s a forcefield that prevents the tens of thousands of Ukrainian or Russian weapons on the battlefield from making their way into the black market but apparently the soon to expire stocks or older variant ATGMs or MANPADS being transferred by US and EU will. Let wait for a single piece of evidence to emerge of a javelin CLU from emerging outside of the battlefield before claiming that European fringe elements will soon be towing M777s and invading Western European capitals..

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 23 Apr 2022 00:03

stick to topic folks

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 23 Apr 2022 00:20

bala wrote:This is also a way to empty some stocks and give new orders to the MIC to make more stuff. Tis all subject to Russia not bombing the supply train/trucks.

the likelihood of russia bombing weapons supply chain has already been worked out by US and Ukraine. The vast number of non descript transports moving from borders to interiors makes it impossible for russians to target the chain.

It can only be done by having some intel assets on ground whoch it seems russia lacks at this time or we will know soon. If lucky russia might just be able to bomb 10-20% of supplies.

With larger number of sorties, russia will be luckier to bomb the pieces when they are deployed. the 300Km front is easier to look for artillery deployments.

Russian headache will be loitering ammo that will takeoff from deep western ukraine to pinpointed locations that US intel will supply to ukraine. these new loitering ammo will be quite an headache. it is these that russia will need to search and destroy before they takeoff. i do not know enough what works in this case. But i also assume that us had figured how to make these new secret drones unjammable as well.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Apr 2022 00:29

Looks like Poland is donating its its T-72s tanks to Ukraine and the Dutch are sending more than a dozen PzH 2000 howitzers. While the initial focus was on ATGMs and MANPADS the UA demand for the next phase seems to be for Artillery guns, shells (possibly precision guided) and loitering munitions.

YashG wrote:
It can only be done by having some intel assets on ground whoch it seems russia lacks at this time or we will know soon. If lucky russia might just be able to bomb 10-20% of supplies.

In the nearly two months or conflict, RuAF has not put up the type of sorties that one would need to destroy even a fraction of these as they make their way to the front line or storage depots. This point comes up over and over again but it’s really difficult to hit moving targets far away when decoying is involved. One can look at the border Ukraine shares with friendly nations to see how large an area we’re talking of here. There is simply not enough air power or persistent ISR over Ukraine to make this work.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 23 Apr 2022 01:01

I'm surprised to see many BRF posters repeating this western nonsense about the "brave, heroic Ukrainian army". Let's get real for a moment. Yes, Ukrainian troops have put up a decent fight, but nothing like their forefathers in WW2. Given that Ukraine has enjoyed a 3:2 advantage in troop #'s from the start (which has now grown to 2:1), they have infinite supplies and vastly superior technology at every level, from anti-tank weapons to MANPAD's to drones, even better communications, night vision gear, real time ELINT & satellite support from the US & NATO, plus favorable weather and the benefit of fighting on the defense, by all measures the Ukrainians should have slaughtered the Russians outright. The fact that Ukraine had all these advantages and still gave up so much territory, is actually quite disappointing. Frankly, the French fought with more determination than this in back in 1940 when they faced the Blitzkrieg.

And even with all these advantages on their side, the Ukrainians have still lost huge chunks of territory, they've still resorted to the use of human shields (setting up firing positions in churches, schools, etc, murdering civilians trying to flee their cities instead of just letting them evacuate to safety, and other such tactics). It all paints a picture of a much more cowardly Ukrainian army than the heroic lie we have been fed by the media.

Meanwhile I see the Russians, outnumbered and hopelessly outmatched in technology, continuing to attack right into the teeth of the deadliest anti-tank weapons ever fielded in combat, flying their missions over a battlefield saturated with MANPAD's far deadlier and more dangerous to their aircraft than anything any pilots have ever faced in any war ever, under constant attack by an enemy they cannot even see most of the time. Undersupplied, lacking night vision and thermal sights, in tanks and armored vehicles that could explode and burn the crew alive at any moment. Other than ISIS, no modern fighting force has shown this kind of mettle. I certainly haven't seen the Ukrainians exhibiting anywhere near this level of bravery. Their idea of combat is firing an NLAW or a Stinger from a safe distance and then running away.

Given what we now know of the vast technological gap between the two, the lopsided numbers, and all the force multipliers and support Ukraine gets, by all rights the Russians should never have gotten this far. The Russians have only been as successful as they have been because Ukrainian troops don't hold their ground and fight tenaciously; they shoot and scoot, hiding behind civilians and never counterattacking unless the Russians have already pulled back. Imagine what ISIS would have accomplished with 1/10 the weaponry, equipment and support Ukraine enjoys. Imagine how well our own army would perform with the same. Ukrainian bravery, motivation and fighting prowess have been exaggerated to the point of absurdity.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 23 Apr 2022 01:07

All that is right. But Russia started the war. And is now stuck trying to figure out how to end it with Echandee intact.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 23 Apr 2022 01:45

brar_w wrote:Looks like Poland is donating its its T-72s tanks to Ukraine and the Dutch are sending more than a dozen PzH 2000 howitzers. While the initial focus was on ATGMs and MANPADS the UA demand for the next phase seems to be for Artillery guns, shells (possibly precision guided) and loitering munitions.

YashG wrote:
It can only be done by having some intel assets on ground whoch it seems russia lacks at this time or we will know soon. If lucky russia might just be able to bomb 10-20% of supplies.
In the nearly two months or conflict, RuAF has not put up the type of sorties that one would need to destroy even a fraction of these as they make their way to the front line or storage depots. This point comes up over and over again but it’s really difficult to hit moving targets far away when decoying is involved. One can look at the border Ukraine shares with friendly nations to see how large an area we’re talking of here. There is simply not enough air power or persistent ISR over Ukraine to make this work.

We're saying the same thing brar.

But decoying will be difficult as the equipment moves closer to frontline. You wont see a lot of civilian traffic coming towards frontline. Plus the frontline is progressively funneling into a smaller area.
- Ukrainians will disperse supply in number of supply trucks.
- Plus artillery pieces will be 100% moved in disassembled parts in smaller vehicles and similar stuff.
- Ukrainians are already accounting for atleast 10-15% loss in air attacks

Only intel can help. Or massively larger number of sorties - Like deans said russia is increasing sorties to >300. Probably 500 sorties will be required. But acc. to deans analysis - I think russians cap at 300/400 sorties with 500+ planes available. So Russians are already operating at near max in terms of air offence.

Megh · Post by **Megh** » 23 Apr 2022 01:55

One sailor died and 27 more are missing after the Russian missile cruiser Moskva sank last week, while 396 other crew members were rescued.

Reuters

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 Apr 2022 02:04

YashG wrote:
bala wrote: Biden still holds an ace though - he has access to around $100 billion russian dollar reserves. He can give it to ukraine.

you are not joking , are you ? Wont happen and cant happen. Its equal to dollar suicide

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 23 Apr 2022 02:08

kit wrote:
YashG wrote:
you are not joking , are you ? Wont happen and cant happen. Its equal to dollar suicide

Biden will look very bad if Russia looks like winning after he has put so much into this. Will be a political disaster. So not off the table. If he does so, it will be purely to salvage some face. It wont be a dollar suicide - not in the short term. Long term yes.

kit · Post by **kit** » 23 Apr 2022 02:10

brar_w wrote:
ldev wrote: Russia realizes it is futile to waste a USD 25 Million 2 stage ASAT rocket on a $250,000 Starlink satellite.
All based on fake news (also poster here) that Putin had ordered the destructing of starlink under the assumptions that Russia could even pull such a thing off. I mean talk of completely making stuff up and then continuing to push that around as if it were a legitimate thing.

short of a EMP weapon , i dont think they are looking at kinetic kill options. There seems to be "eye watering" reports of Russian jamming that seems to have been so far quite ineffective.

What Musk has created by view of the star link system is part of a worldwide domination in information technological supremacy of US based MNCs, worldwide access to internet with information tech enabled by google, Facebook and co., outside the purview of other governments., what more does America want to control narratives?

bala · Post by **bala** » 23 Apr 2022 02:17

The problem for the Ukr Army is not weapons or fighting force but the supply and logistics portion is pathetic and increasingly the Russians are cutting off any logistics tail attached to them. They are boxed into a circle (chakra vayu) scrounging around for things that keep the armed forces going. Ukr are scoring here and there with drones, NLAWs, stingers, Neptune and so on. I haven't seen a concerted thrust taking away any Russian gained territory yet. Tis all media staged nonsense. Euros and US Deep State are pushing all the old ex-soviet maal into Ukr hands and I think there is some half crazed genius out there musing quietly "see i am using your weapons to spite you".

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 23 Apr 2022 02:32

Y. Kanan wrote: Given that Ukraine has enjoyed a 3:2 advantage in troop #'s from the start (which has now grown to 2:1), they have infinite supplies and vastly superior technology at every level, from anti-tank weapons to MANPAD's to drones, even better communications, night vision gear, real time ELINT & satellite support from the US & NATO

Do you seriously believe that? Do tell us how Ukraine has a superior airforce (qualitatively or quantitatively), superior precision munitions, superior rotary winged capability (transport, attack, CSAR etc), superior UAV and counter UAV capability, superior armor, AEW&C capability, Electronic Warfare/Attack, SEAD/DEAD or long range precision fires (volume and quality of rocket artillery or ballistic missiles) capability, and the accuracy, range and manuever capability of tube artillery etc etc etc. So far they've only launched a handful of subsonic cruise missiles. In fact besides the two that are alleged to have sunk the Russian cruiser, it does not appear that Ukraine has any ground launched cruise missiles. In the first couple of months, they received mostly ATGM's and MANPADS from the west in addition to the TB-2 (which Russia claims to have shot down) and small arms. The heavy stuff has only now begun to be transfered and won't show up on the battlefield for a little while and is likely replacing capability lost in the first phase (so not all is additive).

Let's not pretend that they're getting F-22 raptors, E-3's, medium ranged air-defenses (nothing above MANPADS have been given yet), or latest gen western tanks. Ukraine doesn't even have a functional Navy but I guess they are vastly superior there as well

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 23 Apr 2022 03:12

kit wrote:
brar_w wrote:
All based on fake news (also poster here) that Putin had ordered the destructing of starlink under the assumptions that Russia could even pull such a thing off. I mean talk of completely making stuff up and then continuing to push that around as if it were a legitimate thing.
short of a EMP weapon , i dont think they are looking at kinetic kill options. There seems to be "eye watering" reports of Russian jamming that seems to have been so far quite ineffective.

What Musk has created by view of the star link system is part of a worldwide domination in information technological supremacy of US based MNCs, worldwide access to internet with information tech enabled by google, Facebook and co., outside the purview of other governments., what more does America want to control narratives?

Putin’s plan re Starlink are fake news. Kit you r an oldie here. Can we keep on topic. This is a combat tactics thread.

Mods I will start reporting posts. Among the good insights there is a lot of dross….

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 23 Apr 2022 03:16

bala wrote:The problem for the Ukr Army is not weapons or fighting force but the supply and logistics portion is pathetic and increasingly the Russians are cutting off any logistics tail attached to them. They are boxed into a circle (chakra vayu) scrounging around for things that keep the armed forces going. Ukr are scoring here and there with drones, NLAWs, stingers, Neptune and so on. I haven't seen a concerted thrust taking away any Russian gained territory yet. Tis all media staged nonsense. Euros and US Deep State are pushing all the old ex-soviet maal into Ukr hands and I think there is some half crazed genius out there musing quietly "see i am using your weapons to spite you".

Faced with a superior enemy (no’s /tech) and not knowing if western weaponry would how do you think the Ukrainians went about tactics of engagement?

John · Post by **John** » 23 Apr 2022 03:31

Ukrainians are basically have defensive setup since they don’t have any air cover and out numbered in artillery front. You can get away with inferior #s as a aggressor when you control the air and that has been true all through out history. Ukraine simply cannot maneuver its forces and quickly attack or go in offensive without heavy casualties (just look at how Iraqi counter attacks incl Saudi invasion went during Gulf war).

As for importance of air power, Just look at Yemen (or Afghanistan when US forces where present)where Houthis outnumber the Southern Yemini forces. In spite of being poorly trained and feuding, Houthi have not overrun them simply because of Saudi air power (in spite of all the incompetence).

bala · Post by **bala** » 23 Apr 2022 03:34

how do you think the Ukrainians went about tactics of engagement?

So far, very poorly. I don't think they have a central command control structure for someone to strategize the overall battle plan. So far they are being fed some intel from US deep state and Euros. The Azov guys are a law unto themselves so forget about control for them. The rest of Ukr forces may have a leader here or there who can pull of some minor victories but the forward progress is still not there, they are losing territory. All the Tactics used by Ukr, there is nothing to learn. Only thing is that drones can be put to use.

John · Post by **John** » 23 Apr 2022 03:36

bala wrote:
how do you think the Ukrainians went about tactics of engagement?
So far, very poorly. I don't think they have a central command control structure for someone to strategize the overall battle plan. So far they are being fed some intel from US deep state and Euros. The Azov guys are a law unto themselves so forget about control for them. The rest of Ukr forces may have a leader here or there who can pull of some minor victories but the forward progress is still not there, they are losing territory. All the Tactics used by Ukr, there is nothing to learn. Only thing is that drones can be put to use.

Right now both sides are stuck in a stalemate in-spite of Russian offensive, Russians have run out of steam two or three weeks into an offensive previously will see what happens mid May.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 23 Apr 2022 04:01

One tactic which Ukrainians employed often is go for high value targets. For ex: moskva, ships at ports, generals, command posts, big columns etc.
These ambushes are made high profile and quite a big morale booster for Ukrainians and vice versa for Russians.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 23 Apr 2022 05:13

bala wrote:
how do you think the Ukrainians went about tactics of engagement?
So far, very poorly. I don't think they have a central command control structure for someone to strategize the overall battle plan. So far they are being fed some intel from US deep state and Euros. The Azov guys are a law unto themselves so forget about control for them. The rest of Ukr forces may have a leader here or there who can pull of some minor victories but the forward progress is still not there, they are losing territory. All the Tactics used by Ukr, there is nothing to learn. Only thing is that drones can be put to use.

Define victory from a Ukrainian perspective?
Knowing how Russians approach combat I.e raze everything to the ground.
Even if there is nothing new to learn what universal truths of combat tactics & strategy have been proved right?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Apr 2022 06:27

off topic

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 23 Apr 2022 06:38

Not the right thread Cyrano.
All said and done the Ukrainians have fought the way I expected them to.
The Russians did not.
There is another Ukraine thread for everything else.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 23 Apr 2022 06:39

vinod wrote:One tactic which Ukrainians employed often is go for high value targets. For ex: moskva, ships at ports, generals, command posts, big columns etc.
These ambushes are made high profile and quite a big morale booster for Ukrainians and vice versa for Russians.

Good point

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 23 Apr 2022 10:04

YashG wrote: Only intel can help. Or massively larger number of sorties - Like deans said russia is increasing sorties to >300. Probably 500 sorties will be required. But acc. to deans analysis - I think russians cap at 300/400 sorties with 500+ planes available. So Russians are already operating at near max in terms of air offence.

The Mig 29 & Mig 31 aircraft of the RuAF have a limited ground attack capability, particularly if there's a limitation on smart munitions.
They will also probably be earmarked for CAP over their own airfields, or to escort AWACs.
So, its about 440 Aircraft, of which 50 might be lost or damaged (official loss 25 + assumption of 25 badly damaged).
300 of the remaining 390 may be available to fly on any given day.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 23 Apr 2022 11:35

bala wrote:Is there a cogent reason why the Euros and US Deep State want to flood Ukraine with their weapons and prolong the war even further. This is another "half clever" scheme which is going to end up in failure and more destruction of Ukraine.

They don't care if Ukraine is destroyed. As Meirsheimer says, the west will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. As long as Russia is weakened, the West will be happy, regardless of how many Ukrainians die. If anything, it'll go into their narrative about Russian brutality.

And when this war ends, I suspect the West won't be in much of a hurry to provide the amount of financial aid needed to rebuild what'll be left of Ukraine. I'm sure the mandarins in South Block will be taking notes and lessons from these situations.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 23 Apr 2022 12:00

k prasad wrote:
bala wrote:Is there a cogent reason why the Euros and US Deep State want to flood Ukraine with their weapons and prolong the war even further. This is another "half clever" scheme which is going to end up in failure and more destruction of Ukraine.
They don't care if Ukraine is destroyed. As Meirsheimer says, the west will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. As long as Russia is weakened, the West will be happy, regardless of how many Ukrainians die. If anything, it'll go into their narrative about Russian brutality.

And when this war ends, I suspect the West won't be in much of a hurry to provide the amount of financial aid needed to rebuild what'll be left of Ukraine. I'm sure the mandarins in South Block will be taking notes and lessons from these situations.

Who cares!!!
Is it that difficult to stay on topic?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Apr 2022 13:07

Latest update from RT Telegram channel:

Evening briefing of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the operation in Ukraine:

VKS with high-precision missiles hit 13 military facilities of Ukraine, including two command posts, 11 strongholds and places of concentration of manpower and equipment

as a result of rocket strikes of the Russian Aerospace Forces, up to 2 companies of Ukrainian nationalists, as well as 27 units of armored vehicles and vehicles, were destroyed

Russian Aerospace Forces aviation hit 26 military facilities of Ukraine, including 2 command posts and 21 areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment

Aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces in the areas of the settlements of Toretsky, Komar and Bogatyr destroyed three depots of rocket and artillery weapons of Ukraine

Russian missile troops hit the Ukrainian command post, 5 areas of concentration of manpower and equipment, as well as an artillery battery in a day

Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter, Buk-M1 air defense system and electronic warfare station were destroyed at the field airfield near Barvenkovo

air defense systems destroyed 3 Ukrainian UAVs in the areas of the settlements of Bolshiye Prohody, Shurovka, Kharkiv region

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 23 Apr 2022 13:50

Cyrano wrote:Latest update from RT Telegram channel:

Evening briefing of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the operation in Ukraine:

The people of both Russia and Ukraine have spent decades learning how to read between lines.

Accurate numbers of enemy casualties are most likely a good estimate of own casualties (only POW numbers are fairly reliable).
5 Ukrainian aircraft shot down over Izyum, means the Ukie air force is still functioning.
Ukrainians fighting bravely in location X, despite being outnumbered 10:1, implies that the area has been lost, probably due to some cock up,
that the defence ministry did not predict.
Fierce fighting near XYZ, for the Russians implies they have failed to capture it and for the Ukrainians that they gave lost it.

YashG · Post by **YashG** » 23 Apr 2022 15:04

Cyrano wrote:Latest update from RT Telegram channel:

Evening briefing of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the operation in Ukraine:

VKS with high-precision missiles hit 13 military facilities of Ukraine, including two command posts, 11 strongholds and places of concentration of manpower and equipment

as a result of rocket strikes of the Russian Aerospace Forces, up to 2 companies of Ukrainian nationalists, as well as 27 units of armored vehicles and vehicles, were destroyed

Russian Aerospace Forces aviation hit 26 military facilities of Ukraine, including 2 command posts and 21 areas of concentration of manpower and military equipment

Aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces in the areas of the settlements of Toretsky, Komar and Bogatyr destroyed three depots of rocket and artillery weapons of Ukraine

Russian missile troops hit the Ukrainian command post, 5 areas of concentration of manpower and equipment, as well as an artillery battery in a day

Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter, Buk-M1 air defense system and electronic warfare station were destroyed at the field airfield near Barvenkovo

air defense systems destroyed 3 Ukrainian UAVs in the areas of the settlements of Bolshiye Prohody, Shurovka, Kharkiv region

@deans you should read b/w the lines of this russian briefing.
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This is in total 80 targets hit - If this is a 24 hourly briefing, Russian hit 45-50 targets over last 24 hrs from air, 30 from land. How many sorties do you need to hit 45-50 targets ?

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Apr 2022 15:17

Depending on the type of target, multiple hits may be required, there can be some reconnaissance sorties as well. For RA, destroying them is more important than achieving X number of sorties, imo.