Eastern Europe/Ukraine [Feb 6th 2015]

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 27 Apr 2022 20:36

The horrible dangers of pushing a US proxy war in Ukraine

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/ ... n-ukraine/

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 27 Apr 2022 22:55

Russia is tightening the screws, has shut off gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria.

After acting tough initially, German and Austrian companies have agreed to pay in Euros converted to roubles.

European countries are trying to hide gas supplies.

Meanwhile ruble is higher than it was on Feb 24

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 27 Apr 2022 23:18

Other Eruo countries are supplying oil to Poland and Bulgaria for now. reported on NPR a couple of hours back.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Apr 2022 00:25

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -them.html
holed up Ukr marines plead west to rescue them Dunkirk style

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 28 Apr 2022 01:02

Bulgaria was previously unwilling to sell weapons to Ukraine, partly out of fear of being cutoff from Russian gas.

Now that the gas has been cutoff anyways, they've had a change of heart.

Truly a masterful stroke by Putin.

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/statu ... 7663093760

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 28 Apr 2022 01:06

GeorgeWelch wrote:Bulgaria was previously unwilling to sell weapons to Ukraine, partly out of fear of being cutoff from Russian gas.

Now that the gas has been cutoff anyways, they've had a change of heart.

Truly a masterful stroke by Putin.

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/statu ... 7663093760

Russians are gonna take at least a few more decades of masterful strokes to get to the level of the US. Wait.what was what? 20 years in Afghanistan and still ran away like whipped curs.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 28 Apr 2022 01:36

Bulgaria and Poland have already diversified their gas supplies. Winter is over and Poland has 75% of their storage filled. Poland has LNG terminals and by next winter it is supposed to get gas from a pipeline from Norway. Russia is stopping gas to countries that already don't need it's gas. It looks more like a symbolic gesture as warning to other countries than actually stopping gas to these countries.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/13/ami ... s-pipeline

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 28 Apr 2022 01:56

dnivas wrote:Russians are gonna take at least a few more decades of masterful strokes to get to the level of the US.

Well he's working quite hard at it

- Reinvigorated and expanded NATO
- Accelerated Europe's energy independence from Russia
- Exposed the atrocious state of the Russian military
- Got significant chunks of currency reserves frozen
- Cemented a Ukrainian national identity

Meanwhile Russia's demographics crisis remains among the worst in the world and it continues to suffer a brain drain as its best and brightest flee.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Apr 2022 03:26

GeorgeWelch wrote:Truly a masterful stroke by Putin.

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/statu ... 7663093760

Neither Ukr win nor a Russian win is a given. If anything, all indications are that this will drag on for sometimes going sideways or more like a see-saw.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 28 Apr 2022 06:27

GeorgeWelch wrote:
dnivas wrote:Russians are gonna take at least a few more decades of masterful strokes to get to the level of the US.
Well he's working quite hard at it

- Reinvigorated and expanded NATO
- Accelerated Europe's energy independence from Russia
- Exposed the atrocious state of the Russian military
- Got significant chunks of currency reserves frozen
- Cemented a Ukrainian national identity

Meanwhile Russia's demographics crisis remains among the worst in the world and it continues to suffer a brain drain as its best and brightest flee.

Sure, a failed army war mongering state is talking about winning. Haha. let's count, 3 trillion spent in Afghanstan and another 2 trilion in Iraq.
Let's count the number of years, 20 years in Afghanistan, a country with no air force, no navy and no tanks and yet the super strategic US ran like a dog that was whipped repeatedly. ran away in three days..

Simple exercise, for all the failings of Russia why the hell is the super duper NATO scared and trying to protect the EU states from a failed state like russia.

- Reinvigorated and expanded NATO - EU is now gonna be spending more on weapons and more on commodities. Literally bankrolling the conflict .HAH
- Accelerated Europe's energy independence from Russia - Sure let's talk about this in 2 years
- Exposed the atrocious state of the Russian military - Better than the whipped naked army/navy and AF of the US.hahah
- Got significant chunks of currency reserves frozen - and yet the mangy EU is bankrolling the russians with higher commodity prices. At the tune of 260 Billion a yearm half of the frozen Russian assets can be nationalized.
- Cemented a Ukrainian national identity - Sure half a wretched country that is gonna be a mexico to Germany.

What war has the american war machine actually won in the last 40 years. cowards run back in a few years from everywhere. and they spend trilions on top of it. Shameful

Good you war mongers come here from time to time and we show you how pathetic your warmongering nation is.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 28 Apr 2022 06:44

^^^^ Please, this is not our war and let us not belittle the US to score some brownie points.

Fact is that the US fights in two ways - (i) directly and (ii) firing from others' shoulders. The first hardly works, not because the US is weak but because the enemy is willing to take a much higher casualty count and still doesn't relent. This is what happened in Vietnam, in Iraq and in Afghanistan. The US military is a fighting machine, not a peace making outfit or an administration - so whatever military gains it makes cannot be sustained unless supported by the State.

The US is extremely adept at firing from others' shoulders. This is a classic cold war tactic when the big two didn't go head to head with each other.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 28 Apr 2022 06:52

yensoy wrote:^^^^ Please, this is not our war and let us not belittle the US to score some brownie points.

Fact is that the US fights in two ways - (i) directly and (ii) firing from others' shoulders. The first hardly works, not because the US is weak but because the enemy is willing to take a much higher casualty count and still doesn't relent. This is what happened in Vietnam, in Iraq and in Afghanistan. The US military is a fighting machine, not a peace making outfit or an administration - so whatever military gains it makes cannot be sustained unless supported by the State.

The US is extremely adept at firing from others' shoulders. This is a classic cold war tactic when the big two didn't go head to head with each other.

in a way , it is our war. if the US is able to destabilize Russia, what prevents it from trying the same type of color revolution here. Higher petrol price, now higher palm oil price and supply chain disruptions all over because we have a war mongering nation running roughshod. People have been paying so much the last 2 years because of the CCP virus and now these warmongers go around destablizing the world and they have the gall to come here in this forum and talk about human rights.

if that shameless hack has any morality he should compare the number of deaths by each month in Iraq / vs Ukraine. sick war mongers will never do that. My last post just talked about the how cowardly the US and the UK dogs are, but we have not talked about the millions of casualties these mongers have caused across the planet since 9/11

skumar · Post by **skumar** » 28 Apr 2022 07:20

GeorgeWelch wrote:Bulgaria was previously unwilling to sell weapons to Ukraine, partly out of fear of being cutoff from Russian gas.

Now that the gas has been cutoff anyways, they've had a change of heart.

Truly a masterful stroke by Putin.

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/statu ... 7663093760

The cutoff of Russian gas supply has nothing to with Bulgaria arming Ukraine, Russia is not worried about that. It has to do with their refusal to deposit in Euros in Gazprom account. If they agree to pay like German and Austrian companies, gas supplies will resume.

If I provide you with a real commodity, you cannot pay me in a manner that I am sanctioned from using. The deal between Russia and Bulgaria has nothing to do with the invasion.

Bulgaria will come around in a couple of months.

Najunamar · Post by **Najunamar** » 28 Apr 2022 07:26

Are we going to see a lot of "We will eat grass" Paki type assertions from EU nations? I doubt these soft bellied hypocrites who have always leeched off the Asian and African countries have the strength to practice what they preach. So in about 6 months, we'll see some form of capitulation if not before - as long as Russia can find alternate buyers for oil.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Apr 2022 08:31

I suspect the Russians are waiting for May 22, US , UK and Ukrainians know that. We will see but having followed WW2 Eastern front its generally after 10 May its dry and clear skies, all weapons, Western and Russian will work better. For if 510 Russian aircraft have been lost , atleast 100 of those aircraft would have fallen in Ukraine controlled territory, similarly we the same pics of Tank convoys and trucks. Most of videos of Russian incompetence came in Northern areas near the Kiev advance.

I suspect some Western claims on Russian losses are heavily exaggerated. I am sure Ukraine and West have a plan, I am sure Putin has a plan
Let us see but things on the battlefield will be settled by end of June. The military stalemate will drag on for 3 more months before either Russia or Ukraine on behalf of the USA, decide enough is enough

bala · Post by **bala** » 28 Apr 2022 10:29

Oil is a commodity and currently world consumption exceeds production and hence high per barrel cost. The delta between production and consumption drives oil prices. Tis a simple equation. Producers dictate terms. Europe is a net consumer of oil and gas which indirectly means they cannot declare independence from Russian oil. The produced oil will find consumers somehow and indirectly Europe is dependent no matter what. In this shenanigan, the US dollar loses its pre-eminence as the currency of exchange for oil.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 28 Apr 2022 11:29

Latest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIgpgEhOBwU

(This guy is reporting from Singapore.)

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Apr 2022 11:49

This brings me to my original question. Why is US so intent on destroying Russian power.

Is this objective so worth while that US is prepared to end it's long term global domination.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Apr 2022 12:28

Pratyush wrote:This brings me to my original question. Why is US so intent on destroying Russian power.

Is this objective so worth while that US is prepared to end it's long term global domination.

It wants more control over Europe and access to new resources and in doing so counter China ...and India geo politically.,, it does not want to be in third place by 2050 but wants to change the rules of the game itself.

In effect it wants to establish its hegemony for the next 50 years , i do not think all this is chaos ., but there is an order in that seeming chaos that seems to be oriented towards a particular goal.

"Chaos theory is an interdisciplinary scientific theory and branch of mathematics focused on underlying patterns and deterministic laws highly sensitive to initial conditions in dynamical systems that were thought to have completely random states of disorder and irregularities."

This is very much that and applied to geopolitical equations.

Interestingly India did not play the game, and hence the threats of consequences that means it will be dealt with later . .. take all those smiles and understanding words with a huge bucket of salt for what its worth.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Apr 2022 12:38

Irrespective of whether India plays the game or not they will aim for to be destroyed- they do not have gratitude for those who help thm, India in their Minds can challenge, unlike say the Middle East which does not have the Population food or local Tech.

We did not provoke the Brits to do a Partition nor African countries do anything to them to be kept in a state where they are constantly being destabilized and making full use of the power which will come from their Natural resources.

Large countries with a population and technology , or can be seen as basis of power are seen as threat to their agenda of single Power domination.

So far they have been very soft on PRC.

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 28 Apr 2022 12:38

Pratyush wrote:This brings me to my original question. Why is US so intent on destroying Russian power.

Is this objective so worth while that US is prepared to end it's long term global domination.

We remember the lesson of WWII: Appeasement doesn't work

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 28 Apr 2022 12:41

This war is to maintain US hegemony. Its as simple as that.

Sometimes I feel this actually is a war against Europe by US/UK, they just don't realise it yet. Europe is now a mere slave to US.

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 28 Apr 2022 12:45

vinod wrote:This war is to maintain US hegemony. Its as simple as that.

This is a war to stop Russian aggression against Europe. It's as simple as that.

vinod wrote:Sometimes I feel this actually is a war against Europe by US/UK, they just don't realise it yet. Europe is now a mere slave to US.

no matter how many weapons the US ships to Ukraine, it doesn't make Europe a slave to the US

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 28 Apr 2022 12:56

I had a pooch, why has Russia fielded only 200,000 troops to the entire theatre when they have over 900k troops in total? It seems that as if they are in real dire straits over manpower as it was recently decreed that they would draft troops from conquered/liberated areas of Eastern Ukraine.

Are they afraid of a reptilian entity taking advantage amidst the war, from the east?

Also, they had most of Kiev surrounded, taking Kyiv would have sucked in Ukr-orc troops from all over 'kraine. It would have would have been far easier to then mop up the coast and Russophile areas of the Donbass.

Any thoughts gentle people of the PeeArrrrEffff?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Apr 2022 13:01

Away from bluff & bluster Eu countries are gubo to russia.

Person close to Gazprom says 10 buyers opened ruble accounts

Eu countries scramble to open bank accounts in Moscow to pay in rubles
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -to-russia

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 28 Apr 2022 13:02

https://twitter.com/Aryan_warlord/statu ... jV7hWmXCug Russian forces have taken control of a warehouse with more than 1000 JAVELIN, NLAW & other western weapons. .

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 28 Apr 2022 13:16

George Welch ji, thank you for bringing some much needed humour to this thread !

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 28 Apr 2022 13:47

Maria wrote:I had a pooch, why has Russia fielded only 200,000 troops to the entire theatre when they have over 900k troops in total? It seems that as if they are in real dire straits over manpower as it was recently decreed that they would draft troops from conquered/liberated areas of Eastern Ukraine.

Are they afraid of a reptilian entity taking advantage amidst the war, from the east?

Also, they had most of Kiev surrounded, taking Kyiv would have sucked in Ukr-orc troops from all over 'kraine. It would have would have been far easier to then mop up the coast and Russophile areas of the Donbass.

Any thoughts gentle people of the PeeArrrrEffff?

According to wiki, of those 900k troops, Russian Ground Forces are only 280k (not including reserves). The rest are aerospace forces, rocket forces, navy, airborne forces, special operation forces. It's kind of hard to believe they don't have at least a 500k army. Airborne forces are 50k and if you do the math, the special operation forces will come out to 120 - 150k. They are probably hiding some of the army numbers under other heads or they are not revealing the true numbers. They must have also called up several reserves for the ongoing effort. The reserves are 2 million.

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Apr 2022 13:58

vinod wrote:This war is to maintain US hegemony. Its as simple as that.

Sometimes I feel this actually is a war against Europe by US/UK, they just don't realise it yet. Europe is now a mere slave to US.

Now in a sense its true., US wanted NATO to be rejuvenated and spend more on weapons ..buying from US.. look at the number of F35 orders., Germans are militarising and in a a few years would be among top 5 military spenders ( also Japan) ., all using US tech., second phase is oil and gas , again US is likely to push ahead with exports to Europe., all in all a huge transfer of wealth from Europe to US ., a marshall plan in reverse ! .. and well slave is a just a word ., consequences are immense., the US is trying to reshape the world order to suit its purposes

kit · Post by **kit** » 28 Apr 2022 14:00

Aditya_V wrote:Irrespective of whether India plays the game or not they will aim for to be destroyed- they do not have gratitude for those who help thm, India in their Minds can challenge, unlike say the Middle East which does not have the Population food or local Tech.

We did not provoke the Brits to do a Partition nor African countries do anything to them to be kept in a state where they are constantly being destabilized and making full use of the power which will come from their Natural resources.

Large countries with a population and technology , or can be seen as basis of power are seen as threat to their agenda of single Power domination.

So far they have been very soft on PRC.

PRC s totalitarian model makes it very difficult to manipulate (not that they are not trying, actually they are doing this whichever way possible, but is singularly getting beaten at their own game most of the time)., if you cant beat them., join them.

Cant say the same for India

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Apr 2022 14:15

GeorgeWelch wrote: Appeasement doesn't work

Wrong lesson.

The right lesson is appeasement doesn't work on people seeking to wage a war.

It works on people looking for accommodation.

Putin specifically since 2007. And Russia since 1991 has been seeking accomodation.

It has been getting kicked in the teeth repeatedly.

Or else Putin in 2014 would not have lashed out in the Munich security conference. That he doesn't know how to reach the leadership of western nations.

This war was coming since 2004. When the regime of Leonid Kutchma was overthrown in a US lead coup.

So you are welcome to take your appeasement BS and SHOVE IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE.

This is BRF & we have been following this since Euro Maidan coup. We know what the US has been doing to Russia since 91. Putin started responding to it only after 2007.

Time will prove or disprove the old proverb about Russia. It's never as strong is it looks and it's never as weak as it looks.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Apr 2022 14:25

Truss warns China to ‘play by the rules’ or face consequences

UK foreign secretary says Russia sanctions show west could use economic power against Beijing

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 28 Apr 2022 14:53

Pratyush wrote:Putin specifically since 2007. And Russia since 1991 has been seeking accomodation.

Which is why they invaded Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine twice.

Pratyush wrote:It has been getting kicked in the teeth repeatedly.

Maybe if they would stop invading their neighbors, their neighbors would be more accommodating.

Pratyush wrote:This war was coming since 2004. When the regime of Leonid Kutchma was overthrown in a US lead coup.

So the US which has practically no presence in Ukraine was able to pull off a coup right under the noses of Russia, which has deep ties with Ukraine, impressive.

Even taking this nonsense at face value, so what? That is no excuse for the absolute destruction Russia has been raining on Ukraine.

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 28 Apr 2022 14:55

kit wrote:and well slave is a just a word ., consequences are immense., the US is trying to reshape the world order to suit its purposes

Just a reminder, this is all the result of Russia's actions. If they never invaded Ukraine a second time, none of this would have happened.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 28 Apr 2022 14:58

GeorgeWelch,

I am poorly read. Could you please explain the Monroe Doctrine to me. Please!

P.S, Distance in miles from US of

Ethiopia

Angola

Mozambique

Yemen

Syria..............

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Apr 2022 15:06

George Welch,

When was Georgia invaded. Before or after 2007?

Yes / no.

No more.

Then I will answer to your so what in a separate post.

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 28 Apr 2022 15:17

Lisa wrote:I am poorly read. Could you please explain the Monroe Doctrine to me. Please!

Even if there was some shadowy support for a coup, the new leaders represented legitimate Ukrainian interests and were clearly no puppet state

Russia was just upset that their puppet got kicked to the curb.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 28 Apr 2022 15:28

NRao wrote:Truss warns China to ‘play by the rules’ or face consequences

UK foreign secretary says Russia sanctions show west could use economic power against Beijing

Truss is the Sanjay Raut of UK: make statements disconnected from reality. She has also asked for Ukraine to throw Russia out from all of Ukraine including Crimea, and eastern regions.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 28 Apr 2022 15:37

GeorgeWelch wrote:
Lisa wrote:I am poorly read. Could you please explain the Monroe Doctrine to me. Please!
Even if there was some shadowy support for a coup, the new leaders represented legitimate Ukrainian interests and were clearly no puppet state

Russia was just upset that their puppet got kicked to the curb.

You have politely sidestepped the question as answering it puts all your opinions to waste.

Lets try another,

500,000 dead in Tigray in the last year or so. Direct me to just ONE post you have EVER written on it. If not, then why not? The fact that they are Black and ukranians are White is just a coincidence?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Apr 2022 15:40

GeorgeWelch wrote:
Even if there was some shadowy support for a coup, the new leaders represented legitimate Ukrainian interests and were clearly no puppet state

Russia was just upset that their puppet got kicked to the curb.

Really, Ukraine was ruled by people having legitimately Ukrainian interests at heart?

1) Is that why Biden could get the prosecutor looking into Burisma fired, because his son was on the board of that company?

2) Russia was Ukraine's largest trading partner before the coup. How is ending that relationship with the coup in Ukrainians internet.

3) Why was Trump impeached the first time?

4) Why did the language of 30 % Ukrainians lost the official language status after 2014. Something that had existed since 1991.

5) why do you think that the people who are not prepared to accept a particular language will accept the speakers of that language in their midst? Were you born yesterday?

6) why was Minsk 2 accord not implemented by Ukraine in the 7 years that accord existed.

You may have been born yesterday son. We were not.