Russian / Ukranian Combat Tactics

[ks_sachin]

We're barely half way into this war, too many loose ends remain in Ukraine.

Odessa, Transnistria, Ukr N power plants, NeoNazis, elensly, who/what comes after him?, Poland etc...

But first, we should get Donbas and Luhansk under control Comrade..nyet?

Once that is done though, we shall make short work of Odessa and through that access Transnistria as we can use that port to land Naval infantry.
We could bomb some Ukranian Nuclear plants and radiate the NeoNazis and elensly..The anti-proletariat decadent West and its vassal NATO will come begging on its knees.

The Poles can be taken care of easily. Just deny them potatoes and they will be starved of Pierogi. That will surely teach them...

[Tanaji]

On the contrary, victorious Ukranian divisions will soon be marching into the Red Square accompanied by a fly past of TB2 drones.

[brar_w]

But first, we should get Donbas and Luhansk under control Comrade..nyet?

Once that is done though, we shall make short work of Odessa and through that access Transnistria as we can use that port to land Naval infantry.
We could bomb some Ukranian Nuclear plants and radiate the NeoNazis and elensly..The anti-proletariat decadent West and its vassal NATO will come begging on its knees.

The Poles can be taken care of easily. Just deny them potatoes and they will be starved of Pierogi. That will surely teach them...

Need to spare a few BTG's to teach Finland and Sweden a lesson (probably throw Norway in for good measure).

[Deans]

Lost in this sense means no longer in combat so 40,000 including dead and wounded seems about right given the high amount vehicle lost if you compare with other conflicts.

Unless T-72 series, BMP/BMD and Russian cargo trucks by magic have better crew safety around 2000+ losses could easily equate those numbers. This all that is documented we have good chunk that has towed back to Russia that no one has count of that.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/a ... t.html?m=1

I agree that 40k would be KIA, WIA and MIA/POW, which would be a reasonable estimate, for an attacking side in a 80 day war of this intensity.
The US estimate for Ukrainian KIA & WIA is around 30,000, I would assume the defenders suffer lower casualties.

Some of the wounded would return to action and first line Russian reserves of men and equipment would probably be able to replace losses so far, assuming that was planned for. However, their quality and ability to be integrated into frontline units would be a question mark.

[Cyrano]

LoL ! Russia may very well decide that Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson etc are enough for now. But it will have left intact several thousand AFU troops dug in facing Donbass that will claim holding off RA as victory, and elensly & the NNazis will get round 2 of VC, crowd funding and IPO. They will have to be dealt with - as they are now or n armed a couple of years down the line.

Russia is hesitant to make this an all out brutal war because of brother nation cr@p. But the way things are going, it won't have a choice but to dial it up all the way. Wars cant follow the coyotes interrupted model.

[Deans]

4 hours old tweet

If one went by social media and "unconfirmed" tweets and telegram posts, it would appear that NATO (US, British, Canadian, and probably half a dozen other western militaries have had high ranking officers captured based on these dubious accounts), or US has no high ranking officer left and they were all hiding in Ukraine and are being picked up one at a time. Again, provide official source and confirmations and not this crap.

If even a retired corporal from any NATO country was captured, he would be on prime time TV on Russian channels (as has happened with 2 men from the UK who were captured).

[brar_w]

DL and K should be taken care of in the next couple of weeks given the Ukrainians don't know how to fight and all the Candian Generals (masters at urban warfare) coordinating their failed fight have been captured. So we should be. all done by the end of the month or early June if that's only the objective. Will leave the NNazis in rest of Ukraine, Europe, US, and elsewhere but that can come after a short break of say 2-3 weeks to re-group build back the BTG's and munition stockpiles.

If one went by social media and "unconfirmed" tweets and telegram posts, it would appear that NATO (US, British, Canadian, and probably half a dozen other western militaries have had high ranking officers captured based on these dubious accounts), or US has no high ranking officer left and they were all hiding in Ukraine and are being picked up one at a time. Again, provide official source and confirmations and not this crap.

If even a retired corporal from any NATO country was captured, he would be on prime time TV on Russian channels (as has happened with 2 men from the UK who were captured).

That they aren't being paraded on prime time TV or any of it being confirmed by official MFA press releases is immaterial to to the "true believers". Because all these dozen or so retired officers didn't parade themselves or do press-events because some telegram or other Russian SM movement claimed they were captured is enough proof that they were indeed captured. That's how all this works.

BTW, what's the tally of senior serving and retired NATO and former NATO generals having been captured by Telegram users? 10? Their prime-time trials should be quite a sight and would put the whole Gary Powers saga to shame. We'll see irrefutable proof any day now.

[Cyrano]

Russian TV reporting 51 wounded evacuated from Azovstal today, lets see if any names come out.

Its also reported that a group of 7 US citizen were KIA near Rubiznye, ID of one of them was displayed. Those interested can dig and find out.

Just because NATO would have paraded high value POW captured doesnt mean Russia must do the same, arguing since its not doing so, ergo they have none is once again, "projection".

[brar_w]

Yes they don't need to come out with proof or even a press release claiming that they've captured half a dozen NATO current or retired Generals or that Canadian generals were coordinating the (futile) urban resistance. Just a random post on Telegram is enough for the "true believers". We don't need further evidence.

[morem]

why the eff are indians arguing over who is winning the war? How is all of this combat tactics?

[Cyrano]

Absolutely, Russia is not waging this war on SM or for SM geezers like us, unlike the Kiev regime. Keep those prize catches out of public eye and use them for negotiation of PoW exchanges or if they have committed some serious crimes, try them in their courts. We are trying to piece together some picture based on whatever scraps trickle out in the sea of propaganda flotsam from Kiev.

[Atmavik]

On the contrary, victorious Ukranian divisions will soon be marching into the Red Square accompanied by a fly past of TB2 drones.

Zelensky will be the new president of the re created Soviet Union

[brar_w]

So no proof should be expected because it’s all being kept secret (outside of a few privileged telegram super users apparently) so that they can be used for negotiations. Got it!

[habal]

Ukraine armed forces destroys dam to impede Russian progress downstream. But what about civilians downstream ?? How will they escape this flash flood. It is a consistent pattern from Ukraine to indulge in flagrant human rights violations for minor gains.

the drowned civilians will be passed off later as Russian soldiers or victims of Russian advance.

https://twitter.com/AggregateOsint/stat ... Umi1R7zaRg

[Cyrano]

No one is obliged to provide proofs brar ji, the world has stopped expecting proof of Iraqi WMD for instance... any claim is OK in a war as per time honoured traditions. How much the world believes depends on claimant's photoshop proficiency.

[brar_w]

No one is obliged to provide proofs brar ji..

So we have no means of verifying claims made by random telegram handles that close to a dozen NATO serving or retired generals have been captured? And because no one is obliged to provide proof we won't ever know and thus have to just believe it when this sort of unverified crap gets posted and repeated without any sort of corroborating evidence. In that case what do you make of the claim that Gerasimov has been captured in Kharkiv and the one pretending to be Gerasimov in Russia is actually his twin brother Andrei?

[Cyrano]

Don't believe it, who is forcing you to? I believe them because they came along with video footage or photos which -to my eyes- didn't look staged or photoshopped.

Tell me, do you believe the CNN story of 2 civilians shot in the back by RA soldiers to be true or not? Don't duck this simple question, just yes or no will do.

[Cyrano]

The only Gerasimov I followed so far is Yulia

[John]

Everyone please stick to topic which is combat tactics not politics.

Anyway this video (has been geolocated and confirmed) confirms Ukraine has captured north of Kharkiv all the way upto Russian border.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video ... rder-video

[ldev]

https://t.me/strelkovii/2557

Igor Girkin in his latest post says that the Donbass offensive has failed.

[brar_w]

I wonder how ^^ will impact combat tactics for operations into Transnistria , Poland and possibly Finland/Sweden.

[Pratyush]

Ukraine armed forces destroys dam to impede Russian progress downstream. But what about civilians downstream ?? How will they escape this flash flood. It is a consistent pattern from Ukraine to indulge in flagrant human rights violations for minor gains.

the drowned civilians will be passed off later as Russian soldiers or victims of Russian advance.

https://twitter.com/AggregateOsint/stat ... Umi1R7zaRg

Or perhaps they were ethnic Russians living in Ukraine. So those don't count.

[ldev]

I wonder how ^^ will impact combat tactics for operations into Transnistria , Poland and possibly Finland/Sweden.

I know, even Igor Girkin has admitted that in the Kharkov/Kharkiv sector Ukranian Forces have reached the Russian border in places.

[John]

I stated at the started of the invasion and even two months back If Russia had focused the ops in the east to start out with and holding 50 BTGs in north and south to deter any Ukr forces from moving down there from Kyiv and Kherson to assist in the invasion. They could have probably achieved a lot more success.

They could have captured both areas in a week or two. Now they are fighting with worn out of forces against both the exsisting defenses as well as reinforcements from Kyiv and Kharkiv.

I know the case was made due to heavy defenses in the east deterred this approach as it was seen easier to capture/surround Kyiv to force a surrender and/or attack the eastern forces from the rear. But I believe the true reason was Russia was over ambitious in wanting to capture/control Ukraine.

[ldev]

NATO has a tricky situation on it's hand going forward. Elements of the Ukranian forces are likely to be hell bent on recovering all of Ukranian territory including the Crimea and if that results in a larger war involving NATO they will welcome it. I would suspect that any Ukranian push into territory held by Russia either in the Donbass/Lunhansk area or into Crimea (Russian occupied territory before the start of current hostilities in Feb 2022) will be a red line for Russia with fears that given the weak condition of it's conventional forces, Russia could resort to tactical nukes. The only leverage that NATO has is equipment and munition supplies (and ISR??) which will likely be calibrated such that it is enough to roll back Russia to the start line of it's current offensive but not enough for Ukrainian offensive operations beyond that.

[brar_w]

The absolute best case scenario for Ukraine is to get back to the Feb 2022 status quo. Its political leadership had said as much. Even that may not be militarily achievable so for them to build military objectives of going to pre 2014 levels is not likely to happen. As things currently stand we are likely to see a frozen conflict out in the east with neither side having decisive advantage to effect rapid territorial change without significant attrition. Western Drones, loitering munitions, ATGMs and most importantly 155mm howitzers and rounds have meant that there is now (or soon will be) rough parity in terms of men and firepower for ground units deployed in the East (though Russia enjoys clear superiority in air and sea) which makes rapid gains very difficult because small changed can be contested. Not sure who has the advantage here but a long drawn out tactical battle is likely not favorable to the attacker (I’m using attacker her to refer to both Russia that invaded Ukraine but also the UA units who may launch counter attacks with Russian units dug in). Without mobilization which itself has a lead time, I seriously doubt Russia has the ability to rapidly take over the East and South so territory exchanges, attacks and counter attacks are par for the course here during this phase. Which goes to my point earlier that there are simply not enough BTGs to both win battles in East and South of Ukraine and grab Transnistria while also invading Finland and Sweden to prevent NATO expansion and to de-nazify them so if part of the rationale of invading Ukraine was to prevent NATO expansion then that had just fallen flat with Finland and Sweden soon to be the latest NATO members with capable armed forces.

[Cyrano]

Russia invading Finland and Sweden is scaremongering agit prop by the US. Unless NATO parks serious offensive forces and weapons in those countries there is no causus belli for Russia. They can make threats if these two join NATO but can't act on them. Russian officials have stated as much.

While talking about Russian BTGs, the militias of D & L who are as combat experienced as their enemy AFU are conveniently left out. Russian operation is an alliance - there's a reason why they call it so. I'm sure worthies here know it fully well but keep pushing disingenuous narratives.

I believe Russia is starting to get bogged down, not because of lacking capabilities but due to its unwillingness to go into full brutal annihilation mode instead of grinding attrition which AFU bankrolled by NATO is able to suicidally resist. How long they will last is hard to say. Russia needs to find a tipping point or change of gear.

Wonder if Ukranians have paused to think why the NATO doors have opened so quickly for Sweden and Finland but they have to pay hell just to stand in the queue !!! But if they had so much brains they would not have become neonazis who sold their mother land to the US.

[bala]

An ammonium nitrate storage facility in Kharkiv Oblast was hit by Russian missile. The shelling and following explosion produced lots of smoke that turned red. On May 15, Russia launched missile strikes on Ukraine's western Lviv Oblast from submarines in the Black Sea. Four hit a military facility in the Yavoriv district near the Ukrainian-Polish border and completely destroyed it.

[brar_w]

Unless NATO parks serious offensive forces and weapons in those countries there is no causus belli for Russia. They can make threats if these two join NATO but can't act on them. Russian officials have stated as much.

Joining NATO means that the armed forces of these two will be integrated with it which means their forces are NATO forces and a shared C2. It also means periodic NATO exercises on those territories and regular US and nato troop rotations there to participate in those exercises. But I agree the line has moved from NATO expansion to NATO expansion PLUS NATO strategic weapons which are unlikely to be put in Sweden jn Finland because they aren’t needed there (you can provide strategic capability w/o need for them deployed there). So I suppose crisis averted and the BTGs that would have invaded Sweden and Finland (If NATO expansion was a red line) can help with the offensive in the Donbas and other offensives TBD.

Wonder if Ukranians have paused to think why the NATO doors have opened so quickly for Sweden and Finland

Not much of a pause needed to realize why Sweden and Finland can move so quickly while Ukraine was as a best case a decade or more away. Finland and Sweden are both EU and both have strong bilateral ties to individual NATO nations and equipment that is very easy to integrate with NATO. Not to mention that both are NATO enhanced opportunity partners.

[Raja]

Wonder if Ukranians have paused to think why the NATO doors have opened so quickly for Sweden and Finland but they have to pay hell just to stand in the queue !!! But if they had so much brains they would not have become neonazis who sold their mother land to the US.

Why do you insist on continuing to post your drivel in this thread which is about combat tactics?

[venkat_r]

[Avtar Singh]

I think the Russians are playing this perfectly, time is on their side.

If it drags on for them all well and good.

I am sure they would like it to end pretty fast but they have managed to do all
their heavy lifting during the best time of year..

Eventually they will play their Trump card = winter

Heating for the western european households, which will have been softened up by then.

Not to mention what winter will mean for ukraine fighting forces having been under assault for months.

Russians are masters when it comes to fighting in winter.
This type of weather and their massive open spaces have always been their ultimate weapon...

That is before you factor in their guts for fighting and dying...

What did the Russian General say... the enemy is that way, if you come back we will shoot you

https://spartacus-educational.com/GERguderian.htm

congelation of the anus....


That winter the German Army lost 100,000 soldiers through frostbite. "They did not necessarily die of it, but lost limbs or had their ears, toes and fingers turn black, ballooning like cauliflowers, and had to be hospitalised, and were out of the battle." Guderian recorded a temperature of minus 36 degrees: "Our men just stand about miserably burning the precious petrol to keep warm... Several times we found sentries fallen asleep, literally frozen to death... Many men died while performing their natural functions, as a result of a congelation of the anus".


Guderian was shocked by the stout resistance of the Red Army and as the severe Russian winter set in he made a limited withdrawal to better defensive ground. Guderian then returned to Germany where he argued with Adolf Hitler about the tactics being employed. After further disagreements with General Fedor von Bock and General Gunther von Kluge, On 25th December 1941 Guderian was dismissed from office.

[venkat_r]

There is no patent on winter fighting by the Russian army, also such statements pose lack of understanding that Ukraine was part of Russia and the red army contained all these Russian people, going by the events so far, there is little encouragement for Russian side on the gains and if anything an embarrassment at being beaten back by a tiny Ukraine army and a bunch of farmers.

[brar_w]

Worth reminding that Ukrainians (both military and civilian) had amongst the highest per capita casualty rates or all USSR in WW2. More than 1.5 million of its soldiers died in that war, second only to Russia that lost more than 6.5 million. Also worth noting that Ukraine knows its winters just as well or better than Russia knows its winters and is the defender which is very different from the atacking German forces of WW2. Finally, you ideally need a 3:1 advantage in men, material and firepower as an attacking force against a defensive force that is dug in. Without mobilization, Russia will not get anywhere close to that and it will remain a closer to 1:1 ratio in several sectors which can and will result in territory exchanges and counter attacks. Such a frozen state does not advantage anyone in the greater scheme of things though if you are a much smaller neighbor with a lot smaller and less capable armed forces (and have air and sea power stacked against you) then you will be happy with that outcome or at least learn to accept it.

[IndraD]

can't believe BBC type propaganda is being posted here ...

[m_saini]

can't believe BBC type propaganda is being posted here ...

*Channelling my inner Greta*

HOW DARE YOU!?!?!?

[John]

Looks like deal has been worked out for Ukrainian forces in Mariupol to surrender, wounded are being taken to hospital near Mariupol. The total count per RT is 300 far cry from thousands claimed to holed up (sorry no 70 yr ex NATO general where among them ).

https://twitter.com/archer83able/status ... 1Zz0H8A8vg

https://twitter.com/militarylandnet/sta ... 1Zz0H8A8vg

[venkat_r]

Why is this space reserved for Russian propaganda or the “hidden” truths



Some of the pictures shows the devastation done by the Russian pigs

[Yagnasri]

UKNs were also supporting the German army in WW2 in a big way. Just saying.

[ManuJ]

UKNs were also supporting the German army in WW2 in a big way. Just saying.

Please keep the humor coming.