Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

kit · Post by **kit** » 13 Oct 2022 13:17

chetak wrote:
NRao wrote:Well ......

NATO Chief on Russia-Ukraine conflict: Putin's win will be a defeat for all of us

A Russia victory would be a defeat for NATO. That from the Sec Gen of NATO.

why the german chancellor is so hell bent on doing the ameriki bidding is a bit mystifying. Prolonged energy shortage will cause a significant amount of deindustrialization for germany, dropping standards of living and wages and all the turbulence that follows in the wake of a economic slowdown.

the german defense budget will spike sharply as they turn inward and rearm themselves to de-risk the tepid NATO support in case the proverbial hits the fan

Remember, America has all the European leadership culled and contained. Most likely they have some nice "revelations" wrt Scholtz as well. When they crack the whip , they have to dance.

also there was some mud regarding our macron buddy that got out.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 13 Oct 2022 19:01

Kyiv hit by Iranian-made kamikaze drones; Admission of Ukraine to NATO can lead to third world war, says Russian official

Ukraine’s capital region was struck by Iranian-made kamikaze drones early Thursday, officials said, sending rescue workers rushing to the scene as residents awoke to air raid sirens for the fourth consecutive morning following Russia’s major assault across the country earlier this week. It wasn’t yet clear if there were any casualties in those attacks, but Ukrainian officials said that 13 people were killed and 37 wounded over the past 24 hours in the Russian strikes throughout the country.

In a separate development, a top Russian official told the state TASS news agency in an interview Thursday said the admission of Ukraine to NATO, a long-standing project of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, can lead to third world war. “Kyiv is well aware that such a step would mean a guaranteed escalation to a World War Three,” said Alexander Venediktov, the deputy secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Oct 2022 19:07

chetak wrote:
Tanaji wrote:Chetakji,
Warm welcome back. Even Raghuram Rajan missed you….
Thanks, Tanaji saar.
The blood boils when one hears him pontificating on runditeevee and on karan thappad's show, pushing his snake oil remedies.

Welcome back chetak

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 13 Oct 2022 19:26

Rakesh wrote:
chetak wrote: Thanks, Tanaji saar.
The blood boils when one hears him pontificating on runditeevee and on karan thappad's show, pushing his snake oil remedies.
Welcome back chetak

Thank you Sirji.

Nice to be back.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 13 Oct 2022 19:54

https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/158 ... jEe9Y0zKHA
a mig29 of Ukr goes down against Shaheed drone of Iran

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 13 Oct 2022 20:54

IndraD wrote:https://twitter.com/200_zoka/status/158 ... jEe9Y0zKHA
a mig29 of Ukr goes down against Shaheed drone of Iran

More than 1 source conformed the Ukr Mig-29 was downed. One explanation is it shot down the drone, but fragments of the drone hit the MiG.
Interestingly Ukraine has reportedly lost 3 aircraft during the drone hunting. There is speculation that the Russians are using drones to get Ukr
aircraft to show themselves and fall into a trap set by SU-35s with longer range missiles.

Russia is also said to be using Air to air missiles as decoys - spoofing Ukr air defences into believing that they are larger missiles aimed at ground
targets).

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 13 Oct 2022 21:39

there is so much to learn here w.r.t combat strategy. Was the mig29 trying to shoot the drone with a cannon ? or is it r73? why did even need a fighter for drone hunting? could they have used MANPAD or AAM? Or do they consider those more valuable than Mig 29?
Also it seems to be analogous to indian mig21 falling after a fragment of f16 that was shot down post balakot.

Parasu · Post by **Parasu** » 14 Oct 2022 01:48

chetak wrote:The germans already have a massive social load of a freeloading militant mid east refugee population that will precipitate massive law and order problems when they see their social entitlements being whittled down by the state

Sorry for the off-topic comment but there are very few mid-east migrants among those illegals. Most of them are Pakistanis and Afghans.

sohamn · Post by **sohamn** » 14 Oct 2022 03:59

gakakkad wrote:there is so much to learn here w.r.t combat strategy. Was the mig29 trying to shoot the drone with a cannon ? or is it r73? why did even need a fighter for drone hunting? could they have used MANPAD or AAM? Or do they consider those more valuable than Mig 29?
Also it seems to be analogous to indian mig21 falling after a fragment of f16 that was shot down post balakot.

first of all India claims that our Mig 21 was shot by another F-16 using AMRAAMS which was prohibited, so dont spread other rumours

Regarding the Mig 29 vs drone, it can't understand how the drone shot that Mig 29. Clearly the Mig 29 used an AAM at medium ranges, does a drone have such a strong radar to shoot down an Aircraft at BVR distances. I think perhaps these Mig's are getting lured to hunt drones and get shot down with other long range AAMs. The drones are just a trojan proxy.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Oct 2022 07:19

Parasu wrote:
chetak wrote:The germans already have a massive social load of a freeloading militant mid east refugee population that will precipitate massive law and order problems when they see their social entitlements being whittled down by the state
Sorry for the off-topic comment but there are very few mid-east migrants among those illegals. Most of them are Pakistanis and Afghans.

You are absolutely right Parasu ji.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 14 Oct 2022 08:23

sohamn wrote:
gakakkad wrote:there is so much to learn here w.r.t combat strategy. Was the mig29 trying to shoot the drone with a cannon ? or is it r73? why did even need a fighter for drone hunting? could they have used MANPAD or AAM? Or do they consider those more valuable than Mig 29?
Also it seems to be analogous to indian mig21 falling after a fragment of f16 that was shot down post balakot.
first of all India claims that our Mig 21 was shot by another F-16 using AMRAAMS which was prohibited, so dont spread other rumours

Regarding the Mig 29 vs drone, it can't understand how the drone shot that Mig 29. Clearly the Mig 29 used an AAM at medium ranges, does a drone have such a strong radar to shoot down an Aircraft at BVR distances. I think perhaps these Mig's are getting lured to hunt drones and get shot down with other long range AAMs. The drones are just a trojan proxy.

If true it would mean the Russians have found way to take these aircraft down with NATO AWACS coverage, the warning from NATO Assets, aircraft own RWR is too late or never happened so the Mig 29 got shit down. Has the Su 57 been deployed which the NATO AWACS is not able to detect?

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 14 Oct 2022 08:43

Aditya_V wrote:
If true it would mean the Russians have found way to take these aircraft down with NATO AWACS coverage, the warning from NATO Assets, aircraft own RWR is too late or never happened so the Mig 29 got shit down. Has the Su 57 been deployed which the NATO AWACS is not able to detect?

NATO cannot provide AWAC coverage of all of Ukrainian airspace (only the Western half).
It is Russian AWAC's that can detect incoming Ukr aircraft who are going drone hunting. It is also a tacit admission that so far, they are unable to
counter Iranian drones by jamming, or ground based fire.

As per Russian twitter channels. Russia has used the SU-57 for limited missions.
More significantly, Russia is using a new EW aircraft, the TU-214R (called the eye of Sauron). It is supposedly a more advanced version of the
Boeing JSTARS. It can identify and counter radar & radio communications 400 km away and monitor ground targets. The Ru Air force has only 2. They were used in Syria.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 14 Oct 2022 09:02

I think NATO has been rather active in the Black Sea area.

This is from May, 2022:

Having said that Russia is extremely good at electronics. And, has had time - since 2014 - to game the situation.

Has the Su 57 been deployed which the NATO AWACS is not able to detect?

It is not that 5th gen assets, at distance, cannot be "seen", they are very hard to lock on to at distance.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 14 Oct 2022 12:40

Read on a telegram channel that the Mig29 crashed due to ingestion of debris from the drone it shot down. Plausible, the pilot could have gotten close to the drone to use cannon instead of firing some costly missile or two which can have lock-on problems given the defenceless drone's small size and weak heat signature. Given the large differential in velocities, and alignment of trajectories at close distance required for using cannon, ingestion of debris is a big risk.

The question is, why use a Mig29 for killing a drone? My guess: The fighter was already airborne and was vectored in or went after an opportunistic target it happened to detect.

We should thank UkAF for giving us a free demonstration that its not worth sending fighters after such drones and that under certain conditions the fighter can be lost.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 14 Oct 2022 21:03

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/does-the- ... ave-a-plan
Does the United States Have a Plan in Ukraine?
American officials keep insisting they won't negotiate with Russia, but now they're also leaking a belief that Ukraine can't win. Is this 4-D chess, or cluelessness? Or is there no plan at all?

Fifteen years ago, in a July 2007 Democratic primary debate in Charleston, South Carolina, Senator Barack Obama won applause by saying sure, he’d meet with the leaders of countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea. “The notion that somehow not talking the country is punishment to them” was ridiculous, he said, adding even JFK and Reagan were willing to talk to the Soviets.

“They understood that we may not trust them, and they may pose an extraordinary danger,” Obama said. “But we have the obligation to find areas where we can potentially move forward.”

These dynamics resurfaced in a confusing way this week. To no one’s surprise the Biden administration continued to say it won’t negotiate with Russia, but it suddenly also began leaking a belief that it doesn’t think fighting will work, either. If both strategies are off the table, what exactly are we doing?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 15 Oct 2022 02:40

Desperate Conditions For Ukrainians Trapped In Besieged Bakhmut

https://www.rferl.org/a/desperate-condi ... 77070.html

Bakhmut has been taken back by Wagners several Ukrops trapped

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 15 Oct 2022 09:38

Another batch

Biden administration authorizes $725 million in additional security assistance for Ukraine

The Biden administration authorized an additional $725 million dollars in security aid for Ukraine Friday, as the country recovers from Russia’s recent barrage of missile attacks on civilian targets.

The Presidential Drawdown includes “munitions, arms and equipment from US Department of Defense inventories,” Secretary of State Antony Blinken said in a statement Friday.

The assistance includes High-speed Anti-Radiation Missiles (HARMs), anti-tank weapons and small arms as well ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) and small arms, according to a press release from the Department of Defense. The aid package also provides medical supplies, more than 200 high mobility vehicles, and thousands of artillery rounds and rounds of Remote Anti-Armor Mine (RAAM) systems.

kit · Post by **kit** » 15 Oct 2022 10:01

NATO is getting more and more involved to the point that it is hard to deny this is a direct conflict between Russia and NATO. The US MIC is probably salivating at such a prospect. They have both the Dems and Rep under their thumb now.

Forget sanity. The collective west is inching towards nuclear annihilation.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 15 Oct 2022 14:03

Major ground offensive in kherson . Wagner and Russian army both vs whoever is fighting for Ukraine these dins.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 15 Oct 2022 14:59

Russian Officials Quit in Droves After Conscripted Colleague Killed—Report
https://www.newsweek.com/russian-officials-quit-1751949

there is never ending barrage of fake news on war, muting the other side while blaring propaganda on speakers in all direction in West at least convinces their own audience

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 15 Oct 2022 15:04

Russia will use more drones

Russia needs to ramp up the production of various types of drones after they have demonstrated their combat effectiveness in the ongoing military conflict between Moscow and Kiev, the Deputy Chairman of Russia’s Security Council Dmitry Medvedev has said.

Writing on his Telegram channel on Friday, Medvedev, who previously served as the country's president, said that “UAVs have proven their effectiveness in modern conflicts. Their use in the special military operation zone is an urgent need.”

He went on to state that Russia has yet to establish large-scale production of various types of drones. Medvedev also said had recently visited the St. Petersburg “Special Technological Center” to conduct an inspection of the supply of ‘Orlan’ reconnaissance drones ordered by the Russian government.

Russia’s use of drones as well as this week’s massive missile strikes on targets across Ukraine have prompted the Kiev government to reiterate their demands that Western countries must supply the Ukrainian military with more anti-aircraft weapons.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 15 Oct 2022 16:47

gakakkad wrote:Major ground offensive in kherson . Wagner and Russian army both vs whoever is fighting for Ukraine these dins.

It is the most serious attempt to retake Kherson to date. The last offensive resulted in a Russian retreat to shorten their front. That retreat also freed Ukrainian forces trapped in a salient across the Inhulets river.

It is probably Ukraine's last attempt because a week from now, the rain will make the ground too wet for off road movement of heavy vehicles
and by then newly mobilized Russian troops will nullify Ukraine's numerical advantage. It is speculated that Ukraine needs a victory before the US
mid term elections (8 Nov).
Some civilians are being evacuated from Kherson. That led to speculation that Russia was abandoning the city. They have clarified that its to reduce civilian casualties from shelling and also the volume of supplies that have to move across the Dnieper bridge and ferries.

Regular Russian army units are defending. Ukraine is estimated to have between 30 & 60,000 men on the Kherson front, but in the actual area they are attacking (north East part of Kherson front) 3 brigades have been identified.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 15 Oct 2022 16:53

Kherson turning pro-Russia openly and with a big majority has pissed off Ukrainians a lot, they were really not expecting this city to go the Donbass way. If ever they take Kherson, they will kill every civilian they can lay hands on as "collaborators and traitors". That is one more reason for Russians to evacuate civilians.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 15 Oct 2022 17:46

Wake Up, Germany! Reports Say Berlin’s Ammo Would Last ‘Only 2 Days In A War’ While It Continues To Arm Ukraine https://eurasiantimes.com/wake-up-germa ... ly-2-days/

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 15 Oct 2022 20:52

. It is speculated that Ukraine needs a victory before the US
mid term elections (8 Nov).

Regardless of the actual outcomes , things will be spun as Ukraine victory

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 15 Oct 2022 20:57

Genuine newbie pooch - if even Iran can make loitering drones, why can’t we?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 15 Oct 2022 21:19

V_Raman wrote:Genuine newbie pooch - if even Iran can make loitering drones, why can’t we?

Who says we can't or have not !! I doubt it's technically that hard . But it's tough to come up with even something simple that you've not done before and mass manufacture.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 15 Oct 2022 23:32

V_Raman wrote:Genuine newbie pooch - if even Iran can make loitering drones, why can’t we?

Indian loitering munitions have been ordered by IA.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 16 Oct 2022 00:40

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/stat ... j1tfURD4Ug A literal, Hitler-admiring Nazi founded the NAFO propaganda operation (which is publicly supported by the US government to wage information war on Russia)

it appears founder of NAFO (bot army of NATO) was a Nazi based in Poland, his identity got blown! All of them are US funded & backed

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 16 Oct 2022 06:58

UkraineNews @Ukraine66251776
Russia is firing Brahmos missiles from Crimea to #Kherson

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 16 Oct 2022 07:14

That looks to be a Russian account tweeting that. Didn't realize that Brahmos exports were already under way.

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 16 Oct 2022 07:42

11 dead, 15 wounded in "terrorist attack" on Russian military site
US wants Ukraine to be Russia's Afganistan. The question that i have is who will be the pakistan? Can EU take that position? Can it afford the cost?

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 16 Oct 2022 08:03

madhu wrote:The question that i have is who will be the pakistan?

Ans: Poland.

Can it afford the cost?

The cost will be paid by the US.

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 16 Oct 2022 10:18

Roop wrote:
madhu wrote:The question that i have is who will be the pakistan?
Ans: Poland.
Can it afford the cost?
The cost will be paid by the US.

don't forget then EU will suffer like India. EU who is used to having living the comfort life cant think of suffering. i don't understand how EU can be so stupid. why should EU suffer for the sake of US-Russia's need. when US did not like USSR missiles in Cuba how can EU expect Russia to allow US missiles next to it in Ukraine. why is world behaving so stupidly or are we over thinking.
lets assume a hypothetical scenario. Russia using N-Weapon on Ukraine. what will be the excuse by EU to neuk Russia? coz MAD doctrine is only for attack on NATO countries. lets say it sanctions like Venezuela. Russia runs US nuclear power plant coz it exports 20% of world uranium. what if it gets into China and N. Korea and start a bigger game ?

stupidity of bidden is pushing whole world to suffer.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 16 Oct 2022 11:30

The EU is not likely to use vs Russia if the things do come to such a pass in Ukraine. Macron has clarified this - French nukes are for france, not EU, and definitely not ukraine. There is no other nuclear power in the EU.

Maria · Post by **Maria** » 16 Oct 2022 17:10

Cain Marko wrote:The EU is not likely to use vs Russia if the things do come to such a pass in Ukraine. Macron has clarified this - French nukes are for france, not EU, and definitely not ukraine. There is no other nuclear power in the EU.

Oinglund?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 16 Oct 2022 17:28

^ not in EU. As such can be clubbed as 52 state of unkil.

Deans or others , any ground level updates on kherson ?

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 16 Oct 2022 18:39

gakakkad wrote:^ not in EU. As such can be clubbed as 52 state of unkil.

Deans or others , any ground level updates on kherson ?

From Russian channels - Day 1 of Ukraine's offensive failed.
Ukraine used light and highly mobile recon units to fix Russian positions and identify artillery. This time it apparently did not work.

Iranian drones destroyed a Ukr S-300 SAM battery (there's some video evidence of its destruction). Ukraine also does not have any significant air force left - the last aircraft destroyed was from its aerobatic team. Since there was no SAM's to deal with, Russian air force was active and hit a lot of Ukrainian armor. Russian artillery is mostly SP guns, so they move quickly and Ukr has not hit any.
It has been raining in the Kherson area, by today the ground will be too soft for heavy vehicles (a lot of vehicles got stuck yesterday).
The attack was in 2 places in the northern part of the Kherson front. Russians seem to have retained their positions.
General feeling in Russia, is the Ukraine will try again, either in the same place, or another part of the Kherson front.

No info from Ukrainian channels. If they had achieved something, they would have reported it.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 16 Oct 2022 19:03

There is a group of Russian and Belarus forces in Belarus, under a joint Russia-Belarus command. They are moving towards the Ukraine border, opp Chernigov city. Chernigov, was actually captured in Feb but abandoned, It is a Russian majority city and the gateway to Kiev.

There are 7000 Russian soldiers in the group and a larger no of Belarus forces. Russian armor and supporting elements have just arrived in Belarus and today Russian aircraft arrived (Belarus air force is now under Russian command). Fuel and ammo have been arriving for some time. Belarus TV showed clips of Russian Mig 31s flying over Minsk and (for days now) trains with armoured vehicles and supplies arriving in Belarus.

Today, Belarus claimed they have foiled terrorist attacks inside Belarus. Most likely those captured will say they were hired by Ukraine's SBU.
There was also a terror attack at a Russian training base, where 2 Islamists from Tadjikstan killed 11 Russian soldiers.

So it is quite possible, that once other Russian forces are in place, a new front will open up from Belarus. If Chernigov is taken, it is a secure logistics hub for an attack on Kiev. Ukraine will be forced to redeploy forces to defend Kiev. Ukraine loses a large city and it will help Russia seal its southern border will Ukraine.

Deans · Post by **Deans** » 16 Oct 2022 20:10

Some manpower numbers:

Russia has never had more than 100k men inside Ukraine (plus DPR/LPR militia and Wagner group).

The total combat formations of the Russia army total 300,000, of which 20,000 cannot be moved - they are in Syria, Armenia, Klainingrad, Tadjikstan & TransDniester. Of the remaining 280,000 about 200,000 have been rotated through Ukraine. These 200k comprise approx 100k inside Ukraine, casualties and units recovering from fighting.

There are now an additional 370,000 mobilised. There are 300,000 called up and 70,000 volunteers, with some military experience but not called up. Of the 300k intended to be mobilised 223k were officially called and reported to their units.
33,000 completed refresher training and are deployed, 16,000 are in combat units at the front. They will all arrive by Mid Nov, when the snow will start falling, ground will be suitable for heavy vehicles and forests will lose their cover.

By the middle of Nov, the Russian forces in Ukraine will more than double - and can double further with another round of mobilization.
Ukraine, on the other hand has almost completely mobilised. If Ukraine cannot recover territory now, they won't be able to do it in future.

Ukraine's military production is now 0. They are entirely dependent on NATO, which is also running out of resources (though in the longer term they will massively out-produce Russia).