Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Apr 2023 06:50

https://twitter.com/defencedecode/statu ... BFomuaYzwg —> L&T will soon start the integration of extended range anti-submarine rocket on a new launch platform.

https://twitter.com/defencedecode/statu ... BFomuaYzwg —> Extended range anti-submarine rocket.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 08 Apr 2023 07:06

Our close in the anti-missile gun system is quite an old Soviet period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-630. We make it here fully. Land-based anti-aircraft systems are now being procured and have programmable ammunition and other things. Maybe it is now time to improve it or look for different solutions for the navy.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 08 Apr 2023 07:13

https://twitter.com/reviewvayu/status/1 ... BFomuaYzwg —> Two images of the ER-ASR for you --- taken at Aero India 2021.

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 10 Apr 2023 11:20

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/rafindia_/status/16 ... BFomuaYzwg —> DRDO has successfully test fired the extended range version of anti-submarine rocket RBU-6000 from INS Chennai. Range has now increases to 9 km from the existing 5 Km. It's used to hunt enemy submarines hiding near by the ship.

This does not look like INS Chennai. Is it an IN vessel at all ?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Apr 2023 15:57

Kersi wrote:
Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/rafindia_/status/16 ... BFomuaYzwg —> DRDO has successfully test fired the extended range version of anti-submarine rocket RBU-6000 from INS Chennai. Range has now increases to 9 km from the existing 5 Km. It's used to hunt enemy submarines hiding near by the ship.
This does not look like INS Chennai. Is it an IN vessel at all ?

Representative photo of RBU-6000 on a ship.

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 10 Apr 2023 17:35

Rakesh wrote:
Kersi wrote: This does not look like INS Chennai. Is it an IN vessel at all ?
Representative photo of RBU-6000 on a ship.

BTW what is this ship ? Unable to identify it

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Apr 2023 17:51

Kersi wrote:BTW what is this ship ? Unable to identify it

The Kalmykia, the last Parchim Class corvette of the Russian Navy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_corvette_Kalmykia

Kersi · Post by **Kersi** » 12 Apr 2023 19:11

Rakesh wrote:
Kersi wrote:BTW what is this ship ? Unable to identify it
The Kalmykia, the last Parchim Class corvette of the Russian Navy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_corvette_Kalmykia

A rather unique design
Traditionally all Russian designs had a largish 76 mm / 100 mm even 57 mm guns up in front and the AK 630 type turrets in rear. This is just the other way around !!!

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 15 Apr 2023 14:38

Not all

Kirovs have main gun in the aft, Pr.1234 missile boat and Pr.1124 sub-chaser and 1135 frigate as well. On Pr. 1134/A/B and 1123 cruisers main guns were midship starboard and port.

MeshaVishwas · Post by **MeshaVishwas** » 18 Apr 2023 22:43

^^Great to see you post Saar!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Apr 2023 22:50

Here we go again! Deja Vu from the 90s!

https://twitter.com/VivekSi85847001/sta ... 91586?s=20 ---> MDL submarine build capacity to go idle, as there is no fresh order. Sixth P-75 submarine delivery to Navy this year. Invested 1,000 crores to make 11 submarines at same time, but no fresh orders. In past, we said govt to build 3 more submarines, but no decision yet. Build time can be reduced to 6 from 9 years = MDL CEO.

wig · Post by **wig** » 19 Apr 2023 15:37

https://theprint.in/defence/8-former-na ... e/1525711/

8 former Navy officers imprisoned by Qatar accused of spying on emirate’s super-secret submarine programme
excerpts

eight former Indian Navy personnel being tried in Qatar have been accused of spying on the oil-rich kingdom’s secretive programme to obtain Italian-made, high-tech submarines coated with metamaterials that make their detection by adversaries difficult, intelligence sources have told ThePrint.

the evidence has not been shared

We’ve tried hard to convince our counterparts in Doha that India and its nationals were not involved in hostile intelligence operations against the emirate,” an intelligence officer told ThePrint on condition of anonymity. “But the Qataris are insisting that intelligence on their submarine programme was passed on to Israel.”

The Qatar State Security, the state intelligence agency, claimed to have intercepted electronic communications establishing that the naval officers were spying on the submarine programme, the officer further said. The purported evidence, he added, has not been shared with India.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Apr 2023 16:23

We would need to kidnap some the Qataris rulers family to get these guys released the stupidly of these Qataris is beyond belief

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 19 Apr 2023 19:19

Aditya_V wrote:We would need to kidnap some the Qataris rulers family to get these guys released the stupidly of these Qataris is beyond belief

Hard to say if they acted stupidly until more information makes it into the public domain.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 19 Apr 2023 21:15

8 former Navy officers imprisoned by Qatar accused of spying on emirate’s super-secret submarine programme
https://theprint.in/defence/8-former-na ... e/1525711/
19 April 2023

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 20 Apr 2023 10:25

@RoyG ji, quatar and stupidity go hand in hand. If not al jazzers will mediate - enzyme.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Apr 2023 17:20

If any document exists for this video. I have not been able to find it.

But it's getting developed under make 2 catagory. With a range of 150 kms.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 21 Apr 2023 17:47

Rakesh wrote:8 former Navy officers imprisoned by Qatar accused of spying on emirate’s super-secret submarine programme
https://theprint.in/defence/8-former-na ... e/1525711/
19 April 2023

its not so secret http://www.hisutton.com/M23-Submarines-Italy-Qatar.html

The design is described as MIDGET AUTONOMUS SUBMARINE P / N M232017023. There may be a strong hint in this number, and also the company’s name: it may be 23 meters long. We can also infer that it was designed in 2017. It is known to have a 200 kw diesel engine, 70 kw electric motor and sonar.

M23 S.R.L. is based at a factory in Ciserano, Bergamo, Italy. This exact site was previously the location of GSE Trieste, a highly regarded Italian submarine builder. M23 is a recent spin-off of GSE and has been reported as having 22 employees. The new company is associated with Qatari entities.

The new submarine may be 23 meters long (75 ft). The maximum expected size, based on the dimensions of M23’s factory, is about 30 meters (98 ft).

Significantly it appears that these submarines will be armed with at least two torpedoes. Two bumps, one either side of the rounded nose, could not really be anything else.

The submarines are also likely to have a strong Special Forces capability. Between them is a door which may be for a large-diameter payload tube.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 22 Apr 2023 06:41

Vayutuvan wrote:@RoyG ji, quatar and stupidity go hand in hand. If not al jazzers will mediate - enzyme.

More time is needed...

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 24 Apr 2023 16:36

India Initiates Development Of Massive Armed XLUUV

India is studying the feasibility of developing one of the largest XLUUVs in the world.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... med-xluuv/

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 24 Apr 2023 16:51

Nice.

This is the tool that can safely operate in South China sea.

This is absolutely a step in the right direction.

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 24 Apr 2023 19:25

On the XLUUV

According to the document, the XLUUV may have a maximum ‘length with payload’ of up to 50 meters, width of up to 5 meters, height no more than 10 meters and gross weight without ballast under 300 tons.

Why height of 10m max?
Is it with the mindset of equipping VLS? or some other reason?

Also comparing the physical dimensions with Kilo class which is 67m long, ~7m beam and ~10m draft. Subtract living spaces (most other spaces will still be required for maintenance, repair, etc.) -- Q: will XLUUV bring more firepower than a Kilo class?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Apr 2023 09:20

Analysis of India's maritime doctrine:

https://calhoun.nps.edu/bitstream/handl ... sAllowed=y

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2023 03:07

Avid it's a drone while Kilo is a submarine.
Totally different class.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Apr 2023 03:10

Rakesh wrote:8 former Navy officers imprisoned by Qatar accused of spying on emirate’s super-secret submarine programme
https://theprint.in/defence/8-former-na ... e/1525711/
19 April 2023

I suspect there is more than what Qatar is letting out.
Israel wouldn't need to spy on a midget submarine project.
It could be really an AUWV with torpedoes.
That would bring new capability to Persian Gulf.

Italy is a pioneer of midget submarines since WWII.

wig · Post by **wig** » 26 Apr 2023 09:31

former Indian Navy men face death for spying in Qatar

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... tar-500888
excerpts

Sacked by their Qatari employers, eight veterans of the Indian Navy, kept in solitary confinement in Doha since August last year, face stringent charges, including the death penalty, at the next court hearing on May 3.

Charges have also been framed against two Qataris, including former Oman Air Force officer Khamis al-Ajmi, who is also the CEO of Dahra Global which had employed them for a super-secret project to build Italian technology-based midget submarines with stealth characteristics. Qatar’s Head of International Military Operations, Maj Gen Tariq Khalid Al Obaidly, is the other Qatari national to be charged.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 27 Apr 2023 06:17

wig wrote:former Indian Navy men face death for spying in Qatar

There should be (if not already) a system in which ex-armed forces/security personnel would first seek clearance to work outside India, and especially for a defense-related job. Clearance should be granted only in select cases which serve national interest in a tangible way.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 27 Apr 2023 08:33

Assuming these charges are true and that is a “BIG” IF, then these ex-Indian Navy personnel understood the risks of what could happen to them if they got caught.

They were not spying on the next-door-florist-who-came-up-with-a-hybrid-rose-variety, but “reportedly” spying on a foreign country’s naval program and supposedly handing it over to the arch enemy of the Islamic world - Israel. Capital punishment is the only acceptable justice to the Qatari authorities. That is how they see it.

And Qatar has got money, power and influence to see this through. Let’s hope wiser minds prevail and these ex-Indian Navy personnel can return home to their families and to India.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 27 Apr 2023 09:15

Qatar will execute them. Wise to wait instead of jumping to mistaken detainment conclusion.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Apr 2023 13:47

I think we have enough leverage to get them released, I think the Europeans want the whole contract for themselves, its just an excuse to through Indians out. Ultimately West will ensure Qatar gets a lemon.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Apr 2023 14:01

The Submarine is Italian Designed- i.e Nato Country, All Qatari Equipment in Armed forces is supplied and maintained by Nato, all Oilfield equipment is Qatar is run by Nato. No way that Israel needs "Indian" spies to know anything about those Submarines. This is more about Nato putting some indirect pressure on India but don't want to do it openly.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 27 Apr 2023 16:35

Aditya_V wrote:.. No way that Israel needs "Indian" spies to know anything about those Submarines..

Good point. It is also a possibility (remote though) that they set up our guys for the fall to protect their assets. It is a very dirty high stakes business.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 27 Apr 2023 17:31

KL Dubey wrote:
wig wrote:former Indian Navy men face death for spying in Qatar
There should be (if not already) a system in which ex-armed forces/security personnel would first seek clearance to work outside India, and especially for a defense-related job. Clearance should be granted only in select cases which serve national interest in a tangible way.

This episode has served as a stark warning to our service folk to be very careful where they take their post-service consultancy/advisor contracts.

Also as our homegrown equipment and tech exports increase, these sort of attacks will increase.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 27 Apr 2023 21:42

Aditya_V wrote: This is more about Nato putting some indirect pressure on India but don't want to do it openly.

What is NATO's reasoning for this?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Apr 2023 21:50

Put pressure on us to act against Russia

ernest · Post by **ernest** » 28 Apr 2023 06:10

If Qatar executed 9 US ex servicemen, Khan would have delivered them freedom and initiated operation Qatari Freedom in 2 months. India's response will show how far/close to superpower status we are.

If we continue to be hostage to Qatari shenanigans due to the large worker population (who are denied basic human rights), then just accept that we're not going to be a superpower in my life. 5tn GDP gaya tel lene

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 28 Apr 2023 16:51

ernest wrote:If Qatar executed 9 US ex servicemen, Khan would have delivered them freedom and initiated operation Qatari Freedom in 2 months. India's response will show how far/close to superpower status we are.

If we continue to be hostage to Qatari shenanigans due to the large worker population (who are denied basic human rights), then just accept that we're not going to be a superpower in my life. 5tn GDP gaya tel lene

Accusations of spying especially for enemy state carries harsh punishment. Whining doesn't help.

There are limits to what a country can do in situations like this. Remains to be seen if India can get them off.

When Saudis turned kashoggi into casserole US didn't do much.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 28 Apr 2023 19:29

ernest wrote:If Qatar executed 9 US ex servicemen, Khan would have delivered them freedom and initiated operation Qatari Freedom in 2 months. India's response will show how far/close to superpower status we are.

If we continue to be hostage to Qatari shenanigans due to the large worker population (who are denied basic human rights), then just accept that we're not going to be a superpower in my life. 5tn GDP gaya tel lene

Curtailing Al Jazeera 's reach in the subcontinent would be the first warning shot !.. . Qatar airlines flights be second , reducing LNG imports from qatar would be third

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 28 Apr 2023 19:32

RoyG wrote:
ernest wrote:If Qatar executed 9 US ex servicemen, Khan would have delivered them freedom and initiated operation Qatari Freedom in 2 months. India's response will show how far/close to superpower status we are.

If we continue to be hostage to Qatari shenanigans due to the large worker population (who are denied basic human rights), then just accept that we're not going to be a superpower in my life. 5tn GDP gaya tel lene
Accusations of spying especially for enemy state carries harsh punishment. Whining doesn't help.

There are limits to what a country can do in situations like this. Remains to be seen if India can get them off.

When Saudis turned kashoggi into casserole US didn't do much.

India is hardly an "enemy" state , rather one of its biggest trade partners
When did India execute a paki spy?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 28 Apr 2023 20:49

The US did not do much because the US leadership was useless for decades. Had they wanted to do something, almost nothing could have stopped. Rest is OT, so leaving it at that.

Even we can do something hard in such situations. But it is the question of leadership and capabilities.