Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

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Deans
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

IndraD wrote:
Deans wrote:There is no point recruiting more as there is not enough hardware to equip more motorized rifle battalions. The shortages are in artillery ammunition and barrels, air defense, electronic warfare, drones etc.
in which case NATO will out supply Ru sooner or later? :-?
I added a para to my last post, which answers your question. NATO will outproduce Russia by the end of this year. Russia can get to an advantageous position in a negotiated peace if:
- Ukraine can no longer sustain manpower losses &
- Russia takes the territory it needs and goes on the defensive (with a reduced consumption of hardware).
- Europe can no longer bear the economic cost (which can happen only if for e.g. Russia blows up undersea gas pipelines). a 1% Drop in EUs GDP
is $140 billion. Add another $60 billion to subsidize the Ukraine war. That would mean a near 0, or negative GDP for EU.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Thanks Deans sir!
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by sanman »

Masterstroke, Vishwaguru Putin

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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by BajKhedawal »

Dilbu wrote:Prigozhin will go into exile in Belarus as per the deal.
Ammo shortage redux.

Could be a staged operation to position "mutineers" in Belarus, isn't this where Shri Putin recently put his nukes aimed at naughty nato!
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Russia is making the US pay for both sides in this war. But who gives a flying duck, the printing press is churning, the merry go round is turning...
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Tanaji »

If Russia digs in without offensive action the rate of production it has should be sufficient. The key will be on how it manages its anti air assets: and future offensive from UKR will try to wrest air superiority from Russia and this is where the ability to field S300 , the Tors and older SAM systems will be significant.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

Tanaji wrote:If Russia digs in without offensive action the rate of production it has should be sufficient. The key will be on how it manages its anti air assets: and future offensive from UKR will try to wrest air superiority from Russia and this is where the ability to field S300 , the Tors and older SAM systems will be significant.
If Russia occupies the areas it wants to and digs in, the question the Ukrainian army will ask is if they want to die in large numbers to liberate a
ethnically Russian area, where they are unwelcome and where Russia will be far more motivated to defend.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

A point about Progozhin:
He isn't the founder of Wagner, nor does he run it operationally.
Wagner was set up by Russian military intelligence (GRU). They wanted Russia to be disassociated from some of its operations and chose Prigozhin to be the front (though Progizhin has probably expanded its operations significantly). Progozhin was popular in Russia, after the battle of Bakhmut, but has no military experience, let alone command experience and did a long spell in jail, before becoming a businessman and landing a lot of army contracts - catering, construction, security.

The senior leadership of Wagner are all former or serving Russian army officers. (like ISI - Taliban).
Prigo is like the Chairman of a corporation.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by williams »

Deans wrote:A point about Progozhin:
He isn't the founder of Wagner, nor does he run it operationally.
Wagner was set up by Russian military intelligence (GRU). They wanted Russia to be disassociated from some of its operations and chose Prigozhin to be the front (though Progizhin has probably expanded its operations significantly). Progozhin was popular in Russia, after the battle of Bakhmut, but has no military experience, let alone command experience and did a long spell in jail, before becoming a businessman and landing a lot of army contracts - catering, construction, security.

The senior leadership of Wagner are all former or serving Russian army officers. (like ISI - Taliban).
Prigo is like the Chairman of a corporation.
So who do you think is behind sending 170 vehicle convoy to Moskow? If Progozhin is not the operational commander, former Russian Army officers are running the show? If GRU created this setup, Putin should have ears inside, yet he acted only after things went really south. Something very fishy is going on. Putin probably has enemies in his inner circle that he probably knows but did not act on it for some reason.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Dilbu »

^^
Or this was a dog and pony show for the West to consume. May be Wagner will now attack Kyiev from Belarus axis.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by sanman »

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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by YashG »

Deans wrote:
IndraD wrote:
in which case NATO will out supply Ru sooner or later? :-?
I added a para to my last post, which answers your question. NATO will outproduce Russia by the end of this year. Russia can get to an advantageous position in a negotiated peace if:
- Ukraine can no longer sustain manpower losses &
- Russia takes the territory it needs and goes on the defensive (with a reduced consumption of hardware).
- Europe can no longer bear the economic cost (which can happen only if for e.g. Russia blows up undersea gas pipelines). a 1% Drop in EUs GDP
is $140 billion. Add another $60 billion to subsidize the Ukraine war. That would mean a near 0, or negative GDP for EU.
This assumes that outfitting Ukraine is only a function of NATO production. It is also a function of NATO funding. Closer to election year in US/ Recessionary pressures in EU - even if NATO outproduces Russia, it may not outspend Russia on Ukraine. Ofcourse West is not use to accept defeats; That is why it is not able to accept the Ukraine outcome. Some think tanks believe that if they lose in Ukraine they will lose in Taiwan also. But its a self fulfilling prophecy - the more they try not to lose in Ukraine, the more they will not be able to contest China on Taiwan.

Weak economies need china (ask germany), even biden is trying to get on good terms with china. Ukraine fiasco will make west weak enough to not contest Taiwan. They just dont accept it. Yet.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Avid »

Deans wrote:A point about Progozhin:
He isn't the founder of Wagner, nor does he run it operationally.
Wagner was set up by Russian military intelligence (GRU). They wanted Russia to be disassociated from some of its operations and chose Prigozhin to be the front (though Progizhin has probably expanded its operations significantly). Progozhin was popular in Russia, after the battle of Bakhmut, but has no military experience, let alone command experience and did a long spell in jail, before becoming a businessman and landing a lot of army contracts - catering, construction, security.

The senior leadership of Wagner are all former or serving Russian army officers. (like ISI - Taliban).
Prigo is like the Chairman of a corporation.
This puts my thoughts on a more devious path. So here is what I am curious about.

Russia first moved tactical nukes into Belarus.

Then it struck a deal by which Wagner is also in Belarus.

Belarus borders: Poland and Lithuania. (both of which border Russia in Kaliningrad otherwise but not mainland Russia). It extends the border with Ukraine. With an official break from Wagner -- does it create plausible deniability on Wagner's actions in future?

You do not move a "rebel" force, to a location where you recently moved tactical nukes. That simply does not make sense to me.

And with the official break, the "re-settlement" of these into Belarus makes even less sense.

The positive it does do is ... plausible deniability (similar to NATO) ... if these forces, based in Belarus, create trouble in Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine. So, your ISI-Taliban type nexus creates more of an explanation; and the show in the Western media makes it even harder to blame Wagner's future actions on Russia.

Or may be I am being too conspiracy minded, things are not as devious and what is happening as being reported is exactly what it is.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

williams wrote: So who do you think is behind sending 170 vehicle convoy to Moskow? If Progozhin is not the operational commander, former Russian Army officers are running the show? If GRU created this setup, Putin should have ears inside, yet he acted only after things went really south. Something very fishy is going on. Putin probably has enemies in his inner circle that he probably knows but did not act on it for some reason.
Lot of theories, I don't think anyone knows for sure. What is probably true is:
- Out of approx. 25,000 Wagner men, the mutiny was about 1500-200 men. Half stayed in Rostov - Southern Army HQ functioned normally while
they were occupying it. The other half were in the 170 vehicles. The rest of Wagner probably did not want to join.
- There are Russian Army officers and unofficial `spies' in Wagner units, but probably not in all units. Keep in mind the very high loss rate among
Wagner units in the battle for Bakhmut, or maybe the Russian informants in these units were turned.
- All Wagner fuel, ammo and medical care comes from the Russian army.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

Avid wrote: This puts my thoughts on a more devious path. So here is what I am curious about.

Russia first moved tactical nukes into Belarus.

Then it struck a deal by which Wagner is also in Belarus.

Belarus borders: Poland and Lithuania. (both of which border Russia in Kaliningrad otherwise but not mainland Russia). It extends the border with Ukraine. With an official break from Wagner -- does it create plausible deniability on Wagner's actions in future?

You do not move a "rebel" force, to a location where you recently moved tactical nukes. That simply does not make sense to me.

And with the official break, the "re-settlement" of these into Belarus makes even less sense.

The positive it does do is ... plausible deniability (similar to NATO) ... if these forces, based in Belarus, create trouble in Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine. So, your ISI-Taliban type nexus creates more of an explanation; and the show in the Western media makes it even harder to blame Wagner's future actions on Russia.

Or may be I am being too conspiracy minded, things are not as devious and what is happening as being reported is exactly what it is.
I think its a credible theory. Sounds better than my idea (if I was Putin) of offering to help Iran's nuclear program.
West cannot rule out the combination of - Prigo is a nutcase. Belarus nuke security is loose. Prigo has been put in charge of strengthening Belarus
nuke security.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

The Chechen leader Ramzan Kadirov is positioning himself as the next Prigozhin.
Chechen units have fought as well as Wagner, without cribbing about ammo shortages, or blaming the Russian MOD. He's become a Col Gen
in the Russian army as a result. He's also been a soldier since the days of the 1st Chechen war. He's sent his 3 sons to the front as soldiers - the
youngest is 16.

Kadirov has taken a harder stance against the west, than Putin. He will probably be more amenable to using tactical nukes.
He sends a signal to the Muslim world that he has no problem with Orthodox Christianity (despite the Chechen wars), his war is against the West,
which is against Islam.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1 ... 77889?s=20 ---> A still from a newly uploaded Russian MoD video showing a VKS Su-35S. It is seen armed with two R-73/74M short-range AAMs, two R-77-1 medium-range AAMs, two R-37M long-range AAMs, and one Kh-31PM ARM - a common weapons loadout for counterair patrols (combined CAP/SEAD missions).

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 28672?s=20 ---> The Russian Su35 and R37/R77-1 AAM combo may just emerge as the top kill scoring platform of the war, with most UkrAF pilots ducking low to avoid this threat. It would be interesting to see how the Russians will adapt to the AMRAAM equipped F-16s/Gripens in the months ahead…

Image
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

Hmmm.

1) Ukrainian airforce has been complaining about the Mig31 and R 37 combination for a long time.

Now they will be complaining about the Su 35 and R 37 combination.

2) Why have the Russians not added a R77 seeker to a ramjet engine.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by chetak »

Image
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

https://twitter.com/narrative_hole/stat ... 92674?s=20

brutal war! Exercise caution & faint heart stay away minefield explosion
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Putin has apparently dissolved Wagner
Putin: "The enemies of Russia wanted the country to drown in bloody civil strife, they miscalculated. From the very beginning, I took steps to avoid bloodshed. The decisive role in stopping the rebellion was played by the patriotic mood of the Russians, the consolidation of the entire society of the Russian Federation. The organizers of the rebellion, having betrayed the country, betrayed and those who were with them. A firm position in support of the constitutional order was taken by the public, parties, religious organizations, the whole society. The courage of the fallen heroes-pilots saved Russia. Wagner fighters can sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense, leave for Belarus or return home. I am grateful to Lukashenka for his efforts. I thank those Wagner soldiers who stopped at the last line and did not go to bloodshed. They tried to use the Wagner PMC fighters in the dark." Putin assured that his promise to the Wagnerites would be fulfilled.
https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/16 ... 50881?s=20
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Jay »

IndraD wrote:Putin has apparently dissolved Wagner
Putin: "The enemies of Russia wanted the country to drown in bloody civil strife, they miscalculated. From the very beginning, I took steps to avoid bloodshed. The decisive role in stopping the rebellion was played by the patriotic mood of the Russians, the consolidation of the entire society of the Russian Federation. The organizers of the rebellion, having betrayed the country, betrayed and those who were with them. A firm position in support of the constitutional order was taken by the public, parties, religious organizations, the whole society. The courage of the fallen heroes-pilots saved Russia. Wagner fighters can sign a contract with the Ministry of Defense, leave for Belarus or return home. I am grateful to Lukashenka for his efforts. I thank those Wagner soldiers who stopped at the last line and did not go to bloodshed. They tried to use the Wagner PMC fighters in the dark." Putin assured that his promise to the Wagnerites would be fulfilled.
https://twitter.com/vicktop55/status/16 ... 50881?s=20
This thing is getting bizzare by the second. Truly, 'game of thrones' levels of drama, deception, and obfuscation.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by rajkumar »

Wagner soldiers shoot down Russian plane during attempted coup...

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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Deans »

This is one of the best writeups I've seen on the Wagner uprising. Serge is Russian and a military historian.
All of Big Serge's blogs on the war have so far been spot on and are a good read.

https://bigserge.substack.com/p/russo-u ... r-uprising

Another Russian analyst with a different point of view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rpi3ibN0o4&t=353s

Andrei Martyanov is a former Soviet/Russian Naval officer. His books on warfare get into mathematical models and are difficult to follow, as is his
accent (sounds like a sarcastic uncle sometimes) but he makes some good points in his several videos.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

Thanks Dean's,
BigSerge detailed this episode well, matches very closely with my reading of the events.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Cyrano wrote:Thanks Dean's,
BigSerge detailed this episode well, matches very closely with my reading of the events.
+11
thanks for all the information & resources Deans sir!

as we speak wagner is getting dissolved bit by bit. It won't exist. And looks like Pirozin is being banished forever into Africa.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Cyrano »

In his next avatar Prigorjin will be the double agent triple crossing ultimately controlled by RAW :twisted: :rotfl:
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Russian agents’ threat to family made Prigozhin call off Moscow advance: 'UK Sources'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... er-family/
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by sanman »

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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by ramana »

On 203mm guns by Ukraine. Nice histiry.of the gun.

https://mil.in.ua/en/articles/role-of-2 ... r-ukraine/
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Yagnasri »

IndraD wrote:Russian agents’ threat to family made Prigozhin call off Moscow advance: 'UK Sources'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... er-family/
As per one rumour UK was/is far more deeply involved in Russia now than the US. The SF of UK role in blowing up the Pipeline was discussed earlier.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by Pratyush »

IndraD wrote:Russian agents’ threat to family made Prigozhin call off Moscow advance: 'UK Sources'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... er-family/
UK media these days is little more than fantasy.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

if Apun ko sab pata hai had a fac!!

UK boasting it knew of wagner mutiny in advance, they got the intel from US. US got it from sources.
It was kept top secret so much that no one in US was told about it. However Uk was told. Uk too kept it top secret.
Ukraine was kept in dark but Kiev was told (if you think all this is made up pls read the farticle)


British spies had ‘extremely detailed picture’ of Wagner’s mutiny plans
US shared intelligence about where and how the mercenaries planned to move

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... iny-plans/

https://archive.ph/4UHmf#selection-2839.4-2843.78
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66031342 hahakaar in UK after deadly Russian missile strike in Kramatorsk.
Several videos on SM show US & british mercenaries evaporated (US 3rd airborne Ranger Battalion)

https://twitter.com/squatsons/status/16 ... 57025?s=20
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1 ... 82465?s=20
Last edited by IndraD on 29 Jun 2023 02:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

The Poles are rapidly building up a full-fledged shock tank fist in the Belarusian / Kaliningrad direction.
The first echelon today consists of 366 American Abrams tanks, 230 Leopards and up to 180 Korean K2GF tanks. In total, Poland contracted 1,000 Korean tanks. As a result, Poland officially announced the creation of the strongest land army in Europe.

https://t.me/vicktop55/15826
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Rumours of a massive ukr putsch on soledar and bakhmut being imminent using large nos of foreign volunteers, paid mercs and nato wink wink types who rebadged themselves
US UK vision is probably a nato 2.0 out of this troika - those willing to go all in whatever be the risk or cost - 3 baltic tigers + another 3 in polish led confederacy. This will be the shield and western wall to block russia. Will be fed heavy on arms and given any asks
These plans make it almost impossible for R to consider peace talks because tomorrow when US nuclear weapons are housed in ukr or ukr manages to create some of its own, will be in kharkov and nikolayev and complicate things badly

https://twitter.com/daeroplate_v2/statu ... 84128?s=20
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Post by Yagnasri »

No matter what is the result of the present war, ukn is destroyed. It will take decades to bring it into a reasonable condition, and most of that country will be owned by the West, and their moneybags and people will be servants of the West forever.

People of the ukn voted for peace and elected the present Joker so they could be excused. But the Polish people seem hell-bent on entering an unwinnable war with no problem fighting it till the last Polish person on behalf of the West. God only knows what they want to gain from that.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

Where is the Ukrainian army’s 117th Mechanized Brigade?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... in-action/
The answer to that question has implications for Ukraine’s 18-day-old southern counteroffensive, which has been making slow progress along several axes in Zaporizhzhia and Donetsk Oblasts.

Kyiv and its foreign allies spent months standing up, training and equipping nine new brigades specifically for the counteroffensive, plus additional brigades that would function as a reserve.

But so far we’ve seen just three, maybe four, of the brigades in action alongside older Ukrainian formations. The 117th Mechanized Brigade is one of the missing brigades. Where the brigade is, and what it’s waiting for, could speak volumes about Kyiv’s strategy as the counteroffensive grinds into its third week.

When the Ukrainians attacked starting the night of June 4, they did so in battalion-size formations along three or four main sectors. These attacks, while ultimately successful, were costly.

Elements of the new 37th Marine Brigade outran its artillery support near Velyka Novosilka and lost several AMX-10RC reconnaissance vehicles. A battlegroup from a pair of new brigades—the 33rd Mechanized and 47th Assault Brigades—got mired in a minefield south of Mala Tomachka and abandoned a couple dozen of its best tanks, fighting vehicles and breaching vehicles.

But where is that combat power? Have the Ukrainians staged all nine of their new brigades in the south? How close are they to the front line? How fast could they roll into action?

If we could determine where the 117th Mechanized Brigade was, we might be able to guess at these questions. But despite having at least one social media account, the brigade has maintained fairly strict secrecy.

We know the 117th Brigade exists because it’s on the list of newly-formed Ukrainian units that a U.S. Air National Guard airman leaked online this spring.

Mikhail Sergeevich Zvinchuk, a former Kremlin official and popular Telegram-user, back in January claimed the 117th was forming around Matkiivka near Zaporizhzhia city. A video the 117th posted on June 3 purports to depict some of the brigade’s trucks in Nikopol district, west of Zaporizhzhia. It’s hard to verify either claim.

The documents the airman leaked specify the 2,000-person brigade’s table of equipment: 28 Viking all-terrain vehicles, 10 XA-185 wheeled personnel carriers, 20 M-113 tracked personnel carriers, 31 PT-91 tanks, 12 D-30 towed howitzers and eight AS-90 tracked howitzers.

It’s an odd mix of ex-Dutch, ex-British and ex-Polish weapons, but a potentially powerful one. The AS-90s are fairly modern howitzers. The PT-91s are highly-upgraded T-72s that should outclass most Russian tank types.

Those howitzers and tanks could make a big difference in southern Ukraine, once Kyiv decides finally to deploy the brigade.

If the Ukrainians’ plan is to mass most or all of their uncommitted combat power for a single major armored thrust somewhere in the south, expect the 117th to roll into combat alongside several other new brigades that we know exist, but which haven’t yet appeared on the front line: the 21st, 32nd and 118th Mechanized and—especially—the super-powerful 82nd Air Assault.
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

U.S. Considers ATACMS Long-Range Missiles to Bolster Ukraine’s Fight

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-close- ... t-cc4e389c
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Re: Russian-Ukrainian War: Combat Tactics & Strategy

Post by IndraD »

jump 20 UAV aleady in skies of Ukraine
https://sundries.com.ua/en/ukrainian-ar ... itchblade/
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