Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
hgupta
BRFite
Posts: 555
Joined: 20 Oct 2018 14:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by hgupta »

Pratyush wrote: 19 Jul 2023 22:04
Rakesh wrote: 19 Jul 2023 17:53 After 2 Aborts, Here’s How Airbus Feels About India’s Tanker Needs
https://www.livefistdefence.com/after-2 ... ker-needs/
19 July 2023
Why must the contract be for new build machines?

Pick up used civil airframe and convert those to tankers. In second hand military role, the use will not be so severe as civil operators.

Such air frames can be had at a fraction of the cost of a new build aircraft. Let the OEM do the conversion to military and provide PBL. They will be happy to provide services to IAF. The IAF can procure many more air frames this way, then they will be able to when buying new build aircraft.
You can do that but you will need the OEM company to provide you the technical specs and blueprints to do the conversion. May be more expensive to do that route when it is faster and cheaper to get one that is already made to be a tanker.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

The airliner to freighter conversion is done by third parties.

That involves cutting a whole section in the passenger deck and installation of a side opening freight door.

The multi role tanker conversion will be an evolutionary development of that process.

This is an option that the Israelis have presented in conjunction with the HAL.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 296877.ece

April 06, 2022 09:03 pm

OEM support is not mandatory.
hgupta
BRFite
Posts: 555
Joined: 20 Oct 2018 14:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by hgupta »

Then it would be hard to get support from OEM to keep servicing the plane. They will not accept any kind of liability.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

Thousands of civillian freighters are ex civillian airframes. They are being supported somehow.

But IAF will not be supported, if follows the same route.

Why?
hgupta
BRFite
Posts: 555
Joined: 20 Oct 2018 14:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by hgupta »

Pratyush wrote: 20 Jul 2023 12:23 Thousands of civillian freighters are ex civillian airframes. They are being supported somehow.

But IAF will not be supported, if follows the same route.

Why?
You are changing the structure of the airframe to do refueling. Unless the OEM do it themselve, they will not work on such modified airframe because they do not want any kind of liability for a compromised airframe that was altered without their input.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

https://www.iai.co.il/p/multi-mission-t ... sport-mmtt

Please refer to the link provided above.

Please try understand what is being suggested.

This process is cheaper than a brand new aircraft.

Currently it's only 767. But no reason why the same approach can't be executed for the A300 or 330 as well.
hgupta
BRFite
Posts: 555
Joined: 20 Oct 2018 14:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by hgupta »

Pratyush wrote: 21 Jul 2023 14:48 https://www.iai.co.il/p/multi-mission-t ... sport-mmtt

Please refer to the link provided above.

Please try understand what is being suggested.

This process is cheaper than a brand new aircraft.

Currently it's only 767. But no reason why the same approach can't be executed for the A300 or 330 as well.

Yes and they or rather the US paid to the OEM for architectural drawings & specs and consulting to convert the airframes into tankers.

Boeing would demand their royalty fees or something to that effect if you were to convert any more B767 into tankers.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

That royalty was between half a million to a million dollars in 2016-17.

A used civilian aircraft with a 12 to 15 years of service. Can be had for 30 to 45 million USD. Another 20 million for conversion and military specific coms. Plus a million USD for royalty.

The final product costs between 60 to 75 million USD.

A civillian to military aircraft is not going to have the same duty cycle as a civilian aircraft. Ie 300 plus flight of 12 to 16 hours each year for 30 years. The wear and tear is going to low. Assuring a 30 to 40 year service life.

That is still cheaper than 250 to 300 millions for a brand new aircraft plus whatever conversion fee OEM will charge.
Cybaru
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3005
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Cybaru »

Pratyush wrote: 24 Jul 2023 07:53 That royalty was between half a million to a million dollars in 2016-17.

A used civilian aircraft with a 12 to 15 years of service. Can be had for 30 to 45 million USD. Another 20 million for conversion and military specific coms. Plus a million USD for royalty.

The final product costs between 60 to 75 million USD.

A civillian to military aircraft is not going to have the same duty cycle as a civilian aircraft. Ie 300 plus flight of 12 to 16 hours each year for 30 years. The wear and tear is going to low. Assuring a 30 to 40 year service life.

That is still cheaper than 250 to 300 millions for a brand new aircraft plus whatever conversion fee OEM will charge.
Agreed!

The total bill of 500 million vs 1.8 billion for a fleet of 6-7
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19648
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Rakesh »

IAF Tezpur Base Centre Of Chain To Foil Any Chinese Intrusion In The East

prashantsharma
BRFite
Posts: 109
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 23:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by prashantsharma »

Tezpur in particular and EAC in general are a joke. The sqns and bases there will cease to exist as viable fighting units on day 1 of a sneaky Chinese attack.
Tezpur -2 HAS for 2 sukhoi sqns plus a few tin sheds
Guwahati - ww2 Era open top blast pens covered with some flimsy metal sheets like a roadside dhaba
Chabua -- 2 HAS for 1-2 sqns of sukhois plus 4-5 tins sheds. Keep seeing tenders for 4 more HAS but MES tendering is slower than a snail, the Chinese threat be damned.
Mohanbari - 0 HAS and been trying to lengthen the rwy for abt 5 yrs but looks like they can't handle a pidddly storm drain.
Jorhat - 4 HAS almost completed and some tin sheds.
Bagdogra - 6 HAS and some metal sheet covered ww2 era open top blast pens
Hashimara - thankfully 15 HAS. Incredibly 4 different designs have been tried out. Can you imagine the quadrupling of design, estimates, tendering and all that - a full on MES fk fest.
Silchar - 0 HAS
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 60019
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by ramana »

That's pretty bad.

Hashimara is better due to Rafales.
niran
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5538
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 16:01

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by niran »

prashantsharma wrote: 25 Jul 2023 08:49 Tezpur in particular and EAC in general are a joke. The sqns and bases there will cease to exist as viable fighting units on day 1 of a sneaky Chinese attack.
Tezpur -2 HAS for 2 sukhoi sqns plus a few tin sheds
Guwahati - ww2 Era open top blast pens covered with some flimsy metal sheets like a roadside dhaba
Chabua -- 2 HAS for 1-2 sqns of sukhois plus 4-5 tins sheds. Keep seeing tenders for 4 more HAS but MES tendering is slower than a snail, the Chinese threat be damned.
Mohanbari - 0 HAS and been trying to lengthen the rwy for abt 5 yrs but looks like they can't handle a pidddly storm drain.
Jorhat - 4 HAS almost completed and some tin sheds.
Bagdogra - 6 HAS and some metal sheet covered ww2 era open top blast pens
Hashimara - thankfully 15 HAS. Incredibly 4 different designs have been tried out. Can you imagine the quadrupling of design, estimates, tendering and all that - a full on MES fk fest.
Silchar - 0 HAS
woah! data you post is 6 years old that is more than half a decade old data. i will not go into details in an open forum Eastern Command present capabilities (as of last Sunday) includes abilities to measure amount, detect color temperature of one Prashant Sharma excreta even if discharged under thickest bush. joint the dots for yourself. no Cheena planes missiles drones men or material can cross over into Bhartiya space all will be dispatched to dark Erabus 180 km from border
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

prashantsharma wrote: 25 Jul 2023 08:49 Tezpur in particular and EAC in general are a joke. The sqns and bases there will cease to exist as viable fighting units on day 1 of a sneaky Chinese attack.
Tezpur -2 HAS for 2 sukhoi sqns plus a few tin sheds
Guwahati - ww2 Era open top blast pens covered with some flimsy metal sheets like a roadside dhaba
Chabua -- 2 HAS for 1-2 sqns of sukhois plus 4-5 tins sheds. Keep seeing tenders for 4 more HAS but MES tendering is slower than a snail, the Chinese threat be damned.
Mohanbari - 0 HAS and been trying to lengthen the rwy for abt 5 yrs but looks like they can't handle a pidddly storm drain.
Jorhat - 4 HAS almost completed and some tin sheds.
Bagdogra - 6 HAS and some metal sheet covered ww2 era open top blast pens
Hashimara - thankfully 15 HAS. Incredibly 4 different designs have been tried out. Can you imagine the quadrupling of design, estimates, tendering and all that - a full on MES fk fest.
Silchar - 0 HAS
There are no / very few HAS at Barielly and Gwalior air bases. Barielly has SU 30MKIs and Gwalior hosts Mirage 2000s
prashantsharma
BRFite
Posts: 109
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 23:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by prashantsharma »

niran wrote: 25 Jul 2023 10:10woah! data you post is 6 years old that is more than half a decade old data. i will not go into details in an open forum Eastern Command present capabilities (as of last Sunday) includes abilities to measure amount, detect color temperature of one Prashant Sharma excreta even if discharged under thickest bush. joint the dots for yourself. no Cheena planes missiles drones men or material can cross over into Bhartiya space all will be dispatched to dark Erabus 180 km from border.
Go check satellite imagery after sniffing some of your own.
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

prashantsharma wrote: 25 Jul 2023 08:49 Tezpur in particular and EAC in general are a joke. The sqns and bases there will cease to exist as viable fighting units on day 1 of a sneaky Chinese attack.
Tezpur -2 HAS for 2 sukhoi sqns plus a few tin sheds
The 2 HAS at the nothern end of runway are probably ORP not the usual HAS.

There appears to be 5-6 HAS
Last edited by Kersi on 25 Jul 2023 14:02, edited 1 time in total.
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

prashantsharma wrote: 25 Jul 2023 08:49 T
Guwahati - ww2 Era open top blast pens covered with some flimsy metal sheets like a roadside dhaba

Mohanbari - 0 HAS and been trying to lengthen the rwy for abt 5 yrs but looks like they can't handle a pidddly storm drain.
Guwahati and Mohanbari are not air forces bases per se, you can regularly see IAF AN 32s
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

prashantsharma wrote: 25 Jul 2023 08:49 Chabua -- 2 HAS for 1-2 sqns of sukhois plus 4-5 tins sheds. Keep seeing tenders for 4 more HAS but MES tendering is slower than a snail, the Chinese threat be damned.
The 2 HAS at the southern end of runway are probably ORP not the usual HAS.
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

prashantsharma wrote: 25 Jul 2023 08:49 Tezpur in particular and EAC in general are a joke. The sqns and bases there will cease to exist as viable fighting units on day 1 of a sneaky Chinese attack.
Tezpur -2 HAS for 2 sukhoi sqns plus a few tin sheds
Guwahati - ww2 Era open top blast pens covered with some flimsy metal sheets like a roadside dhaba
Chabua -- 2 HAS for 1-2 sqns of sukhois plus 4-5 tins sheds. Keep seeing tenders for 4 more HAS but MES tendering is slower than a snail, the Chinese threat be damned.
Mohanbari - 0 HAS and been trying to lengthen the rwy for abt 5 yrs but looks like they can't handle a pidddly storm drain.
Jorhat - 4 HAS almost completed and some tin sheds.
Bagdogra - 6 HAS and some metal sheet covered ww2 era open top blast pens
Hashimara - thankfully 15 HAS. Incredibly 4 different designs have been tried out. Can you imagine the quadrupling of design, estimates, tendering and all that - a full on MES fk fest.
Silchar - 0 HAS
The "sheet metal tin sheds" mentioned repeatedly are for protection against weather only. Thye are also seen at some bases on western side
prashantsharma
BRFite
Posts: 109
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 23:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by prashantsharma »

Yes Tezpur has some 4-5 legacy blast pens, but again with metal top covering and too small to house a sukhoi.

By Sheet metal / tin roof I am referring to only the blast pens, they have raised walls / berms to protect against blast and are dispersed. I am not referring to the environmental shelters which also have metal roofs, but no side walls, have zero blast protection and are lined by neatly In a straight line on the flightline. Almost all fighter bases on east n west front started getting these environment shelters in the 2000s/2010s.

What you are referring to as ORP not regular HAS, are a new generation of large sized HAS which can house a sukhoi. These came up in pairs over past 5-8 years at about 15-20 airbases including in South, sulur and thanjavur. Their location in some places like Tezpur and chabua make them suitable to house the ORP aircraft. In most bases these new gen HAS are located far from the rnwy in the loop dispersal.

Guwahati and Mohanbari in peace time are transport /chopper bases. But lack of proper HAS for fighters will limit IAF dispersal options in wartime. In 1971, the then top end mig21s used Guwahati as their forward location.
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

prashantsharma wrote: 25 Jul 2023 16:22 Yes Tezpur has some 4-5 legacy blast pens, but again with metal top covering and too small to house a sukhoi.

By Sheet metal / tin roof I am referring to only the blast pens, they have raised walls / berms to protect against blast and are dispersed. I am not referring to the environmental shelters which also have metal roofs, but no side walls, have zero blast protection and are lined by neatly In a straight line on the flightline. Almost all fighter bases on east n west front started getting these environment shelters in the 2000s/2010s.

What you are referring to as ORP not regular HAS, are a new generation of large sized HAS which can house a sukhoi. These came up in pairs over past 5-8 years at about 15-20 airbases including in South, sulur and thanjavur. Their location in some places like Tezpur and chabua make them suitable to house the ORP aircraft. In most bases these new gen HAS are located far from the rnwy in the loop dispersal.

Guwahati and Mohanbari in peace time are transport /chopper bases. But lack of proper HAS for fighters will limit IAF dispersal options in wartime. In 1971, the then top end mig21s used Guwahati as their forward location.
I don't know what you mean by legacy blast pens

Most of the air bases in west n north have a number of HAS (and ORP), albeit older design. In all possibilities SU 30 may not fit in fully.

The new HAS are few and far but being built at a number of AFBs. I think these can fully accommodate a SU 30.
prashantsharma
BRFite
Posts: 109
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 23:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by prashantsharma »

By legacy blast pen i mean ancient design, brick retaining walls, earth embankment, no protective doors, open top or sheet metal top
These were adequate till the early 90s when attacking an airbase meant u had to overfly it, then do a low level run or a dive bomb attack, accuracy was in the 10s of metres, so you didnt have to worry about building a blast pen / HAS to survive a direct hit or near miss. It was even deemed unnecessary to have protective doors on the HAS. With PGMs, all this changes
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

prashantsharma wrote: 26 Jul 2023 13:38 By legacy blast pen i mean ancient design, brick retaining walls, earth embankment, no protective doors, open top or sheet metal top
These were adequate till the early 90s when attacking an airbase meant u had to overfly it, then do a low level run or a dive bomb attack, accuracy was in the 10s of metres, so you didn't have to worry about building a blast pen / HAS to survive a direct hit or near miss. It was even deemed unnecessary to have protective doors on the HAS. With PGMs, all this changes
OK
As far as i know we have been having HAS since xx years. I have seen them at Chandigarh and Amritsar in late 1990s.
As such I don't thing we have HAS with doors. Generally they have a sort of retaining wall a few meters away.

Previously we could see a number of aircraft open on the tarmac. This is being replaced by a large sort of 'mandap' with top canopy but open on all sides. This was in a couple of AFBs in western region but now being built at many AFBs. This, i suppose, is only for protection against adverse conditions

A few of AFBs also have underground hangars obviously we cannot see them !!!
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4434
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Prem Kumar »

That seems pretty damning!

There has been a significant investment and tom-tomming of the MAFI project - improvement of air-field infrastructure, night landing etc. Which is all welcome, but it beats me how the IAF can be blind to such a critical project like HAS, knowing that a 1st strike missile barrage is very likely (& wargamed by IAF ad-nauseum)?

Under Modi sarkar, there is no shortage of funds for these projects - in fact, it could have very well been rolled up under MAFI itself. Unlike weapons purchases, there is no exhaustive vendor down-select, import lobby etc

I mean, how callous are these guys? Are they still living in the past wars where they expect to shoot down bombers from China that will make a low-pass to drop ordnance?
prashantsharma
BRFite
Posts: 109
Joined: 14 Dec 2010 23:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by prashantsharma »

Yes, IAF has had HAS in fairly sufficient numbers, but almost exclusively in west and north with an eye mostly on Pak (the ones in north obviously are of use against china). The bulk of construction was between 65 and 71 wars. This is mentioned in various histories of the 71 war. Also design catered upto to mig29/M2K/Jag dimensions and had no blast protection doors (only angled berm walls outside the HAS). Last two points became a big problem starting from 2000s when su30 induction by us and pgm induction by enemies started in large nos.

CAG has a whole chapter on lack of HAS for sukhois. NGHAS project for about 110 Nghas got final sanction in Jan 2019 but yet to see any large scale construction on ground as of date. I am not sure if the new HAS at bagdogra hashimara jorhat and couple of places in west are part of this ~110. Even if they do, they total to just about 1/3rd of the sanctioned number, which is pathetic given that 4.5 yrs have passed and we are so close to a war with china. Speaks a lot about the state of affairs. Weakness like these stop us from taking a harder stand against the Chinese.

Till the 90s PLAAF didn't have bases or aircraft or support like tankers that could get an attacking force over assam and even if managed somehow then would only lob inaccurate free fall bombs. So no importance was given to hardening the airbases in NE. PLAAF was huge in size but full of obsolete ac.

By underground hangar, what people refer to is tunnels / caverns dug into hill sides. IAF has ZERO such tunnels for housing aircraft. Sorry to burst this bubble but this is just a myth or legend spread by uninformed / wetdreaming jingo fanbois. Countries that built these for protecting aircraft include Sweden, Yugoslavia, noko, china, switzerland, taiwan, iran and maybe a very few more. China is still building these. They are easy to spot on satellite imagery so all are comprehensively catalogued n discussed online. India is never mentioned in these.

As far as I know there are no underground hangars anywhere in the world (other than on aircraft carriers :-) ) that require a lift to take the plane up and down into a below surface level storage facility. I vaguely recollect seeing some cold war US feasibility study into such a thing, which judged it too complex, expensive and no benefit over conventional HAS. Just mentioning this here before someone jumps and says India has this type of HAS. These types of things are used more for weapons and POL storage , C3, ops centres, etc and india may have such things, but for aircraft NO.

Kersi wrote: 26 Jul 2023 13:59
prashantsharma wrote: 26 Jul 2023 13:38 By legacy blast pen i mean ancient design, brick retaining walls, earth embankment, no protective doors, open top or sheet metal top
These were adequate till the early 90s when attacking an airbase meant u had to overfly it, then do a low level run or a dive bomb attack, accuracy was in the 10s of metres, so you didn't have to worry about building a blast pen / HAS to survive a direct hit or near miss. It was even deemed unnecessary to have protective doors on the HAS. With PGMs, all this changes
OK
As far as i know we have been having HAS since xx years. I have seen them at Chandigarh and Amritsar in late 1990s.
As such I don't thing we have HAS with doors. Generally they have a sort of retaining wall a few meters away.

Previously we could see a number of aircraft open on the tarmac. This is being replaced by a large sort of 'mandap' with top canopy but open on all sides. This was in a couple of AFBs in western region but now being built at many AFBs. This, i suppose, is only for protection against adverse conditions

A few of AFBs also have underground hangars obviously we cannot see them !!!
MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 909
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by MeshaVishwas »

The sexy "Baaz" from the "Tridents":
During a recent visit to a forward fighter base, the CAS Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari interacted with the personnel of the base and complimented them for their high state of operational preparedness.
Image
ImageImageImage
Images shared by VayuSena on Twitter
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

Just a noob qustion. How long will MiG 29 UPG remain in service ? My guess is upto 2035
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12688
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Pratyush »

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ars-441845

Oct 16, 2022 02:40 PM

It seems that the Mig 29 fleet is in a really bad way. If this article is to be believed. As the technical life of the platform is expected to start expiring from 2025 onwards.

The IAF is planning to enhance service life by another 10 years.
hgupta
BRFite
Posts: 555
Joined: 20 Oct 2018 14:17

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by hgupta »

Pratyush wrote: 30 Jul 2023 18:40 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ars-441845

Oct 16, 2022 02:40 PM

It seems that the Mig 29 fleet is in a really bad way. If this article is to be believed. As the technical life of the platform is expected to start expiring from 2025 onwards.

The IAF is planning to enhance service life by another 10 years.
I hope the MoD and RS will use this as an opportunity to force the IAF to procure more Tejas MK1As or MK2s. Tejas Mk1A matches or exceed MiG-29 in every way and with Mk2 it is even way better than the MiG-29s.
wig
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2232
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by wig »

https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/jk-air-f ... nath-cave/

J&K =Indian Air Force Helicopter (Mi17 V5) Airlifts Private Helicopter (AS-350) Near Amarnath Cave
excerpts
A Mi 17 V5 helicopter of the Air Force successfully recovered an AS-350 helicopter operated by a private operator from the Panchtarni helipad, the officials said. They said the challenging mission involved a complex underslung operation from a helipad located at a dizzying elevation of 11500 ft.

After lifting the underslung helicopter, the Mi-17 V5 pilots had to skilfully manoeuvre within steep and narrow gorges in the vicinity of the Amarnath cave shrine, with a very limited margin for error, the officials said. The crew displayed immaculate planning, systematic preparation and exceptional flying skills in recovering the damaged helicopter, they said.
As a result of the removal of the AS-350 helicopter, the Panchtarni helipad has been made available for use during the ongoing Amarnath Yatra, they added.
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

hgupta wrote: 31 Jul 2023 14:15
Pratyush wrote: 30 Jul 2023 18:40 Oct 16, 2022 02:40 PM
It seems that the Mig 29 fleet is in a really bad way. If this article is to be believed. As the technical life of the platform is expected to start expiring from 2025 onwards.
The IAF is planning to enhance service life by another 10 years.
I hope the MoD and RS will use this as an opportunity to force the IAF to procure more Tejas MK1As or MK2s. Tejas Mk1A matches or exceed MiG-29 in every way and with Mk2 it is even way better than the MiG-29s.
With due respect I dare say that the IAF will more likely push this event to get soem foreign toys i.e. MRFA
Kersi
BRFite
Posts: 467
Joined: 31 May 2017 12:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kersi »

wig wrote: 02 Aug 2023 06:48 https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/jk-air-f ... nath-cave/

J&K =Indian Air Force Helicopter (Mi17 V5) Airlifts Private Helicopter (AS-350) Near Amarnath Cave
excerpts
A Mi 17 V5 helicopter of the Air Force successfully recovered an AS-350 helicopter operated by a private operator from the Panchtarni helipad, the officials said. They said the challenging mission involved a complex underslung operation from a helipad located at a dizzying elevation of 11500 ft.

After lifting the underslung helicopter, the Mi-17 V5 pilots had to skilfully manoeuvre within steep and narrow gorges in the vicinity of the Amarnath cave shrine, with a very limited margin for error, the officials said. The crew displayed immaculate planning, systematic preparation and exceptional flying skills in recovering the damaged helicopter, they said.
As a result of the removal of the AS-350 helicopter, the Panchtarni helipad has been made available for use during the ongoing Amarnath Yatra, they added.
Me thinks that the Mi 8 / Mi 17, have been one of the best Russian products in Indian armed forces.

Maybe we should get more, awaiting Indian equivalent
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33654
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by chetak »

This is not an Indian Air force plane but the video is interesting

watch the details of the undercarriage retraction


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/N57Ms_j- ... ture=share
neerajb
BRFite
Posts: 854
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 14:18
Location: Delhi, India.

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by neerajb »

That clip has a C-5 retraction in between two C-17 shots. But it is amazing to see how no lines are visible after all those several doors shut! But the landing gear innovation award should go to Mig-23. It always amazes me how that chunky landing gear goes inside that tiny landing gear bay with that complicated bending mechanism.
dkhare
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 79
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 03:30

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by dkhare »

https://twitter.com/SupratikSaumya/stat ... 933103616
Bison seems to be upgraded with Rafael BNET-AR SDR judging by the antennae on the dorsal hump.

PC -
@Praneethfrank
Image
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14478
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Aditya_V »

The question is for a platform on the verge of retirement why?

Any airforce including US airforce is going to need 4.5 gen fighters for the next 30-40 years, IAF should order 51 Mk1A, get working on Mk2, Orca. While another team working on AMCA, all these will require very similar production ecosystems and skills.

This will help in the smooth retirement of Mig21, Jaguar, then MiG 29, M2000. We should get life extension for the Su 30MKI fleet to have it's useful 8 tonne payload.

All this 114 MRCA to be nipped in the bud.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5825
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kartik »

Pratyush wrote: 30 Jul 2023 18:40 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ars-441845

Oct 16, 2022 02:40 PM

It seems that the Mig 29 fleet is in a really bad way. If this article is to be believed. As the technical life of the platform is expected to start expiring from 2025 onwards.

The IAF is planning to enhance service life by another 10 years.
What in the article made you think that the Fulcrum fleet is "in a really bad way"? The calendar life of the upgraded MiG-29UPGs will start to expire in 2025, which necessitates the No.11 BRD to come up with another life extension of 10 years after carrying out a full inspection and analysis on the fleet. It may even allow the IAF to study the feasibility of replacing the Zhuk-MEF with a version of the Uttam AESA sized to fit the Fulcrum's radome and power capacity.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5825
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kartik »

Aditya_V wrote: 09 Aug 2023 07:12 The question is for a platform on the verge of retirement why?

Any airforce including US airforce is going to need 4.5 gen fighters for the next 30-40 years, IAF should order 51 Mk1A, get working on Mk2, Orca. While another team working on AMCA, all these will require very similar production ecosystems and skills.

This will help in the smooth retirement of Mig21, Jaguar, then MiG 29, M2000. We should get life extension for the Su 30MKI fleet to have it's useful 8 tonne payload.

All this 114 MRCA to be nipped in the bud.
The Bisons will soldier on for another 2 years at least till the Tejas Mk1As start flowing in numbers. Till then anything could happen and the Bisons need to be fighting fit.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5825
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by Kartik »

hgupta wrote: 31 Jul 2023 14:15
Pratyush wrote: 30 Jul 2023 18:40 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... ars-441845

Oct 16, 2022 02:40 PM

It seems that the Mig 29 fleet is in a really bad way. If this article is to be believed. As the technical life of the platform is expected to start expiring from 2025 onwards.

The IAF is planning to enhance service life by another 10 years.
I hope the MoD and RS will use this as an opportunity to force the IAF to procure more Tejas MK1As or MK2s. Tejas Mk1A matches or exceed MiG-29 in every way and with Mk2 it is even way better than the MiG-29s.
The Tejas Mk2 is slated to succeed the MiG-29 in service. The Tejas Mk1A squadrons will only fill the Bison numbers. Till then the MiG-29UPGs have a big role to play given how mature the fleet and its squadrons are.

Tejas Mk2s will only start to roll off the assembly line in 2030 or so and their orders will be placed keeping in mind the Mirage-2000, MiG-29 and Jaguar fleets that need to be replaced. The numbers of Tejas Mk2 will easily go up to 200 or more.
wig
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2232
Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58

Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 23 March 2021

Post by wig »

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/ind ... 46904.html

India deploys upgraded MiG-29 fighter jets squadron at Srinagar to tackle threats from Pakistan, China

excerpts
The Tridents squadron, also known as the ‘Defender of the North’ has replaced the MiG-21 squadron at the Srinagar air base which has traditionally been responsible for taking care of the threat from border nations. MiG-29s were moved to the Srinagar air base in January this year and have flown extensively in the Kashmir valley along with the Ladakh sector where they would be one of the first to respond in case of any air space violation attempts by the Chinese.
Sqn Ldr Vipul Sharma, IAF says
“Srinagar lies in the centre of Kashmir valley and its elevation is higher than plains. It is strategically better to place an aircraft with a higher weight-to-thrust ratio and less response time due to proximity to the border and is equipped with better avionics and long-range missiles. The MiG-29 fulfils all these criteria due to which we are capable of taking in the enemies on both fronts."
and
Another pilot Squadron Leader Shivam Rana said the upgraded aircraft can operate at night with night vision goggles and has a longer range due to air-to-air refuelling capability. “We have also included the air-to-ground armament which was not there earlier. The biggest capability of the aircraft are the pilots which are handpicked by the Indian Air Force to serve on these aircraft,"
Post Reply