India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

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drnayar
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by drnayar »

Tanaji wrote:https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 91202.html

Keen to engage with India on nuclear test ban treaty
CTBT Organization executive secretary Dr Robert Floyd defends US on subcritical N-tests, would like New Delhi to have observer status on Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty

Reading between the lines, he has been told to get lost.

Why would india agree to this when pakis have access to Chinese and no ko data on weapon tests.. the latter is very much a reality.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by bala »

Former Principal Scientific Advisor Rajagopala Chidambaram interview (in Hindi). He talks about Pokhran-1 (18 May 1974) and Pokhran-2 (11 and 13 May 1998). He shares how India became a nuclear power and when India did a nuclear test, how the whole world saw it.

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by drnayar »




Interesting stuff about Rosatom ..one stop shop for *all* nuclear requirements !!

i suspect if the French and Americans do not do their job with their respective sites in India those would go to Rosatom as well !!.. also the local "opposition" to kudankulam ..the fishermen led by their Christian bishops all makes sense.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/india-fra ... -fire-due/
Seven years after a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) was signed between India and France for setting up the largest nuclear power plant in the world at Jaitapur (Maharashtra), the project is still hanging fire.

as for the americans.,

https://www.powermag.com/india-eyes-maj ... ear-power/

The U.S. and India in 2019 signed a deal in which the U.S. pledged to support construction of at least six nuclear power plants in India, and the two countries in February revisited previous agreements from as long ago as 2008 that could facilitate U.S. backing of India’s nuclear power program. Officials in India also have signed civil nuclear cooperation agreements with another dozen countries, including Russia, Canada, and France, that would support the deployment of additional reactors. The Nuclear Power Corp. of India (NPCI) has received government backing to build a series of 700-MW PHWR reactors as part of the country’s domestic nuclear power program. Westinghouse and the NPCI in 2016 had a broad agreement for the U.S. company to build as many as six reactors in India, but the deal collapsed after Westinghouse declared bankruptcy in 2017.

Why not just give both Jaitapur and the one in AP to the Russians who will get the job done. who cares about politics., just give some piecemeal order for Rafales or civil aircraft.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Cyrano »

Largest indigenously developed N-plant unit in Gujarat starts ops at full capacity
This comes a little over three years since the unit achieved its ‘first criticality’ – a technical term that signifies the initiation of a controlled, but sustained nuclear fission reaction – in July 2020. On June 30 this year, the unit had started commercial operations.
Written by Anil Sasi


https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... y-8918642/
The third unit of the indigenously developed 700-megawatt electric (MWe) nuclear power reactor at the Kakrapar Atomic Power Project (KAPP3) in Gujarat has commenced operations at full capacity.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on social media platform X, “India achieves another milestone. The largest indigenous 700 MWe Kakrapar Nuclear Power Plant Unit-3 in Gujarat starts operations at full capacity. Congratulations to our scientists and engineers.”

This comes a little over three years since the unit achieved its ‘first criticality’ – a technical term that signifies the initiation of a controlled, but sustained nuclear fission reaction – in July 2020. On June 30 this year, the unit had started commercial operations.

In India’s civilian nuclear programme, this is seen as a landmark event, given that KAPP-3 is the country’s first 700 MWe unit and the biggest indigenously developed variant of the Pressurised Heavy Water Reactor (PHWR). The PHWRs, which use natural uranium as fuel and heavy water as moderator, constitute the mainstay of India’s nuclear power fleet. Till now, the biggest reactor of indigenous design was the 540 MWe PHWR, two of which have been deployed in Tarapur, Maharashtra.

For India, the operationalisation of its first 700MWe reactor is a significant scale up in technology, both in terms of the optimisation of its PHWR design — the new 700MWe unit addresses the excess thermal margins (thermal margin refers to the extent to which the operating temperature of the reactor is below its maximum operating temperature) — and also marks an improvement in the economies-of-scale, without significant design changes to the 540 MWe reactor.

Four units of the 700MWe reactor are being constructed at Kakrapar (KAPP-3 and 4) and Rawatbhata (RAPS-7 and 8) site in Rajasthan currently. The 700MWe reactors are slated to be backbone of a new fleet of 12 reactors that the NDA government accorded administrative approval and financial sanction in 2017 and that are to be set up in fleet mode.

As India works to ramp up its existing nuclear power capacity of 7,480 MWe to 22,480 MWe by 2031, the 700MWe capacity would constitute the biggest component of this expansion plan. Currently, nuclear power capacity constitutes around 2 per cent of the total installed capacity of 4,17,668 MW (May 31).

Significantly, as India’s civilian nuclear sector gears up to its next frontier — building a 900 MWe Pressurised Water Reactors (PWRs) of indigenous design – the experience of executing the larger 700MWe reactor design would come in handy, especially with respect to the improved capability of making large-size pressure vessels, alongside India’s own isotope enrichment plants being developed to supply a part of the required enriched uranium fuel to power these new generation reactors over the next decade or so, according to DAE officials.

The first ‘pour of concrete’ for laying the foundation of KAPP-3 happened in November 2010 and this unit was originally expected to be commissioned in 2015. State-owned Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd (NPCIL), which operates the bulk of India’s nuclear power fleet, had awarded the reactor building contract of both KAPP Unit 3 and 4 to Larsen & Toubro at an original contract value of Rs 844 crore. The original cost of two 700 MWe units was pegged at Rs 11,500 crore and the tariff per unit was originally calculated at Rs 2.80 per unit (kWh) at 2010 prices (roughly a cost of about Rs 8 crore per MWe). The costing is expected to have seen some escalation, given the project delays.

The capital investment for these nuclear power projects is being funded with a debt-to-equity ratio of 70:30, with the equity part of NPCIL being funded from internal resources and through budgetary support.

In terms of safety features, the PHWR technology scores high, with the biggest advantage of the PHWR design being the use of thin walled pressure tubes instead of large pressure vessels used in pressure vessel type reactors. This results in a distribution of pressure boundaries to a large number of small diameter pressure tubes and thereby lowers the severity of the consequence of an accidental rupture of the pressure boundary than in a pressure vessel type reactor.

Additionally, the 700 MWe PHWR design has enhanced safety through dedicated ‘Passive Decay Heat Removal System’, which has the capability of removing decay heat (the heat released as a result of radioactive decay) from the reactor core without requiring any operator actions, on the lines of similar technology adopted for Generation III+ plants to negate the possibility of a Fukushima type accident that happened in Japan in 2011. The 700 MWe PHWR unit, like the one deployed in KAPP, is equipped with a steel-lined containment to reduce any leakages and a containment spray system to reduce the containment pressure in case of a loss of coolant accident.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

xpost (See other items in the joint statement I posted in US dhaga)

^^^ Also India, US welcomed "intensified consultations" to expand opportunities for facilitating India-U.S. collaboration in nuclear energy, including in development of next generation small modular reactor technologies in a collaborative mode
(See the joint statement posted above)
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by bala »

Understanding the quest for Thorium Energy



India has the largest reserves of Thorium. The material is extractable from the beach sand minerals (Ilmenite, monazite, zircon) of Kerala. Besides Kerala, Odisha, AP, TN, WB, Jharkhand also have decent amounts of monazite. A molten salt reactor (first created in 1940 in the US) is required for Thorium. Stage 1: use uranium in PHWR. Stage 2: Plutonium obtained from the spent fuel in PHWR will be used in Fast Breeder Reactors. Stage 3: Thorium is converted to U-233 in reactor. This is used as fuel.

India: 1st Stage: PHWR is done and indigenous. 2nd Stage: Fast Breeder Stage at Kalpakkam. 500 MWe construction of reactor to begin soon. 3rd Stage: we have research reactors 30MW - Kamini reactor in IGCAR used U233 as fuel. Efforts are currently on to enlarge to bigger scale.

BARC has an Advanced HWR 300 MW that utilizes Thorium. Limited Plutonium is the thing that stops thorium cycle reactors to being scaled up in India. What can India do? India can hasten things a) buy plutonium from other nations b) enhance plutonium production.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by drnayar »

As far as i know India is sitting on some of the biggest Pu stockpiles in the world !! ~ 9.9 tons of separated Pu

but apparently geared towards weapon programmes

https://fissilematerials.org/
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

IAEA Chief Rafaelmgrossi meets EAM Jaishankar & call on PM Modi in Delhi Image

(IMO, This visit is a positive development and it is likely to lead to closer cooperation on a range of nuclear issues.
The visit of the IAEA Chief to India is also significant in the context of the current global energy crisis. Nuclear energy is a clean and reliable source of energy, and it can play an important role in helping countries to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels. India's growing investment in nuclear energy is therefore a positive step towards a more sustainable and secure energy future)
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by bala »

Padma Vibhushan Dr.Anil Kakodkar's, the luminary at the forefront of nuclear physics and mechanical engineering, talk at IIT Madras. With an illustrious career, he's been the guiding force behind India's atomic energy journey, holding pivotal roles such as Chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission of India, Secretary to the Government of India, and Chairman of the Board of Governors at IIT Bombay. His contributions to scientific knowledge have earned him India's highest civilian honors – the Padma Shri, Padma Bhushan, and Padma Vibhushan.

Dr. Kakodkar's work is more than just groundbreaking science; it's an inspiration. As we grapple with soaring energy demands and the urgency of climate change, he underscores the importance of ramping up our nuclear energy ambitions.

Time to raise India's ambition in Nuclear Energy.



Currently consumption stands around 6580 THHr/yr, requirement is around 28000 THHr/yr, renewable potential is 8000 THHr/yr and rest from Nuclear.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sanman »

Is this a useful new nuclear fuel to exploit Thorium, or is it just hype?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjTwgo_l88Y

Gemini/Bard summary:
This video talks about a new type of nuclear fuel called ANEEL that can potentially help India use its thorium reserves.

India has a lot of coal but it is not an ideal fuel because it emits a lot of carbon dioxide. So, India is looking for alternative fuels, and thorium is a good candidate. However, there were challenges in using thorium as a fuel before. This video talks about a new type of nuclear fuel called ANEEL that can help India use its thorium reserves. ANEEL is a mixture of uranium and thorium, but it uses very little uranium and more thorium. This means that it does not need a lot of uranium 235 or plutonium 239, which are difficult to get. ANEEL also burns up much longer than conventional fuel, and it produces less nuclear waste. Additionally, there is no concern of this being diverted to weapon use.

The speaker of the video, M.Rames, interviewed the CEO of Clean Core Thorium Energy, which is the company that developed ANEEL. The CEO, Mr. Sha, explained that ANEEL is almost market ready and they anticipate commercializing it in 2026. Overall, this video is about a new type of nuclear fuel that has the potential to help India use its thorium reserves and transition to green energy.

I hope this summary is helpful!
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by JTull »

LE Uranium is the problem here. We've never invested that much in centrifuge tech to be able to produce it at industrial scale (to power 15-20GW of PHWRs with this ANEEL fuel), for fear of attracting attention.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by bala »

PM Modi to inaugurate indigenous nuclear prototype fast breeder reactor at Kalpakkam, Tamil Nadu. Prime Minister Narendra Modi to witness initiation of core loading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8NMCL1Uhvc
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by bala »

INDIA'S THORIUM LEAP TOWARDS SELF SUFFICIENT NUCLEAR ENERGY by LT GEN P R SHANKAR (Retd)



LT GEN P R SHANKAR explains a complicated matter (Thorium Nuclear Fuel program Cycle) in a simple manner and also tells the viewer about the strategic implications - Thorium Reactors are a game changer for Bharat. Lots of research material from the outcome of twenty year scientific research and trials. Very detailed and in-depth coverage of fast breeder technology.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sanman »

bala wrote: 18 Apr 2024 07:51 INDIA'S THORIUM LEAP TOWARDS SELF SUFFICIENT NUCLEAR ENERGY by LT GEN P R SHANKAR (Retd)
I watched that live video stream when he gave it.

I wanted to ask him - or even anyone here - whether any of you have heard of the hybrid fusion-thorium design concept, whereby a fusion reaction operating below breakeven serves as the neutron source for a thorium blanket, producing energy to feed the fusion reaction. No uranium is required in this process.

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-scientist ... actor.html

https://transpowerusa.com/wordpress/cle ... -reactors/
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sanman »

bala wrote: 18 Apr 2024 07:51 INDIA'S THORIUM LEAP TOWARDS SELF SUFFICIENT NUCLEAR ENERGY by LT GEN P R SHANKAR (Retd)

...

LT GEN P R SHANKAR explains a complicated matter (Thorium Nuclear Fuel program Cycle) in a simple manner and also tells the viewer about the strategic implications - Thorium Reactors are a game changer for Bharat. Lots of research material from the outcome of twenty year scientific research and trials. Very detailed and in-depth coverage of fast breeder technology.
I posted a comment to his video which he replied to:
Me: Has anyone heard of the hybrid fusion-thorium design, where a fusion reaction operating below breakeven acts as the neutron source for a thorium blanket, thus producing energy to feed/sustain that same fusion reaction. No uranium is required!

Him: Fusion is next generation...

Me: thanks for your reply, sir! Fusion below breakeven (running at an energy deficit instead of net energy output) is something that can certainly be done right now. And it would enable us to breed more Plutonium & U233 in the meantime, just like the rest of Phase 2 -- but it does not require any Uranium, and thus bypasses that limitation which you had pointed to.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by JTull »

sanman wrote: 03 May 2024 08:54
I posted a comment to his video which he replied to:
Me: Has anyone heard of the hybrid fusion-thorium design, where a fusion reaction operating below breakeven acts as the neutron source for a thorium blanket, thus producing energy to feed/sustain that same fusion reaction. No uranium is required!

Him: Fusion is next generation...

Me: thanks for your reply, sir! Fusion below breakeven (running at an energy deficit instead of net energy output) is something that can certainly be done right now. And it would enable us to breed more Plutonium & U233 in the meantime, just like the rest of Phase 2 -- but it does not require any Uranium, and thus bypasses that limitation which you had pointed to.
Using hybrid and fusion in the same sentence can be confusing to many.

Hybrid fuels are common used but hybrids with Thorium need further investigation. Using the hybrid isn't straightforward as achieving initial criticality may not be easy with Thorium absorption. Studies must be conducted on neutron flux and how it changes with thorium conversion.

Fusion carries different meaning in case of nuclear science. It is not a jugalbandi. I see many problems with idea. Why would you want to bring Thorium into the mix when a sustainable fusion reaction can give you for an energy source for eternity? Let humanity first build commercial fusion reactors before we worry about the rest.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sanman »

JTull wrote: 03 May 2024 15:24 Using hybrid and fusion in the same sentence can be confusing to many.

Hybrid fuels are common used but hybrids with Thorium need further investigation. Using the hybrid isn't straightforward as achieving initial criticality may not be easy with Thorium absorption. Studies must be conducted on neutron flux and how it changes with thorium conversion.

Fusion carries different meaning in case of nuclear science. It is not a jugalbandi. I see many problems with idea. Why would you want to bring Thorium into the mix when a sustainable fusion reaction can give you for an energy source for eternity? Let humanity first build commercial fusion reactors before we worry about the rest.
The problem is that there is no sustainable fusion reaction yet. There have long been plenty of devices producing fusion below breakeven, but no devices yet which produce fusion above breakeven. Such devices have existed even since 1950s & 60s.

As general-sahib pointed out, our main constraint in our 3-stage program has been lack of uranium.
If uranium had not been a constraint, India's nuclear energy program would have proceeded much faster.

The hybrid fusion-thorium approach does not require uranium as a starting point. All you need is thorium, and the ability to produce a fusion reaction that acts as a neutron source. Here, the thorium is producing energy and also producing the U233 needed for phase 3 of our program, with the help of the fusion reaction which produces no net energy output.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by JTull »

Arrey Bhai, let's say we produce enormous amount of energy using fusion with 1g of tritium inside thorium blanket. You need neutrons and not entire neuclides, and that too at right velocity and flux to allow capture. How do you plan to sustain the reaction at just the right criticality, and transfer thermal energy?

Please research a little bit on how a real world reactor works, some reactions and the quantities of fuel and energy involved.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by wig »

https://m.rediff.com/news/interview/dr- ... 240506.htm
interview with Dr Anil Kakodkar. worth while to read the complete article
Dr Anil Kakodkar was chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission from 2000 to 2009, during which India signed the civilian nuclear agreement with the United States. Before that, from 1996 to 2000, he was director of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, a period during which India conducted two nuclear tests in May 1998.
discussion on the 1998 TN test
I asked my colleagues, after these doubts to develop a 3-D model, to look at the rock movement consequently shock, arising out of a nuclear blast.

These movements are different from a normal blast because the strain rates are high, hence the equations to be used are not the same.

Mind you at that time, nobody had developed such a model, including in the US.

Outsiders cite the profile of a test site from satellite pictures after the test and the teleseismic data from some earthquake monitoring stations like they have in Uppasala, Sweden, etc to talk with so much confidence and create doubts about our claims.

So to call that bluff, I said. We not only developed a 3D model but also qualified by using data from Baneberry test (external link) in the US which unfortunately had vented -- leaked radiation.

Because it had vented there was an enquiry and hence a lot of data came out in the public domain.

So we used the Baneberry data and our predictions and sent a paper to a well-known US journal.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

wig wrote: 06 May 2024 15:09 https://m.rediff.com/news/interview/dr- ... 240506.htm
interview with Dr Anil Kakodkar. worth while to read the complete articlequote]
Dr Anil Kakodkar was chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission from 2000 to 2009, during which India signed the civilian nuclear agreement with the United States. Before that, from 1996 to 2000, he was director of the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, a period during which India conducted two nuclear tests in May 1998.


So to call that bluff, I said. We not only developed a 3D model but also qualified by using data from Baneberry test (external link) in the US which unfortunately had vented -- leaked radiation.

Because it had vented there was an enquiry and hence a lot of data came out in the public domain.

So we used the Baneberry data and our predictions and sent a paper to a well-known US journal.
Thanks for posting the interview. (In physics world most of what he says is well known)

----
I mentioned my visit to Nevada National Security Site <see link in other dhaga>, a place steeped in history with over 100 atmospheric nuclear tests and 1000s of underground tests.. Apart from the first Atom bomb tested in New Mexico's Trinity site (which i visited in the past) *all* atomic tests inside USA were tested here. This includes the infamous Baneberry test...

(The Nevada Test Site tours typically cover several historical and significant locations within the site, including the remains of test towers, craters from various explosions, and other notable landmarks etc.. these tours are still difficult to get as they do not happen much often for ordinary folks)

The Baneberry nuclear test was an underground nuclear test conducted by the United States on December 18, 1970, at the Nevada Test Site (now known as the Nevada National Security Site). The test was part of the Operation Emery series and took place in Area U8.

Here are some key details about the Baneberry test:

Date: December 18, 1970
Location: Nevada Test Site, Area U8
Yield: 10 kilotons

The Baneberry test is notable because it resulted in an unexpected release of radioactive material into the atmosphere. This was due to a failure in the geological containment of the test, which caused a fissure to open on the surface, allowing radioactive gases and debris to escape. The release of radiation led to the exposure of test site workers and prompted significant public concern and environmental monitoring.

The incident led to changes in testing procedures and increased attention to the containment and environmental impact of nuclear tests.

(For those who have some interest, one can see details on pp 57 of:
https://nnss.gov/wp-content/uploads/202 ... 5_Rev1.pdf

PPP57:
Image

some info also at : https://www.brookings.edu/nuclear-testi ... test-site/
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sanman »

Interview with Anil Kakodkar, focusing on 1974 tests:

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Indian engineering company Larsen & Toubro (L&T) has shipped the second steam generator destined for the units 5 and 6 of the Kaiga nuclear power plant in Karnataka State.

L&T flags off second steam generator for new Kaiga units
Image
A "flagging off" ceremony was held on 12 July by L&T to mark the shipment of the steam generator from its Hazira complex in Gujarat.

Speaking at the ceremony, Anil Parab, whole-time director and senior executive vice president - L&T Heavy Engineering & L&T Valves, said: "L&T Heavy Engineering, as an industry trendsetter, continues to create global benchmarks in delivery of critical nuclear equipment. Eleven-month early delivery of this second steam generator is another example of consistency and resilience even during pandemic and supply chain disruptions. We are fully geared up as the trusted and dedicated partner of the Department of Atomic Energy and Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) to triple the current installed nuclear power capacity to 100 GWe by 2047."

In March 2018, L&T Special Steels and Heavy Forgings Private Limited - a joint venture between L&T and NPCIL - received an order worth INR4.42 billion (USD52.9 million) from NPCIL to supply forgings for steam generators. These forgings will be used in the manufacture of the critical equipment for six new indigenous 700 MWe pressurised heavy water reactors (PHWRs), part of the Indian government's plan to construct ten PHWR units.

The Indian cabinet in 2017 approved the construction of ten domestically designed 700 MWe PHWR units using a fleet mode of construction to bring economies of scale as well as maximising efficiency. The first two of these units are Kaiga 5 and 6.

L&T delivered the first steam generator for Kaiga units 5 and 6 in March this year, 12 months ahead of contractual delivery.

Steam generators are heat exchangers used to convert water into steam from heat produced in a nuclear reactor core. In PHWRs, the coolant is pumped, at high pressure to prevent boiling, from the reactor coolant pump, through the nuclear reactor core, and through the tube side of the steam generators before returning to the pump.

L&T says it has "a proven track record of manufacturing more than 42 steam generators for major nuclear power plants across the nation"
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

I am putting this post here in stead of international Nuclear dhaga - It's has nice information and for those who are interested from India's point of view - highly recommend it for perspective:
(I am glad new Modi admin and current budget - priority i is given to Nuclear Energy)

Points/summary in the article: Clean Energy
How China became the king of new nuclear power - And what we (India should learn)

- China is the breakaway global leader in new nuclear construction.

- China has 21 nuclear reactors under construction which will have a capacity for generating more than 21 gigawatts of electricity, according to the International Atomic Energy Agency. That is two and a half times more nuclear reactors under construction than any other country.


- India has the second largest nuclear buildout right now, with eight reactors under construction that will be able to generate more than six gigawatts of electricity. Third place Turkey has four nuclear reactors under construction with a presumed capacity of 4.5 gigawatts.

The United States currently has one nuclear reactor under construction, the fourth reactor at the Vogtle power plant in Georgia, which will be able to generate just over 1 gigawatt. (For the sake of comparison, a gigawatt is about enough to power a mid-sized city.)

“China is the de facto world leader in nuclear technology at the moment,” Jacopo Buongiorno, professor of nuclear science and engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told CNBC.

China is “the determined and pacing leader in global nuclear ambition at the moment,” agrees Kenneth Luongo, president and founder of the Partnership for Global Security, a nuclear and transnational security and energy policy non-profit. China is “leading, even racing ahead,” Luongo said.
---(Please see the article )
---
My take: China nuclear power has (vs India) pros and cons (for China's perspective):
Pro: Massive expansion exceeding all other countries thanks to state-supported financing, supply chain and mandates
Cons: Little opportunity for free market and startup-driven innovation where the India can shine
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vera_k »

Most of these Chinese plants are involved in weapons production, yes? And this accounts for why the Chinese nuclear arsenal is expected to outgrow the US arsenal in about 10 years.

Advantage Over Parity: Assessing China’s Expanding Nuclear Arsenal
China is the fastest growing nuclear power on the planet, building 100 new nuclear warheads every year. While many assume that China’s nuclear arsenal will be the same size as that of the United States’ by 2035, this is mere speculation in absence of evidence. Indeed,
there is ample historical reason to believe that China will seek to grow a nuclear arsenal that is substantially larger and more advanced than the United States’ in the coming two decades.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Most of these Chinese plants are involved in weapons production, yes?
Not really (IMO) -- China (and for that matter India, or US) has already more than enough Pu for any kind of weapons program. Driving force for China, at present - at present it depends mainly on Coal and that is not sustainable for Energy..

Meanwhile:

India's Installed Nuclear Power Capacity to Triple by 2031-32: (per our Union Minister @DrJitendraSingh)


India Aims for 100,000 MW Nuclear Capacity by 2047 for Net Zero Transition

70% Surge in India's Nuclear Power Capacity in the last 10 years and 21 New Nuclear Reactors with 15,300 MW Capacity Underway )
More at : https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetail.aspx?PRID=2037046
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vera_k »

Not really (IMO) -- China (and for that matter India, or US) has already more than enough Pu for any kind of weapons program. Driving force for China, at present - at present it depends mainly on Coal and that is not sustainable for Energy..

Meanwhile:

India's Installed Nuclear Power Capacity to Triple by 2031-32: (per our Union Minister @DrJitendraSingh)
Not really comparable. The Chinese plants are not under IAEA safeguards, and public estimates say the Chinese don't have enough Pu stockpiled for the kind of expansion they are shooting for, leave alone what they might supply to their client states. Assuming that they stockpiled 3.5 tonnes of Pu at the high end, and assuming each bomb requires 3.5kg of Pu at the low end, they necessarily must divert Pu from one of the currently operating reactors to build more than a 1000 bombs.

China
China has produced plutonium for weapons at two sites: the Jiuquan Atomic Energy Complex (also referred as Plant 404) near Yumen in Gansu province and the Guangyuan plutonium production complex (Plant 821), located at Guangyuan in
Sichuan province. The plutonium production reactor at Jiuquan is believed to have been shut down in 1984. The reactor at Guangyuan probably stopped plutonium production by 1989.

China's two plutonium production reactors produced an estimated 3.2±0.6 tonnes of weapon-grade plutonium. Of this amount, about 360 kg of plutonium is estimated to have been consumed in China's nuclear tests and lost in production. The current inventory of weapon-grade plutonium is therefore estimated to be 2.9±0.6 tonnes.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ There may be some point in all such calculations given above - - but FWIW --- speaking as a nuclear physicist let me just make few comments (Any good text book or a source can get more details or verify this)

--
(Rough Estimates for Weapons-Grade Material Production from Nuclear Reactors - as a physicist)
Note that these estimates are highly simplified and based on general assumptions, as actual values depend on various factors like reactor type, fuel cycle, and operational parameters etc.. but they still convey what we want to know)
- Typical nuclear reactors: Pressurized Water Reactors (PWRs) or Light Water Reactors (LWRs), Fuel UO2 enrichment level around 3-5% U235 ... 1/3 of thermal energy converted to Electricity (

Rough Estimates (lower and upper bounds) for Weapons-Grade Material Production per KWh of Electricity:
(I am dealing with Pu Only)
Plutonium-239 (Pu-239):
Lower bound: 0.01-0.1 (mg/KWh)
Upper bound: 1-10 mg/KWh

Conversion Factors:
1 kilogram (kg) of Pu-239 ≈ 1-2 nuclear weapons (depending on design and efficiency)

Granted these estimates are rough and based on simplifying assumptions. Actual values can vary significantly depending on reactor specifics, operational conditions, and fuel cycles. Additionally, modern nuclear reactors are designed with safeguards to prevent diversion of materials for weapons production ityadi ... but still..

This means
Average annual electricity generation per reactor: 8-10 billion KWh ( rough estimate)

Taking some numbers as I see (Number of operational reactors in each country (approximate) reactors (last numbers I have):
China: 50, India 20, US 90
We have for China:
Total annual electricity generation ≈ 459 billion KWh
Pu-239 production: 459 billion KWh * 10 mg/KWh ≈ 4.6 Tons/year
Total Pu-239 available (assuming 10 years of operation): 46 Tons.
India:

Pu-239 production: 207 billion KWh * 10 mg/KWh ≈ 2 Tons /year
Total Pu-239 available (assuming 10 years of operation): 20 Tons
USA:
8 Tons / Year
Total 80 Tons (in 10 years)

(Actual values - getting good data may differ by a factor of 10 (or even 100) or more .. but these are rough estimates to see if the amount they give make sense or not..

(I may - when i get chance - check and may edit these figures.. but this is the way if some wants to have better guess etc with more information - my point is China can produce - (if it directs all its initiative to only produce a Pu as much as it can) about 5 tons of Pu per year..)

Added Later:
Looking at some resources (International Panel on Fissile Materials (IPFM), FAS and WNA):

For China:

2020: 1,400-2,000 kg (Source: Federation of American Scientists) (about 2 tons / year in 2020)
Total Plutonium Stockpile:
2020: 18,000-25,000 kg (Source: Federation of American Scientists)

Weapons-Grade Plutonium Stockpile:
Estimates suggest China has around 2,000-5,000 kg of weapons-grade plutonium (Pu-239) in its stockpile, with some sources indicating a higher range of 5,000-10,000 kg. (5 to 10 tons)

I
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Why India is prioritising small nuclear reactors


Excerpts:
As India aims to diversify its energy sources, the Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has put nuclear energy in focus in the Union budget 2024-25, presented on July 23. She listed it as one of the nine priority areas for the government.

The minister said nuclear energy is expected to form a significant part of the country’s energy mix in the coming years and has announced setting up of small nuclear plants.

Moneycontrol takes a look at the rationale behind the government’s plan to include nuclear energy in India’s energy basket.

What are small nuclear reactors?

As the name suggests, small modular reactors (SMRs) are nuclear reactors with smaller generating capacity than a traditional nuclear power reactor. SMRs generally have a power capacity of up to 300 MW(e) per unit.
<snip>
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

India's Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) has received approval from the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) to start nuclear fuel loading and initiate a controlled chain reaction. This marks a significant step towards utilizing plutonium as fuel and exploring thorium as an energy source, which is crucial for India's self-reliant atomic energy program. India has limited uranium reserves but abundant thorium reserves, and mastering thorium fuel could ensure energy independence for over three centuries.

This development now marks the use of plutonium as a nuclear fuel and more importantly the first steps at using thorium as an atomic energy source.

The PFBR is a fast breeder reactor that produces more fuel than it consumes, making it an "endless energy source." This is significant because India already operates a Fast Breeder Test Reactor (FBTR) at Kalpakkam for 39 years, and the PFBR represents a major advancement in India's nuclear power program. The reactor's ability to generate more fuel than it uses makes it an attractive option for sustainable and long-term energy production, and its development could have a profound impact on India's energy landscape.

India's Most Advanced Nuclear Reactor At Kalpakkam Gets Approval From Atomic Energy Board

From NDTV: India's Most Advanced Nuclear Reactor Approaches Finish Line
India's atomic energy program has crossed a big hurdle, the country's most advanced and most complex nuclear reactor the Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) located at Kalpakkam in Tamil Nadu has finally got approval from India's atomic regulator to start loading the nuclear fuel and then to go ahead and initiate the controlled chain reaction. "It is a huge milestone for India's self-reliant atomic energy program," confirmed Dinesh Kumar Shukla, Chairman of the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board who added that the "PFBR is an inherently safe reactor".
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Manish_P »

Amber G. wrote: 30 Jul 2024 20:02 India's Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor (PFBR) has received approval from the Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) to start nuclear fuel loading and initiate a controlled chain reaction. This marks a significant step towards utilizing plutonium as fuel and exploring thorium as an energy source, which is crucial for India's self-reliant atomic energy program. India has limited uranium reserves but abundant thorium reserves, and mastering thorium fuel could ensure energy independence for over three centuries.

This development now marks the use of plutonium as a nuclear fuel and more importantly the first steps at using thorium as an atomic energy source.

The PFBR is a fast breeder reactor that produces more fuel than it consumes, making it an "endless energy source." This is significant because India already operates a Fast Breeder Test Reactor (FBTR) at Kalpakkam for 39 years, and the PFBR represents a major advancement in India's nuclear power program. ....
Excellent news.

Percentage of nuclear to overall power generation in India is less than 5% IIRC. Max contribution is from coal. France has some 70% power coming from nuclear source.

India is going to need multiple magnitudes of power to 'lift' it's people to the next levels of success.

My immense respect and gratitude to all those who are making it possible.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

^^^ Yes around 70% of India's electricity generation comes from coal ...and may be around 6% from Natural Gas..
But AFAIK ( some projections may be my guesses based on valid basis)..

- India has surpassed its 2030 renewable energy goals and aims to invest over $35 billion annually in advanced energy solutions by 2030 . The country plans to build 47 gigawatts (GW)/236 GW hours (GWh) of battery storage capacity by 2031-32 and achieve a production capacity of 5 million metric tonnes (MMT) of clean hydrogen by 2030..

- India aims to reach net-zero emissions by 2070 and is actively working towards decarbonizing its energy mix. T he country's energy demand is expected to increase significantly by 2050, driven by GDP growth,

Projections: By 2030, India aims to achieve:
30 MMT capacity of carbon capture and storage
2 MMT of sustainable aviation fuels
Build an electrolyzer manufacturing capacity equal to 40GW

- Increase solar’s share in the country’s power mix from ( around 5 % now) v 17% by FY 2027, and to 25% by FY 2032.
(current plans aim to increase solar capacity to 186 GW by FY 2027....
(Two thirds of India’s power generation growth in the next 10 years will be from solar and wind.)
- India aims to increase its nuclear energy capacity to 23 GW by 2031 (up from from about 8GW)
Since Modi admin has announced plans to increase support for nuclear energy, including providing financial assistance and promoting research and development in the sector ..
P... nuclear energy production is expected to grow significantly by 2050,( given country's s commitment to reducing greenhouse gas emissions)....( 50% of its cumulative electric power installed capacity from non-fossil fuel-based energy resources, including nuclear, by 2030)

- (Yes I know these are projections .. . Others may agree or not, but consistent with my best guesses.... some details - similar projection - see for example https://www.iisd.org/story/mapping-indi ... 22-update/
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Tanaji »

I am curious about the small nuclear power plants and the reasoning being them: India is densely populated and there are not many locations available that are far from habitation to put a NPP in. The ones that are proposed are mired in protests and sundry litigation. So would not one want to go for bigger plants to counter this? Yes, smaller plants are well understood and simple engineering wise to operate but I wonder how the trade of is…
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

^^^

You're right that India's dense population and limited land availability pose challenges.. (and these are there for NPP's or SNPPs):
Some points: (also helpful is the link I gave for SNPP's in my last post)
- SNPPs are designed to be compact, scalable, and modular, making them suitable for smaller sites, even in densely populated areas.
.-- (SNPPs employ passive safety systems, which rely on natural phenomena like gravity, convection, or evaporation to cool the reactor, reducing the risk of accidents)
-- (SNPPs have fewer components, making them easier to operate, maintain, and regulate).
-- (SNPPs produce less nuclear waste due to their smaller size and higher fuel efficiency.))

Also SNPPs require lower upfront investments compared to large NPPs, making them more attractive ityadi. Also they can be deployed in remote or rulal areas..

OTOH - Larger NPPs benefit from economies of scale, making them more cost-effective in terms of electricity generation.
---
India's Approach - as I look at it:
India is exploring both large and small NPPs Eg:
- It has approved the construction of 10 new PHWRs ( each with a capacity of 700 MW.)
- Developed the Ahvaz-1, a 100 MW SNPP design, with plans for deployment in the near future.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Vayutuvan »

One more question. Are SNPPs better for starting Th cycle reactors? Can current designs of Th cycle reactors be made as modular reactors? I am assuming that all the current modular reactors are fueled by U.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Vayutuvan wrote: 31 Jul 2024 01:40 One more question. Are SNPPs better for starting Th cycle reactors? Can current designs of Th cycle reactors be made as modular reactors? I am assuming that all the current modular reactors are fueled by U.
Speaking as a physicist
(Basics are correct - but more than physics eg Engineering/Economics/Politics need to be considered ):

SNPPs can be suitable for initiating the Thorium ]cycle, as they offer a compact, scalable design, and can operate at lower power levels, making them a good match for Th-fueled reactors.
IMO - Current Th cycle reactor designs can be adapted for modularity, but most existing modular reactor designs are indeed, as you say, fueled by U.
However, some concepts, like the:
- Integral Molten Salt Reactor (IMSR)
- Small Modular Reactor (SMR) designs
- Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor (LFTR)
are being explored for Th-fueled, modular types. (There may be more)

I Thinks, Modular Th cycle reactors could offer advantages in a 'Reduced waste production' and Improved safety and also (I will think) lower capital costs and better proliferation resistance.

Challenges: - significant technical, regulatory, and infrastructure hurdles need to be addressed before modular Th cycle reactors can be commercially deployed.
( Besides, I think countries like USA would not be that interested in Th design, R&D as they have enough U... and good U type designs already works/cost effective )

So .. while current designs are mostly U-fueled, there is potential for adapting Th cycle reactors to modular designs, offering promising benefits and opportunities for future development..
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by tandav »

Perhaps sea based floating nuclear reactors should be seriously considered. We could build them on massive oil rig type floating platform or in semisubmersible configuration capable of riding out storms etc
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by sanman »

Dr A K Mohanty talks about latest advances and plans for Indian nuclear program

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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Sharing:

India can achieve clean, affordable electricity and become net-zero by 2070 -- will need substantial nuclear power and renewable energy to do this per report prepared by the Indian government

Indian net-zero will need nuclear, report finds

Summary of the report and recommendations etc...:

The Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad (IIMA) has released a report, "Synchronizing energy transitions towards possible Net-Zero for India," which explores pathways for India to achieve net-zero carbon emissions by 2070. The report, launched by the Principal Scientific Adviser to the Government of India, examines four net-zero pathways and seven alternative scenarios for India's future energy requirements, emphasizing the need for a mix of power sources, including nuclear energy, to achieve decarbonization.
The report concludes that nuclear power generation is crucial for achieving net-zero emissions, requiring significant investments in research, development, and deployment. It recommends a "level playing field" for low-carbon technologies, innovative finance mechanisms, and life-cycle assessments for alternative energy systems. Additionally, it suggests commissioning uranium storage facilities, scaling up institutional arrangements, and exploring public-private partnerships to facilitate nuclear power generation. The report's findings aim to guide policy and technology decisions at the national level.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by pravula »

tandav wrote: 31 Jul 2024 09:45 Perhaps sea based floating nuclear reactors should be seriously considered. We could build them on massive oil rig type floating platform or in semisubmersible configuration capable of riding out storms etc
Why? If you are not gonna be moving them, this would be an order of magnitude more work. Salt, water, corrosion, etc etc.
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Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Amber G. »

Amber G. wrote: 30 Jul 2024 23:17 ^^^ Yes around 70% of India's electricity generation comes from coal ...and may be around 6% from Natural Gas..
But AFAIK ( some projections may be my guesses based on valid basis)..
That post is consistent ..with some of the latest reports... any way, posting it:
>>Bharat's installed power generation capacity has surged by nearly 80% over the past decade, now totaling 446,190 MW as of June 2024.

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