Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

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Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Narayan_L » 12 Apr 2002 02:39

From the BBC, some exciting and interesting news for archaeology and history buffs. For years, there has been a strong belief that a submerged, ancient city exists off the Mamallapuram coast. It appears that a recent expedition has confirmed that. Similarly, it is also believed that the spectacular port-city of the Cholas - Poompuhar, lies submerged off the coast of a tiny fishing village that bears the same name near Mayiladuthurai in the Thanjavur district of Tamil Nadu. (This is where the mighty Cauvery empties into the Bay of Bengal). Mamallapuram aka Mahabalipuram is of course world renowned for its sculptures, shore temple and rock-cut temples. All the monuments there including the majestic bas-relief, "Arjuna's Penance" - said to be the largest in the world, are considered a World Heritage site by UNESCO. I hope UNESCO provides more funds for the exploration of the "lost city".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1923000/1923794.stm

Any comments, speculation?

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Harsh » 12 Apr 2002 03:06

from article:
Scientists now want to explore the possibility that the city was submerged following the last Ice Age.

If this proves correct, it would date the discovery at more than 5,000 years old.
Wouldn't that date set the city at around the same time as the earliest Saraswati River cities farther north?

If true, the significance of these submerged ruins would be very great, indeed. It may also lend more credence to the theory that the Mahabharat War took place c. 3100 BCE?

-Harshavardhan
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A webmaster of:
The 1962 Sino-Indian War Website.
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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby krsai » 12 Apr 2002 03:21

from the bbc link:

"But here in Mahabalipuram we have proved the myths right and the academics wrong."

:roll:

--

On the similar lines, I guess there was some sea diving done in Gujarat to unearth lost "krishna kingdom".. true?

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Gerard » 12 Apr 2002 04:32

Add this report to the previous find of a city on the west coast
Lost city 'could rewrite history'

and this
'Earliest writing' found

and you have some truly mind blowing rewriting of history.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby ramana » 12 Apr 2002 04:34

Narayan What myth are they talking about?

Sai the same BBC page has this link: Lost city 'could rewrite history'

And this one: http://www.india-atlantis.org/

Harsh I put your idea about the Mahabharat War and the ref. to Arjuna's penance together and blows the mind away. All this AIT is hogwash.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Gerard » 12 Apr 2002 04:39

The "swallowed it up entirely in a single day" suggests an earthquake rather than flooding from rising sea levels.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby krsai » 12 Apr 2002 04:55

Gerard, me thinking:

a sudden losening of earth done with a prolonged sea erosion.. the structure weight made it sudden perhaps.. but the area of submerge is quite large and that makes the support for flooding.

so a little relativity concept needs to be applied. From the sea's point of view, it ate the land and from the land point of view, it slid.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Gerard » 12 Apr 2002 05:00

Interesting idea.

One other possibility is that the "sudden flood" was made up long afterwards by folk who were aware of the submerged city and attempted to explain it.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby krsai » 12 Apr 2002 05:02

for ramana:

http://www.britannicaindia.com/eb/spotdisplay.asp?spotid=462&cid=13

Gerard, well going by the link info that said myth overtook science, lets say myth is more true, and science is more false. Then let see how things goes.. as narayan says, lets wait. till then we can however predicts things for fun

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby svinayak » 12 Apr 2002 05:06

How long ago? When were these strange, man-made structures above sea level?
After 1993, the structures lapsed back into obscurity because the NIO had insufficient funds for further investigation. But in February 2000, Graham Hancock, a best-selling author internationally renowned for his unorthodox ideas about the origins of civilization, visited South India and contacted the NIO about their findings.

For the past three years Hancock had been investigating submerged ruins around the world as part of his project Underworld (to be released soon as a book and TV series), and this research led him to suspect that the 75ft depth of the submerged ruins was strongly indicative of great antiquity. Sea levels had risen globally by around 400ft after 17,000 years ago as the great swollen polar ice caps melted. But the meltdown was virtually complete by 7,000 years ago, meaning that the Poompuhar structures were very probably a lot older than that.

Hancock's suspicion was soon confirmed by geologist Glenn Milne at the University of Durham, who computed that a 75 ft sea-level rise in this tectonically-stable part of the world would probably have taken around 11,000 years. This put the date of the submerged structures all the way back to the end of the last Ice Age, thousands of years before any society capable of building such large, sturdy stone architecture is thought have arisen in India. The implications were shocking the structures could be evidence of a lost Indian civilization of the Ice Age, just as described in the ancient Indian traditions. ( probably in Tamil Sangam)

Within the last year, two submerged cities were discovered in the Gulf of Cambay in northern India, complete with human remains as well as evidence of writing and pottery. Carbon-dating has suggested that the cities, which together cover an area almost the size of Manhattan, are at least 9,500 years old. The Cambay and Poompuhar discoveries are both reported in depth for the first time in Underworld. They signal an exciting new era in Indian archaeology, in which the investigation of submerged ruins will play a key role. How do the Poompuhar finds compare with those in Cambay? Are they both parts of the same lost civilization? Or do they perhaps represent two separate Ice Age cultures, one based in the north and the other in south of the sub-continent? Only further exploration, involving divers, sonar scans and the recovery and analysis of artifacts can provide the answers.

Anybody know about Tamil Sangam literature. It has similar information about a lost civilization connecting TN coast, Sri Lanka and the Indonasia. It seems this is parallel to the lost atlatis off the coast of France and Spain.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby James Bund » 12 Apr 2002 05:12

The sudden flood business may have been a tsunami that obliterated the population.

Interesting stuff but the dating needs utmost care.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby svinayak » 12 Apr 2002 05:16

Between 17,000 years ago and 7000 years ago, at the end of the last Ice Age, terrible things happened to the world our ancestors lived in. Great ice caps over northern Europe and north America melted down, huge floods ripped across the earth, sea-level rose by more than 100 metres, and about 25 million square kilometres of formerly habitable lands were swallowed up by the waves.

But now let's remember as well that along continental margins and around islands across the world an area bigger than the Unites States of America was inundated at the end of the Ice Age: 3 million square kilometres (an area the size of India) was submerged around Greater Australia alone; another 3 million square kilometres went under around South-East Asia; the Florida, Yucatan and Grand Bahama Banks were fully-exposed off the Gulf of Mexico; huge areas of land were swallowed up in the Mediterranean, the Black Sea, the North Sea and the Atlantic, etc, etc, etc - the list really does goes on and on.

In my view the possibility of a serious "black hole" in scientific knowledge about recent prehistory is plausible, reasonable and worthy of consideration. I therefore propose that the conclusions of modern archaeology regarding the origins and early evolution of human civilisation should be treated as provisional until a comprehensive, global, marine-archaeological survey of continental shelves down to depths of at least 120 metres has been undertaken.

Graham Hancock

http://www.grahamhancock.com/intro.php

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Narayan_L » 12 Apr 2002 05:20

k r sai:

There is adequate evidence of sea and wind erosion in Mamallapuram. You can see it even today. The fabled shore temple's profile has been greatly altered by the saline air and the erosion that has happened over more than a thousand years. Villagers of Mamallapuram will tell you without any prompting that more temples such as the Shore temple existed and were subsumed by the sea. There is also a tale of a massive light-house. Mamallapuram is a fascinating place full of legend. I encourage one and all to check it out. One of the best denizens of Mamallapuram from whom you can learn a lot about its mysteries, is the affable and knowledgeable owner of the "Mamalla Bhavan" - a fine but simple veg. restaurant in town. If you go there, look him up. :)

Ramana>>"Harsh I put your idea about the Mahabharat War and the ref. to Arjuna's penance together and blows the mind away."

Once again, it is easy to get carried away. Mamallapuram - the port of the Pallavas, if I am not mistaken thrived from perhaps 600 AD to 800 AD. Will check that. While most Pallavas such as Narasimha Varma were Vaishnavites, the great Pallava emperor, Mahendra Varma was a Jain. I am not sure if a definite connection between "Arjuna's Penance" and the excavations can be established with the info available so far. Then there is also the expedition of the Chalukyas led by Pulikesin II during Mahendra Varma, which sacked and torched a good portion of Mamallapuram. Narasimha Varma returned the favor by leveling the Chalukyan capital Vatapi, earning the title "Vatapi Kondaan".

The study will no doubt be a complex one. Detailed analysis will have to be done on the monuments around Mamallapuram, the temples of Kanchi, rocks edicts and inscriptions in Northern TN and Southern AP, the Jain cave temples of Mamandur and Mahendravadi, and their rock inscriptions and much much more. A lot of evidence from the period also exists in the Madras Govt Museum - more sculptures, edicts, literature of the period, etc. Very, very exciting stuff.

Let us be excited first that an important part of our history has been unearthed. The political appropriations can come later. Let us approach this subject with an open mind. What if it revealed the existence of an ancient southern civilization independent of IVC? Would that sadden several? Let us be mature and let the work go on. Congratulations to the team of divers and historians.


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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby James Bund » 12 Apr 2002 05:36

"Would that sadden several?"

Narayan_ L, you write well but the gratuitous "victim" persona is wearing a bit thin.Given the putatative antiquity of the site in Cambay,I suppose the same question can be posed of you. I have a little doubt of your stand.

As a well-meaning point, there is little as irksome as needing to prove one's objective credentials. And yes I am a Panjabi Brahmin but I would much rather conserve my talents to do internet battle with my Pakistani co-ethnics.Somehow, I believe you will find that statement suspect.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Narayan_L » 12 Apr 2002 05:41

James Bund>>"Given the putatative antiquity of the site in Cambay,I suppose the same question can be posed of you. I have a little doubt of your stand."

Mr. Bund:

Try me! I am not pre-disposed to one position or the other. I didn't fire the first shot :) . What do you make of Ramana's jab?

As for "victimhood", there are much, much eminent posters who thrive solely on that.

Let us follow the developments in earnest, and forget the sniping. Shall we? :)

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Kuttan » 12 Apr 2002 08:19

Scientists now want to explore the possibility that the city was submerged following the last Ice Age. If this proves correct, it would date the discovery at more than 5,000 years old.
Excuse me, but I didn't know that the last Ice Age was just 5000 years ago. My impression was that the Ice Age was a few hundreds of thousands of years ago. If this keeps up, they will next be finding the offices of the Chief Dinosaurs in Mohenjodaro.

The basis for the Ice Age claim appears to go like this:

"City found under Sea. Therefore Sea must have risen in level. Therefore it must have been due to effect of Sun on Ice Cream Age. City must fit stupid "historical" model - so it must be no more than 7000 years ago. Therefore Ice Cream Age ended 7000 years ago. "

What if:

1. This was a city of undersea-dwellers?
2. It was set up in 1996?
3. The sea level rose in the 15th century due to all those zillions of British, Spanish and Portuguese junks sinking?
4. The city has been there since the days when Gondwana broke up and India sailed north and slammed into the southern coast of Tibet and pushed up out of the ocean - increasing the ocean levels?
5. Parasuram got mad at the rude service he got at the chariot rental place in this city, and threw his axe - and the ocean came up and swallowed the city?

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby ramana » 12 Apr 2002 08:49

Narayan what are you taking offense for? I really thought you might know the myth they are talking about. Sorry for making that assumption. Yes I am astounded that they found remains from such antiquity. If this period is ture I think that there was no a AIT but all of us are one large family. I didnt know you see some bias in my silly inquiry. Wow and you quoted some proverb about clay horse and rivers. Well if you bake the clay then you can still cross the river without melting.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Gerard » 12 Apr 2002 08:55

Last ice age was about 18 000 years ago

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ice/resources.html

"global meltwater pulse 1A"
70 ft rise in sea level 14,200 years ago
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/antarctic-02i.html

some historical references to these structures
(much later than end of last ice age)
http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=86739&t=86718

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby vkrishna » 12 Apr 2002 09:09

This is really nice, first Dwaraka off the Gujarat coast and now this - looks like the many gaps in our history are getting closer to being filled a little more. I just hope this is also not used for political agendas.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Gerard » 12 Apr 2002 09:23

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_563330.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery.archaeology

Divers find ruins of mythical city off India

Explorers believe they have discovered remains of a mythical city off the coast of India.

According to legend it was swallowed up by the sea about 2,000 years ago.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Narayan_L » 12 Apr 2002 09:27

Ramana:

My sincere apologies. It was me who jumped the gun and assumed that you took a jab at me. Not very good. I will remove that post ASAP. Please forget the proverb as well, I will explain it some other day. Sorry again!

Now to the "myth" part. I have visited Mamallapuram several times over my life, and Poompuhar as well. Every time I have been there, I have always heard extraordinary "stories" and "legends" from locals and fishermen. One fisherman in Poompuhar told me that strange things would wash up on the shore - ancient coins that sort of thing, and their nets would get caught in unknown, submerged stuff. The common theme was always, remnants of these great cities are somewhere in the deep. Most tourists would often chuckle at these stories, and make inane comments such as "Is Madhavi (of Cilapathikaram fame whose hometown was Poompuhar) out there as well as a mermaid", etc, etc. Bigwigs in the ASI and some senior people (mostly political appointees) in the Hindu Religious Charities and Endowments Ministry that oversee temples in TN treated such things with a bit of disdain.

Read the third link (I think) of Acharya's post. The exploratory dives took place only a few hundred yards from the shore temple. All of Mamallapuram will tell you that there is a whole city submerged out there. The stories about the deluge, etc - who knows they might be true, but no one took them seriously.

The question is why they had to wait this long. Why was the National Institute of Oceanography not proactive in investigating this? No, pseudo-secularism is not the answer. Perhaps it is just plain apathy, plus the fact that there are a thousand more sites out there but very little resources.

Which is why along with Cambay, this and Poompuhar are very exciting finds. Another thing, I remember about Poompuhar which I thought was strange. The coast there is so shallow, one can walk waist deep into the Bay of Bengal for almost a km!

Interesting stuff no doubt!

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Primus » 12 Apr 2002 10:03

Gentlemen!

I for one find this extremely exciting, regardless of which side of the Vindhyas "civilization" first sprouted. As one who belongs to the North but grew up mostly in the South, I have witnessed these "Chapathi-Idli" battles ad-nauseum and don't care for them anymore. Let us pride ourselves in the knowledge that what we Indians have been talking about for ever is finally being substantiated - namely, that the Indian culture is truly the oldest and greatest.

BTW, how would you respond to the Paki claims of superiority based on the Harappa civilization being "Pakistani" in essence, as it was discovered on Paki land?

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Harsh » 12 Apr 2002 10:52

BTW, how would you respond to the Paki claims of superiority based on the Harappa civilization being "Pakistani" in essence, as it was discovered on Paki
Hell, I find the fact that they named their missile after a sadistic madman who butchered thousands of of Pakistani ancestors amusing enough.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby James Bund » 12 Apr 2002 11:24

If it is more than 55 yrs old it ain't Pakistani-end of discussion.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby ramana » 12 Apr 2002 11:27

Thanks Narayan. I too have visited Mahabalpuram and took my whole family there last time. My original post did refer to Ilangovan's Slippadiakaram but I deleted that part for I wanted to hear your version. What I rememeber is Kannagi flings the anklet and the kingdom of the errant king gets destroyed. Maybe Illangovan was refering to this long forgotten event in his epic.

BTW, I want to tell one and all - I am an Aryan, I am a Dravidian, I am a Brahmin, I am a Shudra, I am a tribal, I am a Harijan. I am a Hindu, I am a Muslim, I am a Christian, a Jain and a Buddhist too. Above all I am an Indian-American(formerly an Indian). I take pride in everything Indian from the Kanyakumari( which I visited) to the Northern most point and the Forests of North east to the Suleiman mountains.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Kaushal » 12 Apr 2002 11:29

First of all this is a great archaeological find and certainly is deserving of a thread (those who know me will not be surprised at my delight) not because it disproves AIT (which IMO is a cockamamie theory without any basis whatsoever) but because we know so little archaeologically about the antiquity of India. India has the largest extant literature in the ancient world (by far , the M'Bharata eclipses the Illiad and the Odyssey several times over in size and in the grand sweep of events it covers and I have read quite a bit of Edith hamilton's work on greek Mythology) but there is a paucity of archaeological finds. This is because much of it dating to the last millenium was destroyed but much more lies buried underneath the several layers of cities like Delhi and much digging needs to be done.

As for taking initiative the ASI has done a pretty good job especially along the Saraswati and discovered a whole slew of sites along the dried up river bed of the saraswati (Dholavira, Kalibangan,Lothal and the submerged city of Dwaraka (see the lost city of Dwaraka by SR Rao, Aditya Prakashan, 1999). For a country that does not have a decent power supply this is not bad. And India is one of the leading countries in the field of Oceanographic Archaeology - if we are not doing enough here , the fact of the matter is that most of the world is doing even less.

If these submerged cities are found to date back to the receding of the ice age ( a typical half cycle is 10,000 years) then it confirms that there was a sophisticated urban civilization all across the subcontinent and not just in the Saraswati-Sindhu Valley.

However many questions need to be answered and not just about dating. Did they have a script , if so can it be deciphered and is it the ancestor of Brahmi the older of the two major script systems used in India.

Knowing the past is not simply a case of knowing the dates of battles and when Kings were born and died, but something more important in the spiritual field - the value system inherited by a nation. India today is a wounded civilization disconnected from her past and her value system ,without a compass to give her direction. We have the great epics but large numbers in India and abroad tend to dismiss them as myths. In one of the internet sites, one Indian went so far as to say that Rama was a mythological figure and did not really exist. If he was a myth , he sure is an enduring one, unlike the Norse Gods or the Gods of the greco-Minean civilization.

Well, I hope this is the start of many more finds and more importantly enough aspiring Indians will now take up this rewarding field instead of going for familiar professions like Engineering and Medicine or Business.

Kaushal

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Kuttan » 12 Apr 2002 22:02

The coast there is so shallow, one can walk waist deep into the Bay of Bengal for almost a km!
Two questions come to mind re: someone tossing her anklet in rage, and the city getting swallowed up by the ocean:

1) I wonder how difficult it would be to build a dike 1 km out, drain the intervening land and excavate it. True, every year when the cyclones come, the dike will take a beating and the place may get flooded, but the flooding itself should not be a big problem - there are temples in Kerala, for example, which get flooded every year during the monsoon.

Our of respect for this thread I'll refrain from comments on who I think should be sent to stick their fingers in the dikes :)

Just the tourist revenue for 10 years should easily pay for the project cost.

2) My recollection of visiting M'puram is still pretty clear.

This was a carefully-planned trip, where a group of us rode bicycles through the night going there. Full-moon night in summer when rain was not a possibility. This made lights etc. quite superfluous in our planning.

Unfortunately, there was a power failure during the first phase of the trip, which was on the rutted & dung-laden village roads near Chennai. Fortunately, this should not have affected the mission, in view of said full moon. Unfortunately, there was a total eclipse of the moon right around that time, which was not taken into account by our mission planners - which made this part of the trip rather more exciting than it should have been. :(

Anyway, the moon did come out after an hour or so and boy! was it glorious!! My point is that much of the route from Chennai to M'puram is a coastal highway, maybe 100 to 250 feet or more above sea level - the land drops sharply towards the beach. Absolutely spectacular, under the full moon with no other lights of any sort around, especially if you are too poor and too stupid to realize that the highway is a favored haunt of robbers, murderers etc. Enough to make you forget that you are gasping your way there on a 1-gear bicycle, and the return trip is expected to be made in the afternoon.

Now I can understand a rise in sea-level of a few feet due to the end of the Ice Cream Age. But here's my difficulty: If you were smart enough to build all these fine temples, would you be silly enough to build them 2 feet above sea-level, when just a kilometer away is this cliff and plateau 300 feet above, with an unbeatable view, and security from tidal waves? I find this extremely hard to believe.

Which leaves me with the theory of a devastating earthquake.

Heaven spare me from the wrath of any woman who wears anklets heavy enough to cause that kind of earth movement when thrown. Can you imagine what must have happened when she stomped her feet and said: Hhmmmmmmppphhhhhh!! ???? :eek:

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Kaushal » 12 Apr 2002 22:46

narayanan, people build their homes right next to the sea shore all along the coast of California, without thinking of the receding of the ice age. I am afraid the temple builders of Mahabalipuram were not the only ones caught by surprise at the onset of the melting of the ice age. If we plan a day ahead nowadays , there is a whole industry with organizers to help us do that. To think 5000 or 10,000 years ahead gives too much credence to the foresightedness of the human species, IMHO.

Kaushal

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Johann » 12 Apr 2002 23:14

Dont just thank ASI, thank ISRO. The availability of affordable multispectral remote sensing imagery from has changed the whole game of locating sites. I've met several people from ISRO who are extremely proud of the boost to archeology and by extension the search for the sub-continents past

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby krsai » 12 Apr 2002 23:35

some notes:

From Gerard's annanova link:
Fragments of pottery, carved wood, bone and beads have been dated to more than 9,000 years old.

--this proves Ramana's point that baked clay can survive 9000 years or more.. ;)

Mr Hancock believes the discovery supports his theory that complex civilisations existed in the Ice Age but were wiped out when the ice melted, submerging 15 million square miles of land

narayanan:
I wonder how difficult it would be to build a dike 1 km out, drain the intervening land and excavate it.
--Per hancock, it is 15 million sq miles of land. A 1 km dike might destroy may an even more interesting find yet to come.

PradeepB:
From the link: http://www.searchforlight.org/lotushall/An%20_approach_to_indian_history-Kittu/51.htm
In other words, what is loosely called Hinduism would not be what it is without the South. It should now be crystal clear that there was nothing called a “separate, pre-Aryan or secular” Dravidian culture. There is no evidence to show it. The simple reality is that every region of India has developed according to its own genius, creating in its own bent, all the while remaining faithful to the central Indian spirit.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Umrao » 13 Apr 2002 00:27

"Heaven spare me from the wrath of any woman who wears anklets heavy enough to cause that kind of earth movement when thrown. Can you imagine what must have happened when she stomped her feet and said: Hhmmmmmmppphhhhhh!! ????"

Trampling of the earth by a irate woman who wore the haevy anklet caused the submersion of such a beautiful city would be the final verdict of the archeologists, just you wait and see.

No wonder civilizations from times unknown have worshiped (and continue to worship Para sakthi) amaa!!

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby A_Gupta » 13 Apr 2002 01:09

1. Kutch conditions were not suitable for diving and the claimed submerged habitations were only explored by sonar. I think the sonar folks should survey the M'puram offshore site which is also accessible by divers, to validate their methods.

2. From the
Scientific American :

Anderson and his co-workers have garnered evidence from such places as Galveston Bay in the Gulf of Mexico, where sediment cores and seismic soundings reveal how that estuary has responded to rising sea level since the last ice age. A steady increase in sea level would have caused the underwater environments that characterize different parts of the estuary to move gradually landward.

But the geologic record from Galveston Bay, Anderson points out, shows "very dramatic" features that indicate sudden flooding of the ancient strand.

The most recent episode of sudden sea-level rise that Anderson discerns occurred about 2000 B.C., when global climate was presumably similar to present conditions. His work indicates that sea level may have jumped considerably in just a few centuries. But so far Anderson has been unable to establish just how large a rise actually occurred.

krsai
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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby krsai » 13 Apr 2002 01:48

Johnji,

Please do not mistake my comment.. In TN, if you are an actor or better still actress [current amma] will be worshiped and temples built for them.

Another 1000 years, Jayalalitha will be part of south indian vedic-extension script.

:p

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby GGanesh » 13 Apr 2002 02:04

Was'nt Mahabali another name for Ravana? Apologies, in advance, if mistaken.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Umrao » 13 Apr 2002 02:40

maha bali is the Bali Chakravarthi whom vamana sent underground and was king of Kerala, IIRC.

In any case I see great prospect of hydro carbon wealth underneath in the vicinity!!

Hope we join OPEC!!

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby svinayak » 13 Apr 2002 03:58


The most recent episode of sudden sea-level rise that Anderson discerns occurred about 2000 B.C., when global climate was presumably similar to present conditions. His work indicates that sea level may have jumped considerably in just a few centuries. But so far Anderson has been unable to establish just how large a rise actually occurred.

NS Rajaram from ICHR has a theory that around 2500-2000 BC the earth was struck by a meteor which initiated the melting of the ICE and also caused large scale flooding over large areas. Proving this will be very difficult.

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Kuttan » 13 Apr 2002 04:15

Kaushal:

Pursuing the catastrope vs. melting ice debate:

I don't see evidence that the climate of the TamilNadu coast has changed drastically in the past few thousand years. IOW, the monsoons were there. Which means that the east coast was susceptible to annual cyclonic storms. Anyone who has seen one of those would not build temples or cities on the beach. In old times, people depended on historical legends - so there must have been plenty of wisdom there telling them to build a safe distance from the ocean.

The other aspect is this business of essentially intact structures lying under the sea. Does this happen without catastrophe? If there is gradual erosion, what do people do? Abandon an entire city? Or pick up the stones and take them to higher ground?

So something terrible must have happened - like the earth sinking, or a giant cyclone that wiped out most people, causing survivors to leave the drowned city and never come back. Or maybe it was time to return to the Andromeda Galaxy, so they just melted a few icebergs too cover up all the evidence of their having been here, and zoomed off.

On the other hand, I must say that Alien Infusion Theory is finally getting the kind of proof that even the blindest of cynics cannot deny. An entire civilization - probably flourishing 30,000 years ago, when the beach was out at the Andamans !!

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby krsai » 13 Apr 2002 05:49

Q: What is the sea depth along the coast regions of south india-
Is there satellite images available on the net / links that we can see.

==++
I found this link: http://koubas.sate.restec.or.jp/LatLong_Area_Query.html

But someone knows the lat/long details?
other links?

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Re: Lost City found off the Mahabalipuram coast

Postby Sundareswara » 13 Apr 2002 15:28

I have read Graham Hancock's book "Fingerprints of the Gods" and much of his evidence is compelling, at least to a layman (when it comes to the study of navigation and geography) like myself.

He points to the existence of the Pire Reis (sp?) maps depicting the landmass of Antarctica pre-ice age! The maps belonged to one Admiral Pire Reis of the Spanish Imperial fleet sometime in the 1500's. He (Admiral Reis) says that he procured his map from "more ancient sources" from the library at Constantinople, which in turn were copies from Alexandria. In the late 1970s, the USAF did an aerial study of Antarctica, cross-referenced them with satellite images, and determined that the Pire Reis maps describe Antarctica BEFORE THE ADVENT OF THE LAST ICE AGE, to a very high level of accuracy.

This last fact assumes great significance in the context of the European "discovery" of Antarctica in 1887 - indeed proving it to be a re-discovery.

Hancock's argument therefore proceeds along the lines of:

1) Before the Ice Age, Antarctica was inhabited or people knew it sufficiently well to be able to chart it.

2) Implies that navigation, cartographical tools and techniques were of a high standard and that this knowledge was lost, and then re-discovered.

3) This calls for a review of ancient history.

Coupled with this discovery, the Indian theory of "yugas" and the happenings in each does not seem too mythical, anymore. There is a danger, as Narayan_L points out, of getting carried away. There is also the danger of not taking it seriously enough and dismissing one type of evidence due . Obviously, we still have a long way to go before reaching any conclusions. In the meanwhile, all history can only be deemed "provisional" and the holes in the argument must continue to be discussed/taught. It is a never ending journey...

Br,
S.


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