Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

[Pratyush]

So what exactly is the newer system deployed against India that led to the IA asking for a 55 tonne tank with 4 crew members plus an autoloader along with the armor specs of much heavier tanks?

https://youtu.be/hdAVdINSHNc?si=uHdbGh_a8s8YKW2a

The PLA is developing a new MBT that is supposed to be a world beater.

In addition the threats from a modern battlefield require active protection systems along with the ability to bring down small UAVs.

IMO, the last few RFI for FRCV have been quite forward looking and if the Indian Army doesn't make a dog's breakfast of it. It will will result in an extremely capable system and leading edge system.

PS: i just cannot get the you tube code to work after the forum software update.

[srai]

Indian military RFI have been known to suffer from “brochuritis”

[Pratyush]

Indian military RFI have been known to suffer from “brochuritis”

Not the last 2 that I have seen.

The German Kf51 and the Abrams X seem tailor made as per the Indian RFI and not the other way round.

That's not the problem for me. The problem is the absence of project management capabilities and the temperament to develop systems in the country.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/FWD_Publishing/status/176 ... 44857?s=20 ---> The rather good looking Arjun MBT from India. Photographs of it during trials follow. 1/3



https://x.com/FWD_Publishing/status/176 ... 52744?s=20 ---> Step climbing and trench/gap crossing. 2/3





https://x.com/FWD_Publishing/status/176 ... 47005?s=20 ---> Sinusoidal test track, medium (1.5 m) deep fording tank, and on the inspection ramp. 3/3

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/FWD_Publishing/status/176 ... 60644?s=20 ---> Factory shots of Arjun MBT during assembly showing the arrangement and thickness of the mantlet armour assembly. 11 hulls are lined up awaiting power packs and 13 incomplete turrets.

[Aldonkar]

These pictures are the first I have seen for a long time without the "Mine plough" attachment. This gives the Arjun a somewhat comical look. None of the competitors are with shown with this attachment. Is this part of the IA campaign to malign the Arjun?

[Pratyush]

Not exactly.

Purely from a war fighting POV, it's important for MBTs to have the ability to clear a path for themselves on the battlefield. Without being dependent on other assets. That in turn makes the mine plough a useful kit to attach on every tank.

Having said that, what was really really, really, really, really,........ really, infuriating was the inability to see the same logic for the 4000 odd tin cans in service with the force.

For over 15 long years, the Indian army insisted that Arjun must have this attachment. While the tin cans happily served without them. Until about 1500 kits were ordered to be painted in India by BEML after being imported from a UK based company. Back in 2019 or 20.

[srai]

The pictures look to be decades old.

Production had stopped since 2012.

[Jay]

The pictures look to be decades old.

Production had stopped since 2012.

You are correct sir. I remember seeing most of these pics before 2010 in DRDO newsletters. I would say some of these pics go as far back as 2005 and prior.

[ashishvikas]

DRDO-Mahindra CBRN Wheeled vs Stryker vs Piranha 3 vs Fuchs 2

https://twitter.com/Tej_Intel/status/17 ... du8Uw&s=19

[srai]

^^^
Don’t be surprised if the IA says it must be < 20t

[Pratyush]

Or be capable of operating at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

[Manish_P]

DRDO-Mahindra CBRN Wheeled vs Stryker vs Piranha 3 vs Fuchs 2

..

Any figures for the dimensions (LxWxH)?

The 3 foreign ones are pretty even with barely few cms difference.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1767918 ... 43612?s=20 ---> MoD signs IDDM contract with Armoured Vehicles Nigam Limited (AVNL) for upgrading 693 BMP-2 to BMP-2M, includes Night Enablement, Gunner Main Sight, Commander Panoramic Sight & Fire Control System (FCS) with Automatic Target Tracker. AVNL will use tech developed by DRDO & BEL.

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1768067 ... 12972?s=20 ---> According to @AVANI_PR: Upgrade features enhanced firepower, night-enabled FCS, automatic target tracking, next-gen missile firing capabilities, etc. "Developed through an in-house R&D project, these advancements have undergone rigorous performance evaluation and field trials."

[Pratyush]

The Indian defence analysis is reporting that the indigenous 1500 hp engine is being tested. Published on 20 March 2024.

[Rakesh]

The Indian defence analysis is reporting that the indigenous 1500 hp engine is being tested. Published on 20 March 2024.

I edited your post above. Please click the edit button on your post to see how youtube links are posted. Thank You.

https://x.com/manupubby/status/1770414577815289993?s=20 ---> Significant Milestone: Maiden test-firing of India’s first indigenous 1500 HP engine for Main Battle Tanks at BEML Mysuru. Designed for high altitudes, sub-zero temp and desert environments. Project slated for completion by mid-2025, would power Arjun as well as future tanks.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1769958021277552732?s=20 ----> Feel good moment: AVNL has indigenised 98% of T-72 MBT and nearly 88% of T-90 MBT. All the engine components are indigenised successfully. And the best part is 50% of components /systems is supplied by the MSMEs.

==================================================================

https://x.com/neeraj_rajput/status/1770 ... 89989?s=20 ---> Maiden test-firing of India’s first indigenously-made 1,500 horsepower engine for Main Battle Tanks (MBT) at BEML’s Engine division in Mysuru complex took place today in presence of Defence Secretary Giridhar Aramane.

https://x.com/sneheshphilip/status/1770 ... 60638?s=20 ---> India’s first indigenously-made 1500 Horsepower (HP) engine for Main Battle Tanks at BEML’s Engine division in Mysuru complex on March 20th. The project is slated for completion by mid-2025. The project, initiated in August 2020. Will power the Arjun Mk1As.

[Pratyush]

https://idrw.org/drdo-prepares-for-fmbt ... e-horizon/

IDRW is reporting that DRDO is developing a 125 mm smooth bore for the FMBT.

[Manish_P]

https://idrw.org/drdo-prepares-for-fmbt ... e-horizon/

IDRW is reporting that DRDO is developing a 125 mm smooth bore for the FMBT.

Same caliber as the Armata.. smart

[Pratyush]

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 4369851788

Published on 13th may 2024.

Alpha defence is reporting the launch of T90 mk3 from HVF Avadi.

[Pratyush]

https://youtu.be/9UhKzEJkVOM?si=eCvruD-Lgpol3Qhl

A discription of the vehicle posted by the India defence analysis you tube channel.

[mody]

Digital ballistic computer, automatic target tracking and commanders panoramic sight. The three main upgrades of the T-90 MKIII tank. Now with indigenously manufactured engine and indigenous ammo, the T-90 MKIII will have close to 90% indigenous content. The Invar should get replaced by the DRDO developed CLGM missile.
Some kind of anti-drone/loitering munition systems should have also been added and effort should be made to upgrade the 1,000 HP engine to 1,100 to 1,200 HP rating.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 4369851788

Published on 13th may 2024.

Alpha defence is reporting the launch of T90 mk3 from HVF Avadi.

Article on the T-90 Mk3 from HVT Avadi....

Unveiling the T-90 Mark III
https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2024/ ... iii/?amp=1
13 May 2024

[ashthor]

Explained: All About The Upgrades The Newly Unveiled T-90 Bhishma Mk-III Tank Likely To Sport

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/explain ... y-to-sport

All of the upgrades mentioned above were available with the Arjun tanks. In fact, the commanders' sights, the ATT, and the DBC are all taken from Arjun (and modified for the T-90).

................

The army, it seems, has not learned from its mistakes even now. The Qualitative Requirements (QRs) of the Indian Army for the next-generation Future Ready Combat Vehicle look to be a repeat of the same Arjun fiasco.

[Manish_P]

...

Unveiling the T-90 Mark III
https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2024/ ... iii/?amp=1
13 May 2024

Looking at the Russian-Ukraine war, we need to develop quick assembly, field attach/detach mesh mounts to protect the top from mini/micro drones.

[srai]

^^^

Every tank needs to have an anti-drone EW jamming for soft kill as well as hard kill mechanisms (laser, gun and APS).

If can’t afford to, then have less tanks but have them well equipped.

[Manish_P]

^^^

Every tank needs to have an anti-drone EW jamming for soft kill as well as hard kill mechanisms (laser, gun and APS).

If can’t afford to, then have less tanks but have them well equipped

The anti-drone EWS system can be on a few tanks (or accompaning armored vehicles) within the unit. All tanks have the MMG by default. The APS will need to be integrated onto each tank.

[srai]

^^^
The whole system needs to act in unison with weapons “auto” aligned. Manually, not that easy for each individual to shoot down these drones. Sure, the system should be detachable and applied as per threat density.

How much cost should be allocated to safeguard a $4 million dollar MBT?

Similar question for ICV, other than costs how much to safeguard 8-10 troops on the battlefield?

[Pratyush]

The morale of the crew is more important than the money value of the tanks.

If the crew don't have the confidence that they can survive long enough to accomplish the assigned mission. Then they will fail.

Or find a way not to undertake the mission.

So a way has to be found for the future battle field. Where the tanks have both active and passive protection systems needed to safeguard the crews.

[srai]

+1 for lives and morale of troops!

Often, it seems decisions are instead based on “penny-pinching” attitudes on small things that do matter.

[Prem Kumar]

The good news is that APS can double up against RPGs/ATGMs & Loitering munitions. It has become a must-have now. Earlier, in an open field, an APS was not that critical (was needed only for fighting in congested spaces where a thread could emerge from a short distance unexpectedly)

With loitering munitions, that threat profile can appear anywhere at anytime

But APS can defeat only proximate threats (like a CIWS). DEWs/Jammers are for neutralizing at stand-off distances and providing protection to an entire column of tanks. So, while each tank needs an APS, DEWs/Jammers can be installed on relatively fewer tanks (area protection)

There are interesting design challenges though: while an APS against an ATGM/RPG can detect threats that are moving at a steady speed, detecting loitering munitions that can hover, rapidly change direction, are smaller etc present a different type of challenge. Plus the system has to eliminate false-positives. We dont want the APS to think that a nearby crouching infantry-man or his backpack as a threat!

Eventually, all tanks will carry all of these. Hope provisions for all these are already made in the FMBT design

For now, if we come up with a bolt-on APS, the domestic & exports markets are huge!

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1791001707272695973 ---> Indian Army sets up one of world's highest tank repair facilities near China border in Ladakh.

[Pratyush]

Based on the Tractor ATGM carrier post from Rakesh in the Army thread. I have a thought .

The mine plough fitted on tanks are heavy and put pressure on the suspension of the tanks / armoured vehicles fitted with those.

Would it be possible, to build an APU powered mine clearing plough attached to a wheeled carriage. What I am thinking about is quite similar to an arty carriage. But is pushed by the tank / APC instead of being pulled by the vehicle. The on board APU of the carriage provides propulsion for pushing the plough.

[Manish_P]

Based on the Tractor ATGM carrier post from Rakesh in the Army thread. I have a thought .

The mine plough fitted on tanks are heavy and put pressure on the suspension of the tanks / armoured vehicles fitted with those.

Would it be possible, to build an APU powered mine clearing plough attached to a wheeled carriage. What I am thinking about is quite similar to an arty carriage. But is pushed by the tank / APC instead of being pulled by the vehicle. The on board APU of the carriage provides propulsion for pushing the plough.

Technically it is possible..

For eg here is a Mastiff MRAP with a Choker mine roller (expendable) system. This doesn't have an APU like you have in mind and it is an expendable (in plain speak one use before the big bang ) system... increase the length of the arm long enough to protect the tank/APC/IFV behind



Image from Wikimedia



Image from Army technology

[Pratyush]

^^^
Thanks, for the link.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/VinodDX9/status/1795107875905249748 ---> Rising anti-tank threats and possible solutions- of you are interested into a serious subject.

[VinodTK]

T-90 MK-III Tank: India Rolls Out 1st Batch Of ‘Bhishma’ MBTs Developed Under License Pact With Russia

[Prem Kumar]

Stryker is being hard-sold. Its absolutely disgusting! If we import Stryker, when we have far better homegrown alternatives, Atmanirbhar is a joke!

Fun Fact: Stryker does not have amphibious capability. WhaP does. Yet, our IA/DGMF is lowering the standards for an imported platform, to screw over an indigenous solution. Just like they did with the T-90s vs Arjun

DGMF needs a top-to-bottom rip & replace!

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1802535214205587852 ---> "The US is hard-selling the Strykers."

US offers to demonstrate mobility and firepower in high altitude regions in India.

MoD examining three phase plan:

1) Limited purchase under FMS
2) Joint production
3) Co-development of future variants, if Stryker meets requirements & ToT is substantial

[Pratyush]

I don't see it as a DGMF issue. It's the government of India paying tribute to the Americans and thinking that it buys acquiesce from the US towards India.

[Prem Kumar]

Possible.

Though, for the life of me, I cannot understand why. We have given enough baksheesh to them, in spite of their backstabbing. A Stryker deal is miniscule compared to what we paid for P-8Is, what we will pay for MQ-9Bs, etc

Plus, I can understand paying for armaments that we don't have an equivalent for: P-8I falls into this category. Stryker deal is a stinker, whichever way you look at it.