Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 30 June 2022

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1788479873243103521 ---> DMSRDE has made a landmark achievement by developing liquid ramjet fuel for an advanced air breathing engine. This fuel has been tested successfully at a ramjet test bed at DRDL on 08 May 2024. BPCL and Mineral Oil Corporation Pvt Ltd are industry partners in this development.

[Rakesh]

^^^

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1788501390354207217 ---> DRDO STAR!

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/DefenceMinIndia/status/17 ... 0873107604 ---> DRDO has successfully flight tested the RudraM-II Air-to-Surface missile from Su-30MKI platform of Indian Air Force, off the coast of Odisha. Raksha Mantri Shri @rajnathsingh congratulated DRDO, IAF and industry on the successful test flight of RudraM-II from Su-30 MK-I platform. He said that the successful test has consolidated the role of RudraM-II system as a force multiplier to the Indian Armed Forces.

[SSridhar]

Great news. Have been waiting for a while.

[drnayar]

https://x.com/DefenceMinIndia/status/17 ... 0873107604 ---> DRDO has successfully flight tested the RudraM-II Air-to-Surface missile from Su-30MKI platform of Indian Air Force, off the coast of Odisha. Raksha Mantri Shri @rajnathsingh congratulated DRDO, IAF and industry on the successful test flight of RudraM-II from Su-30 MK-I platform. He said that the successful test has consolidated the role of RudraM-II system as a force multiplier to the Indian Armed Forces.

It has a range of 300 km and has an additional Imaging Infrared (IIR) seeker in addition to AR seeker.. good combination to break any active electronic counter measures. Quite a potent combination ., the seeker can be programmed for target discrimination and evade decoys as well.

[Pratyush]

https://idrw.org/indias-first-privately ... -army-nod/

Published on 30th May 2024.

[ramana]

https://idrw.org/indias-first-privately ... -army-nod/

Published on 30th May 2024.

If its guided its a launcher or a missile.
In this case it's a launcher.


IDRW Raunak is an idiot who copies news and puts copyright.

[Pratyush]

https://www.financialexpress.com/busine ... y-2717865/

Exclusive: EEL of Solar Group to make munitions as Armed Forces strive to be future-ready

Published on October 18, 2022 11:11 IST

This article has the best discription of what Solar Industries is attempting to accomplish.

They are working on 2 distinct guided rockets Maheshvarastra 1 and Maheshvarastra 2.

One for ranges upto 150 km and the other for upto 300 kms. It's not clear, if both the rockets will share a common launcher vehicle.

[srai]

https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1753616927342178501


https://www.instagram.com/defencedecode/p/C5IZDF_x-EQ/



https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 1038957568


https://www.ssbcrack.com/2024/05/drdo-s ... tform.html

[ashishvikas]

India to carry out high altitude trials of indigenous short-range air defence missiles

https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 616175435/

[mody]

The VSHORAD missile that DRDO has developed is it going to be tripod and vehicle launched missile only or will there be a shoulder fired version as well?
The all up weight of the missile and launcher is stated as 40 Kgs, which is too high for a shoulder fired missile. Are they going to develop another shoulder fired variant with a lower weight and perhaps a shorter range? The current missile has a range of upto 7Kms, which is higher as compared to common shoulder fired missiles like the Igla-S and Stinger, which have a range of about 5Kms.

Even a tripod and light vehicle launched version is required as soon as possible, along with a shoulder fired man portable version.
A helicopter launched air to air version of the current missile should also be developed to replace the Mistral, currently being used with the Rudra and Prachand helicopters.

[Prem Kumar]

The missile has a dual-thrust rocket, which seems overkill for a MANPAD. It adds both weight and length to the missile

Hope the specs were agreed upon by the Armed Forces & DRDO, because this seems more of an RBS category than a Stinger/Igla

Frankly, it beats me why such a design choice was made, considering our experience & large need for Igla-class missiles. I hope the specs were based on a real need, rather than a way to continue importing Iglas citing weight as a reason

[neerajb]

^^ Dual thrust IMO is reference to the cold launch.

[Prem Kumar]

^^ No. Its a real dual-pulse rocket motor to increase range & Pk

[bala]

Riding on Rudram-2 success, DRDO gears up for more powerful missile test

Indian Defense Analysis YT
June 20, 2024

Provides an overview of Rudram missiles. Talks about Rudram-3 (hypersonic). Trials are slated to happen very soon. These missiles can take out enemy's SAM defense systems. Rudram-2 can take care of the neighbor to the west.

[Pratyush]

An article on Naval News encapsulating the different long ranges naval missiles. The NASM-MR is a candidate for a submarine torpedo tube launched anti-ship missile. It suggests that it's a Harpoon class weapon. In the P-75I thread, I had suggested that it was a 400 km ranged weapon. But I had confused it with a different missile also under development.

India Focuses On Long Range Naval Missiles Development
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... velopment/
Published on 14th December 2023

[Hriday]

Is it possible to target GPS jammers using anti-radiation missiles(ARM) with suitable modification in the seeker of ARM ?

[Pratyush]

Is it possible to target GPS jammers using anti-radiation missiles(ARM) with suitable modification in the seeker of ARM ?

Yes, it has been done in the past .

During one of the flair ups between USA and Iraq, in either late 1999 or early 2000. Iraqi military had moved into the Kurdish territory. This was done by Iraqi army at the invitation of one of the Kurdish factions.

The US and UK launched a 4 day military response to the Iraqi operation. IIRC, it was the first time the US was using GPS guided munitions. The Iraqis used GPS jammers to spoof the JDAM/JSOW, signals. Resulting in extremely poor performance of those systems.

The US figured it out and then they send wild weasel aircraft with HARM missiles tuned for specific frequencies.

Resulting in the destruction of the jammers.

[Hriday]

Is it possible to target GPS jammers using anti-radiation missiles(ARM) with suitable modification in the seeker of ARM ?

Yes, it has been done in the past .

The US figured it out and then they send wild weasel aircraft with HARM missiles tuned for specific frequencies.

Resulting in the destruction of the jammers.

Thanks for the information. But then why it was reported that due to Russian GPS jamming USA missiles become ineffective ? Even Haridas is saying that other non-GPS navigation methods are required. I assume that for radar and GPS jammer detection aircraft needs to fly high near the border and can be shot down with long-range SAM. Is that correct?

[Pratyush]

You are asking a set of excellent questions. That delve into the realm of actual tactics of EW.

Haridas is correct in terms requiring other forms of guidance. As a matter of fact, the US military has started to train in terms of dealing with GPS denied areas. Because GPS navigation and guidance has become so pervasive and the absolute number of ways it can be disrupted.


WRT, your question about needing to fly high in order to detect GPS jammers. The answer is quite ambiguous. Because a when you are jamming a GPS signal. You are emitting your own signal. A competent military will have the ability of detecting and targetting such jamming signals using ground based assets as well.

The fact that the Ukrainians are complaining about Russian jamming signals could mean one of two things.

1) The Ukrainians are telling the truth and that they lack the EW/ ECM competence to deal with Russians jamming.

2) They are capable of identifying the source of the signals. And are conducting a deception campaign against the Russians. So that the Russians don't do anything to counter the Ukrainian action. Within the Western way of war, their is ample evidence of them acting this way.

Because for reasons best known to NATO and Ukrainians. We have not seen the Ukrainians adapt HARM to a ground based launcher with a booster to lift it up to sufficient altitude. With targeting provided by ground based ECM systems.

We have seen the Israelis adapt the original US Anti radiation missiles to a ground based launcher for action post 1973 conflict. For the applications you have specified in your post above. This should have been eminently possible for Ukraine today. But we haven't seen it.

Added later.

An example of the Israelis ground launched Anti radiation launcher system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%8 ... lery_tanks

See under Kilshon (Trident) or Kachlilit section.

Kilshon (Trident) or Kachlilit – The Kilshon was developed to reduce the losses suffered by SAM suppression aircraft by launching anti-radiation missiles (ARMs) from the ground. The Kilshon was based on turretless hull of the Sherman M-51 on which an AGM-45 Shrike ARM launcher was mounted. To deliver the desired range, a specially modified AGM-45 with booster was used. Later a prototype was developed for use with the AGM-78 Standard ARM, but with the retirement of Shermans from IDF service the Keres (Hook) system was placed onto a heavy truck chassis for the finalized design instead.

Another link providing for the origins of both Kilshon and Kres system.
https://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons ... /Keres.htm

[fanne]

or if your GPS jamming is combination of low power ground based mobile equipment (which jams to few kilometers, the thumb rule is you can detect a signal at 2x the distance) and airborne low or high power equipment (for wider coverage and mobility drones, helis, planes) . So the anti-rad (against GPS to work), they have to come close (say if someone is jamming/spoofing will need lesser power- sending false signal, you can detect the encrypted signal say from 50 km away and send that out here, or send several GPS coordinates, that will confuse the GPS seeker). The GPS signals are not very strong as they reach earth, a low power emission on same frequency can easily overwhelm it. You can make a low power one (but sophisticated that does many things at the same time), the counter asset has to be near (say within few kilometer to process and target). Then if you constantly change that position, or hop the jamming from asset to asset or use say drones or helis that are constantly moving (would need a higher powered jammer to be away from battlefield), you have an effective GPS denial. Other would be to have satellite constantly over the area that sends counter GPS signal after being fed from some earth based source (The GPS signal for mil purposes are encrypted, assuming you can't break encryption, you can feed a previous recorded signal from a different area and confuse the original signal). I am sure there are 100 other different ways.

[Hriday]

Many thanks to Pratyush and fanne for the trouble to post the information. I see that the subject is far more complex and deep than I imagined.

[Pratyush]

https://idrw.org/indias-submarine-launc ... ompletion/

The Indian SLCM is nearing completion. The missile with a length of 5.6 meters is slightly smaller than the Kiel of the Kalvari class submarines at 5.8 meters.

A 12 cell VLS plug should be possible for the Kalvari class. While the torpedo tubes have the ability to launch this missile as well.

[JTull]

These SLCM are torpedo tube ones, hence the stated 500km range. VLS plug will allow bigger missile and booster dimensions, enhancing the range.

[srai]

Forget about VLS plugs on SSK. Not going to happen.

Just use the torpedo tubes.

[Yagnasri]

how much weight will it add and also how bad the entire design will become messed up.

[Prem Kumar]

The torpedo-launches SLCM is because Brahmos is unwilling/unable (technical reasons) to make a torpedo launched version. It can, at best, go into our future SSNs which will have VLS

SLCMs are a necessary & highly-welcome development. An anti-ship variant will also come, I am sure. Plus the ability to launch from torpedo tubes will increase its export potential

[Pratyush]

how much weight will it add and also how bad the entire design will become messed up.

I am not sure if you are asking about the weight of the VLS plug or about something else.

If the Navy is interested in VLS on kalvari. Then a 12 cell VLS plug should be possible under 100 tons. Plus the 300 tons of AIP.

[maitya]

The torpedo-launches SLCM is because Brahmos is unwilling/unable (technical reasons) to make a torpedo launched version. It can, at best, go into our future SSNs which will have VLS

SLCMs are a necessary & highly-welcome development. An anti-ship variant will also come, I am sure. Plus the ability to launch from torpedo tubes will increase its export potential

Brahmos-NG will be 533mm-torpedo launched 280-300Km ranged *supersonic* SLCM ... news reports suggest they will become available from 2025 (for testing) onwards. Not sure if that schedule still holds or not, though.
And that solution will be applicable for all SSKs that we have, including of course the Kalvaris as well.

And then there are different programs for torpedo-tube launched subsonic SLCMs as well, and obviously they will outrange Brahmos-NG.

VLS launched SLCMs, both supersonic and subsonic, will not bring in any additional benefits (in terms of range etc), until and unless they are for Brahmos-ER and Nirbhay class respectively.
A VLS plug is estimated to be approx 100tons, so well within the 10% limit of our existing 1.6-2.1K ton displacement SSKs - but those will have to wait until we got the FCAIP plug of the Kalvari class program completed.
I doubt there's that much of life left in the Sindhughosh and Sishumar class boats, to consider VLS plugs etc.

[Prem Kumar]

Brahmos-NG has been a long time coming. Am not holding my breath for it

We will see Rudram-3 inducted before Brahmos-NG

I think we are hitting a hurdle in terms of Russian willingness to share tech on liquid fueled Ramjet engines. Hence the inordinate delay. Our own STAR (target missile) also has a higher chance of getting inducted as a proper LFRJ missile, as a complete home-grown alternative to Brahmos

[srai]

^^^
Again shows how JVs really “work”

Brahmos have really not come up with anything else other than the original Brahmos-I (incremental improvements that were already “inherent”).

Whereas DRDO missiles are undergoing quite rapid R&D cycles nowadays. The know-whys and know-hows bearing fruit.

[Manish_P]

^^^
Again shows how JVs really “work”

Brahmos have really not come up with anything else other than the original Brahmos-I (incremental improvements that were already “inherent”).

Whereas DRDO missiles are undergoing quite rapid R&D cycles nowadays. The know-whys and know-hows bearing fruit.

+1. Very well put.

[drnayar]

^^^
Again shows how JVs really “work”

Brahmos have really not come up with anything else other than the original Brahmos-I (incremental improvements that were already “inherent”).

Whereas DRDO missiles are undergoing quite rapid R&D cycles nowadays. The know-whys and know-hows bearing fruit.

+1. Very well put.

indeed .. thats the reason the Indian space program is growing exponentially ... by 2035 man on orbit .. and of a different category .. man on depths of the ocean.. all indigenous tech

[bala]

This YT is claiming that Philippines wants more Brahmos missile batteries from India. The supersonic cruise missiles that have been delivered by India to Manila , has been touted as a gamechanger by the country as it faces maritime security threat from China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOPSe7eTiak

Would be newsworthy if Philippines sinks one or two of China's ship in Pacific Ocean with Brahmos missiles.

[Rakesh]

Fortifying the Future: Strengthening the Supply Chain of India’s Indigenous STFE
https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2024/ ... nous-stfe/
15 July 2024

[ArjunPandit]

BMD intereceptor tested

[drnayar]

This YT is claiming that Philippines wants more Brahmos missile batteries from India. The supersonic cruise missiles that have been delivered by India to Manila , has been touted as a gamechanger by the country as it faces maritime security threat from China.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOPSe7eTiak

Would be newsworthy if Philippines sinks one or two of China's ship in Pacific Ocean with Brahmos missiles.

A brahmos is just overkill for the Chinese coast guard ships terrorising filipino waters..it will just blast them to oblivion

[Prem Kumar]

This looks like an AD-2 test, with the ability to take down IRBM class missiles

Hope, AD-1 & 2 get operationalized soon, not just for cities but also for airbases, forward areas, critical infrastructure/industrial areas etc

It need not be perfect. With the sheer # of tests of the 1st and 2nd gen, these systems must be fairly robust now. What's needed is induction in large numbers

We also need to start thinking about UVLS in our destroyers for accommodating AD-1/2, as well as upcoming ERADS class of missiles, which can sit alongside Barak-8

[Pratyush]

https://idrw.org/drdo-gets-going-transf ... abilities.

DRDO is planning to convert the SAAW into a mini air launched cruise missile.

Published on 21st July 2024.

[SSridhar]

This looks like an AD-2 test, with the ability to take down IRBM class missiles

I too wished it were AD-2. But it is still AD-1.