India-France news

[Cyrano]

Can't say Chetak ji, the only remaining mfg industry that is world class and competitive is French defence sector, making very good but horrendously expensive stuff. Nuclear energy tech has been severely compromised due to prez Hollande blindly following German example, but ukraeen situation has given some wakeup calls.

If USD and EURO (or FFR some day) become more affordable vs INR, then Bharat stands to gain in the medium term.

[VKumar]

Food and wine is world class too

[Vayutuvan]

As for wine, it is hard to find French wines in the US. Here CA, Chilean, Australian, Argentinian wines are eating the cheese of French wines.

[Cyrano]

French wines are great, the wine making appellations and the process is tightly controlled but others have caught up and their process is less tightly controlled.

[Cyrano]

No impact on mil deals IMHO.

[chetak]

Food and wine is world class too

VKumar ji,

One has spent a lot of time in france, especially in toulouse

racism is rampant, many restaurants will not serve non whites, and as for "french food and wine", one could not agree less with you

most Indians drink wine out of plastic pouches, thinking that they will get a better "kick" and will never touch a rare steak, because "well done" is the mantra here, but the same is an anathema in the land of the frogs

but then, each to his own, and horses for courses

[Cyrano]

Perhaps you haven't been to the right places Chetak ji...

Like everywhere there are tourist trap restaurants and France has a reputation for unfriendly servers.

[chetak]

Perhaps you haven't been to the right places Chetak ji...

Like everywhere there are tourist trap restaurants and France has a reputation for unfriendly servers.

My meals were taken care of by a big conglomerate, Cyrano ji.

I had to find excuses to get away from their "hospitality" and I wasn't popular with the chefs but when in India, the frogs feasted like there was no tomorrow, especially on the tandoori chicken

BTW, The britshits were the most stingy, and the germans were the most hospitable and both ran down the frog food. Go figure

[sooraj]

Jean-Luc Melenchon's left wing alliance leads in second round.

His view on modi.

"India is a friend. But Prime Minister Narendra Modi is far right and violently hostile to Muslims in his country,"

Jean-Luc Melenchon

[hgupta]

Jean-Luc Melenchon's left wing alliance leads in second round.

His view on modi.

"India is a friend. But Prime Minister Narendra Modi is far right and violently hostile to Muslims in his country,"

Jean-Luc Melenchon

India needs to declare Jean-Luc as antiHindu to up the ante.

[Atmavik]

Jean-Luc Melenchon's left wing alliance leads in second round.

His view on modi.

"India is a friend. But Prime Minister Narendra Modi is far right and violently hostile to Muslims in his country,"

Jean-Luc Melenchon

Now the last foreign fortress has fallen. 2024 is a depressing year

[AkshaySG]

Now the last foreign fortress has fallen. 2024 is a depressing year

Macron is still President and gets along reasonably okay with the left parties so will still call the shots when it comes to foreign policy and defence so i don't expect a major change in Indo-French relations unlike if Le Pen had won.

[Pratyush]

The collective west has dig itself in a hole due to political correctness and political expediency.

The only way out for them was to have a break from the status quo. But electorate in UK and France have chosen to strengthen status quo of the past.

In Italy Meloni was cowed into conformity with existing political equations.

From an Indian POV, things are going to get challenging.

[sanjayc]

Jean-Luc Melenchon's left wing alliance leads in second round.

His view on modi.

"India is a friend. But Prime Minister Narendra Modi is far right and violently hostile to Muslims in his country,"

Jean-Luc Melenchon

And this from a dude who sees no problem in being sworn member of an institution which has burnt heathens and heretics alive. He goes to church every Sunday to condemn idol-worshippers as inferior and going to hell. And then he comes out of the church and accuses idol-worshippers of being intolerant of other faiths. Is this a circus?

[sanjaykumar]

That’s not true. They killed Jews and scientists as well. Bruno was burnt alive for their Jesus.

This is the high culture of Europe, now coming to a convert near you in India.

[Vayutuvan]

Before Bruno, it was Hypatia of Alexandria.

[Cyrano]

This is a good summary

[sanman]

Jean-Luc Melenchon's left wing alliance leads in second round.

His view on modi.

"India is a friend. But Prime Minister Narendra Modi is far right and violently hostile to Muslims in his country,"

Jean-Luc Melenchon

And this from a dude who sees no problem in being sworn member of an institution which has burnt heathens and heretics alive. He goes to church every Sunday to condemn idol-worshippers as inferior and going to hell. And then he comes out of the church and accuses idol-worshippers of being intolerant of other faiths. Is this a circus?

Melenchon has the nickname of Robespierre - the famous Frenchman who helped execute so many of his fellow elites to appease the revolutionary Left before they had him executed as well.

I wonder if there's any potential risk to ties with India, when the French Leftist coalition contains elements with strong pro-Islamist leanings.

[NRao]

Bharat should not sign an FTA with France (or Britain and Canada).

And, avoid any deals beyond the Rafale-M. Even if they start a line in Bharat.

[sanman]

Bharat should not sign an FTA with France (or Britain and Canada).

And, avoid any deals beyond the Rafale-M. Even if they start a line in Bharat.

The Rafale is our lifeline right now, for competent combat aircraft. We have no LCA/MCA/AMCA/CATSwarrior/whatever.

But so this visit with Russia, which will see multiple useful deals signed, then comes at an opportune moment, when France may be faltering as a partner. They're going through some unprecedented turmoil right now, and getting Russian tech could be really useful for us, should our ties with France come under strain.

Btw, if the new Islamo-Leftist govt in France becomes another hostile towards us like Canada's Trudeau, then I suggest working with Russia and even China to pry the French out of New Caledonia in South Pacific, where there's an uprising going on.

In nearby Africa, the French have been losing bigtime to Russia, so faraway South Pacific should be comparatively easier to clean them out of.
Besides, which Lefty govt wants to be seen doubling down as a colonial oppressor?

[Rakesh]

The Rafale...

@ sanman: Why did you even bother replying?

NRao is waiting for the deal with Dassault to fail, so he can peddle F-16 again and also GE F414EPE for AMCA.

When the US Commission on International Religious Freedom states that Hindus are being violent towards Muslims, they are to be ignored.
https://www.uscirf.gov/news-room/releas ... on-against

When President Biden accuses India of being xenophobic, he is to be ignored as well. After all, Biden is senile.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/4 ... ic-comment

But when Jean-Luc Melenchon criticizes Modi, then any new Rafale sales must be cancelled onlee

After all, only with F-16 can India achieve Ache Din! Salvation for India must come from Amreeka alone.

[Rakesh]

Jean-Luc Melenchon's left wing alliance leads in second round.

His view on modi.

"India is a friend. But Prime Minister Narendra Modi is far right and violently hostile to Muslims in his country,"

Jean-Luc Melenchon

Dassault will remind Jean-Luc of the value of the MRFA deal and all the associated benefits (for France) that come with winning that deal.

After that presentation, Jean-Luc will say, "Which Muslims?" Money & Power are the only realities.

[sanman]

@ sanman: Why did you even bother replying?

NRao is waiting for the deal with Dassault to fail, so he can peddle F-16 again and also GE F414EPE for AMCA.

When the US Commission on International Religious Freedom states that Hindus are being violent towards Muslims, they are to be ignored.
https://www.uscirf.gov/news-room/releas ... on-against

When President Biden accuses India of being xenophobic, he is to be ignored as well. After all, Biden is senile.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/4 ... ic-comment

But when Jean-Luc Melenchon criticizes Modi, then any new Rafale sales must be cancelled onlee

After all, only with F-16 can India achieve Ache Din! Salvation for India must come from Amreeka alone.

I don't think that US would be meddling in France's politics with an eye on India.
I do think US would meddle in France's politics with an eye to prolonging Ukraine conflict.

France will suffer a lot of damage with radical Lefties at the helm.
These Islamo-Lefties could potentially target India-France relations, just like Trudeau has, and like Starmer possibly might.

But India must maintain alternatives to US, since US will always look to renege on any promises or commitments, and arm-twist.
And that's because its ruling NeoCon clique will always put priorities on their own ethno-political interests at the expense of throwing lesser people like Indians under a bus. And make no mistake - these Washington NeoCons are ethno-cons.

[Rakesh]

I don't think that US would be meddling in France's politics with an eye on India.

Saar, the point is that MUTUs like NRao are hoping that India-France relations goes down the shitter. Only then, can F-16 and other Amreeki arms come flowing into India. Reliance on America, now and forever.

Post the break up of the Soviet Union, there was hope among MUTUs that India would get out of the Russian embrace and fall into the arms of the US. This was especially on a euphoric high, post the Indo-US 123 nuclear agreement. Then everything went downhill post the selection of the Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon on 27 April 2011, as part of the technical downselect.

That hope got revived again, during the "supposed" bromance of Ashton Carter and Manohar Parrikar in 2015/2016. There were proposals of F-16 production in India, joint carrier development, etc. Ache Din for India. Then Trump came along and threw cold water on all the carefully laid out plans of the MUTU. Been on the downward spiral ever since. So this latest news in France, gives NRao much hope that finally F-16 could come.

[sanman]

Saar, the point is that MUTUs like NRao are hoping that India-France relations goes down the shitter. Only then, can F-16 and other Amreeki arms come flowing into India. Reliance on America, now and forever.

But Russia factor changes that, because we can also have option of going for Russian technology too.

Post the break up of the Soviet Union, there was hope among MUTUs that India would get out of the Russian embrace and fall into the arms of the US. This was especially on a euphoric high, post the Indo-US 123 nuclear agreement. Then everything went downhill post the selection of the Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon on 27 April 2011, as part of the technical downselect.

US thought it could scoop up India on the cheap, without worrying about its past efforts to put us behind.

The main thing that derailed Indo-US relations are these NeoCons who hijacked US policy and diverted it ("Mission Accomplished") toward invading Iraq, Libya, and Syria.
Guess which country benefited most from that hijacking and tilt? Benefited at our expense. That last one Syria was quickly blocked by Putin, and that's why he became next target thru Ukraine war.

That hope got revived again, during the "supposed" bromance of Ashton Carter and Manohar Parrikar in 2015/2016. There were proposals of F-16 production in India, joint carrier development, etc. Ache Din for India. Then Trump came along and threw cold water on all the carefully laid out plans of the MUTU. Been on the downward spiral ever since. So this latest news in France, gives NRao much hope that finally F-16 could come.

I don't know what cold water you're talking about. F-16 is older generation fighter first designed in 1970s. US wanted us to manufacture it cheaply to supply it to other allies and keep Russians out of their markets. We might as well have bought Israeli Lavi design instead.

I like Trump, for same reasons that Deep State hate him so much. We threw off Art370 while he looked the other way.

[Rakesh]

But Russia factor changes that, because we can also have option of going for Russian technology too.

Indeed. But with the war in Ukraine, I am not sure how eager the IAF (or the other services) is to jump back into Russia. But in a pinch, that might be the only recourse left. The latest development ---> viewtopic.php?p=2624638#p2624638

There were rumours of izd-30 offer to India during Modi's visit to Russia. Not sure if such an offer was made, because no such announcement has been made publicly. If Indo-French relations do go south, this could end up for the IAF like the Mirage 2000 and MiG-29 acquisitions of the 1980s. Only this time, it will be Rafale + Su-57.

US thought it could scoop up India on the cheap, without worrying about its past efforts to put us behind.

The main thing that derailed Indo-US relations are these NeoCons who hijacked US policy and diverted it ("Mission Accomplished") toward invading Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

Guess which country benefited most from that hijacking and tilt? Benefited at our expense. That last one Syria was quickly blocked by Putin, and that's why he became next target thru Ukraine war.

Saar, on BRF we were asked to forget all that. It was a New Dawn, New America, New India and all that nonsense. On BRF, bringing up the past invited accusations of BRFites being narrow minded and unable to see the *BIG* picture The snake oil that was being sold was that an Indo-US military alliance would have brought significant and measurable military and industrial opportunities for India.

F-16 production line was going to address unemployment in India i.e. for every one job at TASL assembling F-16s, four other supporting jobs would have been created in India. Cutting edge technology in sensors, avionics and weaponry would come to India's military aviation industry. The line will set the ball rolling in *OTHER* sectors of India's economy. This line will also enable India to maintain the 4,000+ F-16s in service worldwide. The line was Make in India, which is different from Made in India. Thus Make in India, but for the World! This line is payment for engine technology from GE! The line would have opened the doors for other avenues of cutting-edge military cooperation.

All the above is from the snake oil that MUTUs were selling on BRF. I remember NRao vigorously leading that charge, supported by other MUTUs like sudeepj, Cosmo_R, YI Patel, chola, vina, KrishnaK, ldev, GeorgeWelch, etc. Complete and utter nonsense, especially with the ongoing slug fest between Russia and Ukraine.

When Donald Trump won the 2016 US presidential election, he threw cold water on that carefully woven yarn via MAGA (Make America Great Again) and the meltdown on BRF was a sight to see. Now NRao only talks about poles. He has transformed into a Bharatiya now! But it is hard to shake off the itch to have India mimic and follow America. So the riots in France, the possible downward trend of Indo-French relations gives him hope that F-16 could finally come and India will finally walk into the light that *ONLY* America can provide.

At the first sign of trouble between India and France, India must not look at anymore Rafales. Why rely on the shaky French, when you can rely on the world's largest (and most unreliable) Military Industrial Complex in the US?

I don't know what cold water you're talking about. F-16 is older generation fighter first designed in 1970s. US wanted us to manufacture it cheaply to supply it to other allies and keep Russians out of their markets. We might as well have bought Israeli Lavi design instead.

I like Trump, for same reasons that Deep State hate him so much. We threw off Art370 while he looked the other way.

I don't know how long you have been at BRF, but there was a well known and active thread (in the archives now) on BRF called the Single Engine Fighter. Back in 2015/2016, the late Manohar Parrikar launched that contest, post the signing of the 36 Rafale deal. It was to bring a foreign fighter production line into India. Only two contenders participated ---> the JAS-39 Gripen and the F-16 Fighting Falcon.

All those "supposed" benefits that I mentioned above (wrt to F-16 production in India), came from that thread. It ran up to 136 pages! Here is the link ---> viewtopic.php?t=7261

Post the 123 Nuclear Agreement, there was strong optimism and hope among the MUTUs on BRF and elsewhere, that India has finally joined the American camp. The 123 nuclear agreement also closed the door on the 1998 sanctions that the Clinton administration imposed upon India post Pokharan '98. For the MUTUs, it was a chance for India to get access to cutting edge US military hardware. Alphabet agreements were being signed, US military hardware was being acquired (C-17s, P-8Is, C-130s, AH-64s, CH-47s, etc) and the crown jewel was going to be an American fighter.

Not too long after the 123 Nuclear Agreement was signed between India and the US, was the formal launch of the MMRCA contest by Air HQ. Every nation that built a fighter was offering their wares. In the US (and with the MUTUs), the contest was considered just a mere formality. It was widely expected that either Boeing (F-18) or Lockheed Martin (F-16) was going to win. That did not occur, as the technical downselect by Air HQ on 27 April 2011 eliminated both the US entrants in the MMRCA contest. The US Govt considered this a deep betrayal by India, as the US felt they had bent over backwards to accommodate India with the 123 Nuclear Agreement. This was echoed by the MUTUs on BRF.

The fact that the F-16 is a generation older did not matter to the US Govt or the MUTU. The relationship mattered more. As Ashley Tellis famously said, "India chose a plane, over a relationship." Not selecting an American fighter was like a knife in the back for them. They could not understand how the military in India (i.e. the IAF) can override the civilian Govt of the day. In the US, foreign military sales are an extension arm of US foreign policy. We sell you arms and you follow our lead. This is how the US led military alliances the world over. India proved to be a different cookie altogether.

Post 2011, there was a five year lull till the 2016 Single Engine fighter contest was launched. That gave the US Govt and the MUTU much hope. That went out the window, post the 2016 US presidential election and with Manohar Parrikar leaving the Defence Ministry for the post of CM of Goa. In place of the Single Engine contest, came the MRFA (Multi Role Fighter Aircraft) contest that still runs today. That hope was revived again in the MRCBF (Multi Role Carrier Based Fighter) contest, but then died again with the selection of the Rafale M over the F-18 Super Hornet.

Now Rafale is leading the MRFA contest, much to the chagrin of the MUTU. So the unrest in France and the criticism of Modi is a welcome news to them. When you understand the *BIG* picture, you will understand why NRao says no more Rafales. The MUTU mind is a strange mind.

[hgupta]

India should not buy any more foreign fighters from now on. We should only buy Indian made fighters and that means Tejas, ORCAS, AMCA, whatever. We simply need to bite the bullet and fund the whole programs including the engine program. There’s no shortcut around here.

[SRajesh]

Rakesh
Pardon my ignorance
MUTU used here has a :
1. Māori meaning: cease
2. Colloquial: poor reasoning or knowledge based on gut feelings and common beliefs as opposed to knowledge
3. Something else
Mods pardon for digressing and unrelated to this thread

[bala]

MUTU - more USA than USA
i.e. there are some more concerned for USA that USA itself is concerned.

[Rakesh]

Rakesh ...

MUTU = More Unkil Than Unkil.

You have to watch out for these folks. They are more dangerous and disingenuous than the American natives i.e. WASPs (White Anglo Saxon Protestants). I don't know why they behave and act the way they do. Perhaps it is a burning desire to perpetually prove their loyalty to the WASP or fear of losing their green card status/US Passport or perhaps something totally different. Regardless of their motivation, they do not have India's interests at heart. It is America first and if that means railroad over India, then so be it.

They will also change/adapt to the majoritarian political position in India, if that advances their agenda. Be wary of them.

Being loyal to one's country of residence does not have to violate being grateful to one's country of birth. That concept is lost on the MUTU.

[sanman]

MUTU = More Unkil Than Unkil.

You have to watch out for these folks. They are more dangerous and disingenuous than the American natives i.e. WASPs (White Anglo Saxon Protestants). I don't know why they behave and act the way they do. Perhaps it is a burning desire to perpetually prove their loyalty to the WASP or fear of losing their green card status/US Passport or perhaps something totally different. Regardless of their motivation, they do not have India's interests at heart. It is America first and if that means railroad over India, then so be it.

They will also change/adapt to the majoritarian political position in India, if that advances their agenda. Be wary of them.

Being loyal to one's country of residence does not have to violate being grateful to one's country of birth. That concept is lost on the MUTU.

I just more generically use the word "sepoy" -- most often for the knee-jerk Leftist variety, who are the most vociferous.

Although Ashley Tellis fits the bill.

[ArjunPandit]

oh rakesh ji..i came back after long and seems like i didnt miss any thing ..more peddling of faarign phaitars..injun flux capacitors and what not..had we funded a jet program in 2015 we'd have been better off

[vera_k]

India should not buy any more foreign fighters from now on. We should only buy Indian made fighters and that means Tejas, ORCAS, AMCA, whatever. We simply need to bite the bullet and fund the whole programs including the engine program. There’s no shortcut around here.

Nothing to disagree with here. But the French have been net suppliers of tech to India at least since the time of Tipu Sultan. Must be a reason why Indian governments turn to them for tech over other suppliers.

[Vayutuvan]

Admiral @Rakesh saab,

They will also change/adapt to the majoritarian political position in India, if that advances their agenda. Be wary of them.

This is so true. I have been seeing this trend on several of my WA groups as well. They are "seemingly" behind Modi ji yet keep supporting the US anti-Bharat policies saying "Modi and Dr. Jaishankar can handle it" or some pap of that nature. They praise Buffet and Bill Gates donating 99% but dump on Mukesh Ambani showing off his $1 billion house. Even if they are made aware of the huge character faults and self-serving nature of the first two, they argue with you as to Ambani and Adani are the "worstest ever" blah di blah.
(sorry for the OT)

[chetak]

The two french commie parties have together sandbagged the RW party of le pen and now they are trying to jail her citing "irregular campaign financing" as the reason

the french commies are among the very worst of the woke lot

They seem to have used a toolkit and planned well in advance

melenchon will likely be the pm and macron will continue as president

macron's gamble has paid off ....

somewhere, macron seems to have seriously pissed off georgia melanie, and they are daggers drawn






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj3Vy728dso


Italy Vs France Heats Up As Meloni Crushes Macron Amid Migrant Crisis





The video is 04:11 minutes long

[sanman]

The two french commie parties have together sandbagged the RW party of le pen and now they are trying to jail her citing "irregular campaign financing" as the reason

the french commies are among the very worst of the woke lot

They seem to have used a toolkit and planned well in advance

melenchon will likely be the pm and macron will continue as president

macron's gamble has paid off ....

somewhere, macron seems to have seriously pissed off georgia melanie, and they are daggers drawn

So it sounds like the same game that was played against Trump is now being repeated against Marine LePen.

Just pile lots of criminal cases against them, to keep them from running again.
Apparently everyone who stands against the new global order will be declared a criminal.

[Haresh]

If he does try to get more favouritism from them, he could endanger the Rafale deal. Either cancel it or refuse spare parts.
In which case they are useless, maybe just trade them with Russia for new fighters ?


Mélenchon will exploit and leverage France’s large Muslim vote

"Two decades ago, Pascal Boniface, an academic specialising in international relations, advised the then pro-Israel Socialist Party to embrace the Palestinian cause in order to co-opt the growing Muslim vote. This is exactly what Mélenchon is doing now, in his brutal, devastating way."

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/imagine ... n-hsne20og

[chetak]

K9 Teams From India Deployed For Paris Olympics Security

Paris: Ten highly skilled K9 (canine) teams from India have been sent to France to help ensure safety at various venues during the Paris Olympics, which will start on July 26. This is the first time the Indian and French governments are working together on such a project.

https://thedailyguardian.com/k9-teams-f ... -security/

[Mukesh.Kumar]

Massive attack on French High Speed Railway Network hours before Olympics opening.

CNN-https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/26/europe/france-rail-network-disruption-paris-olympics-intl-hnk/index.html

France’s high-speed train lines were targeted by multiple “malicious” acts including arson on Friday, in what has been described as “an attack on France” and “coordinated sabotage” to disrupt travel ahead of the opening ceremony of the Paris Olympics.

[KL Dubey]

Outcomes from Modi's France visit

Full readout by Bharat sarkar: https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePa ... ID=2102247

Shorter version: https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/m ... 2025-02-12

KEY OUTCOMES OF PM'S FRANCE VISIT
India-France declaration on Artificial Intelligence (AI): Both nations committed to enhancing collaboration in AI research and applications, emphasising ethical and responsible AI development.

Launch of India-France Year of Innovation 2026 logo: The two countries unveiled the official logo for the upcoming initiative, signifying their commitment to fostering innovation and scientific collaboration.

Indo-French Center for Digital Sciences: A Letter of Intent was signed between India's Department of Science and Technology (DST) and France's Institut National de Recherche en Informatique et en Automatique (INRIA) to establish a dedicated center for digital sciences, furthering research and development.

Support for Indian startups: In a bid to boost entrepreneurship, an agreement was signed to host 10 Indian startups at the renowned French startup incubator, Station F.

Partnership on advanced modular and small modular reactors: A Declaration of Intent was signed to enhance collaboration on next-generation nuclear reactor technologies.

Renewal of MoU on nuclear energy cooperation – The agreement between India's Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) and France's Commissariat a IEnergie Atomique et aux Energies Alternatives (CEA) was renewed, strengthening the nuclear energy partnership.

Cooperation between nuclear research institutions: A new implementing agreement was signed between DAE and CEA to foster collaboration between India’s Global Center for Nuclear Energy Partnership (GCNEP) and France’s Institute for Nuclear Science and Technology (INSTN).

Triangular development cooperation: India and France issued a joint declaration of intent to collaborate on development projects in the Indo-Pacific region, focusing on sustainability and economic growth.

India’s consulate in Marseille: PM Modi and French officials jointly inaugurated India's new consulate in Marseille, further strengthening people-to-people ties and diplomatic presence.

Environmental partnership: A Declaration of Intent was signed between India’s Ministry of Environment, Forest and Climate Change and France’s Ministry for the Ecological Transition to enhance cooperation in biodiversity conservation, climate action, and sustainable development.