Pakistan Armed Forces: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

^^^ Thanks srai. Good to know.

From Block 70/72 up (which is the latest block) they use MB seats, which the F-35 also uses ---> https://martin-baker.com/ejection-seats/us18e/

[Manish_P]

How does MB track ejections?

My understanding is that ejection seats come with satellite trackers so that SAR teams can locate the pilot. Once ejected a status message is communicated via which MB will come to know that an ejection happened.

Would this not be a security risk?

[Pratyush]

For every sucessful ejection Martin Baker gifts a tie club membership to the pilot.

https://martin-baker.com/tie-club/

In an open society life and death of fighter pilots is well known. It's reported in the media. The company tracks this information and thus celebrates every sucessful ejection.

[Aditya_V]

If I am right only JF17B's Trainers or later batches were fitted with Martin Baker ejection seats, that was a limited no. something like 17 or 34 , and 3 or 4 have crashed in about 4 years, there is not much info apart from a few crash photographs of earlier JF-17's crashes, no news is put out by the PAF

The Attrition rate for the JF-17 seems to be poor, data on J-10 is also very limited. I am willing to bet it is still the F-16 with AMRAAM/ GBU/ US LGB's with SAAB erieye AEW which are the Backbone of PAF even today.

[Rakesh]

The F-16 is indeed the backbone of the PAF. That plane is ingrained into the psyche of the PAF.

The low-quality Chinese maal is for psy-ops onlee.

[srai]

^^^
Even Bollywood

[Pratyush]

Do we have the accident rates per 100 k hours for the blunder?

Because I remain during the turn of the century, the TSPF was celebrating the IAF loss ratio. Claiming that Pakistan has to wait for the IAF to fly itself into the ground. Before coming after Kashmir.

How time flies.

[Kartik]

Do we have the accident rates per 100 k hours for the blunder?

Because I remain during the turn of the century, the TSPF was celebrating the IAF loss ratio. Claiming that Pakistan has to wait for the IAF to fly itself into the ground. Before coming after Kashmir.

How time flies.

Based on the publicly disclosed info available from the PAF (the source was some book mentioned in a tweet by a Paki), the JF-17 fleet had completed 100,000 sorties in late 2023 or so. This was done right after the 5th crash.

And we have 5 publicly known crashes of the JF-17.

Now, the JF-17's average sortie duration will be no more than 30-35 minutes. That gives us a figure of 35,000 hours for the JF-17 fleet in total. Just to give them some benefit of doubt over the data, I'll make it 40,000 flight hours total.

Now, with 5 known crashes in 40,000 flight hours, that gives us an attrition rate of 1.25 crashes per 10,000 hours.

Compared to that, the USAF had it's lowest attrition rate for F-16s in 2003. That was 1.97 F-16s lost per 100,000 flight hours.

(Source - F-16 vs Mirage-2000 attrition rates

Just compare - the best year of the F-16 in the USAF saw 1.97 F-16s lose per 100,000 flight hours. By comparison, the JF-17 fleet has seen 5 accidents in ~40,000 flight hours total!

[Kartik]

Here's the tweet that stated that as per the History of the PAF 2014-2023, the PAF had flown 100,000 sorties of the JF-17.

Tweet link

[Rakesh]

Kya ho raha hai Pak Army mein? Senior officers raping their juniors and juniors then committing soosai!!!

https://x.com/TigerEyeCommand/status/18 ... 0367664259 ---> Lieutenant R Hum Chingizi of the Pakistan Army from Quetta committed suicide, after reportedly being sexually assaulted by Brigadier Chaudhry Zaheer. Before this incident, Major Danish was also sexually assaulted and a video of the assault became viral.

[Manish_P]

Kya ho raha hai Pak Army mein? Senior officers raping their juniors and juniors then committing soosai!!!...

Just following the traditions of the mughlai baccha baaz ghazis...

[MeshaVishwas]

8 security officials pig slaughtered in suicide blast targeting Bannu Cantonment: ISPR- Yawn

[MeshaVishwas]

Interesting video, Paki Terror army travelling in Mufti was an odd thing.
Don't understand much as the auto translate does a poor job but a good look on some Paki posts in occupied Ladakh.
Pakis spend $80M a year to sustain posts there, still too cheap.
Neelum valley getting incinerated by us as response, warmed my heart.

[MeshaVishwas]

I think that these maybe are AW139 heptrs classed as combat aircraft, pakis have their eyes on the L-15.

UN Register of Conventional Arms export document for 2023 shows #Italy to have delivered two ‘combat aircraft’ for the year apiece to #Azerbaijan, #Malaysia, #Pakistan

- Gareth Jennings on Twitter

In April 2015, it was reported that Pakistan was considering purchase of the KAI T‐50 Golden Eagle AJT/LIFT and light attack aircraft. With no follow-on reports that this deal had been finalised, it seems that the country opted for the M-346 instead.

Gareth Jennings on Twitter

[VinodTK]

US journalist report says Pakistan Army running online campaign against judges, activists
https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/us ... ngNewsVerp]us-journalist-report-says-pakistan-army-running-online-campaign-against-judges-activists
02 Aug 2024

[Aditya_V]

Here's the tweet that stated that as per the History of the PAF 2014-2023, the PAF had flown 100,000 sorties of the JF-17.

Tweet link

PAf has hardly been truthful, they were talking about their Chinese AWACS being the best and greatest before suddenly retiring them, as shown on 27-Feb 19, I think they rely on their F-16's and now J-10 fleet, the remaining F-7pg , Mirage 3/5 are numbers on paper and I dont they have great expectation from their JF-17 fleet also.

[Rakesh]

From Twitter...so FWIW...

PAF has "reportedly" sent pilots to China to start training on the J-31 stealth fighter. The L-15 trainer is also being sought/acquired by the PAF.

If true, the PAF will become the first country in the region to operate a stealth fighter.

JF-17, J-10CE + possibly J-31, backed by a fleet of F-16A/B Block 15 MLU and F-16C/D Block 50/52.

[mody]

Pakistan recently inducted its 9th Saab 2000 Erieye aircraft (one was probably lost in paki talibani attack). Not much publicized, all done quietly. And here IAF is still twiddling its thumbs with 2 Netra MK1 inducted, along with the 3 A50 Phalcons. Only now IAF has started asking for additional Netra MK1 to be inducted by trying to acquire EJ-145 planes in the second hand market.

[Manish_P]

From Twitter...so FWIW...

PAF has "reportedly" sent pilots to China to start training on the J-31 stealth fighter. The L-15 trainer is also being sought/acquired by the PAF.

If true, the PAF will become the first country in the region to operate a stealth fighter.

...

I would be tempted to use the words 'alleged' before the word 'stealth'

And I doubt that the chinese would give it to the pakis. If they do then it would signal a real break of the US from the pakis. Of course the chinese can force the pakis to operate it from separate bases with chinese personnel on station to keep a close watch. Or have they bought land (in lieu of loan repayment) from the pakis for an overseas chinese airbase where the J-31s will be housed and operated by the PLAAF pilots with the pakis being given joy-rides every now and then.

Otherwise it seems unlikely unless the chinese are supremely confident of their product being a true VLO aircraft and also that the pakis can be trusted to be.. well 'not paki-like'.

[AkshaySG]

^^ Another advantage of such a deal to the Chinese would be if India under pressure of falling behind the Pakis in the "stealth/alleged stealth" race and ties its wagon to either the F-35 or SU-57 and prematurely abandon or de-prioritize it's own 5th Gen program

Can just imagine the OP-eds from Chandigarh lobby and "esteemd" Vice Marshals full of clichés on how a bird in hand is better than two in bush

[MeshaVishwas]

Quidney pro plus(registered trademark) Kidwai strikes again:

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/arunp2810/status/1827247805255090435 ---> Pak Navy P-3 pilot describes March 2019 detection of periscope at 70 (!) nautical miles followed by “locking on” of IN sub for an hour and 40 minutes. Officer awarded Tamgha-e-Basalat for “courage & valour.”

https://x.com/jaisheel/status/1827328487469862968 ---> Isn't the Orion for maritime recce ? What weapons does it carry?

https://x.com/arunp2810/status/1827329300145832041 ---> Its primary role is ASW and it carries torpedos, depth charges and anti-ship missiles.

https://x.com/jaisheel/status/1827330461573550306 ---> OK. So does ‘locking’ for 1 hour and 40 minutes imply Indian sub could not take evasive measures?

https://x.com/arunp2810/status/1827338225783889991 ---> When/if the Pak P-3 detected the sub on radar, the sub would have simultaneously picked up the radar transmission on its EW system. Thereafter a “crash dive” & “silent regime” would have followed in a matter of minutes.

How did the Pakistan Navy target an Indian submarine at sea?

[MeshaVishwas]

New PNS Barber and a civilian ship Hunain commissioned into the Al Qaeda Navy.
Same inbred name sake was used to attack INS Godavari some time back.
The shi**y little chicken next to Greece needs a good roasting.

[wig]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/ro ... d486&ei=32

Rocket Motors Supply, Top Generals Meet: China-Pakistan Military Ties Continue To Deepen
excerpts

China has supplied Pakistan rocket motors for its Shaheen-3 ballistic missile with a range of about 2,750 km and targeting India, and is paying the price. The State Department of the United States of America, on September 13, imposed sanctions on the Beijing Research Institute of Automation for Machine Building Industry for shipping the motors for the rockets and also, the Ababeel medium-range ballistic missile with a range of about 2,000 km.

The Ababeel has MIRV or multiple independently targeted reentry vehicle capabilities, which means the missile has several warheads and can hit three or four different locations at the same time. Pakistan's MIRV technology may have come from China as well.

This is not the first time that the United States has sanctioned China. In the last three years, the USA has done it several times, including late last year. China has supplied nuclear technology to Pakistan in the past.

Pakistan's top general in China
It's another sign of close military ties China and Pakistan have, General Sahir Shamshad Mirza, Chairman of Pakistan's Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee, was in China earlier this months. Expectedly, he met top Chinese military commanders. They included General He Weidong, the second ranked vice chairman of China's Central Military Commission (CMC) and also, politburo member.

The other big meeting was with General Liu Zhenli, chief of staff of the joint staff department of the CMC and former commander of the People's Liberation Army's ground forces. General Mirza also spoke at the prestigious Beijing Xiangsha Forum.

[sanman]

https://x.com/arunp2810/status/1827247805255090435 ---> Pak Navy P-3 pilot describes March 2019 detection of periscope at 70 (!) nautical miles followed by “locking on” of IN sub for an hour and 40 minutes. Officer awarded Tamgha-e-Basalat for “courage & valour.”

https://x.com/jaisheel/status/1827328487469862968 ---> Isn't the Orion for maritime recce ? What weapons does it carry?

It's a patrol aircraft with ASW capability, so it's armed for that.

https://x.com/arunp2810/status/1827329300145832041 ---> Its primary role is ASW and it carries torpedos, depth charges and anti-ship missiles.

https://x.com/jaisheel/status/1827330461573550306 ---> OK. So does ‘locking’ for 1 hour and 40 minutes imply Indian sub could not take evasive measures?

https://x.com/arunp2810/status/1827338225783889991 ---> When/if the Pak P-3 detected the sub on radar, the sub would have simultaneously picked up the radar transmission on its EW system. Thereafter a “crash dive” & “silent regime” would have followed in a matter of minutes.

How did the Pakistan Navy target an Indian submarine at sea?

Submarines can only be detected by radar only when on the surface, as water is an electrolyte which is largely impenetrable to radio waves.

[basant]

Submarines can be detected by ASW planes such as Orions using various techniques, though easiest by far is a surfaced target. Recently, P-3C Orion of Bulgaria detected a Russian Kilo class sub. Surfaced periscopes can also be tracked. When approximate location is known even for submerged submarine, wakes and sonobuoys are useful to track.

[pravula]

Isn’t it the equivalent of a radar detecting a flying aircraft during peacetime? What am I missing?

[basant]

Equivalent yes, same modes no. To begin with, the clutters (surface vs sea) are different. The typical environment, sources of noise, size and mobility and target signatures are different. So while the concept of radar remains the same, the algorithms are quite different.

[pravula]

I meant to say, was that sub even trying to hide?

[Kartik]

Pakistan has confirmed the sale of JF-17 Block 3 fighters to Azerbaijan. Apparently 4 twin seaters and 8 single seaters, though the details have not been announced yet.

ADEX 2024- Azerbaijan JF-17 delivery announced

[Manish_P]

Pakistan has confirmed the sale of JF-17 Block 3 fighters to Azerbaijan. Apparently 4 twin seaters and 8 single seaters, though the details have not been announced yet.

ADEX 2024- Azerbaijan JF-17 delivery announced

Armenia has ordered the Akash SAM missile systems from us right. Maybe we will get to hear of it's first kill soon

[Rakesh]

Surprised to see a nation "begging" for assistance mustering large funds for its armed forces: Indian Navy Chief on Pakistan Navy
https://www.aninews.in/news/national/ge ... 014180825/
14 Oct 2024

VIDEO: https://x.com/ANI/status/1845750529936470205 ---> Delhi: On being asked about Pakistan getting equipment and weapon support from China, Indian Navy Chief Admiral Dinesh Tripathi says "I think more than a cause of concern, it is very surprising as to how an economy which is faltering and begging for International assistance could muster the funds for ensuring that their armed forces are modernised. We are keeping track of what is happening in the Pakistan Navy. What kind of weapons and platforms they are getting from various sources and we have got a strategy in place to ensure that maritime security in the region and our national maritime interests are not compromised. As far as China is concerned, you are fully aware that it has become the largest navy in terms of numbers. That also we are keeping a track."

[BhairavP]

^well, their Armed Forces run the country, whereas we're the other way around. Their acquisitions are speedy and fatafat.. ours are the opposite.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/amarsharma98/status/1847985753940283447 ---> What happened with this Google?

[Manish_P]

https://x.com/amarsharma98/status/1847985753940283447 ---> What happened with this Google?
...

Lawhore-via-Kargil, Akhand Bharat happened and I didn't even know about it until now!

[basant]

Pakistan aims to make India’s Tejas combat aircraft’s competitor, showcases plan...

“The PFX fighter jet will be able to compete with the Indian Tejas fighter jet and will be ready for operational use in the next 4-5 years,” said a PAF spokesperson adding that the PFX fighter will also feature improved avionics, a more powerful radar, and greater payload capacity.

[Manish_P]

^ which aircraft are they repainting now?

[srai]

^^^
FC-1 / JF-17 ???

[Manish_P]

^^^
FC-1 / JF-17 ???

They already do that, don't they. I wondered if it was the J-10. Since they are trumpeting it as 4.5 gen equivalent

[Aditya_V]

Pakistan aims to make India’s Tejas combat aircraft’s competitor, showcases plan...

“The PFX fighter jet will be able to compete with the Indian Tejas fighter jet and will be ready for operational use in the next 4-5 years,” said a PAF spokesperson adding that the PFX fighter will also feature improved avionics, a more powerful radar, and greater payload capacity.

Weren't Pakis claimed the super duper Bunder is much better than Tejas, they have inducted 145 JF-17 , 25 J 10 are worried about our small fleet of Tejas?