India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[Manish_P]

...
However, actions (both public and behind the scenes) have to be calibrated/tailored for each of them, especially in the light of specific indian interests in each country and the diaspora therein.

Agree. The one to one interactions will continue until pushed to the point of restrictive and constrictive embargo...like with Iran.

[chetak]

+1

Actually IMHO India must treat the US-UK-Canada-Australia-NZ as one single unit... the five eyes are essentially the single flaming eye of Sauron.

Bharat sarkar/MEA high level now being composed of seasoned and nationalist professionals, I would be surprised if the MEA has not already considered these countries as strongly linked if not a "single unit" in many matters.

However, actions (both public and behind the scenes) have to be calibrated/tailored for each of them, especially in the light of specific indian interests in each country and the diaspora therein.

Dubey ji,

your assessment is spot on.

The 5 gora eyes are not only a unified geopolitical resource capable of global operations in terms of influence peddling, but also a socio religious cohort with commonality of funding and shared operational ecosystems for their protestant conversion agendas.

The fact that these guys are still active in the Indian NE after more than a hundred years of agenda building but are also deeply involved in ensuring unsettled borders and incomplete fencing to encourage cross border loyalties by facilitating familial ties via illegal migrations and demographic changes by using selective and targeted settlements to outnumber the original and local populace inhabiting the region for hundreds of years

Now, the BIF have finally made their move, via the regime change operation in beediland, and the ultimate objective being to try and establish a contiguous abrahamic state by socio political and socio economic digestion of the sovereign territories of multiple states to carve out an independent new state for themselves, a state that is subject solely and only to their control.

The reason for this move is nefarious as it puts India in grave danger of becoming an easy target for secession and balkanization.

The real reason for xi and modi ji's rapprochement following their talks on the sidelines of the BRICS summit in the russian city of Kazan is yet to be made clear but it could not have taken place without a lot of dedicated background efforts over an extended period of time by diplomats and other officials from both countries.

For India, russia and cheen, BRICS is insurance against the amriki's domineering culture of browbeating it's so called friends and allies, and to set them against others, just like they are doing in ukraine after shanghaiing much of europe against their will. The europeans simply do not have the stomach to fight the russians.

The germans are the ones who are crapping most of all, fearful of the nightmarishly savage memories of the russian hordes who exacted a terrible revenge on the germans for the many atrocities committed on them during the WWII attack on russia by the invading germans

It is time for India to send the right message.

[chetak]

garshitty seems to have grown a little moustache

and where was the accountability for headley and rana

[Vayutuvan]

... of specific indian interests in each country and the diaspora therein.

Interests of Diaspora, especially those who have given up Indian citizenship, should be a distant second. Indian interests are supreme, even if OCI interests have to be sacrificed at the altar of geopolitics.

[Cyrano]

Diaspora is leverage saar, though we never speak in these terms. In the coming years, Indian Diaspora will become more and more important to achieve the rebalancing in a "shanti poorvak" way.

[g.sarkar]

Cyranoji, as a part of the Indian diaspora in the US, I have to bring to your attention the fact that Bobby Jindal is a part of that diaspora. Many have already sold their atma to Shaitan to become successful here. Do not expect any pro Indian act peaceful or otherwise from them.
Gautam

[Aditya_V]

Its Tricky, some part of Diaspora works for 5 eyes interests, the other part for Indian Interests, we have to see what is India as nation's best interests. Keep working with the good till they are strong enough.

[Cyrano]

Gautam saar,
So is Jaypal and many others who have sold their Indianness in chasing the American dream. Their relative success makes them think they are doing right. But when the tide turns, they will try to jump ship and fall into irrelevance unless they rediscover their roots - the probability is low, so irrelevance is likely.

The real Diaspora that we should focus on are the thousands that fill the stadia and cheer for NaMo, and millions more like them, focused on being successful while doing the right thing - which the Indianness in them enables and keeps them moored spiritually to Bharat. JMT...

[S_Madhukar]

How does CCP deal with Chinese diaspora ? Helpful ones are felicitated and troublesome are banned or kept away. We need to incentivise good behaviour

[drnayar]

Its Tricky, some part of Diaspora works for 5 eyes interests, the other part for Indian Interests, we have to see what is India as nation's best interests. Keep working with the good till they are strong enough.

there is lot there can be done.,

1] pravasi s can keep "tabs" on each other like the chinese does , the OCI card is going to become more valuable as the country develops and more opportunities to create wealth come up inside the country.
2] Most expats have investments in India., a rigorous OCI review can make sure those are held by only those favouring the indian state [ the statute of OCI expressly prohibits anti indian activities ] ;
3] No Fly lists : potent !..in place for the "worthies" .. make sure they cant even transit through the subcontinent
4] Prohibitory list : this will include culprits and their families seeking any help in the country, banning them from owning property , banking channels

[putnanja]

CCP is centrally controlled and they follow the same policy. If a non-nationalistic govt comes to power in India, expect all these BIF to be welcomed. Does one need to remind people about the extra-constitutional BIF that controlled the UPA govt for a decade ? In fact, some of the famous SC lawyers will be in the front if any OCIs are treated differently based on their allegience, filing cases in SC against govt.

[Cyrano]

I'm not sure all that is needed nor advisable. As Bharat gains in strength and decolonises it's mindset, the core of the diaspora will enlarge and become unshakable support, the naysayers will become at least neutral and any remaining fringe anti India elements like the khalistanis of today that pose any form of natsec threats can be dealt with.

The last thing we need to do is coercive stuff like the Chinese regime which is oppressive and insecure.

[Mort Walker]

Gautam saar,
So is Jaypal and many others who have sold their Indianness in chasing the American dream. Their relative success makes them think they are doing right. But when the tide turns, they will try to jump ship and fall into irrelevance unless they rediscover their roots - the probability is low, so irrelevance is likely.

The real Diaspora that we should focus on are the thousands that fill the stadia and cheer for NaMo, and millions more like them, focused on being successful while doing the right thing - which the Indianness in them enables and keeps them moored spiritually to Bharat. JMT...

There are people on this forum that fit that exact description.

[ernest]

We shouldn't consider politicians to be indicative of our US diaspora at large. Politicians are driven by rewards of the setup, which wouldn't encourage pro-India voices. Even that is somewhat changing with Vivek Ramaswamy. As India grows in strength, the diaspora will also become more pro-India interests

[Vayutuvan]

...The real Diaspora that we should focus on are the thousands that fill the stadia and cheer for NaMo, and millions more like them, focused on being successful while doing the right thing - which the Indianness in them enables and keeps them moored spiritually to Bharat. JMT...

Some are really conflicted. They vote for those diaspora leaders who give moral lectures to India but at the same time they fill the stadia for Modi. It is especially true with the folks in CA and other big cities. Therein lies the problem. Those thousands filling the stadia are not dependable by a long shot. Their own personal well being takes precedence over India's interests, always. I don't blame them as such unless they start becoming a nuisance like the relatives of the passengers during the Kandahar hijacking or arguing that they need this award or that entitlement from GoI. Very few are in a position to risk their neck for India.

[Vayutuvan]

How does CCP deal with Chinese diaspora ? Helpful ones are felicitated and troublesome are banned or kept away. We need to incentivise good behaviour

It is not possible, at least not in attracting high tech researchers back to India. There is a big gap in the remunerations between India and the US compared to China and the US, for one. China also can create islands of plenty for these folks. India cannot do that.

I will give you one example without naming names. One well known theory and technology gentleman, went back. He was hired by NIC to start a de novo group to do research in a very important NatSec area. One of my BE classmates was on the hiring committee. This eminent gentleman was hired of course. The orders came from PMO itself. He was given a salary of 3 lacs PM which is far above what senior NIC folks were getting. There was a lot of grumbling among the senior members at NIC. They missed the point that he turned down tenure track positions at the top five US universities in his research area. If he had to setup a group, then there was not many in India itself who would be able to come up to speed. He had to per force attract young Indian PhDs from the US who have just graduated and have not gone into the US research establishment. If they are not offered at least 35 lacs PA (it is has to be a lot more now), they would stay back in the US and get the greencards from the "highly educated" category.

[Vayutuvan]

Recently I was watching a YouTube program where it says that if you get about 4-5 lacs per month, then you can have a really wonderful life in Bengaluru. You can rent a nice independent villa in a nice part of the city, have a nanny for the kids, kids going to very good schools, get driven around by a chauffeur, and househelp including help in the kitchen.

[Vayutuvan]

will be in the front if any OCIs are treated differently based on their allegience, filing cases in SC against govt.

Absolutely. There was so much noise, screaming and shouting, when the OCI of that nalayak baccha of Tavleen Singh got cancelled.

[Vayutuvan]

Anyway sorry for the OT posts. We can take it elsewhere.

[Cyrano]

How long will these gold diggers last and what will they deliver remains to be seen.

At such vv high salary why limit ourselves to diaspora?

Any such super brain who expects the equivalent of US salary*INR conversion rate as Indian salary is simply unaffordable for our $2500 ANNUAL per capita country. Such attempts to extract loyalty from a mercenary attitude are bound to fail.

[vera_k]

Except for execs (and this expert may very well be the equivalent of an exec), the MNCs shuttling staff between the USA and India only guarantee compensation that provides the same quality of life in either place.

Anecdotally, there are fewer qualified people with higher end skills in India, so their compensation has tended to rise significantly. While compensation for lower end has been falling.

Some glossy recruitment material laying this out may help fill these jobs.

[chetak]

vi@WA

garshitty should best get back to photogenically gambolling with his bollywood lgbtq fans and/or sampling greasy street food from the thelas

U.S Envoy Eric Garcetti on India's stand on Pannum case: "We take terrorist acts, not words but acts, incredibly seriously.”

Really, so people are not taken to task in the U.S for threatening Presidents etc?

Here's a Hard fact check:

1. Craig Robertson, 75, of Provo, Utah, was shot and killed by FBI agents who were trying to arrest him on charges of making social media threats against President Joe Biden.

2. Abigail Jo Shry, 43, of Alvin, Texas, was arrested by federal agents and charged with threatening to kill the federal judge overseeing the prosecution of former President Donald Trump.

3. Adam Bies, 47, of Mercer, Pennsylvania, pleaded guilty to 14 counts of making threats online against federal officers.

4. In 2022 federal officials charged more people over public threats – against elected officials, law enforcement and judicial officials, educators and health care workers – than in any of the previous 10 years.

[Vayutuvan]

How long will these gold diggers last and what will they deliver remains to be seen.
...

If I tell you the name you wouldn't call him a gold digger. He is far from that. He is already quite well-off.

[Vayutuvan]

Except for execs (and this expert may very well be the equivalent of an exec),

He is not an exec. OK let me give the name. He is Narendra Karmarkar. He did not give up his Indian citizenship and returned to India. He was being paid quite handsomely at Bell Labs, worked as visiting Associate professor at MIT just to see whether he should accept a position there. He decided against joining MIT and returned to India. Was at to TIFR/Pune University/CDAC.

[Vayutuvan]

How long will these gold diggers last and what will they deliver remains to be seen.

See above.

[S_Madhukar]

Chinese routinely pay million dollar salaries to any East Asian to gain their semiconductor knowledge, as they did with Russian scientists in 90s and recently even gave an Olympic berth to a US based AI Sino professor's daughter just so that he could lead research inside China. May be with our booming stock markets we can let folks make $$ true capitalism style while contributing here even for lesser $ if babus become too stingy

[Cyrano]

So the heavily subsidized education at IIT which gave the foundation for further studies in US universities and high paying jobs is quickly forgotten and R2I is contingent upon maintaining the earnings that he would have made had he stayed in the US, perhaps to pay off the mortgage on a California/CT home or two and to put his kids through unsubsidised US schools and universities.

If he can pull it off in the private sector, why not? But if he is working for a Govt institution then he is working for the tea stall vendors taking out mudra loans and anganwadi teacher whose parents need ayushman Bharat coverage, who simply cannot afford to meet his salary expectations no matter how qualified and brilliant he is. As to retaining indian passport, how does it really translate to desh bhakti in this scenario?!

[Vayutuvan]

Cyrano gaaru, let us take it to Indian Education or some other thread. You have raised many issues on flawed assumptions.

[Cyrano]

It's OK Saar, nothing personal against you or karmakar Ji whose accomplishments I salute, or any other diaspora, I'm one myself.

[vsunder]

When India was in bed with the CIA

Nowadays the Internet is full of morons who know very little about anything and worse these morons have their own channel where they exhibit their ignorance. Charlatans all. Here is a story.

On June 3rd, 1963 the Indian President Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, more about this man another time, a serial womanizer according to the biography of his own son Sarvepalli Gopal met President Kennedy in the US. Kennedy broached the topic of the US having a base in India for surveillance activities against China. This was a few months before Kennedy was assassinated. This was relayed to Nehru who consulted with Biju Patnaik the Odisha strongman and then CM. Patnaik had helped to wrest Indonesia from the Dutch by helping the guerillas which is another story. Patnaik was a strong supporter of the CIA and the US and pushed very hard for Nehru to agree to this. Patnaik was himself an aviator and pilot, possibly the only CM in India's history who was a trained pilot.

A base was selected and the choice was hardly surprising, Charbatia about 12km north of Cuttack in Odisha. It was a derelict airfield by then having being used in WW2 by both the RAF and the US military for its long range missions over China and even with the advent of the B-29 for missions over Japan. The base was in poor shape by 1963 and it took longer than expected to repair the runways and erect housing for aircrew and so on.

After that the US which means the CIA based their best spy plane at that time the high flying U2 at Charbatia. The first mission out of Charbatia by the CIA was in May 1964. The CIA also supplied training and equipment to IB officers and IAF crew for a fleet of American transport planes and light planes to help support Tibetan guerillas and in particular the Khampa sect of Tibetans who were known for their anti-Communism and part of the Dalai Lama's security. This morphed into the ARC(Aviation Research Centre) which is part of RAW today and still based at Charbatia even to this day.

There was another CIA recce base in Thailand which together with Charbatia was tasked to gather intelligence on China and particularly in Tibet, data from which helped shape Cold War US policy towards China till the Nixon detente. Patnaik did not just stop there. He was crucial in establishing Establishment 22 for training Khampa's and Tibetan guerrillas. In this he was aided by BN Mullick who was the IB chief. Patnaik and Mullick even met the Dalai Lama for it was important to get his approval. To this end, Patnaik persuaded the Dalai Lama to send his brother Gyalo Thondup to Kalimpong to persuade Tibetan youth to join the guerilla force that India was training. This is the origin of the SFF. Establishment 22 was known as the "two-twos" in the IA parlance.
Some of the training for these guerillas, especially those that IA had recognized had leadership potential was done in a camp near Aspen, Colorado where they were given weapons training, fighting in the snow and also classes were conducted in world history and so on. Remnants of this camp still existed till modern times. The CIA establishment at Charbatia remarkably still operated though India(and Pakistan) was placed under military sanctions post the 1965 India-Pakistan conflict though food aid to India continued under PL-480. But by early 1969 the writing on the wall was clear as Nixon had come to power and the base was wound down since Nixon had already decided on detente with China.
Force 22 is still in existence and headquartered in Chakrata(Uttarakhand) and this force also took part in operations at the time of Galwan with KIA.

The IAF in recent times recognized the role of Charbatia and wanted to upgrade the airfield and facilities and base C130Js from here, but I believe this plan has fallen through.

PS: Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan was a moron and a dullard in his youth and his family despaired of him. His uncle Narasimham was a saintly person who lived in Vellore and took his nephew under his wing. Narasimham earned his living teaching Telugu and Tamil to British officers in Vellore. Narsimham was also a great devotee of Bhagwan Ramana Maharshi and Bhagawan in turn loved him dearly. It is this Narsimham who brought to Bhagawan the British police officer FH Humphreys reputed to be the first western disciple of Ramana Bhagwan in 1918 if I recall correctly. Narasimham taught the boy Sanskrit and also gave him the deeksha of the Taraka mantra to illumine the boy's mind. So it is said the boy's mind opened up. None of this is written in Sarvepalli Gopal's biography of his father but in other sources. What is written in the biography is that Radhakrishnan once gave a lecture in Kolkata on Advaita with his current paramour sitting in the first row. This is the man we revere on Teacher's day which is his birthday. What is known is that the uncle adopted the name of Swami Pranavananda. Telugu speakers should be grateful to him. It was Pranavananada who first translated Bhagavan's Who am I?, Vicharasangraham, Vivēkacūḍāmaṇi and Devikalottaram into Telugu. He passed away in 1969 and his mortal remains were enshrined on the banks of the Palar river near Vellore.

[ernest]

He is not an exec. OK let me give the name. He is Narendra Karmarkar. He did not give up his Indian citizenship and returned to India. He was being paid quite handsomely at Bell Labs, worked as visiting Associate professor at MIT just to see whether he should accept a position there. He decided against joining MIT and returned to India. Was at to TIFR/Pune University/CDAC.

Amazed to hear that he returned to India. And sad that even this modest remuneration is not digestible to folks who have contributed far less in the government. Just having him around will spawn such inspiration in students that will created unlimited education impacts. How short term planning our govt apparatus has made us.

If we are so slow in attracting a willing expert in the field, US will continue to corner them. He can command any high salary he wishes, given the unimaginable economic benefits that his work has brought. Companies like Amazon (whose RnD budget will shame a country like India) would roll out their red carpet for him. I have worked with a professor from the same field, and can really vouch for Amazon rolling out red carpets for folks like him.

[sanman]

The West Is Pushing India Into the Russia-China Axis

[Vayutuvan]

Amazed to hear that he returned to India.

Agree with all you wrote. He did return to India long ago circa 1995. I know him well enough. Very nationalistic. He has a few personality issues though. We can take it to Indian Education dhaga. It is important to discuss these aspects of the Indian Defense/Civil research burocracy.

@cyrano gaaru, I do not disagree with you in general re. the gold digging mindset. Karmarkar's case is a little special. There are others who also want to return. Since you are very mature and level headed person, I think discussing this issue further in the Edu thread would be useful for a large number of lurkers in BRF. I am hoping that there are a number of people in BRF who can guide the policymakers and the powers that be in India.

[Cyrano]

Vayutuvan garu,
You are too kind. As you wish in the appropriate thread.

[vijayk]

[chetak]

Trump’s statement on Hindus is going to resonate with the community in a big way.

He says he will “protect Hindu Americans from the radical left” and strengthen the USA’s ties with India and PM Modi.

With all that’s happened, from Bangladesh to Canada, the optics are not good for the Biden-Harris administration.

[chetak]

e**ing idiot


garshitti dancing, his latest jarring performance


WATCH VIDEO


It's a 58 second video

[Cyrano]

Does this pretentious idiot know what "Tauba tauba" means? It means asking forgiveness from Ola presumably for having committed haraam acts.

Just because its set to a bhangra beat doesn't make this eve teasing song appropriate for Diwali.

[Cyrano]

Meanwhile 19 indian companies have been sanctioned for supplying prohibited list of items like electronic components etc to Russia.

https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... s-9647482/

[sanman]

US Sanctions Indian Companies for Selling Tech to Russia