Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

[sanjayc]

There is a reason why large illegal settlements of Muslims are found alongside railway tracks and highways. Will be activated during war. (The same reason why hill states like Uttarakhand are being settled by Muslim migration -- army will find it impossible to reach the border through narrow hill roads once thousands of Yahoos sit on them).

[S_Madhukar]

One can easily find YT videos on military trains where tanks and equipment is being moved around. Must check settlements on these routes too. While some of these are ordinary enthusiasts these are useful for the BIF

[rrao]

There is a reason why large illegal settlements of Muslims are found alongside railway tracks and highways. Will be activated during war. (The same reason why hill states like Uttarakhand are being settled by Muslim migration -- army will find it impossible to reach the border through narrow hill roads once thousands of Yahoos sit on them).

Besides the railway track near Delhi , hundreds of illegal hutments have come out and mostly occupied by BDs and locals. Children will be playing on the tracks unmindful of the incoming train. loco pilots are harassed so much, that they slow down the trains near these areas. The trains are pelted with stones. nobody got vacated them, as they are under protection by local leaders.

[Sachin]

In this case an Army special train was the target o derailment using detonators no less

Minor nitpick . "Detonators" used in IR are not dangerous. They are small explosives meant to be placed on tracks to warn an oncoming train. As soon as the loco goes over it, it blasts with a loud noise. And that is a warning message to the driver too slow down and watch out for obstacles. In fact, engine drivers & guards of every train has to carry a few of these in their "duty box". So if this was used (as a tool for sabotage), it may be prudent to have a word with IR staff itself. They would be the folks who have easy access to such detonators.

[chetak]

There is a reason why large illegal settlements of Muslims are found alongside railway tracks and highways. Will be activated during war. (The same reason why hill states like Uttarakhand are being settled by Muslim migration -- army will find it impossible to reach the border through narrow hill roads once thousands of Yahoos sit on them).

sanjayc ji,


these are choke points.

Same reason they now control and dominate small and obscure hotels with 10-15 rooms, autos and taxis, interstate busses and trucks, cell phone shops that gives them a steady access to aadhaar cards, pan cards, addresses and easy access to any amount of sim cards, dhabas and restaurants on all state and national highways, including thousands upon thousands of madrasas able to shelter, protect, and feed jihadi human traffic and such facilities are available across the country ....


These were facilitated and encouraged by the congis, and have by now, already reached a self sustaining mass, while providing employment and such entities are operating in a self propagating mode

That keeps them with their jihadi fingers on the pulse, to mobilize at very short notice and they have deviously tapped into the very heart of the social, economic, and security ecosystems

[vsunder]

Somehow I was under the impression that the freighter stopped before hitting the cement blocks on the WDFC. Not true ^^^ did hit it, but fortunately there was no derailment. Here is the pole across the tracks in Uttarakhand I mentioned above:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 494110.cms

[vsunder]

Progress Report on the Bhanupali---Bilaspur--Beri--Leh Strategic Railway Line


Not much has been heard in the news about the Bilaspur--Bhanupali--Beri railway line and onwards to Leh itself a challenging project with the line climbing to 17,500 feet over the Greater Himalayas. The line will reach 17,500 feet at Tanglangla Pass. Two things have happened. First, the DPR has been submitted for the line to Leh, though the government has yet to take a call to build it to Leh. The total length of the line is about 500km.


Second, the start of the line, Phase 0, in Punjab partly and the rest in Himachal Pradesh, Bhanupali---Bilaspur--Beri has seen progress with a breakthrough on tunnel 14 a few days ago. 16 tunnels are to be constructed on this part. 13/16 are done, Tunnel Number 14 is the longest at 2.2km in Phase 0. Phase 0 is 63km. Phase 1 of this line to Mandi is also apparently under construction. Beyond Mandi, the line passes through Manali and then onward to Leh.


Leh to Pathankot line has been scrapped after traffic surveys.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cit ... 612669.cms


https://www.psuconnect.in/news/rvnl-ach ... ject/44238


PS: Another derailment today of freight from Bokaro carrying steel products:

https://www.lokmattimes.com/national/jh ... ideo-a505/

[Rakesh]

Vande Bharat on the shopping list of several foreign buyers, railways focus on speed and security
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 927214035/
27 Sept 2024

[saip]

Progress Report on the Bhanupali---Bilaspur--Beri--Leh Strategic Railway Line

Not much has been heard in the news about the Bilaspur--Bhanupali--Beri railway line and onwards to Leh itself a challenging project with the line climbing to 17,500 feet over the Greater Himalayas. The line will reach 17,500 feet at Tanglangla Pass. Two things have happened. First, the DPR has been submitted for the line to Leh, though the government has yet to take a call to build it to Leh. The total length of the line is about 500km.

17,500 feet? That is pretty serious elevation. If it is a passenger train it would probably need sealed pressurized compartments with emergency oxygen supplies. Generally civilian airlines travel at 8000' (that is they are pressurized to that level even though they may fly at over 35k) except the newer ones which are pressurized to 6000'. AFAIK only China operates trains at those altitudes. Their train to Lhasa reaches 18700' at its highest point.

[Suraj]

Airplanes travel at over 30000' . 8-9000 would be the figure in meters. But yes an elevation of 5000m+ is serious altitude sickness potential .

[saip]

When we went to Machu Pichu (8500') we stayed in Cusco (11100') for couple of nights to acclimatize. My wife had problems even walking for short distances there. Suraj, what I meant was airliner cabins are pressurized to 8000'. The newer ones (Dreamliner etc) are pressurized to 6000'.

[JTull]

Here's a 2018 report on the same line with a NR official talking about pressurised coaches.

Railways plans aircraft-like pressurised coaches for world's highest railway track in Leh

[vsunder]

Yes it was already known that the coaches will be pressurized. Till before the pandemic my family took hikes in the Himalayas of about 80km almost 80% of it above 11,000 feet. Even going up to Camp 2, at many of the Gangotri group of peaks. Valley of flowers is for example a 23 km hike to Ghangharia from Govindghat on the Joshimath to Badrinath road. The valley of flowers is then a further 5 km that is a very steep climb to 12,000 feet beyond Ghangharia. Hemkund is 14,000 feet and 7 km beyond Ghangharia involving a steep hike and crossing a glacier. Hemkund is holy to Sikhs and there is a gurudwara here by the side of a lake. Beyond lies the remote and beautiful Mana pass and Satopant glacier and Swargarohini peak from where Yudhistira left for heaven. Seen all of this with family.

Here the engineering challenge is not pressurized coaches, but building a line through terrain classified as seismic zone 4 and the highest seismic zone 5, which will trigger massive avalanches and tunnel cave ins. The Himalayas are also young and mainly sedimentary rocks that pose tremendous challenges even in the absence of earthquakes during the construction phase as tunnel stabilization becomes paramount. Recall the recent cave in near Yamunotri when an Australian had to be brought in to rescue the trapped tunnel workers. That was in the lower Himalayas. I know that area too well near Barkot. The line to Leh will be 10 times worse.

[Amber G.]

Thanks all for these informative posts!

High-altitude railway trains operate in extremely challenging conditions, facing harsh weather, steep gradients, and unique engineering requirements... Wow! The new Vande Bharat train.. planned to operate at an astonishing altitude of 17,000 feet or above, making it one of the highest railway lines in the world.

For perspective , checked some well known Highest Railways in the world:

Qingzang Railway in China, reaching 16,640 feet above sea levelc
Rio Mulatos-Potosí Line in Bolivia, with an elevation of 15,702 feet ²
Ferrovías Central in Peru, reaching 15,692 feet
Pikes Peak Cog Railway in the US, with an elevation of 14,114 feet ..
Gornergrat Railway in Switzerland, reaching 10,135 feet ..

This project will be an incredible feat of engineering.
Thanks again.

[vsunder]

Another derailment attempt last night. A whole load of soil dumped on the tracks at Rae Bareli. Loco pilot of train 05251 saw it and stopped the train and averted an accident. Encroachment along tracks has been addressed by Yogi at Kanpur by demolishment of structures.

[vsunder]

Another derailment on SR, Mysore-Darbangha express. Passenger train got permission to go on the mainline. Instead it got diverted to the loop line at 75kmph and rammed a stationary freight. Happened at Kavaraipettai. RaGa and other opposition leaders are making noise. Kavaraipettai is 40km north of Chennai on the Grand Trunk route, Chennai to Delhi.


https://www.suryaa.com/156782-southern- ... e_vignette

[Supratik]

It is necessary for the railways to demolish the slums and ghettos all along encroached land near railway tracks.

[Zynda]

The recent derailment near Chennai has been now confirmed as sabotage. Apparently, the nuts & bolts were removed on the main line which led the train to veer off into the loop line and collide with the stationary goods train. GoI must issue a statement saying that any body calling for sabotage of critical infrastructure which could lead to loss of lives will be treated as an accomplice & will be charged accordingly. Go after a few people & make sure they get convicted (our courts thinking like "every sinner has a future" is a different subject). Make example of a few people. Free speech isn't without consequences.

[Atmavik]

Vande cargo is in the works. hope it is not some mc kinzie ppt project.

looks to address the temperature control market and will run on DFC. i think this will be very important if it works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPweLnmLFcQ&t=300s

[ernest]

Vande cargo is in the works. hope it is not some mc kinzie ppt project.

looks to address the temperature control market and will run on DFC. i think this will be very important if it works

much needed component that was missing in our logistics network.

Hope there are versions with wider side loading openings, larger than that was visible in the video. I wonder if we are are working towards more automated loading for goods. The pics from covid special trains show how manpower dependent we are, with humans loading through the narrow entrance. Frankly, it looks like we were not even trying. The new designs should keep in mind the logistics hubs being planned under Gati Shakti, and be easily modifiable for expanded automation in the future.

I would love to see robotic forklifts loading and unloading from Vande Cargo at one of the new gen logistics depots.

[SSridhar]

The recent derailment near Chennai has been now confirmed as sabotage. . . . Make example of a few people.

This is mass murder and/or attempted mass murder. In many countries murder has mandatory death sentence. The Bharatiya Nyaya Sanhita must have such a provision for sabotages of this nature.

[sanjayc]

The main problem in India is excessively lenient laws. On top of that, judges have developed this fetish of "Bail is the rule, jail is an exception." The result is that law has ceased to be a deterrent for anyone.

[rajkumar]

Western Dedicated Freight Corridor Maharashtra Update | Panvel Bhiwandi |



Painfully slow progress

[drnayar]

one thinks the tool kit gang and con gress pappu and co are in full flow , targeting train tracks and bomb threats to airlines.. there is a plot going on for sure

[Atmavik]

https://www.business-standard.com/econo ... 701_1.html

Freight corridors driving equitable economic growth across India: Study

[VinodTK]

India approves $1.05bn rail network expansion to boost connectivity

The Indian government has announced a 375km rail network expansion, aimed at enhancing economic growth and connectivity in North Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh, and Uttar Pradesh.
:
:
:
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[rajkumar]

Very good route capacity augmentation



3 rail projects to reduce congestion on the busiest sections between Mumbai and Prayagraj

[Suraj]

Great video on Chinese high speed rail and its dependency on critical foreign technologies:

Indian industrialization will be compelled to follow the same approaches China has taken - borrow, steal, or otherwise get hold of technologies that no one will share.

[Supratik]

Observations on Vande Bharat Express. I first travelled on VB 3 yrs back NJP to Howrah. It looked like Hema Malini in her 20s. I recently travelled on VB Chandigarh to Delhi. VB now looks like Hema Malini in her 70s. Both were blue-white color. Clearly while it is a good first effort it is not upto world standards yet. It will require 1 or 2 more iterations or entirely new design to be on par with European trains. I don't think IR will be able to do it although the govt is pushing for it. They just do not have the experience and expertise to do it. IMO collaboration with companies like Alstom is required. The RRTS trains by contrast are world class. Specific problems are modular panels used do not blend and are coming off at different places. The train looks tired may be due to material used. Dust problem in India is also taking a toll which is partly mitigated by moving to black-orange color.
Train does not have problem in locomotion but in look and feel.

[S_Madhukar]

I was hoping they would involve someone like BEML for further iterations. They already make metro rakes. Silos abound

[chetak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntHJPoUuc3Q


VANDE BHARAT SLEEPER COACHES

[ritesh]

It is a very strange situation wherein there is.no dedicated cabinet rank Rail minister available for a long time. Such an important portfolio, and the work undertaken by it happens in such a snail pace even tortoise would even beat it.

Don't know, why can't things happen at minimum 2X speeds?
Undue focus seems to be on big name vanity projects, while run of the mill things keep getting delayed and at the mercy of various Zones.

All capex should be centralised and only opex shd be left to zones, else this lethargy would continue and it will take ages to complete even simple tasks.

[sgundapa]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 547553.cms

New Delhi: Indian Railways is set to bolster its connectivity to Kashmir with the likely launch of two new trains next month.

The first is a centrally heated sleeper train, not a Vande Bharat as previously speculated, that will ply between New Delhi and Srinagar. Designed for a 13- hour journey, part of which traverses snow-capped mountain landscapes and crosses the iconic 359-m-high Chenab Bridge, the train promises enhanced comfort but will not include second-class sleeper accommodations, ET has learnt.

The second train is an eight-coach Vande Bharat, featuring chair car seating, tailored for the shorter Katra-Baramulla route, according to a senior railway officer familiar with the plan.

This train too includes specialised features, such as silicon heating pads for water tanks to prevent freezing and toilets equipped with warm air, courtesy of specially designed ducts.

The front glass for the loco pilots has been specially designed with embedded heating elements — a first for Indian Railways — to ensure it remains defrosted in sub-zero temperatures, the official said. This Vande Bharat service will drastically reduce travel time, completing the 246-km journey between Katra and Baramulla in just three-and-a-half hours, compared to over 10 hours by bus.

On the rail route, Baramulla is 57 km beyond Srinagar.

Katra, the gateway to the revered Mata Vaishno Devi shrine, is a major pilgrim hub and is currently connected to New Delhi by a 16-coach Vande Bharat Express operating six days a week.

“Once the Katra-Baramulla Vande Bharat becomes operational, likely by late next month, passengers will be able to seamlessly journey from New Delhi to Katra in our existing Vande Bharat and then transfer to the new service to reach Srinagar or Baramulla,” the official said.

[Zynda]

SWR had conducted Whitefield-Jolerpettai 130 Kph speed increase trials back in 2023 or early 2024. Apparently, railways refused to certify many segments for 130 speeds. So the time saved due to increase in speed was negligible. SWR decided to rectify issues found and another round of speed trials were conducted a couple of weeks ago. The max speed achieved was 143 Kph (130 + 10%). SWR is confident of railways approving speed increase this time. In fact, SWR has put out articles saying that increase in speeds will reduce travel time up to 25 minutes for trains like Shatabdi & Vande Bharat. So hoping we can experience 130 speeds starting 2025.

SWR is also targeting speed increase in other important lines going through Karnataka.

Hopefully next year, we can see operation of Mumbai - Delhi 160kph speeds.

Currently, I believe even the Bhophal Shatabdi which was achieving 160 for a short segment is now back to 130. Perhaps, railways is waiting for Kavach 4.0 to be implemented before attempting to increase speeds.

[Zynda]

I saw videos on Twitter about the new Cuttack railway station which looks like an airport. I remember a similar vibe when Bengaluru's satellite terminate SVMT was opened around 5 years ago. In fact the terminal station was modeled to look like Bengaluru airport. I have not been to the station to verify, but there were reports the station now has lost its sheen and is ill maintained. Pan stains on walls, garbage thrown around. Maintenance of cleanliness is a big issue in India. Perhaps, maintenance of stations (at least major metro ones) should be outsourced to private players?

[vsunder]

@Zynda

Its true that SMVT terminal is paan stained and dirty. It has created a big issue on the Internet. Kannadigas are making unseemly comments that this is due to Biharis and Up Bhaiyyas who are "subhuman" and pay zero taxes while Karnataka contributes much more and these individuals are destroying Karnataka. Forums on infra are full of these comments like Karnataka Railways Skyscrapercity. A large number of forumites there point out that trains to Bihra and UP start at SMVT and the facilities are wasted on these "animals". That is the level of discourse. It also fed in to the Lok Sabha elections with an upsurge that Modi is not doing anything for Karnataka railways while favoring routes and upgrade of rolling stock for trains in North India as well as upping speeds on trains in North India. If you have the stomach for all this you can see the bile there.

Regarding the routes you point out. The Bangalore Cantt to Bypannahalli quadrupling is taking forever. Land I agree is a problem but SWR is run by idiots, here too the Kannadiga crowd will say "why is SWR run by UP Bhaiyyas who have no interest in Karnataka and so implement slowly"? My own feeling is that Arakonam to Jolarpet should be quadrupled with freight segregated from passenger trains. Likewise Jolarpet to Baipannahalli should be tripled and better gradients used as the route is not conducive currently to increase speeds. Lastly introduce Automatic signalling all the way from Bangalore to Chennai with in cab signalling which Kavach should eventually do. Automatic signalling will allow trains to be packed closer within 2km of each other and does away with absolute blocks and so line capacity and speeds also increase. However on sections with advertised speeds of 130kmph, trains are still being run at 110 kmph, both on the Delhi to Bhopal route and Chennai to Vijayawada. There have been several reports of people measuring speed on these routes and realizing that there has not been any significant increase in average speed. So the current government is using cheap gimmicks to create an illusion that speeds have increased.

Over the pandemic they straightened the S curve in Jolarpet yard to a C incrasing through speeds through the yard for non-stopping trains to 110 kmph. Then there is a huge curve after Jolarpet outer towards Bangalore almost 180 degrees. The best way is to build a new bypass line that totally avoids busy Jolarpet yard and on which trains can maintain 130kmph and eliminate the 180 degree curve. LA in TN is an issue.

Fare rationalization is a problem that IR suffers from. The government will do nothing about it as if it did, it will lose UP elections, lets face it, long distance train travel in India is largely from NE stats and Bihar and UP towards South India for employment. Increasing the fare and providing better coaches and services will backfire on the government and they will lose elections.

Both Yeshvantpur and Bangalore Cantt. were to undergo major facelifts. I am not sure where these stand at the moment. The line Baipannahalli to Hosur is being doubled and will benefit commuters to Electronics city and this has been moving at a snails pace. So too is doubling the Hebbal line as part of K Ride and Bangalore commuter railway. All victims of politics and inept and clueless governments both BJP and Congress. There is no enforcement mechanism and no synergy between Center and State and it makes no difference if the governments at the Center and State are the same.

In a sense MH and UP are the two states doing a lot for infra in comparison to other state governments with multiple projects approaching completion this year and within the next 2-3 years.
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The Western DFC is still not complete and the Vaitarna to JNPT section of 125km languishes under Tata Construction. That organization should be split 5 ways. Its a behemoth doing too many things and not doing well. It has made a mess of Air India which was better run under the government. It does Tea, Cosmetics, this that and another and is distracted by doing Jewar airport, the Parliament building and WDFC and has prioritized WDFC to be at the bottom. Deadlines come and go and nothing moves. Now the latest deadline is Dec 2025 for completion of the Vaitarna to JNPT 125km section. Given the slow pace of work and large sections where earthwork has barely been started and the complete halt of work that happens during monsoons in the Mumbai area, this new deadline is pie in the sky. Sometimes I feel that the Modi government is losing its mojo and looking tired and distracted.
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In a setback to the Railways, the showcase project of building a new bridge connecting Rameswaram and the mainland to replace a 100+ year old bridge long in the tooth and unsafe, has had a setback. The bridge was to be a vertical lift bridge with the spans in the center to be raisd vertically to allow large boats to pass underneath the bridge. This was a novel design and touted as such. The design was by a Spanish engineering company with RVNL the implementing organization. In a rare occurrence, the CRS has failed the bridge. The CRS report is damning. Why was construction allowed to proceed so that ir reached this conclusion for the Pamban bridge? Would not RVNL know about RDSO standards and taken corrective action earlier? They built the bridge and when they proceed for CRS approval for commercial use, it is found not meeting standards by the Commissioner of Railway Safety.

The Anji Khad bridge in J&K trials are going on. Hope it clears CRS unlike the Pamban bridge which was also a showcase project for the IR and the current Government.

[bala]

This report claims India's Rail Electrification Hits 97% at the end of 2024. Only 2199 km remain for electrification out of the total 66343 railway route km. Pretty impressive, now on towards 100% electrification.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU99sjY5ULY

India has achieved a significant milestone with 97% of its rail network now electrified. This achievement is a major step towards reducing dependency on fossil fuels and promoting environmentally friendly transport solutions. Electrification will not only enhance the efficiency of train operations but also contribute to reducing carbon emissions, aligning with the country's sustainable development goals. The completion of this project is expected to improve speed, reduce costs, and further modernize India’s railway infrastructure.

India’s First Cable-Stayed Railway Bridge, Anji Bridge, Successfully Completes Load Testing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UidyP6KD_xA

[Zynda]

@vsunder saar, congestion is apparently a major issue on IR networks forcing speeds reduction. Apparently, all trains (including Gatiman Exp which used to run at 160 kph for a short distance) speeds have been reduced to 130 kph and like you have probably mentioned, networks where 130 speeds have been "cleared", actual operational speeds might be restricted to 110. Too many trains on an antiquated signal system forcing speed reduction. Yep, I've read that "increased" operational speeds have not made any significant differences in running times.

SBC-MAS is among the routes marked for 160 kph operational speeds by 2030 (I am totally not confident of IR meeting the deadline). I think what you have proposed could happen as part of that work package...major realignment of tracks, more tracks, signal system upgrade, Kavach & straightening of curves to support higher speeds. I believe a tender is out for Auto signaling between Bangalore-Bangarpet or JTJ.

I am happy that after a long time, we are thinking about going beyond nominal 110 kph but again IR being a babu organization will take its own sweet time in execution...hope the constant push from GoI continues.

I lurk on SSC forums...in any case, cleanliness maintenance in station has to be implemented & enforced if required. IR stations cleanliness have improved from what it was 10-15 years ago but no use of building fancy stations which look good during inaugurations and fall in to previous standards few years down the line. Of course, support from IR side has to be provided like more trash cans which are cleared regularly.

The VB sleeper trains recently got tested up to 180 kph...IIRC, per some of the presentations made by our Railways Ministers, VB 3.0 (sleeper) was supposed to be capable of 220 kph...I'm assuming that these sets meet the design requirements and testing speeds will gradually be increased to 200 & 220 (10% of 200 kph).

[Supratik]

Now that several railway stations are undergoing redevelopment IR should consider building Aerocity like complexes at least near the major railway stations. They can have hotels, malls, etc. Especially in big cities.

[Suraj]

Actually the concept of multi use real estate surrounding stations should be pervasive , more so around metro stations . Follow the Japan model here .