Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF): News & Discussion

[basant]

IN has as good pilots, some might argue, even better than what IAF has. Cmde Balaji in fact headed ADA. It does not need to look to IAF for evaluation of aircraft.

[Manish_P]

IN has as good pilots, some might argue, even better than what IAF has. Cmde Balaji in fact headed ADA. It does not need to look to IAF for evaluation of aircraft.

Wasn't there some news about the GoI creating a single organisation for evaluation and testing of all fixed wing and rotor aircraft for the military?

[basant]

ASTE?

ASTE is a premier establishment in Indian Air Force (IAF) which conducts flight testing of aircraft, airborne systems and weapon stores prior to their induction into the Indian Air Force (IAF). Additionally, ASTE undertakes flight testing of airborne systems designed and developed by agencies such as DRDO for IAF.

AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS TESTING ESTABLISHMENT

IN has Naval Flight Test Squadron (NFTS)

[Manish_P]

ASTE?

ASTE is a premier establishment in Indian Air Force (IAF) which conducts flight testing of aircraft, airborne systems and weapon stores prior to their induction into the Indian Air Force (IAF). Additionally, ASTE undertakes flight testing of airborne systems designed and developed by agencies such as DRDO for IAF.

AIRCRAFT AND SYSTEMS TESTING ESTABLISHMENT

IN has Naval Flight Test Squadron (NFTS)

NATE - National Aerospace Testing Establishment

https://defence.in/threads/india-explor ... ent.10680/

[basant]

So, it is currently only a proposal of IAF?

[Rakesh]

So, it is currently only a proposal of IAF?

yes

[Manish_P]

Channeling Humphrey Appleby I would say it is a sly attempt by the IAF to be the major voice in all the testing and evaluation... which will be opposed by the other services.

And so it is better that the minister responds by saying that the proposal is under consideration and if the IAF is persistent, to assure them that it is under active consideration

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1864323479065039222 ---> Indian Navy is fully committed to TEDBF and plan to operationalise them by 2035: Navy Chief.

After reading the above, please click on the following twitter thread ---> https://x.com/Indrani1_Roy/status/1863626311929074100

[nash]

If report is true, 145 come down to 87. I hope at certain future IAF show some sense and involve in this project.

As India & France get ready to sign 7-bn Euro deal for Rafale Marine, 87 TEDBFs emerge in shadow
https://theprint.in/defence/as-india-fr ... w/2388615/
05 Dec 2024

As India & France get ready to sign 7-bn Euro deal for Rafale Marine, 87 TEDBFs emerge in shadow. Navy initially gave proposal for 145 twin-engine fighters, basing requirement on 3-carrier force, but planners believe the force should go for 2 aircraft carriers as of now.

[Rakesh]

Thank you for posting this nash. I have not seen a report of 145 TEDBFs to date. This is news to me.

Other relevant portions of the article that I would like to highlight...

The sources said, France would be obligated under contract to deliver the first Rafale Marine aircraft in 37 months from the date of signing the deal.

There were many who were claiming that because of the large order book, Dassault will be unable to deliver aircraft in a reasonable time frame i.e. 36 months (or 3 years) is the industry standard to deliver fighter aircraft. So the above timeline is right on the money. It remains to be seen if Dassault will actually deliver the first batch within that time frame. If the deal is signed in Feb 2025, the first aircraft should arrive by March 2028.

They explained the contract would also have a clause whereby within 18 months, manufacturer Dassault Aviation will showcase a Rafale Marine with the modifications the Indian Navy wanted.

This is interesting. Hopefully more clarity on the modifications in the future.

[SRajesh]

Rakesh
Can I ask a question then??
I know a lot of forumites will have my guts for garters!!
So until Rafale M comes in what is Vikrama.. and Vikrant II doing
Floating Target practiice range for all and sundry to try out practice runs!!!
Half the time Mig 29's are either not serviceable or if servicable underpowered and unable to carry full cargo!!
Why oh Why oh why oh Why??? we keeping paying money for toys that look brilliant on a Colour Foto!!!

[basant]

Gorshkov was offered as part of a package deal with the MiG-29K.

[A Deshmukh]

Gorshkov/Vikramaditya is currently under maintenance.
So, we have only 1 active carrier at this time. We have enough Mig-29Ks for now.
If RafaleM starts delivery within 3 yrs thats very good. TEDBF will take much longer timeframe.

Would Rafale be manufacturing in India? It will be difficult to achieve in 3years.
If not, then MMRCA contract looks difficult for Rafale.
We could be going with few squadrons of Su-57s. maybe HAL assembled like Su30s.

First Rafale contract has offset clauses that required help on Kaveri.
Not clear if French delivered satisfactorily on that.
Kaveri seems to be making progress without Safran (afterburner from Brahmos).

[Kartik]

Thank you for posting this nash. I have not seen a report of 145 TEDBFs to date. This is news to me.

Other relevant portions of the article that I would like to highlight...

The sources said, France would be obligated under contract to deliver the first Rafale Marine aircraft in 37 months from the date of signing the deal.

There were many who were claiming that because of the large order book, Dassault will be unable to deliver aircraft in a reasonable time frame i.e. 36 months (or 3 years) is the industry standard to deliver fighter aircraft. So the above timeline is right on the money. It remains to be seen if Dassault will actually deliver the first batch within that time frame. If the deal is signed in Feb 2025, the first aircraft should arrive by March 2028.

They explained the contract would also have a clause whereby within 18 months, manufacturer Dassault Aviation will showcase a Rafale Marine with the modifications the Indian Navy wanted.

This is interesting. Hopefully more clarity on the modifications in the future.

This is exactly what I was telling those like Alpha Defense and others who were saying that due to Dassault's large backlog, the Navy's Rafales couldn't be delivered till 2030 or so. I was insisting that if a company takes on an order it is their obligation to deliver on time or else penalties would be in order.

There are slots allocated to customers based on when they place their orders. Exports having priority over domestic orders in general will most likely mean that the French Air Force's Rafale slots will be allocated to the IN. Long lead items like the heavy forgings will be ordered upto 36 months in advance based on the production slots.

So my guess is - the IN will first receive 4 Rafale D fighters for training purposes. Those can go onto the assembly line earlier given their long lead items would've been ordered. The 22 Rafale M fighters will follow after that, with nearly 80% commonality of parts with the Rafale C.

[Aditya_V]

Sir contracts while good like GE404, INS Vikram Aditya deals are not worth the paper they are written on, unless there is an alternative, so contract for supply of grains , penalty can be imposed, it can hardly be done with fighter Aircraft since we would need to run our Rafale's till the 2050's.
While there is a lot of myth, including most Western defense suppliers have always supplied with delays with respect to critical technology.

[Cyrano]

^^^agree. Dassault will commit to any "industry standard" timelines to sign the deal. Then they will gain 6-12 months in some pilot training plan on their CDG carrier. Then come India specific enhancements their specifications, Dev, testing and acceptance on 1 or 2 birds. This can get them another 12-36 months depending on what those enhancements are.

Not trivialising but this is the same game IT cos play with clients. And there's more and more SW in these planes.

All that said, how many other signed clients/contracts being negotiated does Dassault currently have for Rafale M? My guess is none. So M specific component or subsystems mfg like undercarriage etc may not be on the critical path. Given the very high degree of commonality between Rafale variants, almost everything else including M88 engines, fuselage , avionics ityadi and final assembly, integration will be on critical path between competing orders.

Unless Dassault comes up with another assembly line I find it hard to believe they will deliver on time to IN just because they signed on the dotted line. Penalities can't create miracles.

[Rakesh]

Rakesh
Can I ask a question then??
I know a lot of forumites will have my guts for garters!!
So until Rafale M comes in what is Vikrama.. and Vikrant II doing
Floating Target practiice range for all and sundry to try out practice runs!!!
Half the time Mig 29's are either not serviceable or if servicable underpowered and unable to carry full cargo!!
Why oh Why oh why oh Why??? we keeping paying money for toys that look brilliant on a Colour Foto!!!

INS Vikrant will operate the MiG-29K/KUB till the first batch of Rafale Ms arrive.

INS Vikramaditya is presently undergoing a short refit ---> viewtopic.php?p=2635006#p2635006
When her refit is complete, she too will operate the MiG-29K/KUB. She will not operate the Rafale M.

The IN has to soldier on with the MiG-29 fleet, till the Rafale Ms arrive. No other choice.

[Rakesh]

This is exactly what I was telling those like Alpha Defense and others who were saying that due to Dassault's large backlog, the Navy's Rafales couldn't be delivered till 2030 or so. I was insisting that if a company takes on an order it is their obligation to deliver on time or else penalties would be in order.

There are slots allocated to customers based on when they place their orders. Exports having priority over domestic orders in general will most likely mean that the French Air Force's Rafale slots will be allocated to the IN. Long lead items like the heavy forgings will be ordered upto 36 months in advance based on the production slots.

So my guess is - the IN will first receive 4 Rafale D fighters for training purposes. Those can go onto the assembly line earlier given their long lead items would've been ordered. The 22 Rafale M fighters will follow after that, with nearly 80% commonality of parts with the Rafale C.

There is a dangerous trend on social media with regards to Atmanirbhar Bharat. And Alpha Defence leads the pack in that trend.

His recent claims on the Rafale (saw your back-and-forth with him on Twitter....good job!) were laughable. Now he is back peddling.

See his tweet in regards to the news article about the "proposed" Rafale M deliveries to India.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1864891987280957703 ---> 26 Rafale for 7 billion Euros will leave a significant dent on Navy’s CAPEX. Are we paying for infra in France to boost the production rate?

All of a sudden AD got the above gem of an idea!!

There is also a visceral hatred for anything French, that I have not seen even with regards to American/Russian maal.

[Kartik]

There is a dangerous trend on social media with regards to Atmanirbhar Bharat. And Alpha Defence leads the pack in that trend.

His recent claims on the Rafale (saw your back-and-forth with him on Twitter....good job!) were laughable. Now he is back peddling.

See his tweet in regards to the news article about the "proposed" Rafale M deliveries to India.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1864891987280957703 ---> 26 Rafale for 7 billion Euros will leave a significant dent on Navy’s CAPEX. Are we paying for infra in France to boost the production rate?

All of a sudden AD got the above gem of an idea!!

There is also a visceral hatred for anything French, that I have not seen even with regards to American/Russian maal.

Laughable and dangerous! In the situation that the IAF finds itself in, with literally no inductions happening in the last 2 years and retirements of nearly 5 to 8 squadrons of Bisons and Jaguar DARIN 1 and 2s within the next 5 to 8 years, such targeting of a fighter that is the most modern in the IAF was absolutely ridiculous. I found it akin the political poisoning of the Rafale by Rahul Gandhi- deliberate targeting on the basis of very poor research and a complete disregard for national security.

He was going on and on about how not having a GaN radar made the Rafale obsolete as a MRFA contestant, while being blissfully ignorant that the Rafale F5 standard was planning a new GaN radar with larger number of T/R modules.

While ignoring that there is no other air superiority fighter in current IAF service with an AESA radar, apart from Jag DARIN 3s which are still dedicated ground strike fighters. While forgetting that the Tejas Mk1A is also coming (or will come since GE Aerospace screwed us royally) in with a GaAs radar. While forgetting that the Su-30MKI upgrade is at the very least, 5 years away from delivering even a single upgraded Su-30MKI. And even with that, we have just 36 Rafales! The smallest fleet of combat fighters ever inducted into the IAF and if Alpha Defense and his ilk had their way, it would be stuck at that number!

The issue that the IAF faces is severe and unprecedented in it's history. Not since 1962 has India's air power seemed so weak and outnumbered when compared to the adversaries. Lack of numbers as well as a massive technological deficit when compared to what the PLAAF now fields and will field in the next 5 years. There is no other solution but to invest in a line for the Rafale while backing Tejas Mk1A and Tejas Mk2 to deliver on the schedule agreed upon with the IAF. The Meteor BVRAAM invokes fear in the enemy, whether Alpha Defense or other Atmanirbharta proponents like it or not. And Astra Mk3 is several years away from being in service.

Penny pinching will lead to disastrous results in the long run. Another short and swift exchange like Swift Retort should not let the PAF go unpunished, which as of now is still possible.

[Rakesh]

@Kartik: Alpha Defence is a classic example of taking the brain out of your head and flushing it down the toilet.

In all his rant about GaA vs GaN, he never once mentioned about the Tejas Mk1A having a GaA radar. He certainly knew it, but he chose to conveniently ignore that fact. Then he went into full brain-dead mode on a Rafale diatribe.

It is hilarious that folks like him and others still think that Tejas Mk1A (or any other Tejas variant) is the golden solution to addressing the squadron shortage in the IAF. At the rate of two F404 deliveries per month, these guys want to go all in on even more Tejas aircraft. There is no long term plan for engine development. Just keep on building Tejas aircraft and wait for the US to deliver turbofans.

What kind of Lahori logic is this?

The IAF needs an alternative to a non-US turbofan powered fighter aircraft. And that list is very small. Either France or Russia.

[Cain Marko]

@Kartik: Alpha Defence is a classic example of taking the brain out of your head and flushing it down the toilet.

In all his rant about GaA vs GaN, he never once mentioned about the Tejas Mk1A having a GaA radar. He certainly knew it, but he chose to conveniently ignore that fact. Then he went into full brain-dead mode on a Rafale diatribe.

It is hilarious that folks like him and others still think that Tejas Mk1A (or any other Tejas variant) is the golden solution to addressing the squadron shortage in the IAF. At the rate of two F404 deliveries per month, these guys want to go all in on even more Tejas aircraft. There is no long term plan for engine development. Just keep on building Tejas aircraft and wait for the US to deliver turbofans.

What kind of Lahori logic is this?

The IAF needs an alternative to a non-US turbofan powered fighter aircraft. And that list is very small. Either France or Russia.

It drives me nuts thinking about the missed opportunity of making the tejas an Al 31 based mirage sized bird... It's a bit late for that now though. Don't be surprised if they think of getting the su75 along with raffle

[pravula]

Isn't ORCA supposed to be that? ala M4000?

[Rakesh]

ORCA is khayali pulao.

Until funds are sanctioned to design & develop aircraft, ORCA, TEDBF, etc are pipe dreams.

[pravula]

ORCA is khayali pulao.

Until funds are sanctioned to design & develop aircraft, ORCA, TEDBF, etc are pipe dreams.

Agreed, but so is a AL-31 powered Tejas...Just pointing out that if we want to shove an AL-31 in there, then a Mirage-4000ski would be a better path...

[titash]

If one were to think objectively:

1) There is an assured supply of Russian engines, and a local supply chain exists for 25-50% of that engine
2) Russian engines are less efficient and less reliable, necessitating a twin engine design
3) India is now fully capable of designing and manufacturing a delta winged fighter with digital FBW, glass cockpit, AESA radar, BVR missiles

Then the obvious solution to "what fighters can I design & manufacture & induct rapidly from scratch?" is a twin AL-31 (non-TV) heavy delta winged fighter i.e. a Mirage 4000 but with AL-31 & Tejas wing

The Russians don't have anything to lose, compared to manufacturing 200 LCA Tejas with 0% Russian content. From a de-risking perspective, this project should be rushed through.

[Aditya_V]

Small Question, Al-31 size and Weight is a different class than F404, for me it like putting a Truck engine in a Maruti Alto and expecting performance.

RD 33 is more similar to what can fit in a Tejas.

[csaurabh]

This is exactly what I was telling those like Alpha Defense and others who were saying that due to Dassault's large backlog, the Navy's Rafales couldn't be delivered till 2030 or so. I was insisting that if a company takes on an order it is their obligation to deliver on time or else penalties would be in order.

There are slots allocated to customers based on when they place their orders. Exports having priority over domestic orders in general will most likely mean that the French Air Force's Rafale slots will be allocated to the IN. Long lead items like the heavy forgings will be ordered upto 36 months in advance based on the production slots.

So my guess is - the IN will first receive 4 Rafale D fighters for training purposes. Those can go onto the assembly line earlier given their long lead items would've been ordered. The 22 Rafale M fighters will follow after that, with nearly 80% commonality of parts with the Rafale C.

Penalties cannot solve any supply chain issues.
Generally for govt the late delivery penalty is at max 10%. So in the bid process, the contractor will include 10% extra and be free from the headache of needing to be delivered 'on time', which is not practical in most cases anyway.

[Rakesh]

ORCA is khayali pulao.

Until funds are sanctioned to design & develop aircraft, ORCA, TEDBF, etc are pipe dreams.

Agreed, but so is a AL-31 powered Tejas...Just pointing out that if we want to shove an AL-31 in there, then a Mirage-4000ski would be a better path...

Any idea (incl AL-31 powered Tejas) is khayali pulao. What Cain Marko said above is his wish.

No point in announcing programs (TEDBF / ORCA / Mirage 4000ski) if the Govt is not going to sanction funds for prototype development.

TEDBF: khayali pulao
ORCA: khayali pulao
HLFT-42: khayali pulao

You can announce the moon, but show me the funds.

[Cain Marko]

Bhailog, please try to understand post about tejas and AL31 in context of what may happen and what could have happened. Iows, this is not only khayali pilaf but stale khayali pilaf.

The real situation is what to do now with entire tejas line depending on US manufactured engines. How to the mitigate the situation? All parties are to be blamed for the current situation.... The ADA very well knew considering what had happened post pokhran2. The IAF always knew but never truly bothered to take any interest since they wanted gori bimbo from the beginning. Hal went with it so long as they could turn some screws. Mod and babus were the only ones that had no idea other than it didn't provide enough baksheesh. Point is, it's all water under the bridge now.

Next steps and questions:
To continue with current set up and be at mercy of mssrs GE and SD

Quit with current order of mk1a and let it continue to dribble in. Forget ge based MK2.

find alternative via kaveri - m88 - izd30 -rr offers of tot (whatever that means) for MK2

Run after Natasha su75 "codeveloped" as new version of MK2, mitigate stealth fighter need they this as well.

It's unlikely that any of these partners will provide anything enginewise without substantial returns... Additional rafales, su57 or su75 ityadi.

Crazy thought: develop kaveri based tejas 4000 / tedbf twin engined design. Maityaji seems to suggest that basic kaveri should work. In the meantime buy vanilla su57 or rafale in small qty and more mki, m2k, mig29 to manage numbers until said t4k is ready.

[williams]

Bhailog, please try to understand post about tejas and AL31 in context of what may happen and what could have happened. Iows, this is not only khayali pilaf but stale khayali pilaf.

The real situation is what to do now with entire tejas line depending on US manufactured engines. How to the mitigate the situation? All parties are to be blamed for the current situation.... The ADA very well knew considering what had happened post pokhran2. The IAF always knew but never truly bothered to take any interest since they wanted gori bimbo from the beginning. Hal went with it so long as they could turn some screws. Mod and babus were the only ones that had no idea other than it didn't provide enough baksheesh. Point is, it's all water under the bridge now.

Next steps and questions:
To continue with current set up and be at mercy of mssrs GE and SD

Quit with current order of mk1a and let it continue to dribble in. Forget ge based MK2.

find alternative via kaveri - m88 - izd30 -rr offers of tot (whatever that means) for MK2

Run after Natasha su75 "codeveloped" as new version of MK2, mitigate stealth fighter need they this as well.

It's unlikely that any of these partners will provide anything enginewise without substantial returns... Additional rafales, su57 or su75 ityadi.

Crazy thought: develop kaveri based tejas 4000 / tedbf twin engined design. Maityaji seems to suggest that basic kaveri should work. In the meantime buy vanilla su57 or rafale in small qty and more mki, m2k, mig29 to manage numbers until said t4k is ready.

Second option is the best, hopefully it will come through. Last one should be tried no matter what. However both require a lot more serious funding and time. MoD babus need more technocrats if they don't understand this reality. You are not going to get the metallurgy and forging techniques from others no matter what you pay. Nobody is going to sell their golden goose. Also we need to get a consortium of private players to start working on solutions in parallel. BTW delays from GE cannot be overcome by any of the above. We just need to say we learn't the lesson and move on to make course correction. Running to Natasha at this juncture given her predicament with a war and sanctions is not a great idea.

[Kartik]

Bhailog, please try to understand post about tejas and AL31 in context of what may happen and what could have happened. Iows, this is not only khayali pilaf but stale khayali pilaf.

The real situation is what to do now with entire tejas line depending on US manufactured engines. How to the mitigate the situation? All parties are to be blamed for the current situation.... The ADA very well knew considering what had happened post pokhran2. The IAF always knew but never truly bothered to take any interest since they wanted gori bimbo from the beginning. Hal went with it so long as they could turn some screws. Mod and babus were the only ones that had no idea other than it didn't provide enough baksheesh. Point is, it's all water under the bridge now.

Next steps and questions:
To continue with current set up and be at mercy of mssrs GE and SD

Quit with current order of mk1a and let it continue to dribble in. Forget ge based MK2.

find alternative via kaveri - m88 - izd30 -rr offers of tot (whatever that means) for MK2

Run after Natasha su75 "codeveloped" as new version of MK2, mitigate stealth fighter need they this as well.

It's unlikely that any of these partners will provide anything enginewise without substantial returns... Additional rafales, su57 or su75 ityadi.

Crazy thought: develop kaveri based tejas 4000 / tedbf twin engined design. Maityaji seems to suggest that basic kaveri should work. In the meantime buy vanilla su57 or rafale in small qty and more mki, m2k, mig29 to manage numbers until said t4k is ready.

None of this is possible.

Facts are these:

1- the Tejas Mk2 is designed with the F-414 specifications. Any changes to the engine choice at this time will totally derail the entire program and pretty much end it
2- Without the additional 97 Tejas Mk1A orders, the IAF will lack adequate numbers of light fighters and HAL will have no work after the 83 are delivered, assuming that still happens in 2028.
3- Kaveri isn't even powerful enough or tested enough to be able to power the Tejas Mk1A, so where is the question of getting it up to 98 kN and having it reliable enough within a sensible time frame to power the Tejas Mk2?
4- M-88 isn't powerful enough to power even the Tejas Mk1A at 70 kN in afterburner.
5- Izd30 (AL-51F) is not even powering the Su-57 as yet, so once again where is it even possible to use it for a Tejas Mk2? Besides, the Tejas Mk2 would have to be re-designed very significantly, meaning all the current timelines will be out the window. It won't be arriving before AMCA in that case since even a re-designed prototype Tejas Mk2 with AL-51 won't appear within this decade.
6- The only possible option is to go in for the EJ-200 but that also requires a significant re-design and the EJ-200 needs to be modified, tested and certified for single engine operations, something it currently still isn't certified to do.
7- Su-75 hasn't see a single prototype rolled out with no test flights as yet. The design seems good, but Russia has other pressing issues and isn't funding the program to the degree that it's development schedule will see a series production Su-75 anytime before AMCA.

As things stand, all our fighter programs are wedded to GE engines. There is no divorce possible without throwing all these programs into complete disarray.

We just have to bite the bullet and look at getting as much ToT for being able to manufacture significant percentage of the F-404 and F-414 engines with as much design knowhow as well.

Meanwhile, the MRFA has to be pushed through, for bringing in the numbers the IAF needs. If the MRFA is too expensive then there must be 3 squadrons at least of the Rafale purchased OTS. Then, to make up the numbers of medium twin engine fighters, a land based TEDBF variant must be forced down IAF's throat.

Everything else is as Rakesh puts it, "khayali pulao" with zero feasibility.

[R Charan]

ADA Plans Two Variants of TEDBF with STOBAR for Current Carriers and CATOBAR for Future Carriers

The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) is taking a forward-looking approach to the development of the Twin Engine Deck-Based Fighter (TEDBF) for the Indian Navy.

Recognizing the Navy's potential transition to a new aircraft carrier configuration in the future, ADA is planning two variants of the TEDBF: one optimized for Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery (STOBAR) operations and another for Catapult Assisted Take-Off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) operations.

https://defence.in/threads/ada-plans-tw ... iers.7046/

[Kartik]

TEDBF brochure. This is the latest design iteration of the TEDBF. Much more refined than the earlier one we'd seen. Very Rafalesque now.

Twitter link

[Rakesh]

Official New Timelines On India’s Fighter Programs
https://www.livefistdefence.com/officia ... -programs/
09 Feb 2025

TEDBF: To begin deliveries starting 2038

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ReviewVayu/status/1888465713599496347 ---> The Indian Navy's proposed TEDBF can be seen here at Aero India in model form giving an idea of its looks and weapon load out.

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1889568952281436240 ---> Is there a way to clone him? We need at least a dozen of people like @JA_Maolankar and @joe_sameer as decision makers in the GoI.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1889572765453128035 ---> You have to have the TEDBF whether you have Rafale or not. You will not have a carrier Navy if you do not have the TEDBF that is something unfortunately what I see: Commodore JA Maolankar (Retd), NM.

[Rakesh]

X-Post from the VayuSena Rafale: News and Discussions - 17 Oct 2016 thread...

Navy's Rs 60,000 crore Rafale-M jet deal to help upgrade capabilities of IAF Rafales
https://aninews.in/news/national/genera ... 218192930/
18 Feb 2025

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1892043984094052827 ----> Rafale M deal (₹60k cr) will help upgrade buddy refueling & other capabilities of 36 IAF Rafales, ~10 a/c to be capable refuelling others.

+ Ground equipment, software updates.
+ Navy looking to acquire Indian TEDBF, likely to be naval counterpart of AMCA.

[Rakesh]

Initially IN wanted a 5th gen TEDBF.

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1892065924158550489 ---> After discussing with ADA, decided to develop 4++ TEDBF by 2028 with subsequent development of 5th Gen. First Flight needed by 2026 to confirm MiG-29K replacement.

- Did IN change it's stance by seeking Rafale M & reportedly withholding 4++ TEDBF approvals?

- NLCA?

[Rakesh]

The talented Kuntal Biswas just made a render of a twin engine Tejas Mk2 (i.e. ORCA ?)

https://x.com/Kuntal__biswas/status/1907725567723499587 --->

[hemant_sai]

Are we not too late for this??? Those KB renders were done long back when ORCA news 1st surfaced.

In 2022 when mk2 SE rollout was delayed, that was right time to pitch this with M88/RD33/Kaveri engines.
In any case ADA should have taken parallel efforts from 2018 to keep design ready with 2 engines.

Nobody is asking why we are so averse to put efforts on 2 solutions. In the end it all looks result of laid back attitude and purposefully creating dependency on 1 vendor?

Are ADA folks so naive that they don't understand the consequences of following only 1 design based on 1 engine?