Indian Navy News & Discussion - 12 April 2021

[Rakesh]

India's alliance balance: After US Predator drones, stealth frigates from Russia
https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-i ... 2024-11-12
12 Nov 2024

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/MazagonDockLtd/status/1854845297543036960 ---> MDL has successfully indigenised the O-Ring, a critical item used for different sealing applications and pipe flanges in various systems onboard submarine. This item was earlier imported which has now been indigenised through M/s James Walker Inmarco, Mumbai.

https://x.com/MananS7749/status/1854881147634823191 ---> We used to import "O-rings" of all things?? WTF?

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/HQ01910/status/1853671806219219041 ---> Indian Navy also tested its Towbarless Tow Tug for aircraft and helicopters by Premier Evolvics Pvt Ltd during Swavlamban 2024.

[Rakesh]

Nearly 7 years after the commissioning of INS Kalvari, we are still deciding which torpedo to acquire. What an utter joke.

Italian 'Black Shark' back in contest for navy's torpedo need
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 266425.cms
13 Nov 2024

The Italian 'Black Shark' torpedo, which courted controversy more than a decade ago after it came under allegations of corruption and irregularities, is back in contention for an Indian Navy requirement of heavy weight torpedoes for the Kalvari Class submarines. Manufactured by Leonardo, the erstwhile Finmeccanica, the torpedo is being considered for the requirement of 48 heavyweight torpedoes after the Italian company was taken off the blacklist. Other options for the estimated ₹3,000 crore contract are from Germany and France.

While the German and French torpedoes were tested by the Navy as part of a competition two years ago that did not fructify, the Italian weapon was last tested in 2009 during the UPA regime. Sources said that the tender process that has been initiated does not specify field evaluation trials by competitors, making it unclear whether the evaluators will rely on past data or technical information about the product. A detailed questionnaire sent to the navy and Leonardo did not receive a response till press time. The Black Shark was the frontrunner for a requirement of 98 torpedoes in 2008-09. However, the project was dropped in 2013 and the case was referred to the Central Bureau of Investigation by the defence ministry.

The Navy has been seeking to acquire new HWTs for over a decade now. The last bid was a competition between a German and a French torpedo for the requirement, with the French F21 coming out to be technically compliant and the lowest bidder. However, the contract could not reach the signing stage. The defence ministry subsequently approved a two-pronged plan - acquisition of a limited quantity of 48 torpedoes to meet immediate requirements from a foreign vendor and a Make in India plan for the larger requirement. Defence Research & Development Organization (DRDO) could take a lead role on the indigenous project by roping in a private partner. The weapons are to be equipped on India's Kalvari (Scorpene) Class of submarines that are being built by Mazagaon Dockyard. India has a total of six of these submarines on order and an additional three of the same class are being negotiated.

[srai]

^^^
Forget about new SSKs … even to acquire torpedoes requires at least 2 decades

[Manish_P]

^ Not to forget that Torpedoes have a shelf-life.

In some cases shorter than air force and army missiles.

[SRajesh]

Rakesh
This 'Dishaheen durdasha' is solely a self inflicted injury.
Since time of passing away of shri Parrikarji this DOD/Acquistion fiasco is going on with no end in sight.
Every six months an announcement is made for Atmanirbhar and then everything is put in a cold storage.
Someone has to take the blame.
Here the buck stops with RM!
The incumbent is completely out of depth to bring to heel the DOD/Services Tango
They are on a merry Malai train and emergency Aquisition will go on and we will be chasing the Chimera of Uber-ulla TOT and Unobtanium which will never happen.
Every incoming chief will add his perspective ( ) to the growing list of Emergency acquisitions!! nobody gives a damn about Atmanirbhar!!

[SSridhar]

Nearly 7 years after the commissioning of INS Kalvari, we are still deciding which torpedo to acquire. What an utter joke.

Italian 'Black Shark' back in contest for navy's torpedo need

Rakesh, what happened to our own Varunastra?

[Manish_P]

...
Rakesh, what happened to our own Varunastra?

Isn't Varunastra a surface ship launched torpedo?

[Aditya_V]

There is a submarine launched version of Varunastra which has been tested but not yet inducted, I don't know it's dimensions whether it less than the NATO standard 21 ft Torpedoes which is the Scorpene launch tube size compared to 24ft for the Russian Kilo launch tube size.

[uddu]

^^^This is not a confirmed news about Varunastra-Submarine launched variant. A decade back or so, one of the scientist who worked on Varunastra was asked about the progress on its submarine launched version. His answer was its going on/work in progress/looking into it, or a vague reply without dismissing it altogether. So there exist a Varunastra sub variant, atleast on paper. No one has heard about its progress though.

[Anujan]

From ministry of defense

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleaseIframePa ... ID=1989502

Combat trial of indigenously developed Varunastra, a ship-launched anti-submarine heavy-weight torpedo (HWT) was successfully conducted on 6th June, 2023 by Indian Navy. The Torpedo was fired from a submarine and successfully hit an underwater target demonstrating the combat worthiness and capable of meeting the Navy’s operational requirements. BDL has manufactured and supplied the torpedo and associated in integration, torpedo preparation for sea trials and firing onboard ship.

[uddu]

Thanks. I have seen that and mistook it as targeting underwater platform and typo by PIB. Navy has released video footage and is silent about the launch platform
https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1665928681557200896
Successful engagement of an Underwater Target by an indigenously developed Heavy Weight Torpedo is a significant milestone in #IndianNavy's &
@DRDO_India's quest for accurate delivery of ordnance on target in the underwater domain.
#AatmaNirbharBharat
@DefenceMinIndia

[Rakesh]

Rakesh, what happened to our own Varunastra?

SSridhar-ji, in addition to all the replies posted above...the sub variant of the Varunastra torpedo is designed only for the Kilo Class boats.

The Kalvari Class boats currently use torpedoes from the Shishumar Class boats.

[SSridhar]

Thank you Rakesh for the clarification.

[srai]

Rakesh, what happened to our own Varunastra?

SSridhar-ji, in addition to all the replies posted above...the sub variant of the Varunastra torpedo is designed only for the Kilo Class boats.

The Kalvari Class boats currently use torpedoes from the Shishumar Class boats.

Varunastra’s dimensions
Length
7.78 m (25.5 ft)
Diameter
533.4 mm (21.00 in)

DRDO and IN looks to have selected Russian 533mm standards for its heavyweight torpedo design. Now to support Western designs they will have to R&D a new class of torpedoes.

Maybe the IN should have asked for P75/A customization to support 533mm tubes

[wig]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/India/ex ... b71d&ei=11

INS Brahmaputra restoration reaches milestone after fire incident
excerpts

Almost four months after a major fire broke out on board the INS Brahmaputra at the naval dockyard in Mumbai, the restoration process of the Indian Navy warship has reached a major milestone.

Sources told India Today TV that the multi-role frigate is now upright, with foreign agency experts deballasting the warship using balloon-like structures, pushing the ship's surface up.

[Manish_P]

...
SSridhar-ji, in addition to all the replies posted above...the sub variant of the Varunastra torpedo is designed only for the Kilo Class boats.
...

So the development and testing has concluded with positive outcomes. Have orders been placed or some further testing is required?

[srai]

SSridhar-ji, in addition to all the replies posted above...the sub variant of the Varunastra torpedo is designed only for the Kilo Class boats.

The Kalvari Class boats currently use torpedoes from the Shishumar Class boats.

Varunastra’s dimensions
Length
7.78 m (25.5 ft)
Diameter
533.4 mm (21.00 in)

DRDO and IN looks to have selected Russian 533mm standards for its heavyweight torpedo design. Now to support Western designs they will have to R&D a new class of torpedoes.

Maybe the IN should have asked for P75/A customization to support 533mm tubes

Black Shark torpedo dimensions:
Length
6.3 m (21 ft)
Diameter
533 mm (21.0 in)

Length is 1.5m shorter in comparison. Varunastra might be doable on Scorpene SSK.

[dinesh_kimar]

^ I checked (may be mistaken) , but India has tested a submarine launched torpedo only once, the Takshak, a few years back. It is the development of Varunastra.( No clear news report / pics avbl.)

The development strategy appears to be to first indigenize the Ship launch version (done with Varunastra, 100+ produced for all warships), followed by Air launch version (done with TAL, tested on IL-38, P-8I, and now readying for a launch on Sea-Kings, already inducted as the mainstay air launched version, also integrated with missile as SMART, future submarine launch version planned), and finally a submarine launched version of Varunastra heavy torpedo as Takshak ( for Russian submarines, if successful a version for Type 209/ Scorpene will be developed). Takshak has various versions, upto 85 knot speed and 50+ knot range. It is battery operated, contra rotating propeller type device.

A seperate development using thermal engine submarine launched torpedo called Shakti is also being developed, but no information about tests conducted.

The BRF page (by Austin Joseph) shows that India makes
Type 53-65 submarine torpedo locally, but no information abt this, may be unlikely, seeing DRDO struggling with local version for so long.

Japan, S.Korea and Turkey have successfully made local sub-launched torpedos which are quite good and have replaced Western torpedoes.

DRDO has to pull up it's socks and deliver on this, we have a submarine launched torpedo problem since UPA era.

[Rakesh]

Not sure if this was posted back in Sept...

Navy to commission 6th Kalvari-class submarine Vagsheer in December
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 01623.html
29 Sept 2024

[Manish_P]

Reports coming in

Shiv Aroor

@ShivAroor
Indian Navy submarine collides with fishing vessel ‘Marthoma’ off Goa coast on Thursday night. 11 fishermen rescued, 2 still missing, search on by ships & aircraft. No major damage to submarine, currently continuing its transit.

Added later - the sub is reported to be a scorpene

[uddu]

Preparations Intensify Ahead of Navy Day Celebrations in Puri

[SRajesh]

https://www.thestatesman.com/india/mod- ... 70651.html
What does this mean??
How long will she be out of action??

[AkshaySG]

https://www.thestatesman.com/india/mod- ... 70651.html
What does this mean??
How long will she be out of action??

For Vikramaditya the question should always be "How long will she be in action" as being in refit/repairs is the natural state for both it and it's Mig 29 air wing

[srai]

https://x.com/Rethik_D/status/1780853779367370911

Finally !
A a good pic of Indian Navy Anti-drone system!

[sanman]

[SSridhar]

I don't want to discuss China more elaborately here, but PLAN has a massive claustrophobic issue with the dozens of straits through which it has to sail to access open seas. One of the reasons for the Chinese interest in & access to Sri Lanka, BD & Myanmar is to monitor the likelihood of an Indian bastion in BoB.

[Rakesh]

Article is by Hemant Kumar Rout...

Puri set to show off India’s maritime might
https://www.newindianexpress.com/states ... time-might
01 Dec 2024

[bala]

Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral D. K. Tripathi Q&A with Bharat Shakti

As The Largest Navy In The Region, We Provide Maritime Security To All, Says Navy Chief

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCshlsOWX1c

Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s vision SAGAR (Security and Growth for All in the Region), puts the Indian Navy at front and centre of regional security. It puts much more responsibility on the navy.

[Ankit Desai]

Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral D. K. Tripathi on Navy Day.

"As of now, 62 ships and one submarine are under construction and one ship will be inducted every month till next year."

-Ankit

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ShivAroor/status/1863891425290797543 ---> The Indian Navy says its submarine INS Karanj has suffered Rs 10 crore in damage after Nov 21 collision with fishing trawler off Goa coast. Navy has filed an FIR against the fishing boat's captain. After the boat sank, 9 fishermen were rescued, 2 missing, presumed dead.

[Rakesh]

As The Largest Navy In The Region, We Provide Maritime Security To All, Says Navy Chief
https://bharatshakti.in/as-the-largest- ... avy-chief/
02 Dec 2024

In keeping with Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s vision SAGAR (Security and Growth for All in the Region), puts the Indian Navy at front and centre of regional security. It puts much more responsibility on the navy, acknowledges Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral D.K. Tripathi. In April of 2015, when the Prime Minister first enunciated this vision of Sagar, it has become a guiding mantra for the Indian Navy, he adds.

We would like, as the largest navy in this region, to be able to ensure maritime security not only for our, country, which is very, essential, but also to all other countries in the area. As you know, 95% of our trade by volume, traverses through the oceans. And this trend is not going to ease out anytime soon. All friendly nations in the region are also provided, requisite help on demand whenever they want. So our aim is to ensure that the Indian Ocean, remains safe, secure and stable in the coming years.

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy Special Feature 2024: Waves of Power

Witness the might that rules the waves! Experience the Special Feature: "Waves of Power" on Navy Day 2024 – A tribute to the Indian Navy’s unwavering commitment. Combat Ready, Credible, Cohesive & Future Ready Force – Safeguarding National Maritime Interests, Anytime Anywhere Anyhow.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ShivAroor/status/1863891425290797543 ---> The Indian Navy says its submarine INS Karanj has suffered Rs 10 crore in damage after Nov 21 collision with fishing trawler off Goa coast. Navy has filed an FIR against the fishing boat's captain. After the boat sank, 9 fishermen were rescued, 2 missing, presumed dead.

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1864319331321917872 ---> Submarine damaged by fishing boat will be repaired during planned maintenance. For now it will continue providing services.

[Suraj]

Could someone familiar with this domain please provide a status update on NGD / P18 ?

[Rakesh]

Indian Navy to be 175 warships strong force

[titash]

Per Adm. DT in above video, the IN is going to have 160-175 ships (based on all constraints - fiscal, shipbuilding, etc.) with significantly increased combat capabilities

The average size of the fleet unit will be a highly capable 6000 tons unit with combat capability in all 3 dimensions. The average age of the fleet will decrease so that only 15% of the ships are >20 years old (today it's 55%)

So expect the baseline oceangoing component to be the 3+7+7 = 17 units of stealthy P-17/P-17A/P-17B, and the 3+4 = 7 units of the stealthy P-15A/P-15B. A force of 24 principal combatants with multi-role capability. The smaller 3000-ton Kamortas & Next-Gen Corvettes will likely be balanced by a fleet of 10,000-ton P-18 NGD

The P-17 Shivalik class should undergo a deep upgrade to rip/replace the Shtil-1 with the MF-STAR/Barak-8. Its well worth the money spent unlike the older P-15 Delhi class

The P-15 Delhi & 3500-ton P-16 Brahmaputra will likely be retired in the next 5-10 years and will serve as second-rate vessels. The batch-1 Talwars will probably meet the same fate. The batch-2/3/4 Talwars will serve in the western fleet as Pakistan specific assets.

[Aditya G]

Navy surface fleet is now at a constant rate of renewal with new classes of vessels being ordered. Project 17 Bravo is the next tranches of ships in the works. Next Gen Frigate and Next Gen Destroyer come next. exciting times.

I feel light at the end of the submarine acq. tunnel may be upon us with 3 scorpenes and price discovery of Project 75I coming up

[srai]

^^^
Follow-on should have been 6 x Scorpene (instead of three) with lot more indigenization.

* sonar
* AIP
* combat management
* weapons
- living spaces
* various other subsystems

P-75I should have been IDDM (w/ EU partner consultant).