International Naval News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1793318901440561443 ---> JUST IN: Successful first force assessment firing of the upgraded medium-range air-to-ground strategic missile ASMPA-R. This unloaded missile was fired by a Rafale of the strategic air forces during a flight representative of a nuclear raid. The DGA followed the firing and flight of the missile developed by @MBDAFrance from the Biscarrosse, Hourtin, and Quimper sites of the expertise and testing center. The ASMPA renovation program led by the DGA makes it possible to strengthen the missile's performance and maintain the credibility of the nuclear airborne component of deterrence in the face of evolving threats until the arrival of the future air-to-ground nuclear missile of the 4th generation.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... kyhwv55Y1w ---> Thailand: Many senior officers of Thai Navy are opposed to the use of Chinese CHD 620 engine onboard Thailand's submarines on order from China, due to reliability issues; arguing that it has never been used even in Chinese submarines.

Thailand reverses course on 2023 submarine decision and will now proceed with a Chinese-made engine
https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news- ... ade-engine
18 May 2024

[Rakesh]

Exail Chosen By Navantia To Equip Spanish S80 Submarines With WECDIS Navigation System
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... on-system/
27 May 2024

[Rakesh]

The French Navy will finally replenish the stock of anti-ship missiles on its frigates
https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/defense/ ... s-fregates
27 May 2024

[Rakesh]

Japan’s new super battlewagons set to be the most powerful surface warships in the world
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... les-china/
30 May 2024

[Rakesh]

Japan Sets Course For New 13DDX Air Defence Destroyer
https://www.navalnews.com/event-news/cn ... destroyer/
26 June 2024

Japan plans to begin design work on a new, high-end air-defence destroyer known as 13DDX in fiscal year 2024 (FY24).

[Rakesh]

New 3SM ‘Tyrfing’ Missile Receives German Development Funding
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... t-funding/
01 July 2024

German budget share of 650 million Euros covering development until 2033. New missile to be operational by 2035.

[Rakesh]

UK First Sea Lord: Joint Crewing Of SSN-AUKUS Submarines Likely
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... es-likely/
24 July 2024

[Rakesh]

Netherlands: Choice For Orka Class Submarines By Naval Group Final
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ocurement/
24 July 2024

On July 24, 2024, the District Court of The Hague dismissed the appeal by Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) regarding the Dutch Ministry of Defense's decision to procure Barracuda submarines from Naval Group.

[Rakesh]

Aircraft For Maritime Patrol Forging Ahead
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ing-ahead/
25 July 2024

[Rakesh]

Australian Navy Chief Praises Naval Strike Missile Acquisition
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... quisition/
26 July 2024

[sanman]

What is the future of US shipbuilding?

[Rakesh]

The US may have just ripped the heart out of the Royal Navy
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... oyal-navy/
31 July 2024

[Lisa]

The US may have just ripped the heart out of the Royal Navy
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... oyal-navy/
31 July 2024

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmfRi2Vl3JQ&t=56s

I think that it is not a direct attack weapon but designed to use water pressure to break a ship in half, much like a torpedo. Very clever.

[uddu]

Bomb made to explode under the hull.

[Manish_P]

The US may have just ripped the heart out of the Royal Navy
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... oyal-navy/
31 July 2024

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmfRi2Vl3JQ&t=56s

I think that it is not a direct attack weapon but designed to use water pressure to break a ship in half, much like a torpedo. Very clever.

It is a 2000 pound JDAM variant and uses the same principle as some anti-ship torpedoes - huge pressure wave which lifts and drops the ship rapidly causing it to break in half. Hence the quick sinking.

Advantage is it is quite cheap. Disadvantage is it is quite short ranged and needs to be dropped by aircraft.

India has recently developed the Supersonic Missile-Assisted Release of Torpedo (SMART) system. Perhaps we could develop a variant with a guided bomb in place of the torpedo.

[sanman]

[wig]

First Clear Images of the Italian Submarines being built for Qatar
extracts

Fresh details of Qatar’s new submarines have been revealed at the MSPO International Defence Industry Exhibition in Poland. The two submarines for the Qatari Emiri Navy are being built by M23 SRL in Bergamo, Italy. The exhibition included a model of the C-Series design, the first time it has been shown in public.

The M23 C-Series submarine has also been observed being tested at La Spezia, the physical and spiritual home of Italian naval special forces. The port has a long and storied tradition of midget submarine construction, both for the nation’s special forces and export.

The submarines were contracted in January 2020 under a deal associated with Italy’s main defence shipbuilder, Fincantieri. The agreement described “the supply of cutting-edge naval vessels and submarines.”

details of submarine

submarine has an overall length of 23 meters (75 feet) and a width of 5 meters (16 feet). It can dive to 200 meters (650 feet) and reach speeds of 12 knots. The crew of 6 can be accompanied by a further 6 passengers, typically special forces combat swimmers. These can lock out of the submarine through a special hatch to conduct covert operations.
While relatively short, its fatter beam gives it an overall size comparable to a typical 30 meter (100 foot) submarine. Comparable types, in size terms, include the Iranian Ghadir Class (actually the North Korean Yono design) and the Italian built Cos.Mo.S MG-110.

The M23 design is comparatively heavily armed, with two torpedo tubes housed under the casing. These can house standard 553mm (21 inch) heavyweight torpedoes. The submarine can also carry Murena smart sea mines and launch loitering munitions.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... for-qatar/

[sanman]

Grounding of US oil resupply ship in Arabian Sea leaves Aircraft Carrier Without Gas

[Rakesh]

Japan MoD signs contracts to build two ASEVs with MHI and JMU
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... i-and-jmu/
02 Oct 2024

[Rakesh]

Milestone reached in German-Norwegian Type 212CD submarine program
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/milestone-re ... ne-program
20 September 2024

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/thegeneralboard/status/18 ... 1011735882 ---> Carthage has been real quiet since the Italians brought back the ram bow.

[Rakesh]

Australia just got knifed in the back - over AUKUS - by the US Congress in Washington.

Enjoy the read below, along with the attached images...

https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1847162340829262239 ---> Incredible, even the US Congress now admits that Australia will probably not get the AUKUS submarines. And they propose an alternative that achieves the feat of being even far worse than AUKUS (which was already a terrible deal). In a new report (which you can find here: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/RL/RL32418) the US Congressional Research Service admits that the country's industrial base is very far from achieving the target of building 2.33 submarines per year needed to build replacement submarines for those sold to Australia: in fact the rate is currently only "1.2 to 1.4".

Given this, they actually propose to just forgo the sale of submarines entirely (!) and go for an alternative approach where the US deploys US submarines manned by the US Navy to Australia instead: "up to eight additional Virginia-class SSNs would be built, and instead of three to five of them being sold to Australia, these additional boats would instead be retained in U.S. Navy service and operated out of Australia." But since they don't want to miss out on the Australian money meant for the subs, they conveniently propose that Australia instead spends it on other US military products: "Australia, instead of using funds to purchase, build, operate, and maintain its own SSNs, would instead invest those funds in other military capabilities—such as, for example, long-range anti-ship missiles, drones, loitering munitions, B-21 long-range bombers, or other long-range strike aircraft".

All this for the purpose of "performing military missions for both Australia and the United States".

So essentially, from Australia's standpoint, the new deal would mean:

- Zero control over the submarines operated on its territory since it'd all be manned by the U.S. Navy
- Australia still spends a similar eyewatering amount of money ($368 billion) on US military equipment that is mostly "long-range": "long-range anti-ship missiles", "B-21 long-range bombers", "long-range strike aircraft". Meaning by definition not used for the defense of Australia but undoubtedly to attack China. Which is pretty clear: China is mentioned 44 times in the document...
- This US military equipment is to be used, as per the document, to "perform military missions for both Australia and the United States" which is extremely unusual: militaries normally don't perform missions FOR another military. Allied countries might perform missions alongside each other or in support of each other, but not explicitly "for" each other.

How could Australia possibly justify such a deal to its public? AUKUS was already, according to former Australian PM Paul Keating the “worst deal in all history” because it'd "turn Australia into the 51st state of the United States", but this new proposal would strip away even the illusion of Australian sovereignty.

[drnayar]

The 51st us state is taken . It s UK. As someone said being a friend of US is worse than its enemy

[Manish_P]

...
So essentially, from Australia's standpoint, the new deal would mean:

- Zero control over the submarines operated on its territory since it'd all be manned by the U.S. Navy
- Australia still spends a similar eyewatering amount of money ($368 billion) on US military equipment that is mostly "long-range": "long-range anti-ship missiles", "B-21 long-range bombers", "long-range strike aircraft". Meaning by definition not used for the defense of Australia but undoubtedly to attack China. Which is pretty clear: China is mentioned 44 times in the document...
....

Who does Australia need to defend itself from using nuke SSNs?

[Rakesh]

Australia just got knifed in the back - over AUKUS - by the US Congress in Washington.

Enjoy the read below, along with the attached images...

US-Australia AUKUS submarine deal in trouble? US Congressional paper suggests drastic tweaks
https://theprint.in/defence/us-australi ... s/2319160/
19 October 2024

The AUKUS deal was signed in 2021 with the US pushing out France, which was in talks with Australia to sell 12 conventional diesel-electric submarines.

[SNaik]

Congressional Research Service is not part of US Congress, it's one of the advisory services for the Congress.
CRS attempts to assess emerging issues and developing problems so that it will be prepared to assist the Congress if and when it becomes necessary.

In general, the report provides alternative suggestions how Australia should spend their money to benefit the US most
But it's not a change of AUKUS agreement.

[Rakesh]

Thank you for clarifying SNaik-ji. Unfortunately, the first set of re-assigned payments (for other US maal) has already begun.

Australia announces $7B for SM-2, SM-6 missiles in huge munitions purchase
https://breakingdefense.com/2024/10/aus ... -purchase/
21 Oct 2024

[SNaik]

SM-2 costs 2.1 million USD, SM-6 - 4.3 million. RAN has 3 Hobart class DDGs with combined 144 cells for Standard missiles. I would expect that most of the money will go for SM-6 and some 300 SM-2, to keep the line open.

[Cyrano]

‘Serious Loss Of Life’ Feared By Medics As British Nuclear Submarine Encountered ‘Dry Stocks’: Reports

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/uk-nuke-s ... eared/?amp

[Rakesh]

PA-NG: the new visuals of the future French aircraft carrier
https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/defense/ ... s-francais
04 Nov 2024

[Rakesh]

Japan allows joint development and production of Australia’s new general purpose frigates by bidding with New FFM
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... h-new-ffm/
29 Nov 2024

[Rakesh]

Very interesting development and a great move. Will be a force multiplier for the Indian Navy which is acquiring 22 Rafale Ms.

https://x.com/ChasseEmbarquee/status/18 ... 1749665949 ---> The DGA conducted A400M refueling tests from a Rafale Marine to test the new generation refueling pod - NARANG - at reduced speed.

https://x.com/ChasseEmbarquee/status/18 ... 2296795435 ---> The A-400M was here representative of the Hawkeye E-2D, a future surveillance aircraft embarked on an aircraft carrier which will replace the Hawkeye E-2C in service with the French Navy and which will have the capacity to be refueled in flight unlike the E-2C version.

[Rakesh]

Drass DS8 SDV gains Leonardo Black Scorpion torpedo capability
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... apability/
03 Dec 2024

[Manish_P]

Very interesting development and a great move. Will be a force multiplier for the Indian Navy which is acquiring 22 Rafale Ms.
...

In a pinch yes but wouldn't it be better if larger aircrafts, and not fighters, refuel larger recce/patrol birds?

Edit - i get that it is the pod, and the Rafales capability of low-speed which is being tested here...

Added - i can imagine the bean counters going 'Arre you have Rafale na then why do you need refueling aircraft so urgently. Budget tight hai, Pls. adjust'

[Rakesh]

In a pinch yes but wouldn't it be better if larger aircrafts, and not fighters, refuel larger recce/patrol birds?

Edit - i get that it is the pod, and the Rafales capability of low-speed which is being tested here...

Think Operationally;

The Rafale M operates primarily from where? @ Sea, aboard an aircraft carrier. Now when the carrier is somewhere in the Indian Ocean, how practical is it to send a wide body tanker (B737, B767, A310, A330, etc) from a shore based facility to meet up with a fighter, AEW platform, etc at a predetermined location? Even if you go in for a smaller turboprop-based aircraft (i.e. KC-130, C-295, etc), the same issues crop up. Some of these issues are;

1) Factor the wear & tear on the tanker + fuel to reach designated waypoint + fuel in the tanker's belly for in-flight refuelling. Now compare this to a Rafale M equipped with an in-flight refueling pod. Significantly cheaper, because both the AEW and the Rafale M have the same home base i.e. the aircraft carrier. Think how cumbersome / impractical it will be, that each time we need to refuel a carrier-based AEW platform or even another Rafale M...we have to call a shore-based tanker to do that job. This is a big operational liability.

Now obviously, a Rafale M will be able to carry a much smaller fuel load when compared to a tanker. But what the French are proving is that the Rafale M can refuel a A-400M transport, an aircraft that has an internal fuel capacity of 50,500 kg (111,300 lb). Comparatively, the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye has an internal fuel capacity of 13,690 kg (30,181 lbs). In the Indian scenario, our Ka-31 AEW helos have an internal fuel capacity of 4,800 kg (10,582 lbs). And the Indian Navy Ka-31 AEW helos do have the plumbing installed for in-flight refueling.

2) Think about the escorts needed to protect the tanker from the shore based facility to the designated waypoint during conflict. A Rafale M can do this far more cost effectively and practically, with a significant protective umbrella around the tanker during in-flight refueling. So one Rafale M can refuel the carrier-based AEW platform, while other Rafale Ms will provide the air protection that is required. And all the aerial platforms involved share the same mobile airbase i.e. the aircraft carrier.

3) Factor the tactical advantage this offers the CBG. We could meaningfully increase the ToS (Time on Station) of a Ka-31 AEW helo. INS Vikrant will sail with more than one Ka-31 at any given point in time, so you could theoretically rotate these birds to provide the CBG with a constant, eye-in-the-sky view in an operational theater. This is a great tactical advantage in conflict. See First, Shoot First, Kill First. And when INS Vikrant's Ka-31s need downtime for maintenance, you could send Ka-31s from the destroyers (Kolkata Class, Visakhapatnam Class) up in the air. The Indian Naval Air Arm has a total of 14 of these birds in service.

Added - i can imagine the bean counters going 'Arre you have Rafale na then why do you need refueling aircraft so urgently. Budget tight hai, Pls. adjust'

if the aircraft carrier was not mobile (i.e. Andaman & Nicobar Islands) then a shore-based tanker makes perfect sense. But CBGs are constantly on the move. That is its USP. So you have to factor mobility into the in-flight refueling equation.

[Manish_P]

...
The Rafale M operates primarily from where? @ Sea, aboard an aircraft carrier. Now when the carrier is somewhere in the Indian Ocean, how practical is it to send a wide body tanker (B737, B767, A310, A330, etc) from a shore based facility to meet up with a fighter, AEW platform, etc at a predetermined location?
...
Now obviously, a Rafale M will be able to carry a much smaller fuel load when compared to a tanker. But what the French are proving is that the Rafale M can refuel a A-400M transport, an aircraft that has an internal fuel capacity of 50,500 kg (111,300 lb). Comparatively, the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye has an internal fuel capacity of 13,690 kg (30,181 lbs).
...

Admiral sir, i am clear on the above scenario. It is quite useful to have a multi-mission aircraft which can do refueling. Not ideal but still pretty handy. Which is why i said it is good in a pinch.

...
In the Indian scenario, our Ka-31 AEW helos have an internal fuel capacity of 4,800 kg (10,582 lbs). And the Indian Navy Ka-31 AEW helos do have the plumbing installed for in-flight refueling.
...

Traditionally turbo props refuel very slow moving helicopters. Doubt a frontline fighter, even with impressive slow speed capabilities, will be used to refuel helicopters. If we need to refuel the kamov AEWs it would perhaps be better to have a turboprop tanker on board? Or a tanker variant Kamov...

3) Factor the tactical advantage this offers the CBG. We could meaningfully increase the ToS (Time on Station) of a Ka-31 AEW helo. INS Vikrant will sail with more than one Ka-31 at any given point in time, so you could theoretically rotate these birds to provide the CBG with a constant, eye-in-the-sky view in an operational theater. This is a great tactical advantage in conflict. See First, Shoot First, Kill First...

Concur 100%. All i am saying (IMVHO) it's better to have turboprop or rotorcraft refuellers on board. They can provide more juice to the thirsty - both the fast & furious and the slow & sensitive. They will be protected by the onboard fixed wing fighter component anyway. Will also help save engine and airframe life of the costly frontline birds.

Again am not saying i am against the capability, just that let the IN not compromise because of a useful but less capable solution.

PS: of course the dream is to have our own UTA unmanned tanker aircraft, carrier based version.

[Rakesh]

Rewriting the Rules of Submarine Stealth
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/12/16/su ... age_anchor
16 Dec 2024

Does the landmark AUKUS deal make sense in an age of increased ocean transparency?

[Rakesh]

Japan’s MHI Launches Tenth Mogami-Class Multirole Frigate for JMSDF
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... for-jmsdf/
19 Dec 2024

Japan is procuring compact, missile-laden multisession frigates at a rapid pace to deter China and Russia effectively in the East China Sea and the Indo-Pacific region.

[Rakesh]

Japan takes steps to win Australia’s multi-billion dollar frigate program
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... e-program/
20 Dec 2024

Japan has established a joint public-private promotion committee in a bid to win a contract to develop a new class of general-purpose frigates for the Royal Australian Navy (RAN). Meanwhile the Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Agency (ATLA) released an English language video to promote the Mogami-class to Australia.