Chinese Armed Forces: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

Chinese Type 09IIIB nuclear powered attack submarine surfaces in clearest image yet
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -in-image/
13 Oct 2024

[Rakesh]

Chinese Type 09IIIB nuclear powered attack submarine surfaces in clearest image yet
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... -in-image/
13 Oct 2024

https://x.com/Defence_IDA/status/1845387056375062670 ---> CGI of New Chinese Type 09 IIIB submarine.

[Rakesh]

China’s Large Tiltrotor Drone Breaks Cover
https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-large-ti ... eaks-cover
14 Oct 2024

[sanman]

More on China's newer smaller nuclear attack sub

[BhairavP]

https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-j-15t-en ... y-unveiled

They went ahead and developed this - no whining, no crying - just did it. Chinese engines, Chinese armament, and will now fly off all Chinese carriers. The heavy carrier-based aircraft is back!

[sanman]

https://www.twz.com/air/chinas-j-15t-en ... y-unveiled

They went ahead and developed this - no whining, no crying - just did it. Chinese engines, Chinese armament, and will now fly off all Chinese carriers. The heavy carrier-based aircraft is back!

More on this:

[sanman]

Chinese Learn to Defeat F-18 Growler

[sanman]

Mockup of China's planned 6th generation fighter concept at Zuhai airshow
Hypersonic vehicle
Ion weapons
Capable of near-space operations
Manned or unmanned?

What sort of mission is this intended for? Attacking the Death Star?

[drnayar]

Mockup of China's planned 6th generation fighter concept at Zuhai airshow
Hypersonic vehicle
Ion weapons
Capable of near-space operations
Manned or unmanned?

What sort of mission is this intended for? Attacking the Death Star?

[youtube]8v913f4tjPA[/youtube

looks more like a subsonic "fighter" , this thing wont become supersonic unless its a kind of transformer , tbh !.. wonder if it can fly in space .. can be the worlds first "space fighter" plane

[VinodTK]

China’s 99% efficient afterburner tech could make it ‘unrivaled in air combat’

Chinese scientists have developed what they claim to be the world's first near-100% efficient jet engine afterburner. If true, this new technology could give Chinese jet aircraft a significant 'edge in air combat.'

Developed by researchers at the Aero Engine Academy of China in Beijing, the new afterburner technology has a burn efficiency of over 99%. This would meet the fuel efficiency of jet engines under cruise conditions.

According to the researchers, the new afterburner reduces engine vibration by as much as 80% under maximum operational loads. Again, if the claims are true, this would make the technology very efficient and reduce the risk of engine damage to levels not seen before.

Currently, afterburners work by injecting additional fuel into the exhaust gases from a jet engine. Due to this exhaust's already very high temperatures, the fuel is ignited, creating an additional, secondary combustion phase.

Near 100% efficient afterburner

This ignition increases the volume and velocity of the exhaust gases, significantly boosting the engine's thrust. To handle the extra volume, the jet engine exhaust nozzle is typically expanded or widened to allow the added gas volume to exit the engine safely.
:
:
:
:

[ernest]

Quoting from the blogpost by Deans ji

Part 11 of my Ukraine war series, analysing the long range missiles used and their impact on the war.

https://rpdeans.blogspot.com/2024/11/uk ... e-war.html

If the JASSM is used against Russia, its characteristics will be studied and counter measures developed – as has happened for the HIMARS and storm shadow. The effectiveness of the weapon in a more important possible conflict with China will be affected

Will the characteristics of SCALP reach Chinese, and in that case how will it affect the tip of our IAF spear, Rafale?
Another example of risks of foreign weapons after Scorpene.

[Deans]

Quoting from the blogpost by Deans ji

Part 11 of my Ukraine war series, analysing the long range missiles used and their impact on the war.

https://rpdeans.blogspot.com/2024/11/uk ... e-war.html

If the JASSM is used against Russia, its characteristics will be studied and counter measures developed – as has happened for the HIMARS and storm shadow. The effectiveness of the weapon in a more important possible conflict with China will be affected

Will the characteristics of SCALP reach Chinese, and in that case how will it affect the tip of our IAF spear, Rafale?
Another example of risks of foreign weapons after Scorpene.

One Scalp was apparently recovered in good shape - Russian TV showed it.
One further batch - probably the last batch France could supply before the govt falls was destroyed when the train carrying them
was blown up when it entered Ukraine - WW2 style partisans observed the train and called in a missile strike.

[ernest]

One Scalp was apparently recovered in good shape - Russian TV showed it.
One further batch - probably the last batch France could supply before the govt falls was destroyed when the train carrying them
was blown up when it entered Ukraine - WW2 style partisans observed the train and called in a missile strike.

Thanks. The partisans calling airstrike thing is a very serious challenge for us, given the infiltration of shady NGOs and Chinese/US cameras and security equipment. Our failure to grow a IT/CS tech industry will be a major liability. China did well to block off western companies and develop its own.

[sanman]

An In-Depth Look at China's J-35

Google summary of the video:

- The Shenyang FC-31, originally a competitor to the J-20, became a privately funded venture.
- The FC-31 was publicly unveiled in 2014 but faded into obscurity.
- In 2024, the J-35A, a land-based multi-role aircraft derived from the FC-31, was unveiled at the Zhuhai Air Show.
- The J-35A features a sleeker airframe, new canopy, smaller wings, and improved stealth technology.
- The J-31B is a carrier-based variant of the J-31, designed to replace the J-15 on China's third aircraft carrier, the Fujian.
- The J-31C is a smaller naval variant, possibly an earlier iteration of the J-31B.
- A twin-seat variant, the J-35S, is rumored to be under development.
- The J-35A has a claimed combat range of 1,200 km, a top speed of Mach 1.8, and a service ceiling of over 50,000 ft.
- The J-35's airframe is designed for stealth, with a low radar cross-section and radar-absorbent materials.
- The J-35 is powered by the WS-19 engine, which is still under development.
- The J-35's agility and handling characteristics are still unknown.
- The J-35 is intended to be a more affordable and exportable alternative to the J-20.
- The J-35 will likely be equipped with the KLJ-7A AESA radar and the EOTS-86 electro-optical targeting system.
- The J-35's sensor fusion system and helmet-mounted display are similar to those found on the F-35.
- The J-35 is not expected to outperform the F-35 in all areas, but it is a capable and affordable multi-role fighter.

[Rakesh]

Closing the gap: China homes in on US Navy VLS advantage
https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis/mi ... advantage/
20 Dec 2024

China’s rapid naval advance saw it pass the milestone in 2024 of achieving more than 50% of the US Navy’s firepower in vertical launch system missile cells on its surface ships, with the gap still closing.

[sanman]

China's Million Loitering Drone Munitions - how do we handle the challenge?

[TVenky]

China‘s 6th generation fighter has made its maiden flight today!

https://x.com/rupprechtdeino/status/187 ... gL5XbABHPA

https://x.com/someplaosint/status/18722 ... gL5XbABHPA

[sanman]

China‘s 6th generation fighter has made its maiden flight today!

https://x.com/rupprechtdeino/status/187 ... gL5XbABHPA

https://x.com/someplaosint/status/18722 ... gL5XbABHPA

Is this thing for real?

[Baikul]

2002- the J10 becomes operational. By 2021 it is using the domestically produced WS-10B engine.

2017 - the J20 becomes operational; using the domestically produced WS-10C engine

2024- the J35 is undergoing flight testing, with reportedly the WS-13E (FC-31) or WS-21 (J-35) engines

2024- the 6 th gen NGAD makes its maiden public flight. And it’s not one but two prototypes.

Is this thing for real?

So yeah very real.

What we have done since 2002 is also a matter of public record.

[Manish_P]

Nothing a committee can't fix...

[ernest]

Nothing a committee can't fix...

[rant]
a 6th gen committee no less

Bound to happen, when we produce far fewer engineering grads, and export a major chunk of them. Then stymie the productivity of those that are left behind, with bureaucracy/regulation, meagre funding, and reservations.

Many of us would recall, when drones took off in a major way in 2010s, any hobbyist/ small org in India could not build / fly their own without running into some stupid law. Drone policy (pretty restrictive) was not released till almost a decade later.

We have failed to create domestic ecosystem, failed to iterate on decent products, and did not order in sufficient quantities if at all. None of the aerospace grads from my circle went into aerospace industry in India. They either went abroad, or working in software/MBA type of job.

[/rant]

If we take the right lessons, we would be sanctioning as many programs as feasible with existing engines. Freeze engine configurations for Kaveri, and get it certified asap and integrate with Tejas variants. Then other designs with Kaveri.
Get HTFE engine development up and running. get a version certified and start production.
Speed up production for STFE and other small aero engines including PTAE-7.
Push hard on UCAVs like CATS system and Ghatak

viewtopic.php?p=2636149#p2636149

Next, order in bulk all the missiles that we have ready. there are at least a dozen designs that are awaiting orders. This is one area where we are at the cutting edge. Would be shame if we lose this too due to the same penny pinching that we did with aero engines and aircraft. Tactical missiles for attack roles (BMs/LACMs) and SAMs will also offset some shortage in airframes.

[Tanaji]

China reveals a new tactical stealth jet:

https://x.com/Justin_Br0nk/status/1872226113658949937

https://aviationweek.com/defense/aircra ... rge-flight


We are out matched in numbers and quality now. Anyone with a ounce of foresight would have seen this 10 years ago. Everyone except the IAF air marshals that is.

An entire decade wasted lusting for pie in the sky dreams of MMRCA in numbers thst were unaffordable with no plan B. Other than “ we will fight with what wehave”.

What we have is now 30 squadrons…

[sanman]

What we have done since 2002 is also a matter of public record.

I couldn't find anything

... oh... wait...

[Cain Marko]

What we have done since 2002 is also a matter of public record.

I couldn't find anything

... oh... wait...

Haha. Good one. Jokes apart, it is only a matter of time before the China Pak Nexus starts sporting all sorts of stealth tech. India seems to be caught like a deer in headlights....
Maybe the rumored purchases of Russian voronez radars will counter this. Combine this with tons of hypersonic missiles and ucav as primary attack assets. The response has to be asymmetric and needs to be designed and developed with what tech we already have or almost have. I think India can safely ignore IAF now and keep the sqds around 30-35 mainly for imposing nfz and exploiting gaps after the missiles do their job.
Matching the enemy with numbers and quality won't work.

[Rakesh]

Threat Alarm: China acquiring 1 million loitering munitions
https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2024/ ... n-warfare/
25 Dec 2024

[Rakesh]

Yes, China Just Flew Another Tailless Next-Generation Stealth Combat Aircraft
https://www.twz.com/air/yes-china-just- ... t-aircraft
26 Dec 2024

In less than 24 hours, two previously unseen Chinese advanced combat jet designs have broken cover and both are already undergoing flight testing.

[TVenky]

Now that we are at least 2 generation behind in aeroengines tech and we will never get into race with them in foreseeable future. What we could possibly consider and do the needful, with war footing, is to be develop an 'antidote'...
I tend to believe we can develop powerful 'anti-stealth radar' and much faster and easily than an 5G/6G aeroengine. These anti-stealth radar must be intentionally make 5g and this new 6G planes either fully or partially useless.
This will not only affect militarily but also affect its 'sale' and proliferation to our other enemies / unfriendly countries.

[srai]

Threat Alarm: China acquiring 1 million loitering munitions
https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2024/ ... n-warfare/
25 Dec 2024

^^^
Anyone following the Russian-Ukraine war would see the need for millions of drones.

Yet to hear of Indian armed forces ordering anything close to those quantities. Still stuck at piecemeal orders of few tens or at most a few hundred.

[Rakesh]

China breaks the mould with new stealth aircraft
https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/ ... h-aircraft
27 Dec 2024

[Rakesh]

China’s Monster Type 076 Amphibious Assault Ship Seen Like Never Before At Launch Ceremony
https://www.twz.com/sea/chinas-monster- ... h-ceremony
27 Dec 2024

The Type 076 is unlike any other big deck amphibious warship, featuring a catapult for launching advanced unmanned aircraft.

[srai]

^^^

It seems all the Chinese efforts (i.e. LR stealth bombers along with naval large DDG, amphibious assault/aircraft carriers and a variety of SSMs) point towards breaking the “containment” island chain strategy by the US and its allies.


https://amti.csis.org/chinas-reach-grow ... hain-jpeg/

Taiwan is crucial to breaking the 1st & 2nd island chains blockade.

[sanman]

China breaks the mould with new stealth aircraft
https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/ ... h-aircraft
27 Dec 2024

So from what I'm hearing, the fact that it has 3 engines is due to China's compromise in not being able to build the one amazing engine that can do all things.

So we have 2 engines of one type, meant for high-energy combat maneuvers, and then in between sits a single engine of another type, which can do long-range flight while sipping fuel economically.

So this means this aircraft amounts to a fighter-bomber.

Is that a reasonable assessment?

[drnayar]

China breaks the mould with new stealth aircraft
https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/ ... h-aircraft
27 Dec 2024

So from what I'm hearing, the fact that it has 3 engines is due to China's compromise in not being able to build the one amazing engine that can do all things.

So we have 2 engines of one type, meant for high-energy combat maneuvers, and then in between sits a single engine of another type, which can do long-range flight while sipping fuel economically.

So this means this aircraft amounts to a fighter-bomber.

Is that a reasonable assessment?

that also means China did not wait for the uber engine to be developed completely !!

there is a fair bit to be learnt from them

[drnayar]

Yes, China Just Flew Another Tailless Next-Generation Stealth Combat Aircraft
https://www.twz.com/air/yes-china-just- ... t-aircraft
26 Dec 2024

In less than 24 hours, two previously unseen Chinese advanced combat jet designs have broken cover and both are already undergoing flight testing.

24 hours for us, but the defence/ military intelligence India/ US etc would have known this for years !! .. one wonders what changes it made to IAF procurement plans ?!! .. the layman would be forgiven for knee jerk comments of getting F35 etc [ stupid idea but anyway]

[Manish_P]

...

24 hours for us, but the defence/ military intelligence India/ US etc would have known this for years !! ..

Even on these forums it has been known and discussed over the years.

Posters like 'Chola' have shared tidbits on these programs. And at times were derided for doing so.

[Rakesh]

24 hours for us, but the defence/ military intelligence India/ US etc would have known this for years !! .. one wonders what changes it made to IAF procurement plans ?!! .. the layman would be forgiven for knee jerk comments of getting F35 etc [ stupid idea but anyway]

viewtopic.php?p=2636505#p2636505

[pravula]

China breaks the mould with new stealth aircraft
https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/ ... h-aircraft
27 Dec 2024

So from what I'm hearing, the fact that it has 3 engines is due to China's compromise in not being able to build the one amazing engine that can do all things.

So we have 2 engines of one type, meant for high-energy combat maneuvers, and then in between sits a single engine of another type, which can do long-range flight while sipping fuel economically.

So this means this aircraft amounts to a fighter-bomber.

Is that a reasonable assessment?

APUs were/are common a while back. It could be powering just the radar/ecm/eccm systems.

[fanne]

I am shuddering if Chinese have called it 7th gen fighter. We would have committed mass suicide. (But the plane at best is 4.5++)

[sanman]

So from what I'm hearing, the fact that it has 3 engines is due to China's compromise in not being able to build the one amazing engine that can do all things.

So we have 2 engines of one type, meant for high-energy combat maneuvers, and then in between sits a single engine of another type, which can do long-range flight while sipping fuel economically.

So this means this aircraft amounts to a fighter-bomber.

Is that a reasonable assessment?

APUs were/are common a while back. It could be powering just the radar/ecm/eccm systems.

But APU on a twin-engined aircraft? And with a ram intake on top?
It looks like it's there for propulsion.

How much radar do you need on a stealth aircraft?

[srai]

So from what I'm hearing, the fact that it has 3 engines is due to China's compromise in not being able to build the one amazing engine that can do all things.

So we have 2 engines of one type, meant for high-energy combat maneuvers, and then in between sits a single engine of another type, which can do long-range flight while sipping fuel economically.

So this means this aircraft amounts to a fighter-bomber.

Is that a reasonable assessment?

that also means China did not wait for the uber engine to be developed completely !!

there is a fair bit to be learnt from them

Back when Kaveri first flew in Russian IL-76 test bed some two decades ago, the Chinese were there as well with their engine. Apparently, Kaveri performed per expectations while the Chinese one failed.

Many years later to this day, Chinese have multiple engines flying on various platforms while Kaveri still sits in the lab