Light Utility Helicopter: News & Discussion: 06 Feb 2021

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AnilBhambhani11/status/18 ... 2479260719 ---> LUH PT1 flying in Exercise Tarang Shakti 2024-1 at Sulur AFS. Showcasing HAL’s rotary wing product line up. Photo credit @zone5aviation.

[JTull]

Tarang Shakti appears to be an exhibition rather than a serious exercise. Prototype LUH and LSP LCH are being paraded without any operational value in an international exercise. IAF isn't even close to an order for either.

[rrao]

MoD has given permission to HAL to demonstrate their products in an international arena. what is the takleef tull ji ji

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1833418558161682607 ---> HAL Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) under construction at helicopter division.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/NewsIADN/status/1833418558161682607 ---> HAL Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) under construction at helicopter division.

Based on the first picture in the post above, is this tweet below.

https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1834170958820614370 ---> Photo of 7th of 12 ordered HAL's Light Utility Helicopter (LUH).

[Rakesh]

As Army awaits new utility helicopters, Cheetah, Cheetal remain lifelines in high altitude areas
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 683203.ece
26 Sept 2024

While the Army’s efforts to replace the vintage Cheetah and Chetak utility helicopters continues, officials at the Aviation Brigade in Leh explained how they along with the Cheetal as well as the Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH) continue to remain a lifeline for supporting troops in the high altitude areas, including Siachen glacier.

The indigenous Light Utility Helicopter (LUH), manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), meant to replace the Cheetah and Chetak is taking shape but behind schedule, officials said. “The Army needs 225 LUH and a deal for 110 LUH is currently in the cost negotiation stage,” a defence source stated. Their induction in enough numbers is going to take sometime, another source said.

Officers and technicians at the Army Aviation Brigade in Leh, which operates ALH, Cheetals and Unmanned Aerial vehicles, explained how these helicopters are a lifeline in supplying logistics, casualty evacuation among other roles in the forward most areas of Ladakh. The Cheetal is an upgraded version of the Cheetah, featuring the same engine as the ALH MK1 and Mk2, explained Maj. Ayush Devliyal from the Corps of Electronics and Mechanical Engineers (EME). The Cheetal holds the record for landing at an altitude of 23,000 feet.

Since the May 2020 standoff with China in Eastern Ladakh, which is still underway, the Army has carried a major reorientation of troops towards the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and several thousand troops were inducted into the area which meant extending the logistics and supply chains, both by road and through the air to support them. Army Aviation too has upped its tempo of operations to cater to the requirements of troops support, surveillance and being ready for operations if needed.

Giving a sense of their tasks, Col. Randeep Pathania, Commanding Officer of the ALH squadron, noted how varied the terrain is. We have icy heights of glacier, we have heights but dry deserts of Eastern Ladakh, we have hilly terrain or high mountains of Western Ladakh which is Drass and Kargil, he noted. “Each sector we have fragmented here is unique and definitely a very challenging and difficult terrain, he said speaking to a few visiting journalists last weekend. We need to understand the machine and all aspects related to the machine so that we can undertake flying here. The tasks here are very essential.”

The entire aim is to have synergy between, not only with other aviation assets, but also with ground formations, observed Lt. Col. Amit Ansal also from EME. “The Aviation squadron regularly practices with various formations so that one plan can come out and the role is understood by one and all during operations.”

Highlighting an important aspect, Brig. Gurdeep Singh commanding the Aviation Brigade said the civil administration also requisitions them for number of tasks. The recently concluded Lok Sabha elections, there are some areas which even in summers are cut off, so induction of polling officials along with Electronic Voting Machines (EVM), we did that, he said. “Number of posts in Zanskar area, where we flew almost 80 hours utilising a number of helicopters for inducting polling officials, security officials and EVMs and de-inducting them.”

Army Aviation has three Brigades at Leh, Missamari and Jodhpur operating around 190 Cheetah, Chetak and Cheetal helicopters, 145 ALH, 75 of which are the Rudra weaponised variants and 25 ALH Mk-III on order in addition to the Light Combat Helicopter under induction. Of the 190 Cheetah, Chetaks, and Cheetals in service, around 134 helicopters or over 70% of them are over 30 years old, as reported by The Hindu earlier.

[Rakesh]

As Army awaits new utility helicopters, Cheetah, Cheetal remain lifelines in high altitude areas
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 683203.ece
26 Sept 2024

https://x.com/wartrophy_414/status/1839301872919982289 ---> We need to replace 400+ Cheetah & Chetak. A massive plant to produce new LUHs has been established, but because order "price negotiation phase" mai hai. At the same time over 70% of Army's Cheetah and Chetak fleet are more than 30 years old. A show of the best defence procurement in the world.

https://x.com/wartrophy_414/status/1839303208050765947 ---> Also it should be a whitepill. Army alone needs 225-250LUH for just replacements of Cheetah/Chetak, it might increase more for aviation brigade expansion. Coupled with IAF's 120 LUH and Navy's 60-80 NUH (LUH-derivative) at peak, we are looking at 400+ of these beauties to be built.

[srai]

^^^
GoI (and all its ministries and armed services) can’t get to the dotted line even for IDDM products that are ready … let’s create an emergency so that imports can be fast tracked instead

[Rakesh]

Indigenous marine utility copter set to fly by May next year
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 403511.cms
20 October 2024

[Rakesh]

Indigenous marine utility copter set to fly by May next year
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 403511.cms
20 October 2024

From Vice Admiral Girish Luthra (retd)...

https://x.com/girish_luthra/status/1848219850910453873 ---> We initiated the Utility Helicopter case in 2008. Called it NUH, to distinguish it from LUH. Around 2017-18, the case was shifted to the Strategic Partnership (SP) model, followed by 2-3 years of work, before being scrapped. Hopefully, UH Maritime project will now be expedited.

[basant]

Saw this post by Admiral a little late, but sums up the malice perfectly. "The Army needs 225 LUH and a deal for 110 LUH is currently in the cost negotiation stage...". Given the fact that these are from a PSU, I think they should order first with certain amount and continue price negotiations. It will save a few years.

[Manish_P]

....Given the fact that these are from a PSU, I think they should order first with certain amount and continue price negotiations....

How can an order be placed without knowing the price?

Especially for a product which has several components being procured from different OEMs, with some of them being located overseas and hence subject to variance in rupee conversion rates.

[sanjayc]

Can the LCH model be followed, with some 15 to 20 built and kept ready for immediate delivery

[A Deshmukh]

HAL is already building facilities to manufacture the LUH, without waiting for the order.

[basant]

How can an order be placed without knowing the price?

Especially for a product which has several components being procured from different OEMs, with some of them being located overseas and hence subject to variance in rupee conversion rates.

I said that in half jest, but think about which is crazier. 2-3 years of price negotiation between GoI and a PSU or production of fighter a/c by a PSU before price negotiations.

The following shows the production of F-35s in the USA. BTW, IIRC IOC was achieved in 2016.

Source: ANALYSIS: F-35 production ready to soar in 2019 (Flight Global)

[isubodh]

Can the LCH model be followed, with some 15 to 20 built and kept ready for immediate delivery

Seriously ?

[mody]

HAL already is manufacturing 12 LSP models against an MoD indent. These will get ready by next year. I think Autopilot feature of the helis was demanded by IAF before accepting the delivery.
Price negotiation taking 2+ years for an IDDM product, between the MoD and MoD controlled PSU is just criminal.
The requirement is for more than 400 of these helicopters. The new Tumkur manufacturing facility is supposed to manufacture these birds.
More than the price negotiations, delivery timeline negotiations are of higher importance. Even HAL can start delivering 36 of these helis per year from 2026 onwards, it would take 12 years to fulfill the IA/IAF requirement.

Apart from this, HAL would have to deliver 141 LCH (deducting the 15 LSP models) and about 100 NUH (based on the ALH and not LUH) in the same timeframe. Fingers crossed the Indian Medium Lift helicopter would also probably be ready for production by the end of the decade. Between the 3 services, a minimum of 300-400 of these helicopters would also be required.
MoD/HAL should target a delivery of 48 LUH birds per annum from 2026 onwards, such that post 2032, part of the facility can be converted to manufacture of medium category helicopters.

[konaseema]

Even though there is a large demand for LUH across all services, there will be demand from Indian Coast Guard & our various Para military forces as well. Since this is not a like for like replacement for existing Chetak, Cheetal & Cheetah (the need is more than these old birds our services fly), all the 3 services will need to augment their pilot strength and ground crew / maintenance crew etc. So even if HAL were to churn more copters, the readiness of our services to absorb all of them needs to be considered as well. Having said that, it has been more than a decade since HAL started the serial manufacturing of ALH and the orders are still coming in for various versions of ALH. So the 300-400 we are talking about, has the potential to reach 500 levels over the next 1-2 decades.

[konaseema]

Here are the number of the different versions of ALH Dhruv (sourced from Wikipedia).

Armed Forces HAL Dhruv HAL Rudra HAL Prachand Total
In Service Ordered In Service Ordered In Service Ordered
Indian Air Force 95 0 16 50 10 66 237
Indian Army 76 19 75 0 5 90 265
Indian Navy 24 0 0 0 0 0 24
Indian Coastal Guard 20 9 0 0 0 0 29
215 28 91 50 15 156 555

[srai]

For IDDM to prosper, public entity HAL, acting as the lead designer & final integrator, would need to build Tier-1 assembly partnerships with large Indian conglomerates like Tata, L&T, Adani, Mahindra, etc. Major subassemblies would need to be distributed to expand capacity. Rather than seen as competitors, it should be seen more as enablers to win the hearts and minds of the GoI, MoD, MoF and armed services.

It would mitigate the current trend where the likes of Adani are basically masquerading screwdriver-giri license assembly of foreign OEMs as MII

[Bharadwaj]

I hope this is the light at the end of the tunnel.

LUH production drag getting over, HAL to be read to ink deal in 2nd quarter
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 091982.ece
12 January 2025

Top HAL sources said that the production timelines of the LUH went haywire because the flight control system or auto pilot software purchased from the Safran Electronics was delayed, first due to Covid pandemic influenced supply constraints and subsequently due to other reasons at their end.

Now the HAL has got the flight control system software, which has two parts including for basic stablisation, and it has been installed in the LUH body. The software is undergoing certification testing, besides the Maharatna defence PSU is also in the process of fixing some other issues, Defence Public Sector Undertakings (DPSU) sources stated.

[mody]

Some reports suggest that the noise level of LUH is higher than what is desired and now HAL is trying to look for consultants to help solve the issue.
I hope this does not delay the induction and the work to reduce the noise levels can progress in parallel.

[Avinandan]

May be HAL should think about Blue Edge Helicopter blades now.

[Bharadwaj]

Some reports suggest that the noise level of LUH is higher than what is desired and now HAL is trying to look for consultants to help solve the issue.
I hope this does not delay the induction and the work to reduce the noise levels can progress in parallel.

I suspect that is what the international lab in the Netherlands mentioned in the Hindu article is being bought in for.

[ernest]

Some reports suggest that the noise level of LUH is higher than what is desired and now HAL is trying to look for consultants to help solve the issue.
I hope this does not delay the induction and the work to reduce the noise levels can progress in parallel.

per Alpha Defence, it is to comply with new standards for noise released in 2015. It complies with older standards in force when it was designed

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1888818684917063912 ---> Dr D K Sunil, CMD inaugurated the HAL stall HALL E along with Directors and senior leaders at Aero India 2025. LUH is the highlight of the HAL pavilion.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1889528763928682701 ---> Shri Sanjeev Kumar, Secretary (DP) flew along with Shri Rajeev Prakash, JS (Aero/NS) & Dr D K Sunil, CMD, HAL in LUH LSP (Army version) at @AeroIndiaShow piloted by HAL's Chief Test Pilot Gp Capt MR Anand & Wg Cdr Bhambhani.

[rrao]

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1888818684917063912 ---> Dr D K Sunil, CMD inaugurated the HAL stall HALL E along with Directors and senior leaders at Aero India 2025. LUH is the highlight of the HAL pavilion.

There is an obvious pal of gloom on the faces of HAL directors while HAL CMD is lighting the lamp. There was a discussion on HAL on India Today TV, the anchor was whipping HAL after the Air Chief's dressing down of HAL. There were two participants - one was an ex-fighter pilot and the other was Air Marshal Matheswaran (retd). Mr Matheswaran stated that the problem doesn't lie with HAL alone and is a common problem with all public sector organizations in India.

Air Chief Red Flags HAL Delays | Can India Catch Up With China In Aerospace? | India Today Debate

Air Chief Marshal AP Singh has criticised Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for delays and inefficiency in aircraft production. Experts discuss HAL's challenges, including supply chain issues, lack of competition, and need for reforms. They suggest solutions like public-private partnerships, two-engine policy for Tejas, and establishing a National Aeronautics Commission to improve India's aerospace capabilities.

[rrao]

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1888818684917063912 ---> Dr D K Sunil, CMD inaugurated the HAL stall HALL E along with Directors and senior leaders at Aero India 2025. LUH is the highlight of the HAL pavilion.

There is an obvious pal of gloom on the faces of HAL directors while HAL CMD is lighting the lamp. There was a discussion on HAL on India Today TV, the anchor was whipping HAL after the Air Chief's dressing down of HAL. There were two participants - one was an ex-fighter pilot and the other was Air Marshal Matheswaran (retd). Mr Matheswaran stated that the problem doesn't lie with HAL alone and is a common problem with all public sector organizations in India.

IAF Chief might have laid out the red carpet for F-35

[Bharadwaj]

The question pertinent to this thread is - WHEN IS LUH GETTING DELIVERED?

HAL CMD in his press conference at Aero India 2025, stated that the AFCS is on the verge of getting certified. Is that the end? Because there was noise about the noise in the chopper. The COAS was kicking the tires of the Airbus Fennec at the show.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1890327769059303672 ---> The Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal AP Singh flew the Light Utility Helicopter @AeroIndiashow and expressed his satisfaction over the flying experience and aircraft performance.

[Bharadwaj]

An RFI for 1,000 observation helicopters is out from MoD. I hope the bird in this thread gets at least half of that.

[Rakesh]

An RFI for 1,000 observation helicopters is out from MoD. I hope the bird in this thread gets at least half of that.

Can you provide link to RFI please?

[Bharadwaj]

https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/india-pl ... 14.htm/amp

Some articles talking about the Fennec and Ka-226 being in the fray in addition to LUH. Understandable since a single manufacturer will have trouble meeting such a large requirement.

[Rakesh]

Thank you Bharadwaj.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/HALHQBLR/status/1890327769059303672 ---> The Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal AP Singh flew the Light Utility Helicopter @AeroIndiashow and expressed his satisfaction over the flying experience and aircraft performance.

https://x.com/Devansh010/status/1890383694927454590 ---> CAS, ACM AP Singh flying HAL LUH light utility helicopter.

[Rakesh]

Tata and Airbus Set To Build H125 Helicopters in India
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ters-india
17 Feb 2025

Single-engined rotorcraft will compete with Hindustan Aeronautics’ Light Utility Helicopter

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/adgpi/status/1894723466395283800 ---> General Upendra Dwivedi, COAS visited the Airbus Facility at Marseille where he was briefed on cutting edge aviation technology, defence systems and aerospace engineering that Airbus has pioneered. This visit underscores the Indian Army's commitment to leveraging global aerospace innovations to enhance operational capabilities and strengthen defence preparedness, especially in the rotary wing aviation.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/adgpi/status/1894723466395283800 ---> General Upendra Dwivedi, COAS visited the Airbus Facility at Marseille where he was briefed on cutting edge aviation technology, defence systems and aerospace engineering that Airbus has pioneered. This visit underscores the Indian Army's commitment to leveraging global aerospace innovations to enhance operational capabilities and strengthen defence preparedness, especially in the rotary wing aviation.

https://x.com/wartrophy_414/status/1894728375110865099 ---> I would have understood if they simply wrote "he was briefed" but WTF is this? Tell me which requirement in rotary aviation IA has, that it needs to leverage global aerospace innovations?

https://x.com/hukum2082/status/1895054220354859477 ---> TASL and @AirbusHeli are setting up a H125 FAL (Final Assembly Line) in Anantapur. The H125’s engine and gearbox will come from France, the main airframe from Germany and the tail boom from Spain. #ScrewInIndia

https://x.com/kachra_seth123/status/1894741888344657937 ---> Purana 70s ka kabaad khareedne ka kuch jyada hi shauk hai inhe. HAL ki factory visit nahi karenge kabhi LUH ko inspect karne.

https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1894764151987442115 ---> COAS is inspecting a H125M here. It is an armed variant of Airbus civil H125 (which will be made by Tata in India). Army should focus on leveraging local aerospace innovations. No alternative to the HAL LUH, a private firm can always be brought in for licensed production if required.

https://x.com/paramdane/status/1894784300161069120 ---> Import Bahadur Itinerary

> wake up
> wear camo
> put bright-ass patches on the said camo
> foreign trip
> salivate over decades old junk because foren maal
> DRDO bad reee, stopgap import reee
> sleep

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/18 ... 5786909132 ---> So it's all but confirmed now that the Tata-Airbus H-125 Final Assembly Line will be located in Bengaluru.