Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

[Rakesh]

Defence ministry mulls umbrella body to flight-test & evaluate all aircraft, choppers, drones & weapons
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 301284.cms
17 Oct 2024

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/livefist/status/1863916739886530776 ---> Fresh in from the Indian MoD’s Defence Acquisition Council:

[ramana]

PIB release on CCS decisions:

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=2080155

[srin]

^^^DAC only saar not yet at CCS level

[sanman]

Russia, India and Jet Engine



- the usual preamble about how we don't yet have an engine for our Tejas jets
- some of our key existing jets depend on Russian engines
- seeking to manufacture improved versions of those engines
- Rajnath visiting Russia, may discuss those engines, nothing to do with Tejas

[drnayar]

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/in ... 12804.html

India Eyes russian Voronezh Over-the-Horizon Radar


Voronezh-M radar


Voronezh-DM radar


NB : images are open source

[drnayar]

x post

So what's with this radar that desh seems to be interested in? it's only real use is wrt ICBMs and therefore, may serve as a part of the nations BMD I'm guessing.

Having said that it supposed to have powerful over the horizon capabilities, which makes little sense because I'm not seeing how you can overcome los and curvature issues. Unless it can be used in connection with other powerful radars like those of the s400 complex. I'm wondering if there's some secret sauce that allows local sam batteries to get targeting plots from this beast?

Supposedly, the idea is to install this somewhere near chitradurga, which should give India a very clear sight into the IOR as well?

https://sundayguardianlive.com/news/ind ... dar-system

[ The Voronezh radar can detect more than 500 objects simultaneously. While its overall range can go up to 10,000 kilometers, it's vertical range exceeds 8,000 km and horizon range is over 6,000 km. Moscow claims that the Voronezh radar system can even track stealth aircraft.]


apparently the requirement is for three strategic radars , E/N , W/N and South .,

i presume the one in chitradurga could cover the whole of IOR

at 6000 km it can cover upto north Australia, eastern europe, central asia, almost all of IOR.,
at 10000km [ max] , whole of Asia, Africa, China !

one can just guess the power requirements of this behemoth !

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/SJha1618/status/1866533258613113257 ---> The Indian Defence Minister's reported statement on India-Russia ties during the meeting with Putin:

'Higher than the Highest Mountain'
'Deeper than the Deepest Ocean'

This even as the BJP openly accuses the US of direct political interference.

Not insignificant.

[Rakesh]

At this rate, we might have to open up a thread like this on BRF ---> viewtopic.php?t=7780

Just to whet the MUTU appetite

https://x.com/Tej_Intel/status/1866479396363837802 ---> Rajnath Singh in Russia - a very very significant visit. Not there just for inauguration of INS Tushil. Some major areas include:

1) Building ground for Putin visit
2) co-development projects
3) SSK
4) Modular reactors
4) Aero-engine
5) the most important - unconfirmed - will share

[maitya]

...
5) the most important - unconfirmed - will share

Now, now ... why does this smack of FGFA (the Lic Mfg option) once again
I just pray and hope, if this indeed happens, Izdeliya-30 deep lic mfg is intrinsically linked to it.

And of course, 2 Sqns of direct purchase of Su-57, within next 5 years, is linked* with it ... will address the fifth-gen-nood-till-2035 issue, fair and square. However does Russia have the wherewithal to produce and deliver them, in time - I doubt!!

Added Later:
*Something like, Su-30K:Su-30MKI::Su-57:FGFA - a whiff of late 90s once again, Project Vetrivale and the whole works!!
Only this time around, I hope and pray, we negotiate hard (and not hardly a la late-90s) wrt the Lic Mfg agreements vis-a-vis this whole "manufacturing from raw material" nonsense, and mandatorily include clauses wrt freedom to introduce indigenous parts/system replacements without voiding the whole-platform warranty etc.
But then again, contract adherence etc, with mother Russia is well ...

[maitya]

...
3) SSK
...

That's interesting, so we have the Kalvari class (3 more coming), P-75I and then P-76s coming up ... on the top of it, why more SSKs?
Interesting indeed ... so are we looking at Amur-950* again - sort of an one-to-one replacement program for the Sindhughosh class!!

======================================================================================================
*Note - the AIP-extn-plug option wala.

[fanne]

From my limited understanding and reading - Amur 950 does not look very advanced than Scorpene. Why are we going backwards? What is it USP?
Maybe because Amur 950 with AIP is very cheap, small, stealthy. It's like LCA mk1 to Mk2? We need these in numbers (as they are cheaper) to operate near our water and perhaps we are getting full ToT. Russia has not made any and may not be in position to make, so they will get their money and transfer manufacturing to us?

[maitya]

From my limited understanding and reading - Amur 950 does not look very advanced than Scorpene. Why are we going backwards? What is it USP?
Maybe because Amur 950 with AIP is very cheap, small, stealthy. It's like LCA mk1 to Mk2? We need these in numbers (as they are cheaper) to operate near our water and perhaps we are getting full ToT. Russia has not made any and may not be in position to make, so they will get their money and transfer manufacturing to us?

fanne-ji, from my limited understanding of this whole saga, the only diff between the smaller Amur-950 vs larger Amur-1650 offering, is the integrated VLS tube (tailor-made for Brahmos) in Amur-950. Apart from that, precious little is known about both of them, both being more of a paper design currently.
(also known is that both are single-hulled design, as opposed to traditional Russki double-hull design - which is the key reason why such a fantastic weight/displacement has been achieved)

Remember the 1650s were offered for the 75-I program, only to be quickly back-paddled, once it become quite clear that the "in-operation FC AIP" requirement is non-negotiable.
Both 950 and 1650, are supposed to provide "compatibility" (whatever hell that means), for integrating an "separate" AIP plug, on customer's demand. While P-75I was all about OEM bringing it's own FCAIP tech, along-with the main submarine itself.

And the 1650s are ultra close to the Kalvari class wrt displacements - I mean both advertise their non-AIP version submerged displacements in 1700-1800Ton class. So, as a corollary, both of their displacements will go to ~2K-2.2K Ton levels, once DRDO FCAIP is integrated with them.

Having said that, given the way this OEM-supplied-FCAIP requirement stands today, both from TKMS and Navantia, it's all but logical for the Russkies to argue for a separate independent program for DRDO-AIP as a plug to the Amur-950 (or even Amur-1650).
And Russkies would then argue, here this is your Sindhughosh replacement program - main boat (with VLS) from us, your AIP.

Do remember, none of our SSKs currently, or via P75 or P75I programs, have a VLS option - the second key requirement of the P75I (and also P76), which is all but forgotten in this P75-I milieu.

Maybe navy feels, a partnership is best option for P76 program - and it's good hedge vis-a-vis the 6+3 P75/Kalvari class.

What a mess/muddle this whole thing is turning out to be ...

[fanne]

I think few things unspoken is this
1) DRDO AIP is not ready. Hopefully it is question of when and not if
2) We cannot make any submarine 100% on our own, in spite of any number of ToT or Tost. If we can get that capability 100%, we may be willing for a slightly not so advanced sub. Having written that I doubt though, L&T has mad a 600t sub on its own (but may be parts from outside?). Hoping this is where 950 comes in.
3) Till we get an Indian design and built sub, just for risk mitigation, we will have to have a sub line from west and a sub linfrom east.

[maitya]

^^^^^^^ Yeah, given the perilous state IN sub-surface programs are currently in, parallel programs are an absolute necessity - so yes, one from east in parallel to the other from west, is a very good initiative.
Betw, I think it'll be Amur-1650 and not 950 - it's not that difficult for the Russkies to peddle a similar VLS arrangement in 1650s as well, having done that in the much smaller 950s.

[Rakesh]

^^^^^^^ Yeah, given the perilous state IN sub-surface programs are currently in, parallel programs are an absolute necessity - so yes, one from east in parallel to the other from west, is a very good initiative.
Betw, I think it'll be Amur-1650 and not 950 - it's not that difficult for the Russkies to peddle a similar VLS arrangement in 1650s as well, having done that in the much smaller 950s.

Project 75: Scorpene (6 + 3)
Project 75I: TKMS or Navantia
Project 76: Amur successor (known as Project Kalina)*

*We will build this in India and shamelessly call it indigenous. Will feature a lot of Indian kit though on-board, so the indigenous label will be justified as per the stakeholders. Sab Kuch Teek Hai!

[Rakesh]

As govt looks to overhaul defence ecosystem, top officials suggest faster procurement, more R&D funds
https://theprint.in/defence/as-govt-loo ... s/2438389/
09 Jan 2025

[srai]

^^^
Third term “lucky”?

[Rakesh]

Defence infra proposals for capacity enhancement in Ladakh get wildlife panel’s nod
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne ... 084990.ece
10 Jan 2025

The proposed facilities are supposed to come up in the protected Changthang High Altitude Cold Desert Wildlife Sanctuary and the Karakorum Nubra Shyok Wildlife Sanctuary: say MoD officials

[Rakesh]

India joins Eurodrone Programme as newest OCCAR Observer State
https://www.occar.int/news/india-joins- ... ver-state-
21 Jan 2025

https://x.com/AirbusDefence/status/1881698597852373141 ----> Airbus welcomes India as an observer to the Eurodrone programme. This step demonstrates India’s willingness to explore opportunities to collaborate on subjects of common interest between the country and Europe and it is taken by OCCAR as a first step that could lead to a collaboration. Eurodrone is a European defence industry programme currently under development by Airbus with Leonardo and Dassault Aviation.



https://x.com/livefist/status/1881710490033996273 ----> India joins Eurodrone program as OCCAR Observer State. The @AirbusDefence-led program involves Leonardo & Dassault aiming for a first flight in 2027. Airbus says India’s observer status is a “first step that could lead to a collaboration.”

[Rakesh]

India’s Military Modernisation Problem: No Strategic Cohesion
https://www.livefistdefence.com/indias- ... -cohesion/
21 Jan 2025

[drnayar]

India’s Military Modernisation Problem: No Strategic Cohesion
https://www.livefistdefence.com/indias- ... -cohesion/
21 Jan 2025

very good points !! .. procurements have been mostly a reactive affair to changes in neighbourhood unfortunately..

[Rakesh]

Solar Group To Invest Rs. 12,780 Crore In Maharashtra’s Defence Sector
https://bharatshakti.in/solar-group-mah ... e-project/
22 Jan 2025

[Rakesh]

Global Supply Chains & 5th Gen Fighter Jets

In this episode of The Gaurav Arya Podcast, Major Gaurav Arya and Air Marshal RGK Kapoor (retd) discuss the evolution of Indian aviation, highlighting advancements like the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and Rafale integration. They also explore the roles of HAL and private enterprises like Tata in advancing aerospace manufacturing, emphasizing the importance of public-private partnerships in India’s defense self-reliance.

0:00 - Introduction
1:24 - why America is halting F404 Engine?
1:49 - Indigenisation of Aircraft manufacturing
9:02 - Supply chain problem in Global market
13:16 - Aatmanirbharta in Aviation
15:27 - Transfer of technology
17:45 - HAL and delays
22:39 - Private players in Aircraft manufacturing
28:06 - Kaveri Jet Engine and the Future of Aviation
40:40 - 5th Generation aircraft in India.

[srai]

^^^
India has placed all its bets on the US for engines. Now with Trumpism outlook, India will need to continually appease the Americans in some form to release these chokeholds.

[V_Raman]

I dont think it is too late to shift to EJ200 - far better collaboration in a new engine for the future. but will EJ200 also face similar supply issues?

[uddu]

^^^
India has placed all its bets on the US for engines. Now with Trumpism outlook, India will need to continually appease the Americans in some form to release these chokeholds.

Much more easier. The Ideological baggage of the earlier administration will not be there. Contrary its business. Just cutting and shifting oil purchases from Canada to U.S will do it. Also we could further diversify oil purchase if the U.S gives discounted rates like the Russians.
https://static.toiimg.com/photo/imgsize ... 481382.jpg

[ernest]

I dont think it is too late to shift to EJ200 - far better collaboration in a new engine for the future. but will EJ200 also face similar supply issues?

Eurojet is much more sanction prone than GE. For any reason that GE engines will be blocked, EJ will be blocked as well, and then some more. We are better of going full throttle after our own engine or French/Russian, in that order.
For the next 4 years, we can assume a transactional relation with USA, beyond which there is some uncertainty. During this time, we need to go big on domestic engine RnD, testing and production spending and gain momentum to sustain our engine dev with minimal dependence.

[Manish_P]

Defense budget at Rs 6.8 lakh crore ($79 billion).

Accounts for about 1.9% of GDP (United States: ~3.2% of GDP, China: Officially ~1.5%)

The capital expenditure at Rs 1.8 lakh crore (last year Rs 1.7 lakh crore)
The revenue outlay of Rs 3.1 lakh at almost double the capital expenditure covers salaries, sustenance etc
The pension bill is Rs 1.6 lakh crore, a jump of 13.9%



ToI - No big bang in defence budget

India’s military modernization will continue in its typical slow, haphazard manner without any big bangs, with the overall defence outlay registering a modest 9.5% hike over the last fiscal’s budgetary estimates and 6.3% over the revised ones.

The defence budget was pegged at Rs 6.8 lakh crore ($79 billion), which works out to just 1.9% of the projected GDP for 2025-26 when at least 2.5% is needed to effectively deal with the collusive threat from China and Pakistan.

The capital expenditure for military modernization or acquisitions as well as creation of infrastructure assets and R&D stood at Rs 1.8 lakh crore, which is a meagre 4.6% jump from the last fiscal’s outlay of Rs 1.7 lakh crore.

Moreover, the defence ministry has returned Rs 12,500 crore as unspent under this head.

The revenue outlay of Rs 3.1 lakh crore for day-to-day operational costs, sustenance and salaries of the over 14-lakh strong armed forces and defence civilians, in turn, also continues to be almost double the capital one.

The huge pension bill, in turn, is Rs 1.6 lakh crore for the 34 lakh ex-servicemen and defence civilians, which saw a 13.9% jump.

[drnayar]

Defense budget at Rs 6.8 lakh crore ($79 billion).
ToI - No big bang in defence budget

India’s military modernization will continue in its typical slow, haphazard manner without any big bangs, with the overall defence outlay registering a modest 9.5% hike over the last fiscal’s budgetary estimates and 6.3% over the revised ones.

The defence budget was pegged at Rs 6.8 lakh crore ($79 billion), which works out to just 1.9% of the projected GDP for 2025-26 when at least 2.5% is needed to effectively deal with the collusive threat from China and Pakistan.

The capital expenditure for military modernization or acquisitions as well as creation of infrastructure assets and R&D stood at Rs 1.8 lakh crore, which is a meagre 4.6% jump from the last fiscal’s outlay of Rs 1.7 lakh crore.

Moreover, the defence ministry has returned Rs 12,500 crore as unspent under this head.

The revenue outlay of Rs 3.1 lakh crore for day-to-day operational costs, sustenance and salaries of the over 14-lakh strong armed forces and defence civilians, in turn, also continues to be almost double the capital one.

The huge pension bill, in turn, is Rs 1.6 lakh crore for the 34 lakh ex-servicemen and defence civilians, which saw a 13.9% jump.

i wonder if it is possible to separate the pensions fund for armed services and paramilitary services and fund this separately through investments etc ?

[Manish_P]

i wonder if it is possible to separate the pensions fund for armed services and paramilitary services and fund this separately through investments etc ?

Another angle. Our military exports in 2023 were around Rs 21,000 crore.

If we can take it to a lakh crore it would reduce the strain a lot

[williams]

Defense budget at Rs 6.8 lakh crore ($79 billion).

Accounts for about 1.9% of GDP (United States: ~3.2% of GDP, China: Officially ~1.5%)

The capital expenditure at Rs 1.8 lakh crore (last year Rs 1.7 lakh crore)
The revenue outlay of Rs 3.1 lakh at almost double the capital expenditure covers salaries, sustenance etc
The pension bill is Rs 1.6 lakh crore, a jump of 13.9%



ToI - No big bang in defence budget

India’s military modernization will continue in its typical slow, haphazard manner without any big bangs, with the overall defence outlay registering a modest 9.5% hike over the last fiscal’s budgetary estimates and 6.3% over the revised ones.

The defence budget was pegged at Rs 6.8 lakh crore ($79 billion), which works out to just 1.9% of the projected GDP for 2025-26 when at least 2.5% is needed to effectively deal with the collusive threat from China and Pakistan.

The capital expenditure for military modernization or acquisitions as well as creation of infrastructure assets and R&D stood at Rs 1.8 lakh crore, which is a meagre 4.6% jump from the last fiscal’s outlay of Rs 1.7 lakh crore.

Moreover, the defence ministry has returned Rs 12,500 crore as unspent under this head.

The revenue outlay of Rs 3.1 lakh crore for day-to-day operational costs, sustenance and salaries of the over 14-lakh strong armed forces and defence civilians, in turn, also continues to be almost double the capital one.

The huge pension bill, in turn, is Rs 1.6 lakh crore for the 34 lakh ex-servicemen and defence civilians, which saw a 13.9% jump.

That is 100 billion USD of potential CapEx in the next 5 years. Problem is we could not spend the money allocated last year. How can we expect finance ministry to allocate more this year?

[Manish_P]

That is 100 billion USD of potential CapEx in the next 5 years. Problem is we could not spend the money allocated last year. How can we expect finance ministry to allocate more this year?

Maybe that is because they couldn't spend the money as they were not allowed to spend it on stuff they said they wanted

[A Deshmukh]

Spending actual money is also dependent on contract negotiation moving to the final signing stage and other factors.
ex: GE414 is still in negotiation. Not sure how much is allocated for this in the previous and next budgets. Any slippage would mean money allocated in budget is not utilized.
GE404 delays has resulted in delays of Tejas Mk1A deliveries. These would have been budgeted but could not be spent.

[Manish_P]

That's true. The GoI could step in and get the Mod and MoF to work out ways to clear at least some of the urgent acquisitions with the required reallocation.

But the red tape is the reason and pride of existence of babudom.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/livefist/status/1888845818192679330 ---> Excerpt from a blogpost today by @GE_Aerospace on ‘40 years of partnership with HAL.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/livefist/status/1889639565335449848 ---> Scorpène, Pinaka & more in the Modi-Macron joint statement. Rafale left out of statement possibly not to ‘play it up’ right before PM Modi heads to U.S.. Operative excerpt:

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1889650919337501068 ---> India – France Joint Statement on the visit of Shri Narendra Modi, Hon’ble Prime Minister of India to France. Key Points Regarding Jet Engines: "Both sides welcomed the ongoing discussions in missiles, helicopter engines and jet engines. They also welcomed the excellent cooperation between the relevant entities in the Safran group and their Indian counterparts."

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1889600331497054292 ---> India is in talks with GE Rolls Royce and Safran for AMCA engines. Possible decision by end of the year. Hear Dr Samir V Kamat via ANI.

[Rakesh]

Russia, India Sign Off On Defence Logistics Agreement
https://russiaspivottoasia.com/russia-i ... agreement/
19 Feb 2025