Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC 2): News & Discussion

[Aditya_V]

So IAC 2 will be built with bigger lifts, while IAC 1 will use MiG-29K plus Tejas-TEDBF?

[Manish_P]

..
1. As you said most important is the what are the leaders (meaning Naval) thinking i.e., what do they want in the next 5-10 years. Given chin plan are we going to safeguard our 'Pond'!! Because each two years the goal post keep changing
..

Chinese plans have not changed in the past 2 decades (counter the US, neuter India), nor the Paki plans (ghazwa-e-hind), nor the US plans (make alphabet alliances, keep the canals & trade sea lanes under it's control)...so why do our plans/posts kept changing?

[Rakesh]

The price paid for 26 Rafale-M.

Get ready for more Rafale Ms. I seriously mean that.

Kiss TEDBF goodbye.

[Rakesh]

So IAC 2 will be built with bigger lifts, while IAC 1 will use MiG-29K plus Tejas-TEDBF?

There is a proposal for IAC-2 to be a follow on Vikrant Class vessel. Whether that will have bigger lifts (I hope so!) still remains to be seen.

MiG-29K will retire with INS Vikramaditya in the next decade. The future of fixed-wing, fighter aircraft in the Indian Navy will be as follows;

1) Rafale M (single seat, naval fighter)

2) Rafale B (twin seater, not carrier compatible trainer for cockpit/aircraft familiarization)

3) Naval Tejas (twin seater for aircraft carrier training i.e. take-offs, landings, etc)

There will be no TEDBF. No funds have been sanctioned for prototype development.

[Rakesh]

Re: carriers, nothing has been dropped.

Navy has only clarified that the new carrier being built is not the 3rd carrier per se but a replacement for Vikramaditya.

Do you remember this discussion from a little over four years ago? viewtopic.php?p=2476144#p2476144

I stated back then and will reiterate again, there was always a budget shortage. But back then, the F-18SH was in contention for the MRCBF program and forum members were throwing caution to the wind and boldly claiming that the super carrier program will be sanctioned. The famous words ---> Money should be there were uttered on the forum. Even the Navy was gung-ho about IAC-2. A senior Admiral retired from active service to become the head of Boeing India, just so that the acquisition of the F-18SH could be done with ease.

None of this worked out. Submarines won at the end of the day. You cannot engage & destroy what you cannot see. The war in Ukraine also proved that large capital vessels are more of a headache to preserve and protect, than an asset in conflict. Only the US has the financial wherewithal to have a world-class carrier program (and all the bells & whistles that come with it i.e. CBG) and a spectacular SSN program. No other country has achieved that to date, including the mighty PLAN.

IAC 2 will likely be a modified IAC-1 (INS Vikrant) with a ski jump and hopefully larger lifts. Entry into service will be at the end of the next decade (at the earliest). The super carrier dream and the three aircraft carrier dream ended at the bottom of the ocean (where it belonged in the first place). The Admirals had to learn the hard lesson ---> Cut Your Coat According To Your Cloth.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/livefist/status/1886707430924673306 ---> Planning for INS Vikramaditya's replacement now makes sense. It could push India's heavy ‘super carrier’ out by another 20-25 years, but offers an opportunity to rectify some of Vikrant’s shortcomings, says @zone5aviation in our updated piece.

3-Carrier Plan Shelved, India Wants Sharks ASAP
https://www.livefistdefence.com/3-carri ... arks-asap/
03 Feb 2025

What’s unclear is if this fresh carrier number clarity means that clearance for IAC-2’s construction is on the horizon. The likely retirement of INS Vikramaditya by 2035 means that time to build its replacement isn’t exactly in generous supply. While it is unlikely that India will explicitly confirm plan tweaks, this reported realignment at the very least indicates that the Indian Navy is prioritising undersea warfare and deterrence over traditional carrier-based naval at least until it has the luxury to keep both on the table.

“When she was commissioned, Vikramaditya was supposed to have a 30 year service life. That would take her to the early 2040s. But the vintage of the platform, and the nature of her construction and propulsion are such that she will be incredibly difficult and expensive to maintain as she ages. Planning for her replacement now makes sense,” says air power commentator and author Angad Singh. He adds, “Unfortunately the slow pace of Indian shipbuilding means that if the Navy proceeds with an IAC-1 variant (P-71A, if you will) as VKD’s successor, it will perforce push the fielding of a heavy ‘super carrier’ out by another 20-25 years — with that ship essentially serving as Vikrant’s replacement. All that said, a “P-71A” carrier delivered in about 10 years at around $3 billion (similar to P-71) is a tantalising prospect. This ship would offer an opportunity to rectify some of Vikrant’s shortcomings — especially the aircraft lifts! — and incorporate new capabilities like IEP and maybe even a drone launch/recovery system like that on the QE class.”

[ManuJ]

Re: carriers, nothing has been dropped.

Navy has only clarified that the new carrier being built is not the 3rd carrier per se but a replacement for Vikramaditya.

Do you remember this discussion from a little over four years ago? viewtopic.php?p=2476144#p2476144
..

IAC 2 will likely be a modified IAC-1 (INS Vikrant) with a ski jump and hopefully larger lifts. Entry into service will be at the end of the next decade (at the earliest). The super carrier dream and the three aircraft carrier dream ended at the bottom of the ocean (where it belonged in the first place). The Admirals had to learn the hard lesson ---> Cut Your Coat According To Your Cloth.

We'll find out whether the plans for additional carriers have been shelved once IAC-2 is done. There was never a plan to build two carriers simultaneously anyway. In 10 years, India will be a $10 trillion economy with a $250+ billion defense budget, which will lead to very different conversations and options.

We've both been on this forum for 25+ years, what's another 10 years

[Manish_P]

....In 10 years, India will be a $10 trillion economy with a $250+ billion defense budget, which will lead to very different conversations and options.
...

20 years ago we were a $0.5 trillion economy and our forces seemed comparatively better equipped in some areas than they are now.

But one should keep the faith. I will.

[Aditya_V]

20 years ago there were very few PGMs, bulk of the airforce were Mig 21s, our Aircraft carrier INS Viraat had a few harriers and liquid fuelled Prithvi was our deterrent, we are now where near where we like to be but our progress has been huge

[Rakesh]

We'll find out whether the plans for additional carriers have been shelved once IAC-2 is done. There was never a plan to build two carriers simultaneously anyway. In 10 years, India will be a $10 trillion economy with a $250+ billion defense budget, which will lead to very different conversations and options.

We've both been on this forum for 25+ years, what's another 10 years

That is the problem ---> there is no plan. Everything is done ad-hoc.

From 2010 to 2019, when Navy Admirals were doing monkey-see-monkey-do with IAC-2 vis-à-vis Nimitz/Gerald R Ford Class aircraft carriers...any opposition to their grandiose idea was swatted down. But each time the Navy went with the proposal for the super carrier, they were laughed out of the room by the MoD and even by the then CDS (late General Bipin Rawat) himself. This previous decade is when they should have embarked on a follow-on IAC-1. They wasted that time and now have wasted 4+ years of this decade, still humming and hawing. Had they laid the keel for IAC-2 in the previous decade, she would have been ready for commissioning today.

And time that was wasted resulted in the PLAN continuing on their modernization path, while our Admirals were busying trying to ape the US Navy, but with a budget that could never match. And now these geniuses finally woke up and decided (albeit grudgingly) that their egocentric, pet project, super carrier program was not going to get sanctioned and have changed their naval strategy to submarines.

When IAC-2 arrives in the next decade, the PLAN will be far ahead. It is already too late to play catch up.

IAC-2, -3 and -4 will all come. The real question is when?

[sajaym]

Whatever they do, I hope they don't waste the hull of the Vikramaditya like they did of the old Vikrant and Viraat. After it is retired the VikAd should be run aground near the Lakshadweep islands. They should put a nuclear reactor in it and use it like a Naval Air Station with the usual complement of air assets which it was operating -- or even the 3-legged Naval Tejas (if Mig29K or Rafales can't be spared). Project Kusha SAM sites and Brahmos batteries can be set up on nearby Islands for protection. This way India can still have an almost 3-carrier navy!

[AkshaySG]

Whatever they do, I hope they don't waste the hull of the Vikramaditya like they did of the old Vikrant and Viraat. After it is retired the VikAd should be run aground near the Lakshadweep islands. They should put a nuclear reactor in it and use it like a Naval Air Station with the usual complement of air assets which it was operating -- or even the 3-legged Naval Tejas (if Mig29K or Rafales can't be spared). Project Kusha SAM sites and Brahmos batteries can be set up on nearby Islands for protection. This way India can still have an almost 3-carrier navy!

Don't even need the hull for that. A navy with blue water aspirations and more competent leadership would have multiple Naval Air Stations manned with N-LCAs, drones, P-8Is in Andaman & Nicobar, Lakshwadeep and probably even Seychelles, etc.

AnC should be for IN what Hawaii is for USN but alas.

[SRajesh]

^^^Saar I am armchair jernail
Please draw line from Reunion to Chagos reclaimed and then to Nicobar
Now drop a line from Nicobar to Keeling
Connect point 3 to point 1
If we can build good relationship with Mauritius, Seychelles and Aussies base our assest strategically our "pond" is safe
Even Unkil wont like it forget the Chini
But as Rakesh Saar mentioned our Rear Admirals on the way up see hardly anything but the "Flaming/Rising Sun' so to speak so one see nothing else but wants Uber Ulla Flat top and all want to be 'Top Guns' in real life!!

[Rakesh]

Submarines won at the end of the day. You cannot engage & destroy what you cannot see. The war in Ukraine also proved that large capital vessels are more of a headache to preserve and protect, than an asset in conflict. Only the US has the financial wherewithal to have a world-class carrier program (and all the bells & whistles that come with it i.e. CBG) and a spectacular SSN program. No other country has achieved that to date, including the mighty PLAN.

From the Twitter account of the US Naval Institute. Admiral William Halsey served in the US Navy in World War II.

https://x.com/NavalInstitute/status/1886947709346545696 ---> #TuesdayThoughts

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/livefist/status/1924748502082715785 ---> 8th meeting of India-US Joint Working Group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Co-operation (JWGACTC) under the US Defence Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) took place from May 13-16 in Goa.