Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

The Technology & Economic Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to Technological and Economic developments in India. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6346
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Cyrano »

This was tried in some Navi Mumbai train stations in the late 90s. IIRC it was considered a success those days. I'm not sure how it's seen now and how it has aged over the years.

In any indian city that's not as space starved as Mumbai or Japanese cities, we haven't really seen this type of urban optimisation.
ritesh
BRFite
Posts: 555
Joined: 13 Dec 2005 17:48
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by ritesh »

Supratik wrote: 11 Jan 2025 22:24 Now that several railway stations are undergoing redevelopment IR should consider building Aerocity like complexes at least near the major railway stations. They can have hotels, malls, etc. Especially in big cities.
This example of local train station... Seawood on harbour line.
https://youtu.be/FMgqLXk1Wko?si=NHWRalRyZXmbAYKg
Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 9117
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Sachin »

Cyrano wrote: 12 Jan 2025 23:16 This was tried in some Navi Mumbai train stations in the late 90s. IIRC it was considered a success those days. I'm not sure how it's seen now and how it has aged over the years.
Vashi and CBD Belapur in Navi Mumbai had suburban train stations which had multi-storeyed buildings above the platforms. Think about the convenience. IT/ITES companys etc which houses large number of workers can just get out of their office floors come to the platforms directly and just catch a EMU home.
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6585
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Manish_P »

Sachin wrote: 13 Jan 2025 18:59
Cyrano wrote: 12 Jan 2025 23:16 This was tried in some Navi Mumbai train stations in the late 90s. IIRC it was considered a success those days. I'm not sure how it's seen now and how it has aged over the years.
Vashi and CBD Belapur in Navi Mumbai had suburban train stations which had multi-storeyed buildings above the platforms. Think about the convenience. IT/ITES companys etc which houses large number of workers can just get out of their office floors come to the platforms directly and just catch a EMU home.
Yes, Sachin ji

However there is an issue.

As the property is located near, well right at, the station, the rentals are very high, compared to the vicinity, and keep going up at a faster rate as well.

There were a couple of back-office call centers at the Vashi station in Navi Mumbai. The company I worked for had a contract with one of them. After a couple of years they asked for a significant hike (over the agreed yearly hike) which my company accepted with some reluctance. The next year they asked for much more citing increased rentals. The same time the other company in that building approached us with a slightly lower price but my company knowing that the story would repeat simply decided to go to a company which was located at a good 2 kms distance away.

Not saying the idea is bad.

I would like such over-station buildings on all stations across the country. They can have restaurants, hotel, shopping centre, medical hospitals etc etc. There will be a churn, especially if it is purely market-driven (un-aided by government)
Zynda
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2358
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Zynda »

vsunder saar, how long does it usually take for Railways to issue a speed certificate after inspection? Its been close to a month since SBC-JTJ 130 kph speed trails were conducted...no announcement of an official go ahead from Railways yet.
Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10932
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Amber G. »

Wow! India and Japan are set to introduce the advanced Shinkansen E10 bullet train, also known as the Alfa-X, in 2029-30. Originally planned to adopt the Shinkansen E5 model with a top speed of 320 km/h, India’s decision to shift to the faster E10, which can reach speeds of 400 km/h, marks a major step forward in high-speed rail technology.

Advanced Shinkansen E10 Bullet Train to Debut In India And Japan by 2030
ernest
BRFite
Posts: 402
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 15:35

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by ernest »

What's better is that the same tracks will be used for 250kmph indigenous trainset, a Vande Bharat follow on. There will test runs at the least, and maybe a decent production run.
Some are saying this is bad news due to delays in E5 delivery around 2030, but I think this is great. We are building domestic capacity to produce trainsets of ever increasing sophistication. Would have been a shame if we did not continue beyond the current 160kmph VB, and switched completely to Shinkansen.
Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6528
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Supratik »

I think the 250 kmph Indian train will run on regular tracks. Media may have confused it as bullet train. No point in running a slow train on an expensive fast track. IR plans to gradually increase speeds to 250 kmph. They will most likely eventually go for ballastless, fenced tracks. Minimum quadrupled with fast and slow trains. For this they will have to remove encroachments near all railway tracks.
ernest
BRFite
Posts: 402
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 15:35

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by ernest »

Supratik wrote: 22 Jan 2025 19:02 I think the 250 kmph Indian train will run on regular tracks. Media may have confused it as bullet train. No point in running a slow train on an expensive fast track. IR plans to gradually increase speeds to 250 kmph. They will most likely eventually go for ballastless, fenced tracks. Minimum quadrupled with fast and slow trains. For this they will have to remove encroachments near all railway tracks.
Hope this happens. I remember reading that most of our current network is not suited to speeds beyond 200 kmph due to the curves.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6346
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Cyrano »

The entire length of the track must be fenced for speeds above a certain threshold. Curves of course must be either banked or straightened out. Ballast has to be very solid and regularly inspected and maintained. Tunnels will pose additional challenges because of air compression shock waves. Specially trained emergency response teams are a must.
All these will increase costs the faster you want to run the trains.
Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6528
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Supratik »

It can be achieved over a 20 year period.
ernest
BRFite
Posts: 402
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 15:35

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by ernest »

Hard to implement the curve rationalization exercise in populated parts of India (almost everywhere). Land acquisition has been the toughest part of any project. Railways hasn't been able to evict illegal encroachers in Haldwani after decades of successful judgements. Maybe with digitization of records, LA process might be see some boost, but hard to be optimistic.

Maybe (too optimistic though) some tech breakthrough will make over/under pass track sections more affordable. We should be investing heavily in tunneling and elevated construction tech. No country needs it more than us to solve our infra challenges.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14740
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Aditya_V »

Ultimately, we will have to start building elevated tracks for High speed railways for long distances, most probably Standard gauge- Probably linking local metros and Delhi Ghaziabad type extended local traffic.

Any Train traffic over 130Km will need elevated Ballast less tracks so that people, cattle etc do not interfere.

The broad gauge network should be for Freight and connecting small towns, transfers between the networks should have common stations.

So say Chennai Hospate type rail links with change of trains should be available- thus moving large masses of people and Freight in Trains.
ernest
BRFite
Posts: 402
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 15:35

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by ernest »

Aditya_V wrote: 25 Jan 2025 11:08 Ultimately, we will have to start building elevated tracks for High speed railways for long distances, most probably Standard gauge- Probably linking local metros and Delhi Ghaziabad type extended local traffic.

Any Train traffic over 130Km will need elevated Ballast less tracks so that people, cattle etc do not interfere.

The broad gauge network should be for Freight and connecting small towns, transfers between the networks should have common stations.

So say Chennai Hospate type rail links with change of trains should be available- thus moving large masses of people and Freight in Trains.
This is the likely way I think things will progress. High speed passenger on elevated/underground/separated sections. Freight on ground level broad gague. Makes sense
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15177
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Suraj »

Aditya_V wrote: 25 Jan 2025 11:08 Ultimately, we will have to start building elevated tracks for High speed railways for long distances, most probably Standard gauge- Probably linking local metros and Delhi Ghaziabad type extended local traffic.
We will have to start ? Mumbai-Ahmedabad HSR already has the world's longest bridge in construction - at 353 KILOMETRES of continuous viaducting, it is twice as long as the 164km Danyang-Kunshan Grand Bridge on the Beijing-Shanghai HSR. I hope they give it a grand name too - at 1.1m ft, it is the first manmade structure above ground to exceed 1 million ft in length.
List of longest bridges

India is sufficiently poor still and has figured out how to build viaducted RoW fast enough in engineering terms that GoI should build out the remaining several HSR lines either high embankment or on viaducts. They can end up with a significant HSR network accumulating a number of bridges between 50-500km in length.
RCase
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2591
Joined: 02 Sep 2011 22:50
Location: Awaiting the sabbath of Fry djinns

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by RCase »

Aditya_V wrote: 25 Jan 2025 11:08 Ultimately, we will have to start building elevated tracks for High speed railways for long distances, most probably Standard gauge- Probably linking local metros and Delhi Ghaziabad type extended local traffic.

Any Train traffic over 130Km will need elevated Ballast less tracks so that people, cattle etc do not interfere.

The broad gauge network should be for Freight and connecting small towns, transfers between the networks should have common stations.

So say Chennai Hospate type rail links with change of trains should be available- thus moving large masses of people and Freight in Trains.
Is there any specific reason to have a different gauge for high speed (standard)? I can understand if we will be wholesale importing all HSR from other countries. Isn't manufacturing going to be done in India?
S_Madhukar
BRFite
Posts: 851
Joined: 27 Mar 2019 18:15

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by S_Madhukar »

Yup I think Broad gauge is better too … else our import pasand lobby will have more options ! It also should make trains comfortable considering our population size … or is it because standard gauge will mean less land acquisition cost and linking with high speed trains… think we already decided that with those Alstom trains and Shinkansen
Suraj
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15177
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 12:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Suraj »

RCase wrote: 26 Jan 2025 23:19
Aditya_V wrote: 25 Jan 2025 11:08 Ultimately, we will have to start building elevated tracks for High speed railways for long distances, most probably Standard gauge- Probably linking local metros and Delhi Ghaziabad type extended local traffic.

Any Train traffic over 130Km will need elevated Ballast less tracks so that people, cattle etc do not interfere.

The broad gauge network should be for Freight and connecting small towns, transfers between the networks should have common stations.

So say Chennai Hospate type rail links with change of trains should be available- thus moving large masses of people and Freight in Trains.
Is there any specific reason to have a different gauge for high speed (standard)? I can understand if we will be wholesale importing all HSR from other countries. Isn't manufacturing going to be done in India?
There's a great deal more than local manufacturing needed to address HSR on broad gauge. There's no guarantee that the trains will not need substantial redesign when we're talking of speeds between 300-400km/h . Essentially all HSR worldwide runs on standard gauge. There are exceptions like the Russian Sapsan which uses the slightly wider Russian gauge and the slower Alvia trains on the Spanish Renfe system that have variable gauge. But most Spanish HSR also uses standard gauge for interoperability with rest of Europe.
Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10932
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Amber G. »

RCase wrote: 26 Jan 2025 23:19 ...
Is there any specific reason to have a different gauge for high speed (standard)? I can understand if we will be wholesale importing all HSR from other countries. Isn't manufacturing going to be done in India?
There's a great deal more than local manufacturing needed to address HSR on broad gauge....
Well ... News from from our neighborhood: :rotfl:
Pakistan imported train bogies worth $349 million from China. But the trains don't fit on Pakistani tracks. ...
88 Pakistani officials had gone on the purchase trip to China.

Source:https://tribune.com.pk/story/2393952/bo ... functional
Chief Mechanical Engineer Mohammad Haseeb said that the bogies were being technically fitted. :eek:
bala
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2941
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by bala »

^^^^^^
I posted this here and in the talk by Pathikrit Payne in Aadhi Achint YT:

youtube.com/watch?v=5CPLMRBhDzY

I heard the above being mentioned. P. Payne said that the chinese took the money and gave the Pakis some junk bogies, some without brakes on them! 88 people went there for a purchase? Good luck trying to run the junk from China.
Hriday
BRFite
Posts: 487
Joined: 15 Jun 2022 19:59

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Hriday »

From today's Manorama newspaper.

The Kerala government is finally abandoning the controversial Silverline rail project and readying a new project, as suggested by E Sreedharan (Metro Man). The project is a passenger-only semi-high-speed rail corridor between Thiruvananthapuram and Kannur on standard gauge. It will run mostly on viaducts and tunnels. Total distance 430 km. Max speed 200 km, 15 stations at every 25-30 km, average speed 135 km. Will reach Kannur from Thiruvananthapuram in 3.25 hrs.

In future, it is planned to connect it to the Chennai - Bangalore - Coimbatore high-speed rail corridors and ultimately as part of the national high-speed rail network.

Estimated cost 1 lakh crore. 30K thousand crore each by state and central govt and the rest 60K by loan.


Other interesting information;

As per Sreedharan, it will benefit both short and long-distance travellers. He said that though the Railway is conducting a study for the 3rd and 4th railway lines, it is not practical to straighten the curves and increase the speed. Running both passenger and goods trains on these new tracks is risky.
My opinion - I think since Kerala is very densely populated with plenty of sub-urban areas, frequent curves for an additional two new railway lines on the land are inevitable.

From the interview of Sreedhan with Manorama newspaper;
1. Q- You proposed a 350 km/hr speed train in 2016. Now it changed to 200 km/hr. Why?

A- High speed is useful only if the number of stops is less.
Considering the requirements of people and the dense population, there should be a station every 25-30 km and train availability every 15-30 minutes to both sides.

My opinion- Isn't it strange that a man of the calibre of Sreedhan missed this basic-looking estimate? Such wrong estimates are normal?

2. Q- But the Railway is now surveying for the 3rd and 4th lines with a speed of 160 km/hr?

A- Konkan railway design speed is 160 km/hr. But due to mixed traffic (goods train) that speed is unachievable. When India now possesses the technology of a 200 km/hr train system, why spend money for 160 km/hr lines? What railway is doing only the feasibility study of this 3rd and 4th line.

My opinion- It looks like there is a conflict of opinion between him and the Indian railway authorities. Another question: if this semi-high-speed rail project is approved, does Kerala need 3rd and 4th railway lines?
Hriday
BRFite
Posts: 487
Joined: 15 Jun 2022 19:59

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Hriday »

^^
Follow up news from today's Manorama newspaper.

From E Sreedharan (Metro Man);
4000 deaths and much more people getting crippled for life per year due to road accidents in Kerala. Significant reductions in road accidents can happen if more people take rail travel.

Govt expenditure per person for train travel is 1/6 of the road travel and 1/15 of air travel. With high-speed rail, travelling distance can be reduced by 65%.

To double the rail passenger capacity, 25,000 km of speed rail tracks is required. If there is a massive shift to speed rail travel then present railway tracks can accommodate more goods train. One speed rail corridor is equal to an 18-lane highway road.

If we design the standard gauge high-speed rail tracks with 16-tonne axle load and avoid running goods trains on them, then we can reduce the cost of track construction by 20%.

The indigenous high-speed train developed by BEML had a max speed of 280 km/hr and an operating speed of 250 km/hr in standard gauge. The first train will be ready by December 2026. It will also be used in the Mumbai - Ahmedabad bullet train corridor along with Japanese trains.
AkshaySG
BRFite
Posts: 579
Joined: 30 Jul 2020 08:51

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by AkshaySG »

15 dead till now in New Delhi Railway Station stampede.

Ashwini Vaishnav's position is becoming pretty untenable. Understand that a lot of these accidents are due to strain on a system being pulled to its limits but after a certain # of incidents the leader has to takes responsibility and step away.
rajkumar
BRFite
Posts: 478
Joined: 22 Sep 2000 11:31
Location: London U.K
Contact:

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by rajkumar »

AkshaySG wrote: 16 Feb 2025 17:54 15 dead till now in New Delhi Railway Station stampede.

Ashwini Vaishnav's position is becoming pretty untenable. Understand that a lot of these accidents are due to strain on a system being pulled to its limits but after a certain # of incidents the leader has to takes responsibility and step away.
How the hell is it the Minsters responsibility for overcrowding at New Delhi Railway station? If you want to assign blame then blame it at the appropriate magement level at New Delhi Railway station.
AkshaySG
BRFite
Posts: 579
Joined: 30 Jul 2020 08:51

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by AkshaySG »

rajkumar wrote: 16 Feb 2025 18:10
AkshaySG wrote: 16 Feb 2025 17:54 15 dead till now in New Delhi Railway Station stampede.

Ashwini Vaishnav's position is becoming pretty untenable. Understand that a lot of these accidents are due to strain on a system being pulled to its limits but after a certain # of incidents the leader has to takes responsibility and step away.
How the hell is it the Minsters responsibility for overcrowding at New Delhi Railway station? If you want to assign blame then blame it at the appropriate magement level at New Delhi Railway station.
That is the requirements of the job, You get credit when departments and employees under you do great and you get the blame when they mess up.

The blame is like a box of sweets, It gets distributed in many pieces and everyone has a hand in it. For Ashwini Vaishnav specifically his immediate response post the stampede was poor,first misdirecting that nothing had happened then minimizing the issue before finally accepting it.

Secondly there is a limit to multi death accidents that can happen under one's watch and after that limit is reached it doesn't really matter if it's an underling at fault or some twist of fate ..you have to step away and let someone else take over before it starts impacting you electorally.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6346
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Cyrano »

Do you realise it's a miracle that such incidents don't happen by the dozen every day given our population density, infrastructure and people's own behaviour? Firing ministers will change none of that.
Zynda
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2358
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Zynda »

Chronic under-investment in the IR system is showing up as cracks as the system is being pushed beyond its limits. Increasing the Capex (by adding additional tracks & signal upgrades) to increase frequency & speeds are gonna take time. Yes, the Govt has been in power for 10+ years but the system was so under funded & lacking, it will take time. This is not to defend Ashwini Vaishnav or anyone.

It is time that IR starts cracking down on several front seriously.
1. Ticket less traveling: A serious whip cracking on ticket less traveling. No more treating offenders with kids glove. Make example of many many instances. This is a political suicidal move as ticket less travel can be equated to penalizing the "poor" & coddling the "rich" and I don't think any Govt. is gonna do much on this. Reading on Twitter that as much as 50% of the people involved in stampede didn't have tickets.
2. Limit access to platforms based on tickets: Crowd control in railway station especially near platforms, is a nightmare. Limit access to ticked passengers only. Remove platform tickets. Install turnstiles in stations and access can be granted based on QR codes on tickets or make an app like Digiyatra...again not easy.
3. RPF: Expand thier powers, enhance training to deal with crowd control.
4. Accountability of IR Babus.

Our culture of having disdain to rules & disrespect to fellow passengers by breaking the lines, having no lines, pushing & jostling...to me these are the indicators of the fear of missing out or being left out and hence the urge to get "it" by any cost. Lack of punishment means little to no fear of law of the land. Recently, a bunch of peacefuls entered a Delhi metro station by jumping the turnstiles (again no tickets) and apparently nothing could be done. Seeing videos on Twitter where passengers are breaking AC coaches glass window panes to enter the coaches due to rush...seems to be happening mainly in N India.
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6346
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Cyrano »

Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 9117
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Sachin »

Zynda wrote: 16 Feb 2025 18:31
2. Limit access to platforms based on tickets: Crowd control in railway station especially near platforms, is a nightmare. Limit access to ticked passengers only. Remove platform tickets. Install turnstiles in stations and access can be granted based on QR codes on tickets or make an app like Digiyatra...again not easy.
3. RPF: Expand thier powers, enhance training to deal with crowd control.
Point #2 should be the top most priority. It is more of an Indian tradition where for 1-2 passengers boarding there would be a "guard of honour" of 10-12 relatives in the platform. It is time to do away with this. I was watching some YouTube videos on Chinese railway station. Their crowd is very similar to that in India. But yet, platforms are opened up for the passengers only few minutes before the train arrives. There has to be structural changes at the station level, to keep the passengers waiting.

Point #3. RPF actually undergoes the same type of training which the Central Police Force (CPF/CPO) provides. So lathi drill and other crowd control tactics are known to them. Their RPSF also gets deployed in sensitive areas during Elections etc. But the RPF act has a silly provision that they are only to protect Railway Assets (such as tracks, rolling stock, and what is carried inside goods wagons). They are not duty bound to protect the personal belongings of a passenger :lol: 8). So for that every state ear-marks a part of their own state police named the Govt. Railway Police (GRP) who is to provide security for passengers. It is better to hand over the law enforcement to one single agency, and give them the appropriate powers to manage the safety and security aspects of Railways.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34773
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by chetak »

Zynda wrote: 16 Feb 2025 18:31 Chronic under-investment in the IR system is showing up as cracks as the system is being pushed beyond its limits. Increasing the Capex (by adding additional tracks & signal upgrades) to increase frequency & speeds are gonna take time. Yes, the Govt has been in power for 10+ years but the system was so under funded & lacking, it will take time. This is not to defend Ashwini Vaishnav or anyone.

It is time that IR starts cracking down on several front seriously.
1. Ticket less traveling: A serious whip cracking on ticket less traveling. No more treating offenders with kids glove. Make example of many many instances. This is a political suicidal move as ticket less travel can be equated to penalizing the "poor" & coddling the "rich" and I don't think any Govt. is gonna do much on this. Reading on Twitter that as much as 50% of the people involved in stampede didn't have tickets.
2. Limit access to platforms based on tickets: Crowd control in railway station especially near platforms, is a nightmare. Limit access to ticked passengers only. Remove platform tickets. Install turnstiles in stations and access can be granted based on QR codes on tickets or make an app like Digiyatra...again not easy.
3. RPF: Expand thier powers, enhance training to deal with crowd control.
4. Accountability of IR Babus.

Our culture of having disdain to rules & disrespect to fellow passengers by breaking the lines, having no lines, pushing & jostling...to me these are the indicators of the fear of missing out or being left out and hence the urge to get "it" by any cost. Lack of punishment means little to no fear of law of the land. Recently, a bunch of peacefuls entered a Delhi metro station by jumping the turnstiles (again no tickets) and apparently nothing could be done. Seeing videos on Twitter where passengers are breaking AC coaches glass window panes to enter the coaches due to rush...seems to be happening mainly in N India.


Zynda ji,

Ashwini Vaishnav is doing his job sincerely, one can't ask for more than that.

The mismanagement or rank indifference at the lower levels is to be handled by the divisional managers and their ample staff. What was the station master doing when the crowds were starting to surge

no point in reaching all the way up to the ministry, just because some clowns resigned in the earlier days because they thought it was the "moral" thing to do

How is a train wreck the minister's responsibility, unless the sly incumbent wanted to rid himself of a difficult ministry and he used the moral excuse to burnish his halo

shastri resigned as the railway minister and later held other ministerial portfolios in the government, ultimately becoming the PM. If he had actually resigned on moral grounds, owning "responsibility" for the accident, (which by the way was no fault of his in any way) he should ideally have quit public life and retired into obscurity

His resignation, in actual fact, set no precedence, because many railway ministers who came after him showed no inclination whatsoever to demit their office, no matter how many people died in railway accidents during their tenures

This stampede was an administrative mishap and the zonal head should have been sacked forthwith, along with key members of his/her staff. There is never ever any mention in the press of such management jokers or even the press hinting at the true source of these failures, and last, but not the least, how is the blame for a railway mishap being laid at the door of the UP CM who, BTW, is the actual target of all these coordinated attacks in the press

why were so many extra tickets sold, why change platforms at the very last minute, why was there no one to regulate the hordes of ticketless travellers who swarmed in to the station, all vital factors in setting the stage to trigger the stampede, even as the holes in the proverbial swiss cheese were inexorably aligning, amplified by the crowd's FOMO on the onward journey
Cyrano
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6346
Joined: 28 Mar 2020 01:07

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Cyrano »

Agree Chetak saar,
the station master, RPF head must be sacked. But such stampedes are just waiting to happen at dozens of stations every day :(

Most of our railway stations in major cities were built during British times for passenger traffic that was a fraction of what it is today. Having several large railway stations in big cities to split the traffic (like recent addition of redesigned Charlapally in Hyderabad) and introducing access control like in airports is the only way to go.
Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 9117
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Sachin »

Looks like the raves & rants in BRF is being heard by IR.
Railways plans new crowd control steps at 60 stations across India
Report states: The railways will introduce complete access control at these stations, permitting only passengers with confirmed reserved tickets onto platforms.
rahulm
BRFite
Posts: 1293
Joined: 19 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by rahulm »

Sachin wrote: 07 Mar 2025 19:58 Looks like the raves & rants in BRF is being heard by IR.
Railways plans new crowd control steps at 60 stations across India
Report states: The railways will introduce complete access control at these stations, permitting only passengers with confirmed reserved tickets onto platforms.
Long overdue and very welcome. We have to move away from railway (and bus stations) from being the Meena Bazaar :D that they have become complete with cattle, stray dogs and aimless humans with no intent to travel. BTW some Greek stations were similar with stray dogs for company and shrine to Jesus in the middle of the platform with people lighting candles. This was when I travlled from Sofia to Athens via Thessoliniki

Now, maybe the Bharatiya rail will implement similar in reserved coaches. I travelled in Indonesian railway across Java (from Ketapang to Jakarta with stop overs in Probolingo, Yogyakarta last year and did the reunifiation express from Ho-chi-Min to Hanoi with a journey break in Da-Nang, 2 years ago.
Access control to both platforms as well as in reserved compartments was excellent . Ketapang is a tiny tiny station on the east coast of Java (I took a ferry from Gilimanuk-Bali to Ketapang). Inspite of being a tiny tiny station with not very many passengers, access to the platformas was strictly and uniformly controlled for all trains/classes - "Eksekutif, Bisnis & Ekonomi".V Impressive. Vaishnavi should take a look at how a developing country manages this.

2 months ago I took a local passenger train from San Jose (Costa Rica) to Heredia. Same story - access controlled and Costa Rica hardly has any train service of note.

All the above, No way a traveller without a ticket could enter the coach. Specfically giving examples from developing countries onlee. Have travelled in many many other countries by train but in developed countries tis is normal.

THis freee for all Meena Bazaar, subzi mandi type train and bus station experience seems to be uniquely sub-continental experience. And maybe Africa. I did travel from Cairo to Aswan by sleeper and back to Cairo by day seating. Even Egypt was not as bad as our Meena Bazaar. I had the opportunity to take a train in Kenya from Nairobi to Mombassa but chickened out and went by road.
Supratik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6528
Joined: 09 Nov 2005 10:21
Location: USA

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Supratik »

In addition, they should have RCC fencing along railway tracks near stations to prevent people from accessing platforms through railway tracks. This is a common practice in India.
bala
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2941
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by bala »

Indian Railway mantriji Ashwini Vaishnaw Reveals 5 Game-Changing Upgrades Set to Transform Indian Railways
  • Safety has been improved and will be improved further
  • Large number of Vande Bharat trains including sleeper version to be deployed rapidly
  • IR is going completely Green and Hydrogen train (1200 HP) debut in May 2025
  • Bullet trains to start soon and will expand north, east, south.
  • 9000 hp electric locomotive engine in Dahhod Gujarat being created, which is very advanced. IR to become major exporter of railway engines and equiment
youtube.com/watch?v=5GtnzXwTdbY

He did not talk about IR railway station revamp and other crowd control measures including ticketless travel. One thing he did not mention in safety is fencing of railway property especially near railway stations. Modernization of age old britshit relics is huge task and requires immediate attention. No money has been spent on maintenance and upkeep of many stations and the filth/broken stuff keeps piling on. Just maintaining the existing trains, by proper washing and maintenance schedule will improve the look of trains plying existing routes. Ashwini Vaishnaw is too soft of a person. We need a whip cracker on the lazy IR babus, officials, workers of IR.
Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 9117
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Sachin »

rahulm wrote:Long overdue and very welcome. We have to move away from railway (and bus stations) from being the Meena Bazaar
I am already seeing social media posts by Railway experts on how such a system can be implemented in India, raising doubts whether this would be successful. Hope the government has got a well made plan. As such moves can be used to create chaos and L&O issues in railway stations; for which again the demand would be "Minister should rejign..". A. Vaishnav is not handling a very comfortable portfolio. The IR infrastructure is actually being stretched to its limits.
ritesh
BRFite
Posts: 555
Joined: 13 Dec 2005 17:48
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by ritesh »

@Sachin saar, why is Modi govt doesn't see it fit to have a dedicated Rail mantri? Infact this portfolio requires 1 cabinet and 2 Rajya mantris so as to divide the responsibilities among themselves. There is so much going on and the incumbent mantris need much needed support.
ernest
BRFite
Posts: 402
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 15:35

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by ernest »

talent crunch is a real thing for ministries. Plus the top 4 ministries are highly sought after and you cannot bring in technocrats easily
rajkumar
BRFite
Posts: 478
Joined: 22 Sep 2000 11:31
Location: London U.K
Contact:

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by rajkumar »

Track linking of new railway bridge on Yamuna river started, this bridge of Delhi took 22 years to be built

यमुना नदी पर रेलवे के नए पुल की ट्रैक लिंकिंग शुरू, 22 साल लगे बनने में दिल्ली के इस पुल को



Also it appears to be equipped with both standard gauge & broad gauge tracks.
Sachin
Webmaster BR
Posts: 9117
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Undisclosed

Re: Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

Post by Sachin »

ritesh wrote: 10 Mar 2025 18:39 @Sachin saar, why is Modi govt doesn't see it fit to have a dedicated Rail mantri? Infact this portfolio requires 1 cabinet and 2 Rajya mantris so as to divide the responsibilities among themselves. There is so much going on and the incumbent mantris need much needed support.
Not sure on the reasons. But at times I feel A. Vaishnav is unable to get things in order. He may be good in rolling out new schemes (like KAVACH, more Vande Bharath trains etc.). But when it comes to running existing affairs, I don't think he is able to get the maximum output from the IR senior officials. I am talking about over crowding in Sleeper coaches, rampant ticketless travel, and even harassment of bonafide reserved ticket holders. And add to it the vandalisation of trains in UP, Bihar during the time of Kumbh Mela. What is the action taken on all these incidents? I have no clue.
Post Reply