India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

[Rakesh]

Fortune India Exclusive: L&T eyes big growth in defence and aerospace
https://www.fortuneindia.com/enterprise ... ace/119127
13 Nov 2024

Close to clinching a repeat order for 100 K9 Vajra self-propelled howitzer guns; set to enter the commercial rocket launch vehicle and satellite.

[A Sharma]

In an 'Atma Nirbhar Bharat' milestone, Indian Army gets revolutionary tech to extend tank engine life and cut fuel use

[Manish_P]

Analakṣhya, India's Defence Game Changer

IIT Kanpur has announced a breakthrough in stealth technology, which would make tanks and fighter aircraft invisible, or near-invisible to enemy radar.

High-technology cooperation between indigenous defence industry and academia has begun yielding results.

On Tuesday, November 26, 2024, the Indian Institute of Technology Kanpur (IIT-K) announced a breakthrough in stealth technology, which would make combat systems like tanks and fighter aircraft invisible, or near-invisible to enemy radar.

Designated a 'meta-material surface cloaking system' (MSCS), this has been named the Analakṣhya by its inventors in IIT-K.

The technology has undergone extensive laboratory and field testing between 2019 and 2024, proving its efficacy across diverse conditions.
According to a statement, 90 per cent of the Analakṣhya MSCS is sourced indigenously.

The system is currently under acquisition by the Indian armed forces, signalling its strategic importance to national security.

[A Sharma]

DRDO Newsletter Dec 2024

[Cyrano]

[Rakesh]

BEL: The Navratna On The Forefront Of Technology And ‘Aatmanirbharta’

Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) a Navratna Defence Public Sector Undertaking (DPSU) is a leading electronics player in the country while also retaining a global presence. The company not only manufactures systems for defence applications but also for the civilian market. The firm makes over 350 products, which include radars and communication systems. Known to manufacture some of the most advanced radars in the world has also demonstrated high class efficiency in producing top end electronic systems acknowldeged by BEL’s international partners partners including the Israeli Aerospace Industry (IAI).

One of BEL's strong points is its Research and Development (R&D) prowess. The company has also stepped up of late to become a strong pillar of ‘Aatmanirbharta’ in defence, a policy favoured by the government and the three armed forces. In keeping with the need to encourage an Indian defence ecosystem, BEL has started working with many startups in the country, helping them with resources, technical know-how and finances. Interestingly, it is one of the key architects behind initiatives such as Innovation in Defence Excellence (IDEX).

[SRajesh]

https://youtu.be/hXA1SwU4mt4
To all the JINGOS and bhialog demanding 6.5 Gen aircraft take A look at the Harrier Saga.
Also what caught my eye is what LockHeed Martin paid Yakovlev for ready prototypes!!
With Bean counting and Brochuritis : we are literally caught between the Devil and Deep Blue sea!!
All we do set more committees for Samosa and Namkeen and Chai biskoot!!
We could have bought few things when Soviet Union Collapsed ( I know I know we did not have too many rupiyaa but a little bit of Parsi Ingenuity we could have had a better day)!!

[A Sharma]

India's self-reliance in defence gets a major boost as HFCL opens next-gen military tech facility in Tamil Nadu

[drnayar]

https://www.fortuneindia.com/investing/ ... oad/119705

India spent about $47 billion on defence in 2013, which nearly
doubled in the next ten years to $84 billion in 2023, growing at a
compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 5.8%, according to a recent
report by domestic brokerage Nuvama Institutional Equities. In the
backdrop of the ongoing unrest in Europe, wars in the Middle-East
and now a ‘failed coup’ in East Asia, India’s defense spending is
projected to accelerate to a CAGR of 8% to $130 billion over the next
five years, with localisation being major focus area to reduce
dependence on disrupted global supply chains

[A Sharma]

DRDO Newsletter Jan 2025

[ramana]

Is there any news on DRDO developing an engine for UAVs?

[suryag]

Ramana garu - wasnt there a new report that ADA or NAL had developed a copy of ROTAX engines ?

[ramana]

Haven't heard much since then.

[Hriday]

https://x.com/ANI/status/18766185494077 ... 6NxWA&s=19

#WATCH | Delhi | During his address at the 21st Subroto Mukerjee Seminar, DRDO Chairman Dr Samir V Kamat says, "...We invest only 5% of our defence budget on R&D. This has to increase to 10-15% if we have to achieve all our goals. The government is sanguine about this and hopefully, in the next 5-10 years we will transition from 5% to 15% of the defence budget on R&D...The first priority is aero engines. Today, we have demonstrated a 4th generation aero engine for our fighter aircraft. Going ahead we will need a 6th generation aero engine...But one has to realise that if we want this capability the country will have to invest close to 4-5 billion dollars. That's Rs 40,000-50,000 crores because we should not repeat the mistakes that we have made in the past..."

4.17 minutes of video in the above Twitter link.

[Hriday]

Karan M had said here in the forum that unlike in the USA and China, India's military R&D model is the most efficient one. We developed world-class weapon systems with a shoestring budget. Also, several scientists opted to work in India for patriotic reasons despite getting better offers in Western countries.

My question is if the ROI in military R&D is lower than that of investment in infrastructure? Some bureaucrats or committees convinced the govt to not to significantly raise the R&D budget? I remember a minister in Modi govt saying that for every rupees spent on capital assets some X times return is there. Can't find the figure with a quick Google search.

Haridas criticised the low salary for scientists, saying if you pay peanuts you will get mostly monkeys to work for you.

[Karan M]

Karan M had said here in the forum that unlike in the USA and China, India's military R&D model is the most efficient one. We developed world-class weapon systems with a shoestring budget. Also, several scientists opted to work in India for patriotic reasons despite getting better offers in Western countries.

My question is if the ROI in military R&D is lower than that of investment in infrastructure? Some bureaucrats or committees convinced the govt to not to significantly raise the R&D budget? I remember a minister in Modi govt saying that for every rupees spent on capital assets some X times return is there. Can't find the figure with a quick Google search.

Haridas criticised the low salary for scientists, saying if you pay peanuts you will get mostly monkeys to work for you.

There is a huge segment of people in India who dont want us to make our own weapons for a bunch of reasons. Some idealogical, some corruption, some "imports are best ". All constantly drum up support to keep desi R&D on shoestring funding and come up with ridiculous comparisons , ISRO is efficient, follow it, when it's product range isn't even a fraction of DRDOs nor are its platforms facing import pressure.

The end result is a toxic environment where you've a culture that promotes license assembly and calls it indigenous. Many decision makers have mostly gone along with this view and which is why we are in a total soup. Even AMCA wasn't funded in time. We wasted a decade. You can pay your scientists peanuts (or not), but if you throttle infra, give barebones funding so industry partners dont join early, then you have effectively consigned your setup to import dependence. Plus the non stop criticism and mockery of desi R&D reflects deep suited insecurities in self belief which some insist is the only truth.

The social justice, poverterian mindset, '"state exists to feed the poor" is antithetical to investing in ones own MIC, R&D and we are downstream of that.

[Avik]

I agree with the sentiment on R&D spend and the need to increase that level. But I think, there is a need now to separate out R&D from Manufacturing at scale. The tendency to have mostly DPSUs build platforms, and limit the private sector is leading to negative fallout. With the investments that companies like L&T, Kalyani, Mahindra, Tata etc have done, its critical to allow the private sector play a major role in meeting the Indian defense needs. Alongwith this, calling every JV that the Indian private sector does with a foreign OEM as screwdrivergiri is unhelpful and frankly moronic. The private sector does not have ready access to technology from DRDO (its only been a recent phenomenon through programs like ATAGS etc.) nor does it have the program management heritage to mass manufacture defence hardware. Therefore, the only way the private sector can manufacture at scale is to have some kind of collaborative venture. Unfortunately, we have used this logic to complain about everything from the C 295 to the H 125 FAL to the K9
The other thing is that there is an assumption that every design iteration that is brought out as a platform, whether its a rifle variant by ARDE or howitzer variant or short range missile variant by DRDO is assumed to be final design adhered, production hardened, sub-tier aligned and ready for scale manufacture. This is just erroneous assumption--globally, we see multiple variations of a platform launched by a foreign OEMs but only a few actually get to the stage of mass manufacture. If we go through the various variants and platforms that were soft-launched by OEMs,only a few actually get to scale production stage. I believe we will have to mature ourselves to accept this proposition rather than complain that every variant of howitzers by OFB and Kalyani has not been procured by the IA, for instance!
The larger point here is that DRDO is maturing quite well, with multiple variants now evolving from the basic platforms, be it in missiles or howitzers, at fairly high frequency. But lets open that up to the large scale Indian private sector as well rather than reserving it for DPSUs and mid-scale companies. Also, we need to consider at a policy level to separate out the Department of Defence Production from the MoD and place it under Ministry of Heavy Industry

[srai]

If complaining about shortages, place orders in bulk! There are plenty of options

[Manish_P]

...Also, we need to consider at a policy level to separate out the Department of Defence Production from the MoD and place it under Ministry of Heavy Industry

That might create more problems and roadblocks than solve them. Even when they are under the same ministry we see so many issues. With two distinct power centers it will be even more messy.

On the plus side we could have a booming export business with a larger and much wider ecosystem...

[Hriday]

Often it is said here that govt had no money to spend on R&D and acquisitions due to high social spending. One can understand that it is critical to the electoral success of the BJP and non-negotiable. But why can't we allocate some 6 billion dollars (suggested by the DRDO chief) from our huge infrastructure spending? 132 billion dollars is allocated for infrastructure for the 2024-25 period by central govt.

To me, it looks like money is not the problem. Rajnath Singh failed to convey the need for it. Most importantly Modi overlooked the glaring deficiencies in R&D and acquisitions budget. Can't blame solely on bureaucrats and technocrats here in budget allocation.
DRDO chief's statement that we should not repeat past mistakes and there is no money for R&D is a veiled attack on the PM.

[williams]

I agree we need more funding for R&D. But Govt funded R&D sometimes loses purpose due to babudoom, import lobby and plain corruption. We need to open more opportunities for private investors to invest in defense sector. If they see good ROI they'll start investing in their own R&D and the profit motive will keep them a lot motivated to produce results quickly. Also DRDO budget of 23,800 cr (2.7 billion USD) is not cheap change. Comparatively, DARPA budget is around 4 billion USD. The issue is these other countries have huge private organizations who get huge domestic and export orders and they run their own multibillion R&D shops. We need to somehow get rid of the Nehruvian, public sector, defense production model. It is out of date and extremely inefficient.

[sanjayc]

Indonesia initiates $450 mn BrahMos missile export deal
In all probability, India is heading for another major defence export deal. According to sources privy to the matter, Indonesia’s defence ministry has sent a letter regarding a $450 million BrahMos deal to the Indian embassy in Jakarta.

Highly placed sources confirmed that India is also offering a loan to Indonesia from either the State Bank of India or any other Indian national banks. The specifics regarding this are being worked out.

As per the sources, the EXIM (Export-Import) Bank was initially scheduled to process the loan to Indonesia. However, this did not materialise.

It is pertinent to note that Indonesia had joined the BRICS, an intergovernmental organisation consisting of 10 countries, on January 6 last year. Indonesia’s entry into the BRICS — which consists of Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran and the United Arab Emirates — paves the way for Indian Rupee-Indonesian Rupiah transactions.

Complexities

Indications about the BrahMos deal have been given by several senior officials of Indonesia, including the country’s ambassador to India. However, the Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto’s reported visit to Pakistan along with his India visit on Republic Day this year, adds a new dynamic and complexity to this developing strategic calculus.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... xport-deal

[Karan M]

Alongwith this, calling every JV that the Indian private sector does with a foreign OEM as screwdrivergiri is unhelpful and frankly moronic. The private sector does not have ready access to technology from DRDO (its only been a recent phenomenon through programs like ATAGS etc.) nor does it have the program management heritage to mass manufacture defence hardware. Therefore, the only way the private sector can manufacture at scale is to have some kind of collaborative venture. Unfortunately, we have used this logic to complain about everything from the C 295 to the H 125 FAL to the K9 manufacture.

First temper your language. Civil conversations are expected on the forum, no exceptions.

What's bizarre is to ignore the fact that the private sector has had access to DRDO technology for ages now since Parrikar allowed them to use it for mass manufacture, and participate as DcPPs but again and again push for license manufacture over local programs. What exactly is the indigenous content in the K9?

How is it any different from the earlier screwdriver policy followed by DPSUs? Has L&T released any open data to this effect. At least the DPSUs would. Fact is imported weapons which have Indian equivalents should not be imported and there is definitely a huge effort underway to push imports into India as IDDM. This effort should be resisted tooth and nail as we are just replacing a DPSU screwdriver assembly approach with a pvt one.

There would be no need for a K9 if we had not self sabotaged the Bhim. Efforts like these are what need to be avoided.

No, the Pvt sector does not need foreign collaboration to manufacture at scale.

It's bizarre to suggest otherwise. They need orders, simple. If you dont give them orders then expect them to mass manufacture, it's bizarre. Did L&T, Tata need a JV to deliver 4 regiments of Pinaka. Did a JV help the Indian consortiums deliver 15 squadrons and 4 regiments of Akash? This is one of the world's largest mass manufacture programs. What happened to the magical requirements of JV then?

Fact is when given orders in advance, the Indian industry can deliver in scale. However there is a deliberate attempt to convert IDDM into assemble locally using partly imported components citing all sorts of bunkum reasons like Athos is x percentage lighter then ATAGS or delay local program R&D while importing the program that would then become the de facto standard.

We import 1000s of Russian AAMs, give a few hundred orders to Astra yet expect the same cost per round and delivery capacity.

This is just erroneous assumption--globally, we see multiple variations of a platform launched by a foreign OEMs but only a few actually get to the stage of mass manufacture. If we go through the various variants and platforms that were soft-launched by OEMs,only a few actually get to scale production stage. I believe we will have to mature ourselves to accept this proposition rather than complain that every variant of howitzers by OFB and Kalyani has not been procured by the IA, for instance!

Talk about missing the woods for the trees. In many cases Indian orders are massive when taken in totality. Which is why foreign OEMs bar US ones are salivating at Indian mil requirements. We have no need or requirement to go around saving other countries MIC at the cost of our own.

Kalyani's portfolio must and should be given first preference over an imported design of which we dont even own the IPR and can't redesign or export without another country's permission.

The larger point here is that DRDO is maturing quite well, with multiple variants now evolving from the basic platforms, be it in missiles or howitzers, at fairly high frequency. But lets open that up to the large scale Indian private sector as well rather than reserving it for DPSUs and mid-scale companies. Also, we need to consider at a policy level to separate out the Department of Defence Production from the MoD and place it under Ministry of Heavy Industry

You clearly don't realise that DRDOs design technology is open to the entire private sector for collaboration and has been so for over a decade now.

What is preventing the Indian pvt sector from taking it up is that without confirmed orders from the Indian Military or even commitment they are loathe to invest own funds in R&D and truly take the designs to fruition as versus taking a low risk license assembly approach.

For multiple reasons, many in the import lobby which comprises a nexus of arms lobbyists, vendors, personnel who think imports are best, are encouraging them to do license assembly, even stating that this way the state no longer needs to invest in weapons R&D and the money can be saved for social justice programs. This is the problem we are facing.

Def Secy stating that we can't absorb funds is the fib of the century unless he was referring to small MSMEs getting sudden orders from AF. Fact is L&T, Tata, DPSUs would live mass orders, and we are short of R&D funds. To state otherwise is to ignore the reality as it exists where ATAGS has not been ordered even yet. And multiple DRDO programs matured at DPSUs, Pvt both are languishing for significant orders.

[ernest]

What is preventing the Indian pvt sector from taking it up is that without confirmed orders from the Indian Military or even commitment they are loathe to invest own funds in R&D and truly take the designs to fruition as versus taking a low risk license assembly approach.

Well said, Karan M.
I would just add that this is applicable to PSUs as well, not just pvt sector. Many have criticized that HAL is also more eager to do assembly of foreign a/c instead of domestic designs. Truth is that any company would go for whatever option is likely to have sustained orders and lowest risks.

Baba Kalyani stand out in his risk taking for Atmanirbharta. He could have continued on M4 like model for ATAGS and be assembling a foreign design. But chose the DRDO option and created other products based on the experience.

[csaurabh]

Def Secy stating that we can't absorb funds is the fib of the century unless he was referring to small MSMEs getting sudden orders from AF. Fact is L&T, Tata, DPSUs would live mass orders, and we are short of R&D funds. To state otherwise is to ignore the reality as it exists where ATAGS has not been ordered even yet. And multiple DRDO programs matured at DPSUs, Pvt both are languishing for significant orders.

I believe what he was saying is that we cannot 'spend' funds, because of broken procurement procedures. You see, there's actually no way to give orders to Kalyani (or anyone else) just like that. Everyone must go through 'procedures'. And because the procedures take so long, often times the financial year will get over and the funds need to be given back to the government, and then the procedures need to start again at step 1. That is the circus that is going on.

[srai]

^^^
Can’t still be complaining at your own bureaucracy after a decade in power … with another 5 more years.

If the PM was able to fast track 36 Rafale through G2G import deal, then there is a way with IDDM instead of MII or offset imports. Reforms have taken too long.

[csaurabh]

Well, let's be a little realistic here..

All bureaucrats get paid on time at the end of the month. They have no incentive to push papers.

In fact, pushing papers is highly suspicious, as people will think they have something to gain by it. In government offices, everyone is watching each other. They can complain to auditors for any reason. Indian procurement procedures are notoriously complex, anything can be made to look nefarious.

Yes, top bosses can push papers (fast track?) and get things done. But this only works upto some point, they cannot do everything. Govt procurement is not really about a few big ticket purchases. It is about a multitude of small things.

I am currently in a situation where a repeat order of a small order value for a proven and tested component is taking 3 months to clear through the purchase process! How can anything be done on time if this is the way.

Reforms are needed, but behind reforms comes a real desire for culture change. I'm not sure if that is there yet. Our culture loves babugiri and bureaucracy. The worship of paperwork is considered normal.

[Manish_P]

...
Our culture loves babugiri and bureaucracy. The worship of paperwork is considered normal.

And yet we frequently see critical papers disappear when they might be inconvenient to the babus or netas.

Lost due to fire is the usual method. Sometimes flooding caused due to rain is also seen. It really is amazing how the loss is always total and complete... even if there are triplicates.

[ShauryaT]

A user's perspective of the challenges of MSME and even larger players in the Indian private context.

[BhairavP]

Not sure if this article was posted here earlier. Quite an eye-opener into the toxic culture within sarkari R&D setups.
https://t.co/Pp1rkeni1g

[Agasthi]

Not sure if this article was posted here earlier. Quite an eye-opener into the toxic culture within sarkari R&D setups.
https://t.co/Pp1rkeni1g

The article is quite low on serious content. I work for a western govt. department and all of the issues pointed out save one are pretty much here too as well. And, I have moved across several departments and some departments are dynamic while others are moribund.

The Defence department is one of the best and the worst at the same time. Since the department is not directly dealing with the public all the time, they get away with a lot of the same issues that the article above points out. A department that deals with say Health or Transport moves at a far greater speed (i.e the paperwork) the DOD moves the slowest. Defence is a low priority compared to say policy on how to support baby boomers upon retirement - aged care, immigration to support the retirees etc while managing resentment against migrants that are not culturally similar. I guess that's how it works in a democracy.

The only thing that stood was the relative power of Finance. Finance is a powerful division in all govt. departments but they don't enjoy the kind of power that the article is stating exists in MoD. Now, if I were to imagine that happening in this western govt. department, it will bring every initiative or policy or procedure (even to simplify it) to a grinding halt. Just like in MoD.

P.S - Work is worship. Paperwork is God's work in bureaucracies including western countries. Simple Reason: Tax Payers and the multitude of regulators and auditors that represent them.

[Kailash]

https://youtu.be/bOGeLf349Go

Makes so much sense. He talks of about requirements drafting, psqr, regressive military airworthiness bill, certification, IP creation
and impossible situation under which OEMs work etc.

Risk reward ratio something they don't understand. Failures can't be frowned upon, scientists and innovators can't be castigated for thinking and trying disruptive technology

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1881178051100422466 ---> Good choice. Some critical capacity remaining with the govt is important even as pvt sector thrives as competition. These strategic area PSUs need reforms and revenue generation practices from the huge land and assets they hold. Make PSUs about strategic capacity than a MNREGA.

[bala]

A whole host of potpourri topics are covered in this talk by Pathikrit Payne in Aadhi Achint YT:

youtube.com/watch?v=5CPLMRBhDzY

This is a good birdseye view of new developments happening in the Indian defence sector. Both HAL and DRDO are producing stuff, some are at the bleeding edge like SCRAMJET. Missiles are now broad based and aplenty at different ranges and capabilities. HAL is pressing ahead in drones and UCAVs. Also heard that Kaveri has been tested and specs are at 95% of expected. There is some talk about a new component(s) for Kaveri which can improve performance by 15-20% more. For the high thrust jet engine, the conjecture is Safran collaboration but no announcement has been made.

[Mukesh.Kumar]

A very insightful and detailed discussion into the history of India's aerospace industry along with insights into what ails us systematically.

Talk by Group Captain (Retd) R.K. Narang.

Newbies like me will find this insightful.


TLDR:
Covers how HAL was founded, initial success within one year of founding with HT-2; further evolution; Kurt tank's influence; recent challenges and successes. Elaborates on how successes like ALH have moved us ahead and is teh method to follow, constant volution.How we ended up giving up halfway through every time. there's a hint of how lobbies have affected us.

[Ashokk]

Aero India 2025: Tonbo unveils microwave-based DEW

Bangalore-based Tonbo Imaging has unveiled a high-power microwave (HPM) directed energy weapon (DEW) system that can help armed forces eliminate hostile unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

Janes understands that this HPM DEW – unveiled at the Aero India 2025 show held in Bangalore from 10 to 14 February – will be installed on a surface vessel of the Indian Navy. Tonbo has also secured contracts from militaries outside Asia-Pacific to supply this HPM DEW.

Ankit Kumar, co-founder and chief technology officer of Tonbo, told Janes at Aero India 2025 that the HPM DEW, named WaveStrike, “uses multibeam klystrons, which can generate a lot of microwave energy with a small antenna and with limited power”.

The HPM DEW currently has a range of 3 km. Tonbo is developing an enhanced version of the system that will have a range of 5 km, Kumar said. He added that the HPM DEW has an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar to detect threats and a camera to identify the threats. The DEW uses information from these sensors to target a hostile UAV.

[srai]

Good summary rundown by Dr Das (Electronics & Communications) at Aero India 2025 of DRDO showcases

[Agasthi]

Had the opportunity to speak to a Product Realisation Manager for the LUH. The forum has been quite right on what plagues Indian defence manufacturing especially around piecemeal orders which makes it often unviable for pvt. companies. Here is a summary of his uvacha:

• HAL & OFB's are geared towards 'Batch' manufacturing not 'Mass' manufacture. They have advocated 'Mass' for 30 years now. If the GOI gives order to mass manufacture like for LUH (min: 300 units), it can reduce unit cost by 60%.

• GOI is everything. The ruling party & government machinery. HAL cannot afford to do mass manufacture without a guarantee like a common minimum program where all political parties are on same page. Say for example, HAL decides to do mass manufacturing, then what happens to all the expansion (men, material and machines) when government changes and decides to do block a program or two. They will be stuck with all the personnel and plus pension issues.

• In order to avoid that, try to do contract manufacturing via local vendors. Several of these are politically linked and HAL has to equally satisfy all while ensuring quality compliance which is an uphill task. Didn't want to dwell too much on this.

• On the recent public 'schooling' from the IAF chief. His words not mine 'It is not new for us, Saar! We are used to it'

• Foreign OEM's are driven by geo-politics. India is completely dependent on external supply chains when it comes to chips. A foreign vendor may push a certain product like a fighter aircraft to the armed forces. In the background, he would ask his supplier say for example someone who supplies a small chip that goes into avionics to delay making supplies without breaking contracts. Or, they would ask for certification/guarantee that the said chip would not be used in the missile program. And, in some cases, they ask their governments in Europe or America to temporarily block supplies citing Human Rights or Kashmir issues. Even if a small chip is blocked, the entire production and support to existing fleet slows down and they try to avoid using inventory as they are earmarked for emergencies like war

• Only recently, there has been a targeted push towards setting up chip manufacturing (1000's of small chips go into a Helicopter's avionics). Chip Manufacturing is a highly capital intensive undertaking for which batch manufacturing didn't make sense. With Indian economy as a whole creating demand, there is now more incentive and profitable to set up local chip manufacturing which he said will start production in 2-3 years

• The armed forces have not quite grasped the scale of India's development. Developed countries that used to look at us as someone who needs charity are now looking at us warily. There will be no international community to intervene like the US did in 1999 on your behalf. The faster they and the GOI machinery realises that; faster will be the path to mass manufacturing.

• There are vested interests in all arms of the government. The LUH was opposed within HAL as they wanted to concentrate on IMRH. Saner minds prevailed at the end.

[bala]

• Foreign OEM's are driven by geo-politics. India is completely dependent on external supply chains when it comes to chips. A foreign vendor may push a certain product like a fighter aircraft to the armed forces. In the background, he would ask his supplier say for example someone who supplies a small chip that goes into avionics to delay making supplies without breaking contracts. Or, they would ask for certification/guarantee that the said chip would not be used in the missile program. And, in some cases, they ask their governments in Europe or America to temporarily block supplies citing Human Rights or Kashmir issues. Even if a small chip is blocked, the entire production and support to existing fleet slows down and they try to avoid using inventory as they are earmarked for emergencies like war

Great points! Besides the scale of ops bringing down costs, the above is a critical thing that many in manufacturing overlook. If you are dependent on external country vendors for your parts then you are open to delays and worse still complete halt in manufacturing. You cannot use JIT (just in time) principles to bring in supplies. It is better to buy the whole darn lot of things upfront before you start the production line. This aspect no Babu will approve since it is sunk costs and no funds saar. I hope the IAF chief understands this and barks at the MOD minions instead of HAL. The engine issue with GE is another example of a part in limbo mode. If I were in charge I would have ordered 100s of engines upfront for delivery before embarking on Tejas MK1A manufacturing. This is the only insurance plan I have. Let's face it: US is not a friend of India, they will play games to disrupt things when it is convenient for them. Unless you have your own engine power plant things will be rocky in nature.

[Agasthi]

Re: Foreign OEM's and their games, a telling example - They put in an order for a chip and a part from supplier X in Europe as usual. Out of the blue, they came back saying that supplies will resume after it is certified by an Engineer from IIT who has also done a Masters in IISC. What was the guarantee? That the chip and part will not be used in the ballistic missile program. Even an offer to have it certified by the MOD secretary/joint secretary was not acceptable for them. No explanation as to why a IIT/IISC engineer needs to certify. When pressed, they said new government regulations on foreign exports. All of this in writing, replies will take another few weeks. Resulted in a delay of 4-5 months. For a small chip and part!

And then we have the IAF chief in a recent lecture opining that we have 4-5 vendors across the world, why not use them? I suppose they can all collectively screw us.

It seems in comparison to China, it was sanctioned/embargoed from Day 1 on most things and they also had clarity of purpose so they were able to achieve what they were able to achieve. As per him, China has the only other well developed supply chain as opposed to the Western one as of today.