Understanding the US - Again

[bala]

DJT signs exec order to dismantle the Dept of Education. The dept became US Department of indoctrination with wierd woke ideas for kids and confusing the heck out for children. Giving the education power back to the State, County and City government makes sense. Sometime ago there was no dept of eduction, the baby boomer generation.

youtube.com/watch?v=2SeE5kzeAEA

[Tanaji]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/another-s ... _owned_tdb

This US admin is exceeding expectations! I am getting rid of my streaming services watching all this drama…

[Vayutuvan]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/another-s ... _owned_tdb

This US admin is exceeding expectations! I am getting rid of my streaming services watching all this drama…

@Tanaji ji, obviously education department issues are only for the US citizens to argue about. Their property tax dollars pay for the public education K-12 and a large part of public universities.

In Illinois, parents are up in arms about a state law which puts a lot of restrictions on parents who are homeschooling.

You probably know what happened in VA and Biden admin's overreach re parents protesting at school board meetings. All eej nat bhell in public iskools in massa.

If you do not want to understand the US, neither this thread nor the streaming saarbhises are for you. Might as well pay your radio tax/fee whatever you call it in your Ukstan and get state run BBC propaganda. I assure you that you will understand the US as much as the BBC pretends to understand India.

[chanakyaa]

DJT signs exec order to dismantle the Dept of Education. The dept became US Department of indoctrination with wierd woke ideas for kids and confusing the heck out for children. Giving the education power back to the State, County and City government makes sense....

It is important to understand some history and impact of this news in the grand scheme of things...

Dept. of Education came into existence in 1979/80. Unlike India, the role of Dept. of Education in US is primarily FINANCIAL. Most of its work is giving aid/grants to schools, colleges, and cheap loans to students (e.g., interest on higher-ed loan is subsidized while in college). After Bretton Woods, as dollars were flowing back in the US, $$ needed to go some place. One of the places it went to is Education. What that cheap money distribution by the department ended up doing is that it jacked up teacher and professor, colleges, and massively jacking up fees. Before this students mostly paid for education out of pocket, just like in India. Thanks to Dept. of Education, student loan business became big. The Education Department manages approximately $1.5 trillion in student loan debt for over 40 million borrowers.

Now fast forward to 2025. Uncle does not have money anymore, princely days are over. Which is why, Trump is winding down this department. All that talk about woke education etc., i think, is nice excuse and easy to placate six-pack beer average joe, but not the real reason. Uncle is technically broke, can't keep printing and distributing money/grants to schools, colleges, students. This may impact the entire education industry in massaland.

[bala]

The Education Department manages approximately $1.5 trillion in student loan debt for over 40 million borrowers.

Student loan forgiveness by the Dumbocrats is one cause of concern that the Repubs have in terms of money loaned. The US can recover the loan of student debt since most of the students get jobs with good wages. Maybe the term/loan percentage can be adjusted to give some relief.

Giving edu back to the states is a good thing since policy and direction can be better managed at state levels. Some states have a good edu backbone and are competent to manage their own affairs. Actually prior to 79/80 the US edu standards and caliber of students was very good, which spilled into the 80s and early 90s. After that there is a steady decline in many areas and student caliber is going down day by day. Now most higher education is filled with foreign students, the ones from China are into espionage for their land.

[Tanaji]

Chaanakyaji, thanks for the succinct summary, very useful.

Vayutuvanji, my comment although tongue in cheek, is still valid. I am sure you will agree both Reps and Dems have the irresistible urge to do unglee all over the world and India is the prime target. This unglee is then added to by its lackeys like UK. If India is to get ahead, and thats why we are on this forum, it needs to be simply left alone and not subjected to this. DT, who is an outlier in more ways than one, is causing the US and the world to be so engrossed that they will hopefully leave India alone.

The sideshow he provides when he does so is a bonus.

[Aldonkar]

I find it fascinating that what Musk did can only happen in the US and perhaps in no other country on the planet.

I presume that you are aware that he was born in South Africa. He is a South African (Saffer), Canadian and US citizen. I am not sure if the Canadians and South Africans have withdrawn his citizenship. His mother was Canadian and that was where he went when he left S. Africa initially. As far a I am aware he only became American because most of the businesses he became involved with wer based there.

[chetak]

a picture is worth a thousand words

He is Badar Khan, an Indian student, holding hands with Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.

Badar studied at Jamia Millia Islamia in Delhi and after that he joined Georgetown University in USA.

USA authorities arrested him for supporting Hamas and he is likely to be deported to India.

[bala]

So the deportations by DJT govt has been a football between Dumbocrats and DJT, with the Judiciary (mostly those judges appointed by Obummer and Bidewa) giving stay orders, over-ruling the executive decisions. Attorney General Pamela Bondi overrules District Judge Boasberg's order pausing the deportation of members of Tren De Aragua.

On such matters the law is clear about the privileges of the Executive vs Judiciary. PGurus explains:

youtube.com/watch?v=9XqLa8yczzA

[drnayar]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/another-s ... _owned_tdb

This US admin is exceeding expectations! I am getting rid of my streaming services watching all this drama…

agree.. musks town hall is rocking to say the least [ x ]

[chetak]

One of the BIGGEST things to happen so far in US President Donald Trump’s Second Term

Trump has declared Null and Void the pardons issued by his predecessor, Joe Biden, in the final hours of his presidency

Meaning the J6 Committee, Biden’s family, Dr. Fauci, General Milley & others pardons are no longer valid.

The pardons are declared to be null & void due to the alleged use of “autopen.”

Those that used the “autopen” are now also subject to investigation for abusing the Presidential Pardon Powers because President Biden, “did not sign them, but more importantly, he did not know anything about them!”

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdxqk1x0n5lo

[chetak]

In what way is it different from the hatred for India and the Hindus

Donald Trump

"I think ISLAM hates us. We can’t have people coming into this country who HATE us."

— Seedhi baat, No Bakwas

WATCH VIDEO


The video is about 53 seconds long

[chetak]

[bala]

Student loan forgiveness by the Dumbocrats is one cause of concern that the Repubs have in terms of money loaned. The US can recover the loan of student debt since most of the students get jobs with good wages. Maybe the term/loan percentage can be adjusted to give some relief.

Just a follow up on student loans. DJT says that student loans will go to Small Business Administration dept, the US SBA. Kelly Laughler is the SBA in charge. They will service such loans.

link:
youtube.com/watch?v=V2Fn3GSc-zE

[Vayutuvan]

Chaanakyaji, thanks for the succinct summary, very useful.

Vayutuvanji, my comment although tongue in cheek, is still valid. I am sure you will agree both Reps and Dems have the irresistible urge to do unglee all over the world and India is the prime target. This unglee is then added to by its lackeys like UK. If India is to get ahead, and thats why we are on this forum, it needs to be simply left alone and not subjected to this. DT, who is an outlier in more ways than one, is causing the US and the world to be so engrossed that they will hopefully leave India alone.

The sideshow he provides when he does so is a bonus.

@Tanaji ji, our friend @chaanakya ji has touched on only small aspect, the monetary aspect, of what ails the US education system. All said and done, I am 100% against abolishing EDOTUS.

It can be reformed taking into account the interests of various stakeholders in the order of - children (especially elementary school grades K-5 and middle school grades 6-8), parents, tax payers, and the teachers. Making everything private is neither required nor is it desirable. Busting teachers unions is also desirable.

Also, in what parallel universe @channakya ji grew up where Indian school children are paying for education out of their pockets? Probably in big cities where sending kids to convents is the norm.

I myself studied in small and medium sized towns in rural AP and TG that too in Telugu medium. I also sent my kids here in the US to public schools in a university town. Granted it is a university town and hence the public schools are fairly OK and even though there is segregation in housing, we have opted for busing the children so that AAs can send and do send their kids to a school of choice. Also schools which are in the AA part of the town have started gifted programs which attract more funding which helps the kids who live in those areas with better equipment/teachers. And the gifted kids do voluntary tutoring when they grow up to be in high school.

We do have Christian schools which also do well but they do teach creationism in their christian studies class. Children of other faiths are accepted and can chose to sit out or get religious education of their choice during that time.

There is two private school who charge USD 12K for 9 months. These are not Public boarding schools you have in UK. On the other hand US has schools that are equivalent to UK public schools. They are called prep schools and cost any where from 50K-75K per year per child.

No, I don't agree that the US education system is in the dumps. Higher education is definitely the best in the world. I had several european batchmates when I was doing my PhD. All of them chose to come here even though they would got into the best universities in their own countries - ETH, Ecole Superior, Vienna, top universities in Germany, UK, and Sweden.

Probably Trump is simply asking for the maximum - abolishing DoE - as a response to Biden's blanket education loan forgiveness program which is also not in fair to parents who saved for their children's education.

There is a golden mean that can be discovered only from two diametrically opposing positions. It is like price discovery in the marketplace.

[Vayutuvan]

Uncle does not have money anymore, princely days are over. Which is why, Trump is winding down this department....

chanakyaa ji, please see my post above.

You are misreading the situation by focusing exclusively on the monetary aspects. What you say is correct but it is not the whole picture.

[Vayutuvan]

Just a follow up on student loans. DJT says that student loans will go to Small Business Administration dept, the US SBA. Kelly Laughler is the SBA in charge. They will service such loans.

link:
youtube.com/watch?v=V2Fn3GSc-zE

@bala ji, nice. That is one way to solve that problem. Student loans are certainly required otherwise a large number of deserving HS graduates would not be able to improve their life. That said, currently only 25-30% of the HS grads go to 2 year college (community college), get an associate degree, or four year college for Bachelors.

I was hoping that Obama would follow through on starting more community colleges and give more funds to those. If he had done something in that regard, the results are not visible on the grounds (speaking myself ofc).

Community colleges in the US are 2-3x better than even many private institutes and deemed universities in India. They have excellent facilities and great outreach programs as well.

[vera_k]

Probably Trump is simply asking for the maximum - abolishing DoE - as a response to Biden's blanket education loan forgiveness program which is also not in fair to parents who saved for their children's education.

'Time To Reclaim Colleges From Radical Left': Donald Trump On Educational Overhaul

Bolded part is enabled by soft loans. Lack of soft loans will mean tuition growth slows, and students critically examining the prospects for their investment in education. If tuition increases taper off, it helps bring down inflation, and should make it possible for more students to go to college.

Both sides want students to be able to afford and go to college. One side wants to hand out more money to enable that, while the other side is looking to make it cheaper to afford. Cheaper tuition will help international students too, since tuition for students from outside the USA is set at a multiplier of 2-3x of resident tuition.

He said that on assuming the Presidential post on January 20 next year, Mr Trump will fire "radical Left" accreditors that have allowed colleges to be dominated by "Marxists, maniacs and lunatics". In an over two-minute-long statement, also shared by SpaceX and Tesla founder Elon Musk, Mr Trump accused academics of being obsessed with indoctrinating America's youth, while tuition fees continue to skyrocket.

Average Cost of College by Year

In the 21st Century, the rising costs of college have outpaced the rate of inflation by an average of 104.3% and by as much as 2,217% (2015).

The average cost of tuition & fees at private 4-year institutions has risen 181.3% over the last 20 years for an average annual increase of 5.5%.

Since 1989-90, average tuition and fee rates have increased 181.3% after adjusting for inflation.

[Vayutuvan]

Cheaper tuition will help international students too, since tuition for students from outside the USA is set at a multiplier of 2-3x of resident tuition.

What is in it for American taxpayer to help international students? If they are getting TA/RA they get free education anyways - whether they are local/international. Intnl. students who were unable to get TA/RA are not in the 90 percentile. For them it is a business decision to spend money so that they can earn in dollars or go back to their home countries and earn higher salaries than their peers who did same level of education in their own countries. US needs people in areas where there is short supply.

As an example, take the healthcare industry. A lot of Americans are going into medicine. There is very little need to import foreign doctors to big cities. Rural areas are different in that most American MDs do not want to stay in a rural town. That is where foreign doctors are useful. The most needed speciality is family practice followed by increasingly geriatrics (as the baby boomers are retiring in large numbers who gorged on red meat and fast food throughout their lives and have multiple health issues), psychiatrists (mental health, deaddiction), Obstetrics and Gyn, pediatrics. There is not much money in most of those specialities except psychiatry AFAIK.

Another example is IT. There are only so many ways one can do CRUD. Americans are not slouches even in these areas. Most IT doesn't require engineering degrees as is attested by the the large number of US IT workers from India have gone to questionable engineering colleges. All one needs is a few years of hands-on experience, above passing knowledge of English, and some street smarts.

Yet another example is nursing. A lot of Americans are into nursing now a days. Many community colleges have nursing and other healthcare technician programs. There is shortage but it is definitely not unsurmountable.

[Vayutuvan]

I know a lot of Indian-Americans kids who have gone to India/Carribean/Australia/East Europe (Check republic, Hungary, Bulgaria), to get medical degrees but have found it very difficult to get residencies in the US. Some have waited 3-4 years before they could get a match. Some have actually given up on the prospects of becoming an MD and have gone into Hospital admin (which is not a bad job actually), writing up literature for prescription drugs - the kind you find with every prescription medication you get from your pharmacy, and other auxiliary services where medical education is quite useful.

I readily agree that my observations are anecdotal.

[RCase]

a picture is worth a thousand words

He is Badar Khan, an Indian student, holding hands with Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh.

Badar studied at Jamia Millia Islamia in Delhi and after that he joined Georgetown University in USA.

USA authorities arrested him for supporting Hamas and he is likely to be deported to India.

Now this is more insidious than 'just having married a Palestinian woman with Hamas relatives'!
It is interesting that guys like Badar Khan manage to get Post Doc positions in prestigious Georgetown Univ.

What about all those other 'South Asians' in the picture? Are they of the Badar Khan variety or the Turko-Arab-CentAsian variety?

[vera_k]

I know a lot of Indian-Americans kids who have gone to India/Carribean/Australia/East Europe (Check republic, Hungary, Bulgaria), to get medical degrees but have found it very difficult to get residencies in the US.

That's because the equivalent of a doctor's cartel controls. the number of residencies. Since a MD is not a particularly hard degree to acquire, the number of people entering the profession is strictly controlled to maintain pay.

Congress Limits the Number of Doctors

The 1997 restriction on supply of residencies was originally lobbied for by the American Medical Association (AMA), the main professional association and lobbying group for doctors.

[vera_k]

What is in it for American taxpayer to help international students? .

Maybe nothing. I'm pointing out that US education will get more attractive to international students because the price falls for them too if tuition costs are controlled.

[Vayutuvan]

Average Cost of College by Year

That average college costs is not the right metric to look at if our focus is on Indian-Americans in IT. They are getting so much money that they are willing to send their kids to top private colleges. I have seen very few Indian-American kids going to anything lower than a flagship state university or a an expensive private university.

Those averages are much higher. State colleges are charging 20% premium on engg majors vis a vis humanities majors. Add room and board and in state costs are easily 35K at top 30 state universities. Don't even get me going on private colleges.

2014-2018 WashU (WUSTL) costed me $250k/four years. The same time UChicago (the other place my daughter got in with $40K schol) was $280K/four years. Rightnow Northwestern costs are $95K PA and it is fourth or fifth in the list of expensive colleges. Duke is right up there so are ofc the ivy leagues and other hidden ivys - Stanford, USC, CalTech. CalTech is one of the toughest colleges to get into - their intake of CS is ten students per annum.

[Vayutuvan]

Maybe nothing. I'm pointing out that US education will get more attractive to international students because the price falls for them too if tuition costs are controlled.

What I am saying is that the multiple may not have to stay at 3x. They can revise the multiple upwards as long as there are takers. If Chinese and Indians are able to afford now, they would be able to afford in coming years too. They are getting richer.

[Vayutuvan]

That's because the equivalent of a doctor's cartel controls. the number of residencies. Since a MD is not a particularly hard degree to acquire, the number of people entering the profession is strictly controlled to maintain pay.

That is only part of the problem for the kids who went elsewhere to get their medical education. The other part is getting recommendations from professors and the equivalency.

Previously, getting an equivalency certificate, a required document for H1B and PR, for engineering folks from India was quite easy. There were not that many private engg colleges of questionable quality. By 1985 timeframe, there were some private engg colleges but they are very well regarded - BITS Pilani, BIT Ranchi, Manipal, and few others. and ofc IITs, IIMs, IRMA, NITIE, XLRI, RECs, flagship unioversity engg colleges were all graduating engineers who were smart enough to get into US IT.

But that is IT. If there is a bug, the customers might have to swipe heir cards at PoS terminals a couple of times or there is overbilling call somebody to get it fixed.

Medical field is different. If a doctor makes mistake by commission or omission, a person might lose life or suffer for as long as they live. There is no scope for mistakes.

And you have ambulance chasing lawyers to worry about hence high liability insurance. That is what drives the higher remunerations for doctors.
"No scope for mistakes" drives the longer training period.

[Vayutuvan]

Here is something to think about:

How many IT workers of Indian origin can actually participate in BRF at a meaningful level?

IMHO, that is a very small set. Professionals in India? Very few have the kind of analytical skills and smarts and the attention span to be able to do it well.

[chanakyaa]

...You are misreading the situation by focusing exclusively on the monetary aspects. What you say is correct but it is not the whole picture.

Vayutuvan ji, thanks for the post. As you highlighted in your post, I can appreciate your wholesome perspective of the education system, but I'm specifically viewing the intent of USDOE closure, in the context of DOGE and its desire to massively reduce government spending (well, can't afford anymore). The reason for my focus on monetary aspects is because of the fact that US Dept. of Education does nothing other than distribute money.

Google: what is the job of US department of education

Ans: The Education Department is largely responsible for managing federal funding, enforcing civil rights laws and access for students with disabilities, and servicing more than a trillion dollars worth of student loans.
...
In the United States, education is primarily a state and local responsibility, with states and local communities establishing schools, developing curricula, and determining graduation requirements. While the federal government plays a role through funding and policy initiatives, it does not mandate curriculum or have primary control over education.

For some additional context, here is economist Milton Friedman from his "Free To Choose" series in 1980 on state of US School system, after US Dept. of Education was formed (although previous similar system was in place for few years). Long video but worth it for some historical context.

https://youtu.be/tA9jALkw9_Q?si=jlaCaOajcs06442F

[chetak]

[bala]

This is good YT of DJT announcing F-47 NGAD aircraft (flying for almost 5 yrs secretly). Record number of people want to join the US armed forces. There are many other topics covered including an investment of almost 4T by companies into the US on manufacturing products. The Russia Ukraine war is still being negotiated. DOGE is visiting the Pentagon to clean up the waste/abuse/fraud. Come April, the reciprocal tariff agreement swings into action and many nations have to adjust Tariffs (including India) on US products to allow their products to be sold in the US. This will be a major shift in commerce worldwide.

DJT is on Q&A with reporters:

youtube.com/watch?v=-lK0fSTeUs8

[Cyrano]

F-47

[gakakkad]

I know a lot of Indian-Americans kids who have gone to India/Carribean/Australia/East Europe (Check republic, Hungary, Bulgaria), to get medical degrees but have found it very difficult to get residencies in the US.

That's because the equivalent of a doctor's cartel controls. the number of residencies. Since a MD is not a particularly hard degree to acquire, the number of people entering the profession is strictly controlled to maintain pay.

Congress Limits the Number of Doctors

The 1997 restriction on supply of residencies was originally lobbied for by the American Medical Association (AMA), the main professional association and lobbying group for doctors.

No Dr cartel lol. We are poor onlee .

A lot of Americans who go abroad for med schools aren't that great . It's still very easy to get some kind of residency in the US . The ones that don't suck .also when they raised residency spots in certain specialties (like rad onc or em) there was over supply and people weren't finding jobs . I can see the oversupply in several other specialties .

[Vayutuvan]

Hakim @gakakkad, why more people are taking up family practice? I understand there are not enough of those. We could call a triage nurse before. That system had been wound up 15 years ago.

That said, doctors or not poor by any measure. Recently a recent graduate anesthesiologist (that person did a fellowship) got job with $650K per annum. Even if that person had $500K student loan, they could have paid it off in a couple of years. After that it is all pure profit.

[Vayutuvan]

@gakkad ji, what do you think of Dr. Atul Gawande? He was advising Obama but Obama never followed through on Dr. Gawande's ideas.

[Kati]

Department of Homeland Security shuts down internal watchdog agencies that advocated for immigrants

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2025/0 ... mmigrants/

[bala]

DOGE Discovers USIP, a new USAID-like agency

An organization founded in 1984, signed by the then President Ronald Reagan (USIP) as a non-profit that works on Conflict Resolution in Foreign Countries. What was its charter, and who is it accountable to? What happened when DOGE arrived at its offices?

US Institute of Pease has 300 employees and hundreds of millions of dollars in budgets with absolutely no oversight. They were in the business of "influencing foreign govts".

DOGE/ Dept of Justice were blocked entry by private security. It took the DC police to break the logjam. USIP President was removed by DJT and replaced with Kenneth Jackson as president.

youtube.com/watch?v=KJ4l2zCk21w

// there are many more such unaccounted agencies which will take a while to unearth in the US. Meanwhile the amount per taxpayer is reaching 10,000 which means savings of T already. This can be used to bring down the debt of the US (which is 35 T).

[gakakkad]

@gakkad ji, what do you think of Dr. Atul Gawande? He was advising Obama but Obama never followed through on Dr. Gawande's ideas.

I've met him once. Don't know him professionally. I heard he was pretty competent clinician . What specific advice to Obama are you referring to ?

[Kati]

Trump administration sets out to create an America its people have never experienced − one without a meaningful government
Sidney Shapiro, Wake Forest University and Joseph P. Tomain, University of Cincinnati

Sun, March 23, 2025 at 9:06 AM CDT

6 min read

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-admini ... 44313.html

[Kati]

As Trump Remakes America, the Political Class Is Dumbstruck

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... 235297427/

[Kati]

Trump Slams New York Times as ‘Enemy of the People’ After Elon Musk War Briefings Report

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-slams- ... 42404.html