Military Flight Safety

[Manish_P]

^ 'No records are maintained'

Really ?!?

[sajaym]

Looks like Atmanirbhar Bharat = Atmahathya / Atmaghathi Bharat

[Manish_P]

Reports coming in of a Jaguar crash at Ambala.

Pilot safely ejected and no loss of life on the ground.

Initial reports mention systems malfunction

[wig]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/in ... 2cab&ei=13
extracted

Indian Air Force's Jaguar plane crashes in Haryana's Ambala, pilot ejects safely

The IAF said in a statement posted on X that the aircraft crashed during a routine training sortie after encountering system malfunction.

The IAF said the maneuvered the aircraft away from any habitation on ground and then ejected safely.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ShivAroor/status/1898037294600237371 ---> IAF An-32 transport aircraft crash-lands in Bagdogra. Crew thankfully safe, no details yet on casualties. The aircraft is being recovered from the site. Second air accident on a single day, (IAF Jaguar jet crashed earlier today in Haryana).

[Baikul]

It seems almost in sync that over the last few years our Air Force preparedness, if I can call it that- be it number of squadrons or introduction of new craft or flight safety- has been give one massive blow after another.

It has to be Incompetence or inability, because I cannot call it bad luck.

[RCase]

Seems like the IAF's maintenance structure needs an overhaul.

[Manish_P]

The AN-32 crash could have been worse than the Jaguar.

The fighter had ejection seats at least...

Thank heavens no loss of life.

The families would have gone through hell...

[VinodTK]

Two plane crashes on the same day!!!
The status of IAF is beyond pathatic (who is to blame! the whole echo system)
feel for the poilets who have to fly them, and the nation for being put in such a horrible situation.

[ramana]

VinodTK. Take a look at the total IAF number of crashes since 2000.
Glad air crew is safe.

[chetak]

It seems almost in sync that over the last few years our Air Force preparedness, if I can call it that- be it number of squadrons or introduction of new craft or flight safety- has been give one massive blow after another.

It has to be Incompetence or inability, because I cannot call it bad luck.

Baikul ji,

An Indian Air Force AN-32 transport aircraft overshot the runway while landing at Bagdogra airport in north Bengal

[Rakesh]

The Armed Forces Don’t Fully Trust HAL, Here’s How To Fix It
https://www.livefistdefence.com/the-arm ... to-fix-it/
05 March 2025

ALH Dhruv: A Success Story Turned Quality Disaster
https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2025/ ... amp=mobile
07 March 2025

[Manish_P]

...
ALH Dhruv: A Success Story Turned Quality Disaster
https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2025/ ... amp=mobile
07 March 2025

INSAS of the skies

[Cyrano]

Patrouille de France Alphajets collided during rehearsal. Luckily no fatalities.

Something needs to be corrected in French military aviation in terms of preflight preparation and discipline.

[sanjayc]

IAF's Jaguar fighter jet crashes in Jamnagar; 1 pilot ejects safely, search on for another: Police
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 18471.html

[Haridas]

Another crash tonight.

One alive other attained veergati.

.https://t.me/c/1115206418/106604

[Haridas]

https://youtu.be/53EncXNSjNE?si=zTLzFYjZAtgn4CpU

One IAF fighter pilot died and another ejected safely after Jaguar fighter aircraft crashed in Gujarat's Jamnagar.

[ramana]

Om Shanti.
One thing IAF can do is stop the media from putting pictures of the crashed pilots. It will save their families trauma.

The brave pilots maneuver the failed plane to avoid casualties on ground and media rewards their families with pictures of the crashed pilots.

I still recall not one IAF chair marshal spoke against Indian media circulating pictures of Wg Cdr Abhinandan.
His family came to know from the media before IAF with their chain of command informed his parents who by the way was an Air Vice Marshal.
Why can't the Vice chief take care of that and ensure there is a protocol?

[Rakesh]

@ Ramana-ji: Group Captain Abhinandan Varthaman's father (Simhakutty Varthaman) retired as the AOC-in-C of Eastern Air Command, in the rank of Air Marshal. Here is his bio ---> https://bharat-rakshak.com/indianairfor ... base/13606

In the age of social media, there is very little control govt agencies can exert. And in India, every media house is looking for TRPs. The video of Abhinandan getting manhandled was taken out by a Pakistani and posted on social media. Indian media houses ran with it.

Even in the era of no social media, Barkha Dutt was nonchalantly revealing Indian Army plans during Kargil in 1999. The November 2008 terrorist attack in Mumbai, was chock full of live feeds of where NSG and other special forces were and thus helping the terrorists (who were being handheld by their handlers in Pakistan from watching Indian TV news channels). The Print casually revealed where Sheikh Hasina resides in Delhi, all in the name of free press.

Our presstitutes are among the biggest traitors in the country.

-----------------------------------------------------

In this particular Jaguar crash, the trainee pilot died and the instructor pilot survived. Twitter has already posted a video of the instructor pilot, post the crash. I am not going to post the twitter link here.

[Manish_P]

The instructor pilot will forever carry the loss of the trainee in his mind.

May the family of the lost pilot find the strength to bear his irreplaceable loss. Om shanti.

[Haridas]

Most often after ejection pilots suffer irreversible spine damage, thus health lose fitness to fly. Moved to ground duties thereafter.

Hope he fully recovers his injuries and fly again.

[Rakesh]

India Lost Flight Lieutenant Siddharth Yadav in Jaguar Fighter Jet Crash
https://www.ssbcrack.com/2025/04/india- ... crash.html
03 April 2025

[chetak]

Most often after ejection pilots suffer irreversible spine damage, thus health lose fitness to fly. Moved to ground duties thereafter.

Hope he fully recovers his injuries and fly again.

normally Haridas ji, the chances of damage are perhaps a little more on western ejection seats.

Depending on the outcome, the affected pilots, at times, get moved to transport aircraft.

[Rakesh]

normally Haridas ji, the chances of damage are perhaps a little more on western ejection seats.

Depending on the outcome, the affected pilots, at times, get moved to transport aircraft.

Indeed. Russian pilots (I remember the one at Farnbrough in the 80s or 90s) ejected out of his MiG-29 and was flying the next day I believe at the same airshow. The Russians are a different kettle of fish altogether.

[AkshaySG]

Depending on the outcome, the affected pilots, at times, get moved to transport aircraft.

The thought of going from 50 year old fighters with ejection seats to 50 yr old transporters with no ejection seats doesn't give me too much comfort

[chetak]

Depending on the outcome, the affected pilots, at times, get moved to transport aircraft.

The thought of going from 50 year old fighters with ejection seats to 50 yr old transporters with no ejection seats doesn't give me too much comfort

AkshaySG saar,

Some pilots who can and do move to transport aircraft after an ejection event, (and qualifying the very tough medical board), think that it's worth it

Off the top of my head, I can't thing of even one transport aircraft that was/is equipped with ejection seat(s), with the possible exception of the Soviet Tupolev Tu-144 prototype was the only commercial jetliner ever fitted with them, but only for the crew, not passengers.

BTW, one would not stress on the number 50. Some of the aircraft belonging to the shadier airlines (middle east and eastern europe) are often this age or older, and they don't have ejection seats for sure

All armed forces pilots, the world over, are very very expensively trained on the tax payer's dime

[Haridas]

normally Haridas ji, the chances of damage are perhaps a little more on western ejection seats..

Please tell me how?

It's been a long time my dad and brother retired from IAF.

[ramana]

As received about Jaguar crash

Bird hit...canopy shatter...both engine flame out...front cockpit a trainee pilot got incapacitated...n prob didn’t attempt ejection....

Let's wait before condemning the plane.

[Manish_P]

As received about Jaguar crash

Bird hit...canopy shatter...both engine flame out...front cockpit a trainee pilot got incapacitated...n prob didn’t attempt ejection....

'Bird hit...Canopy shatter... both engine flame out'

Not clear on this. Did the bird hit the canopy and then it (or canopy pieces or both) was injested by the engine leading to its flameout?

[Avik]

^^^^^^^
Flock of birds....

[prashantsharma]

Didnt the crash happen at night?

[chetak]

Didnt the crash happen at night?

prashantsharma ji,

just saying onlee ... not saying it happened or didn't happen

birds fly at night too, especially migratory birds

Jamnagar is known for it's pink flamingoes and other largish migratory birds, including flamingos, herons, pelicans, and painted storks. There is a bird sanctuary about 10 odd kms from jamnagar town but these birds are also found around and in human habitats

and note the size of these visitors.

one has seen these birds quite close up. No one bothers them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNQ7l5HLdCA

[prashantsharma]

Noted. Thanks

[chetak]

normally Haridas ji, the chances of damage are perhaps a little more on western ejection seats..

Please tell me how?

It's been a long time my dad and brother retired from IAF.

Haridas ji,

One saw this post much earlier and one wasn't trying to avoid answering it

The answer, however, comes with a caveat

the russki ejection seats are rocket assisted/operated while the western ones, at least those used in India are/were explosive cartridge assisted/operated.

unlike explosive cartridges where the g forces acting on the seat is a very sharp spike when plotted on a graph, the same g force is not so sharp in a rocket assisted seat because it takes the rocket some time to develop its peak force, and more importantly, the (rocket produced) spike, superimposed on the same graph is not so sharp and the rate of rise is also considerably slower than that experienced during a cartridge assisted/operated ejection, ergo the damage to the spine (if at all) is usually not as much. The peak G loads are also different, the rocket peak load being much less

These forces get transmitted to the spine but depend largely on the actual posture of the crew member with relation to the seat and the alignment of the spine/neck at the instant of the ejection sequence. If these alignments are not as per the design limitations (with some tolerance) damage to the spine can be severe, sometimes leading to incapacitation during the ejection event itself.

The caveat is that one doesn't know the latest state of affairs (ejection seat related) but one will get hold of some information as and when one can

Sorry for the delayed response

[durairaaj]

Just like military flight safety, we may need to start a thread on para drop safety to track the accidents during para-drop by defence forces.
We have been having such accidents frequently in recent days and no follow-on news on the corrective measures that were implemented or whether such accidents have come down.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 418842.ece

It is a tragic loss to the nation and services to lose such experienced people. These accidents will remove faith and trust in the system.

[prashantsharma]

This would have been true in the past with respect to the seats on gnats, hunters.
The present day fleet of western fighters like jags, mirages, hawks have rocket powered ejection seats.

Please tell me how?

It's been a long time my dad and brother retired from IAF.

Haridas ji,

One saw this post much earlier and one wasn't trying to avoid answering it

The answer, however, comes with a caveat

the russki ejection seats are rocket assisted/operated while the western ones, at least those used in India are/were explosive cartridge assisted/operated.

unlike explosive cartridges where the g forces acting on the seat is a very sharp spike when plotted on a graph, the same g force is not so sharp in a rocket assisted seat because it takes the rocket some time to develop its peak force, and more importantly, the (rocket produced) spike, superimposed on the same graph is not so sharp and the rate of rise is also considerably slower than that experienced during a cartridge assisted/operated ejection, ergo the damage to the spine (if at all) is usually not as much. The peak G loads are also different, the rocket peak load being much less

These forces get transmitted to the spine but depend largely on the actual posture of the crew member with relation to the seat and the alignment of the spine/neck at the instant of the ejection sequence. If these alignments are not as per the design limitations (with some tolerance) damage to the spine can be severe, sometimes leading to incapacitation during the ejection event itself.

The caveat is that one doesn't know the latest state of affairs (ejection seat related) but one will get hold of some information as and when one can

Sorry for the delayed response

[chetak]

This would have been true in the past with respect to the seats on gnats, hunters.
The present day fleet of western fighters like jags, mirages, hawks have rocket powered ejection seats.

prashantsharma ji, in case you didn't read it completely, there was a caveat that was clearly mentioned.

BTW, there was a successful underwater ejection too by a pilot from the IN, using his ejection seat in a way the designers had never intended, and probably never envisioned

If it's an argument you are looking for, look elsewhere.

Some western companies copied the russki method because it is inherently safer. The NPP Zvezda seats have a solid reputation

Some may think that the jaguar is an "old" aircraft, but little do they know that the IAF has developed and modified this aircraft (software and hardware) in ways that the britshits/frogs would never have done.

Here is the basic input. Do what you will with it.

Ejection Seat In Indian Airforce Fighter Jets

Fighter Aircraft Name of Seat Model Country of Origin & Company name

Dassault Rafale Martin-Baker Mk.16 UK (Martin Baker)

LCA Tejas Martin-Baker Mk.16 UK (Martin Baker)

SEPECAT Jaguar Martin-Baker Mk.10 UK (Martin Baker)

Mirage 2000 Martin-Baker Mk.4 UK (Martin Baker)

MiG -29 Zvezda K-36DM Russia (NPP Zvezda)

MiG -21 SK-1 ejection seat Russia (NPP Zvezda)

Su-30 MKI NPP Zvezda K-36DM Russia (NPP Zvezda)

[Rakesh]

Angry HAL Fires At Critics, Veterans Amidst Dhruv Grounding
https://www.livefistdefence.com/angry-h ... grounding/
11 April 2025

[Haridas]

These forces get transmitted to the spine but depend largely on the actual posture of the crew member with relation to the seat and the alignment of the spine/neck at the instant of the ejection sequence. If these alignments are not as per the design limitations (with some tolerance) damage to the spine can be severe, sometimes leading to incapacitation during the ejection event itself.

Painfully aware of this, bcoz that is the precise reason I couldn't make it past AF CME medical after clearing my SSB. Even surgery count fix my LV5 issue

[Haridas]

This would have been true in the past with respect to the seats on gnats, hunters.
The present day fleet of western fighters like jags, mirages, hawks have rocket powered ejection seats.

Correct. One can clearly see it in videos of ejection from western aircrafts.

My FIL was instrument fitter.