Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

[Kersi]

What news of Sudarshan, the DRDO designed LGB ?

[Thakur_B]

What news of Sudarshan, the DRDO designed LGB ?

Sudarshan is a long dead program. Replaced with PG-HSLD / NG-LGB program around 6-7 years back.

[vimal]

What news of Sudarshan, the DRDO designed LGB ?

Some interesting tidbits here.

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/113 ... 44?lang=en

[Kersi]

What news of Sudarshan, the DRDO designed LGB ?

Some interesting tidbits here.

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/113 ... 44?lang=en

THANKS

[ramana]

please post the text as he blocks.

[vimal]

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/113 ... 44?lang=en

Posting full text

Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
·
May 25, 2019
The May 24 test of
@DRDO_India
developed 500-kg class Inertial Guided Bomb (IGB) is significant. Assuming a satnav position update capability, such a bomb could, if well implemented, achieve Spice 2000 precision against a visually obscured target at a significantly lower cost

Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
·
May 25, 2019
First and foremost, let me clarify that the IGB is not SAAW or its derivative. I am inclined to believe that all
@DRDO_India
500-kg class bombs - guided or unguided - are variants of the 450-kg High Speed Low Drag (HSLD) bomb displayed at #AI2017

Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
The variants include the 500-kg GP bomb & the 500-kg PG HSLD bomb. The HSLD bomb also serves as the warhead for the Griffin LG kit.
@DRDO_India
has similarly developed a family of bombs around its 250-kg HSLD. SAAW most likely belongs to that family of weapons.

The ability of the IGB to fly near horizontally after separation from its pylon suggests a good range that would vary with the speed and height of the releasing aircraft.

Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
·
May 25, 2019
The vertical strike by the weapon could suggest a capability to program flight path as is the case with the Spice kit.

The specifications of the 450-kg HSLD bomb / warhead as displayed at #AI2017

[ramana]

Good analysis. However, SPICE is a guidance kit for a number of warheads of different sizes.

SAAW and IGB meet an IAF requirement drafted in the 2005 timeframe.

Karan M had posted the link.

I agree the near horizontal release utilizes the IGB body lift for range and the guidance corrects the wind errors.

Thanks for posting.

Link gto wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_Glide_Bombs
Looks like there are two types 500Kg and 1000kg long range bombs

Wonder if they can add this as an alternate to make them into sea mines?

https://www.drdo.gov.in/sites/default/f ... iption.pdf

[Prem Kumar]

Have orders been placed for either Gaurav or Gautham?

The Wiki page confuses these bombs with guidance kit like Spice. Also says that they have laser homing (there was a HT article to that effect). But I don't see a laser seeker in either of these bombs. They are inertially guided (probably IRNSS too)

[ramana]

They don't have a seeker.
Wiki has tons of bokwas when it comes to Indian products.
Every joker puts his fantasy or spin.

[Prem Kumar]

Once we have a decent sized UAV fleet for round the clock monitoring, we could look at separating the sensor from shooter, when it comes to SEAD missions. Traditionally, ARM missiles are air-launched, because the emitters are detected by the aircraft & they may be mobile.

But what if we have UAVs (even LEO sats) act as the sensors? Then, the shooters could be ground-launched. Example: we can have a juiced-up Pinaka, with a PHH + MMW seeker and INS/GPS guidance being guided to its destination by a UAV. You can even launch a salvo, to increase the kill-probability. An aircraft will be limited in this regard. It will be a much cheaper option to do SEAD missions. Plus we wouldn't endanger a $100M fighter aircraft for the mission.

For longer ranges, we can even equip a Pralay with the above sensor package (which has already been proved on Rudram-1).

This is a solution similar to the SMART very long range, anti-submarine torpedo/missile system.

[ernest]

But what if we have UAVs (even LEO sats) act as the sensors? Then, the shooters could be ground-launched. Example: we can have a juiced-up Pinaka, with a PHH + MMW seeker and INS/GPS guidance being guided to its destination by a UAV. You can even launch a salvo, to increase the kill-probability. An aircraft will be limited in this regard. It will be a much cheaper option to do SEAD missions. Plus we wouldn't endanger a $100M fighter aircraft for the mission.

For longer ranges, we can even equip a Pralay with the above sensor package (which has already been proved on Rudram-1).

This is a solution similar to the SMART very long range, anti-submarine torpedo/missile system.

Good idea. The ~5min time to target for SSM (more for CM) of this range will give some time for radars to do evasive movements. Air launched missiles missiles within 100km give ~2min. But that all depends on the radar being alerted. With the Air Launched Soln, radars get alerted earlier. With Pralay like SSM, it will need to detect the missile at long ranges, which will be tough for most radar systems. With CM, it will be tougher to detect until they're few km away.

For Pakistan, most of our use cases will be satisfied by enhanced Pinaka, like you mentioned.

The future is going to be tougher for defensive systems, with crazy evolution in LM, SSM and sensors everywhere.

[Prem Kumar]

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 2757447682



Is Sudarshan making a comeback?

[ramana]

Link to Trishul blog spot.

https://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/
Adani has built the largest 155mm shell and filling plant in world.
Can mfg 2Million rounds/ year.
155mm ERFB-BB and BT, an M107 plain carbon steel shells.

[ramana]

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 2757447682



Is Sudarshan making a comeback?

Dont know. They keep saying HSLD but from the viewing angle, it looks like the 1000 lb-MC.

But note the dual mode of GPS/INS and Laser Seeker.

So it is a combined JDAM and Paveway characteristic.
And stand-off range of 30 km. That keeps it out of most shoulder-fired SAMS.

I wonder if they tested it with Gagan availability?

[ramana]

X-posted from Aero India

TBRL, Chandigarh displays three products

https://twitter.com/DefenceReach/status ... 67744?s=20

Sample:
NASAM Note the multiple EFP generated. Similar to Kormoran Warhead by MBB, Germany



LRGB Tandem Warhead Means this is for hard target penetration
Bye, Bye Rutog



Most significant is the fuze system for air-delivered bombs. Earlier IAF sued to get Russian versions.
Since this is TBRL its reliability will be in the high 90s.




See the inset diagram. The nose plug initiates(probably a piezo-electric signal generator) the precursor charge and the follow-through warhead in the tail or aft. That means this is a precision fuze with timing delays. An example of MUNITRONICS.

[drnayar]

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/weap ... aric-bombs


Aero India 2023: Munitions India to start mass producing 1,000 lb thermobaric bombs
17 FEBRUARY 2023

by Rahul Udoshi



A cutout model of the 1000 lb thermobaric bomb. (Janes/Rahul Udoshi)

India's state-run Munitions India Limited (MIL) will start the mass production and supply of 1,000 lb thermobaric bombs from 2023, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) said at the Aero India 2023 show, which concluded on 17 February.

An official from the DRDO's High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL) told Janes that the technology transfer to produce the 1,000 lb thermobaric bomb has been transferred to the MIL, which is also an agency under the DRDO. An initial order of 500 units from the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be delivered by the end of 2023, he said.

[Rakesh]

New Indigenous Loiter Munition Showcased For Indian Army
https://bharatshakti.in/weapons-display ... hool-mhow/
15 Nov 2023

[Prem Kumar]

Good going! The IA also tested swarm drones and automatic attack by loitering munitions in GPS denied environments (Ukraine war lessons)

Nagastra-1 is a good buy but its payload of 1Kg can be improved. Need at least 8-12 Kgs warhead to defeat MBTs. Smaller warheads are enough for other armored vehicles, trucks, radars, disabling SAM systems etc

Heard that a Nagastra-2 is in the works with a higher range and longer loiter time and a 4 Kg warhead. Even with a 4 Kg warhead, it can mission-kill a tank if it takes out the main gun. It does not have to penetrate the armor or kill the guys inside

[Pratyush]

Top attack on tanks doesn't require huge warhead. Something that can penetrate only 100 to 150 mm RHA can kill any Chinese origin tank.

[ramana]

The Russian UMPK glide kit looks like an affordable way to improve the accuracy of dumb bombs and integrating with the heavy 1500 kg and 3000 kg bombs is an awesome idea as very few targets can survive such a hit.
Please read Wings of Fire on what Kalam saab wanted to achieve with Prithvi!

[ramana]

AVU-ET series fuzes
https://x.com/Amitraaz/status/1230217737944756224

[ramana]

Link: https://www.republicworld.com/defence/d ... med-forces
Date: November 30th 2023

OFK's drive to replace 1000-pound ariel bomb with advanced 1000-Kg MK-84 bombs for the armed forces
Ordnance Factory Khamaria, in collaboration with Metal Steel Factory Ishapore and Ordnance Factory Dum Dum, pioneers the MK-84 1000kg aerial bomb.

Reported by: Yuvraj Tyagi


Ordnance Factory Khamaria (OFK) is set to revolutionize India's defence ammunition production with the development of the MK-84 2&3 Series 1000 kilograms aerial bomb, a leap towards self-sufficiency in the sector. The Indian Air Force's demand has spurred this initiative, marking a shift from the current 1000-pound Aerial Bomb to a higher calibre version. OFK, in collaboration with Metal Steel Factory Ishapore and Ordnance Factory Dum Dum, is spearheading this indigenous project, aiming to replace the existing bomb with a precision-guided, domestically manufactured alternative.

The collaborative effort involves the expertise of Metal Steel Factory Ishapore and Ordnance Factory Dum Dum, uniting their capabilities to fulfill the Indian Air Force's requirement for a 1000kg bomb. General Manager MN Haldar revealed that the entire team is working diligently on this project, emphasizing the significant shift in calibre and precision guidance capabilities. The development includes reverse engineering, utilizing acquired Aerial Bombs at the Filling-6 Section of the factory.

The MK-84 1000kg bomb, once developed, will find its place in advanced aircraft like the Rafael and Jaguar. Currently, India relies on NATO countries for the procurement of this high-calibre bomb for its advanced aircraft. The shift to indigenous production not only signifies a technological milestone but also promises substantial cost savings, reducing the country's dependency on external sources for crucial defence assets. The project aligns with India's broader goals of achieving self-reliance in defence manufacturing and fostering innovation within the sector.

Established in 1943 during World War II, Ordnance Factory Khamaria holds a pivotal role as a major ammunition production unit under the Department of Defence Production. Originally conceived as part of the Eastern Group Projects to supply ammunition to the Allied Forces, the factory's history is deeply intertwined with critical wartime needs.

Folks we have not been diligent in following such news!!!

[ramana]

ARDE has developed a new 30x165mm shell for counter drone applications.

https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/191397 ... TCxbQ&s=19

Wonder if it can be fired from BMP and the Medak gun?
Can the PF be repackaged for the 23mm shell.

[nachiket]

ARDE has developed a new 30x165mm shell for counter drone applications.

https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/191397 ... TCxbQ&s=19

Wonder if it can be fired from BMP and the Medak gun?
Can the PF be repackaged for the 23mm shell.

The AK 630 uses electrically primed ammo IIRC. The naval version of the Medak (CRN-91) also uses it but the BMP mounted one would be similar to the original Shipunov 2A42 which does not (in land based versions). So the new shell will not be interchangeable with the Medak and 2A42.. They would have to make a conventional one.

[ramana]

I meant the fuze.