Their way of doing SEAD could also be to let the Americans do it before entering the theatre. But those days are perhaps over now.nachiket wrote: ↑29 Apr 2025 21:41 The lack of an anti-radiation missile on the Rafale is the only major capability gap (for a 4.5 gen fighter). Wonder why the French never prioritized it. I suppose their way of doing SEAD would be to locate the emitting radar using Spectra and then send a SCALP to destroy it. Far more expensive proposition than using a Rudram which we can hopefully now integrate on it.
Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
India signs contract to procure Rafale M fighter aircraft
The Indian government has signed an agreement with the French government to procure 26 Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft for the Indian Navy.
The Intergovernmental agreement (IGA), which was signed on 28 April, covers India's procurement of 22 Rafale M single-seat and four twin-seat Rafale trainer aircraft, the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) said.
The contract, which is valued at INR630 billion (USD7.3 billion) according to Indian media reports, also includes training, simulators, associated equipment, weapons, and performance-based logistics. It also includes “additional equipment” for the in-service Rafale EH/DH fleet of the Indian Air Force (IAF).
The MoD has said that the agreement also comprises a transfer of technology (ToT) to integrate domestically produced weapons with the Rafale M. Also included is the setting up of a production facility in India to manufacture Rafale fuselages, as well as maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) facilities for aircraft engines, sensors, and weapons.
Delivery of the 26 aircraft will be completed by 2030, the MoD said, adding that flight crews will be trained in France and India.
Similiar capabilities
The Rafale M is similar to the IAF's 36 Rafale EH/DHs in performance and specifications. According to Janes data, the Rafale M has 80% structural and equipment commonality with the Rafale E, and about 95% systems commonality. However, the Rafale M has a smaller payload-carrying capacity of 6,000 kg, compared with the 9,500 kg payload-carrying capacity of the Rafale EH.
The Rafale M is also 610 kg heavier than the land-based Rafale EH.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Buddy refueling pods for 10 Rafales out of the IAF's 36.nachiket wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 19:33Interesting. Wonder what this equipment is. Maybe it is just additional stocks of weapons. Good that we included this in the Navy deal. Common sense but that is often in short supply when it comes to our Defence deals.Rakesh wrote: ↑28 Apr 2025 18:25 Indian Navy to Acquire 26 Rafale-M Fighters from France in ₹63,000 Crore Deal Amid Rising Regional Tensions
https://www.illustrateddailynews.com/in ... ons-834377
28 April 2025
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Maybe, this will also open exports of Rudram series to friendly Rafale operating countries. Not sure if French will allow the integration related changes for them.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
A number of misconceptions in your post that requires correction/clarification.
License production - known colloquially on BRF as screwdrivergiri - is assembly of a product based on a per-determined set of procedures. India has been doing license production since even prior independence and has learnt nothing of value. Example - HAL assembles the AL-31FP turbofan for the Su-30MKI, but the raw materials for those turbofans come from Russia. India will soon be doing license production of the Rafale's fuselage. But just because India is assembling the fuselage, it does not give us any valuable insights.
Learning how to operate a screwdriver is not the same as learning how to make a screwdriver.
There is no incentive for any engine manufacturer (Safran of France, GE and Pratt & Whitney of the US, Rolls Royce of the UK) to provide ToT on turbofans. The only thing you are doing is creating a future competitor by handing over your crown jewels to another country. Who in their right mind would buy a turbofan worth US $2-3 million each, when another country (i.e. India) can provide a similar turbofan that is less expensive?
Even with the collaboration for a 5th gen engine for AMCA, we are unsure of what goes into such an engine. How does one even begin to ask for ToT, when you don't even know what you are asking for? Whoever gets the red rose (Safran, GE or Rolls Royce) will play India like a fiddle and we would be none the wiser. This is why engine development is so crucial, but the stakeholders in India do not want to make that investment.
The goal in using indigenous missiles is to reduce dependence on Meteor, SCALP, Hammer, etc. You can get more weaponry for the same amount versus spending on foreign missiles. More money spent on local maal = more money invested within the country AND = money invested into R&D for improved variants of indigenous missiles AND = missile production that can be ramped up if required versus having to wait on a foreign OEM to deliver their production stocks to India.
And whatever the stock of foreign missiles the Rafale fleet has, will be used - as required - in conflict.
What is so hard to understand?
However a "MRO facility building with some tools" is an incorrect description.
The MRO facility is crucial for maintaining high up times of the Rafale fleet. This is especially vital in conflict, as very air frame that is available is crucial to the war effort. There is no point in having 26 airframes, if only a few are air worthy. The MRO facility will encapsulate the maintenance of the aircraft + the M88 turbofan. In the past, crucial components would be sent to the foreign OEM nation for repair and then shipped back to India. In a number of cases, the entire aircraft would fly to the foreign OEM nation and then fly back to India, post upgrade. See the Mi-26 upgrade as an example. Keeping air frames in a foreign country, while India is at war...is really not a wise strategy.
The Indian Navy initially wanted the Uttam AESA to be incorporated onto the Rafale M. Thank goodness, we did not undergo that science experiment when we are facing an acute shortage of combat aircraft.
Wherever a dent can be made - in reducing dependence on a foreign OEM - it must be undertaken. I am happy and grateful that Indian weapons are being integrated onto the Rafale fleet. This will give military planners valuable flexibility in determining which weapon can be effectively exploited where.
https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1917060217763958947 ---> The Rafale deal includes:
• Missiles and sensor packages
• MRO facility and a fuselage assembly line
• ToT for integration of Indian weapons & sensors
• Performance Based Logistics pact
And that guys is the reason why it is so costly. Doing per aircraft cost calculation is DUMB.
The deal is expensive, but rather than railing at the foreign OEM....our ire should be directed towards the stakeholders who hummed & hawed when it came to our own MIC. Now we have to pay the price for that indifference.
Rail against the Indian Navy who withheld funding for the TEDBF program, till their precious MRCBF contest was fulfilled.
Develop Technology, YES. License Production, NO.
License Production is *NOT* Transfer of Technology (ToT).
License Production is *NOT* Transfer of Technology (ToT).
License production - known colloquially on BRF as screwdrivergiri - is assembly of a product based on a per-determined set of procedures. India has been doing license production since even prior independence and has learnt nothing of value. Example - HAL assembles the AL-31FP turbofan for the Su-30MKI, but the raw materials for those turbofans come from Russia. India will soon be doing license production of the Rafale's fuselage. But just because India is assembling the fuselage, it does not give us any valuable insights.
Learning how to operate a screwdriver is not the same as learning how to make a screwdriver.
There is no incentive for any engine manufacturer (Safran of France, GE and Pratt & Whitney of the US, Rolls Royce of the UK) to provide ToT on turbofans. The only thing you are doing is creating a future competitor by handing over your crown jewels to another country. Who in their right mind would buy a turbofan worth US $2-3 million each, when another country (i.e. India) can provide a similar turbofan that is less expensive?
Even with the collaboration for a 5th gen engine for AMCA, we are unsure of what goes into such an engine. How does one even begin to ask for ToT, when you don't even know what you are asking for? Whoever gets the red rose (Safran, GE or Rolls Royce) will play India like a fiddle and we would be none the wiser. This is why engine development is so crucial, but the stakeholders in India do not want to make that investment.
What is the point you are attempting to convey here?Samay wrote: ↑30 Apr 2025 11:45 (2) Rafale has 13 declared hard points , not 100 . God knows how many foreign missiles (MBDA meteor - approx $2 million, Scalp - $1million each) a Rafale would ever be able to use in real situations. (excluding indigenous missiles)
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/de ... d-weapons/
The goal in using indigenous missiles is to reduce dependence on Meteor, SCALP, Hammer, etc. You can get more weaponry for the same amount versus spending on foreign missiles. More money spent on local maal = more money invested within the country AND = money invested into R&D for improved variants of indigenous missiles AND = missile production that can be ramped up if required versus having to wait on a foreign OEM to deliver their production stocks to India.
And whatever the stock of foreign missiles the Rafale fleet has, will be used - as required - in conflict.
What is so hard to understand?
Such a breakdown has not been publicly provided, so cannot provide an accurate figure. We only have the overall cost of the deal.
However a "MRO facility building with some tools" is an incorrect description.
The MRO facility is crucial for maintaining high up times of the Rafale fleet. This is especially vital in conflict, as very air frame that is available is crucial to the war effort. There is no point in having 26 airframes, if only a few are air worthy. The MRO facility will encapsulate the maintenance of the aircraft + the M88 turbofan. In the past, crucial components would be sent to the foreign OEM nation for repair and then shipped back to India. In a number of cases, the entire aircraft would fly to the foreign OEM nation and then fly back to India, post upgrade. See the Mi-26 upgrade as an example. Keeping air frames in a foreign country, while India is at war...is really not a wise strategy.
Our philanthropic friends from La France are kind onlee!
The Indian Navy initially wanted the Uttam AESA to be incorporated onto the Rafale M. Thank goodness, we did not undergo that science experiment when we are facing an acute shortage of combat aircraft.
Wherever a dent can be made - in reducing dependence on a foreign OEM - it must be undertaken. I am happy and grateful that Indian weapons are being integrated onto the Rafale fleet. This will give military planners valuable flexibility in determining which weapon can be effectively exploited where.
Unit cost is really not a useful metric. Any aircraft - even NGAD F-47 of the US - is useless without spares, weapons and repair facilities.
Read the below tweet AGAIN.Samay wrote: ↑30 Apr 2025 11:45Each Rafale is costing more than $288 million over its usage period, not considering decreasing Rupee value.
This is a costly deal covering bureaucratic red tape, which saves funds in daily necessities of Air force & still do not invest in 5th Gen AC development since last 30 yrs.
https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1917060217763958947 ---> The Rafale deal includes:
• Missiles and sensor packages
• MRO facility and a fuselage assembly line
• ToT for integration of Indian weapons & sensors
• Performance Based Logistics pact
And that guys is the reason why it is so costly. Doing per aircraft cost calculation is DUMB.
The deal is expensive, but rather than railing at the foreign OEM....our ire should be directed towards the stakeholders who hummed & hawed when it came to our own MIC. Now we have to pay the price for that indifference.
Rail against the Indian Navy who withheld funding for the TEDBF program, till their precious MRCBF contest was fulfilled.
We did not invest in crucial areas - when we had the time and the funds - and now we are complaining about a foreign OEM and a nation that is "milking" us? What kind of Lahori logic is this? Highlight the govt and navy apathy in not funding the TEDBF program, rather than waste precious energy in complaining about what a foreign OEM is doing.
Develop Technology, YES. License Production, NO.
License Production is *NOT* Transfer of Technology (ToT).
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Expert Explains: Why induction of 26 new Rafale M aircraft matters for the Indian Navy
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... y-9973586/
30 April 2025
By Rear Admiral Mukul Asthana (Retd) - a naval aviator who retired from the Indian Navy in October 2020 as Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Air).
India and France on Monday signed a $7.4 billion (approximately Rs 63,000 crore) government-to-government contract for 26 Rafale Marine (Rafale M) fighter aircraft for the Indian Navy. Thirty-six Rafale aircraft were earlier inducted into the Indian Air Force from 2021 onward.
Why is the induction of the Rafale M important in the context of the Indian Navy?
First, what is meant by naval aviation?
Naval aviation is the use of military air power by navies, involving aircraft that operate from warships — such as aircraft carriers and other aircraft — or helicopter-carrying surface combatants, or land bases to support naval operations. It includes specialised naval aircraft designed to meet the unique demands of carrier operations and small decks, such as short takeoffs and arrested landings, and roles such as air-to-air combat, surface and submarine attack, maritime reconnaissance, search and rescue, and logistical support.
The key roles of naval aviation include:
• FLEET AIR DEFENCE: providing air cover for naval forces beyond the reach of land-based aircraft;
• STRATEGIC POWER PROJECTION: allowing deployment of air power without needing land bases;
• ANTI-SURFACE WARFARE: attacking enemy ships with air-launched missiles;
• SUPPORTING AMPHIBIOUS WARFARE: aiding marine landings and operations inland; and
• MINE COUNTERMEASURES: using aircraft to detect and clear enemy mines.
Naval aviation is crucial for maintaining control of the seas, supporting naval and ground forces, and projecting military power along distant shores. It includes fixed-wing carrier borne squadrons, land-based Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA), Helicopters and Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA) operated from warships and ashore.
And what exactly is an aircraft carrier?
An aircraft carrier is a warship that serves as a seagoing airbase, equipped with a full-length flight deck and hangar facilities for supporting, arming, deploying, and recovering shipborne aircraft. It allows a naval force to project seaborne air power far from its homeland without having to rely on airfields ashore. Aircraft carriers as part of the Carrier Battle Groups are often the centerpiece of modern naval warfare, with significant strategic and diplomatic influence in deterrence, command of the sea, and air supremacy. Aircraft carriers are also adaptable and survivable airfields that are ready to control the seas, conduct strikes, and manoeuvre across the electromagnetic spectrum and cyberspace. About 50 carriers, operated by the navies of several countries, are currently active around the world. The United States Navy leads with 11 large nuclear powered carriers followed by Brazil, China, France, India, Italy, Russia, Spain, Thailand and the United Kingdom.
What is the history of carrier aviation in India?
While Indian naval aviation will celebrate its 72nd anniversary on May 11, 2025, India’s carrier aviation began with the commissioning of the INS Vikrant in 1961. Since the 1960s, India has operated four carriers — the INS Vikrant (1961-1997), INS Viraat (1987-2017), INS Vikramaditya (since 2013), and the indigenously built INS Vikrant, which was commissioned in 2022. Through this unbroken period of 64 years, India has operated all major types of aircraft launch and recovery systems and continues to expand its carrier fleet, with future plans for additional indigenous construction.
But why does India need aircraft carriers?
India requires aircraft carriers for several strategic, military, and geopolitical reasons.
• STRATEGIC DETERRENCE AND POWER PROJECTION: Aircraft carriers enable India to assert influence and maintain favourable balance of power in the Indian Ocean, a region critical for trade, energy flow and security for India and the world.
• PROTECTION OF MARITIME INTERESTS: More than 90% of India’s trade by volume moves by sea. Carriers help secure Sea Lines of Communication (SLOCs), protect island territories, and deter potential threats.
• BLUE WATER NAVY CAPABILITY: Carriers allow the Indian Navy to operate far from home shores, reinforcing its status as a blue water force capable of extended operations and rapid responses to crises.
• CONTINUOUS OPERATIONAL READINESS: Having multiple carriers ensures that at least one is always operational on each coast, even as others are in maintenance or refit.
• NON-MILITARY ROLES: Carriers also play a vital role in Humanitarian & Disaster Relief (HADR) operations that project India’s soft power and the ability to respond to regional emergencies and calamities, which are not uncommon in the Indian Ocean Region.
How will the Rafale Ms help the Navy?
Over the years, India has operated a wide variety of carrier-based fighters — from Sea Hawks, Alizes, Sea Harriers and, at present, the very capable fourth generation MiG-29Ks. The country is now developing the fifth generation Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), that is likely to be operationalised in the middle of the next decade. The 26 Rafale M jets, a 4.5 generation battle-proven combat aircraft, will augment the existing MiG-29K fleet.
A great advantage that accrues with the induction of the 26 Rafale Ms for the Indian Navy is the commonality with the IAF Rafales. This provides the desirable scope for interoperability and joint training, as well as for maintenance and safe practices of these assets and their aircrew between the two services. The induction of this very capable aircraft in the coming years is a shot in the arm for the Indian armed forces, and shall ensure continued and enhanced combat capabilities across the full spectrum of India’s military might.
https://indianexpress.com/article/expla ... y-9973586/
30 April 2025
By Rear Admiral Mukul Asthana (Retd) - a naval aviator who retired from the Indian Navy in October 2020 as Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Air).
India and France on Monday signed a $7.4 billion (approximately Rs 63,000 crore) government-to-government contract for 26 Rafale Marine (Rafale M) fighter aircraft for the Indian Navy. Thirty-six Rafale aircraft were earlier inducted into the Indian Air Force from 2021 onward.
Why is the induction of the Rafale M important in the context of the Indian Navy?
First, what is meant by naval aviation?
Naval aviation is the use of military air power by navies, involving aircraft that operate from warships — such as aircraft carriers and other aircraft — or helicopter-carrying surface combatants, or land bases to support naval operations. It includes specialised naval aircraft designed to meet the unique demands of carrier operations and small decks, such as short takeoffs and arrested landings, and roles such as air-to-air combat, surface and submarine attack, maritime reconnaissance, search and rescue, and logistical support.
The key roles of naval aviation include:
• FLEET AIR DEFENCE: providing air cover for naval forces beyond the reach of land-based aircraft;
• STRATEGIC POWER PROJECTION: allowing deployment of air power without needing land bases;
• ANTI-SURFACE WARFARE: attacking enemy ships with air-launched missiles;
• SUPPORTING AMPHIBIOUS WARFARE: aiding marine landings and operations inland; and
• MINE COUNTERMEASURES: using aircraft to detect and clear enemy mines.
Naval aviation is crucial for maintaining control of the seas, supporting naval and ground forces, and projecting military power along distant shores. It includes fixed-wing carrier borne squadrons, land-based Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA), Helicopters and Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPA) operated from warships and ashore.
And what exactly is an aircraft carrier?
An aircraft carrier is a warship that serves as a seagoing airbase, equipped with a full-length flight deck and hangar facilities for supporting, arming, deploying, and recovering shipborne aircraft. It allows a naval force to project seaborne air power far from its homeland without having to rely on airfields ashore. Aircraft carriers as part of the Carrier Battle Groups are often the centerpiece of modern naval warfare, with significant strategic and diplomatic influence in deterrence, command of the sea, and air supremacy. Aircraft carriers are also adaptable and survivable airfields that are ready to control the seas, conduct strikes, and manoeuvre across the electromagnetic spectrum and cyberspace. About 50 carriers, operated by the navies of several countries, are currently active around the world. The United States Navy leads with 11 large nuclear powered carriers followed by Brazil, China, France, India, Italy, Russia, Spain, Thailand and the United Kingdom.
What is the history of carrier aviation in India?
While Indian naval aviation will celebrate its 72nd anniversary on May 11, 2025, India’s carrier aviation began with the commissioning of the INS Vikrant in 1961. Since the 1960s, India has operated four carriers — the INS Vikrant (1961-1997), INS Viraat (1987-2017), INS Vikramaditya (since 2013), and the indigenously built INS Vikrant, which was commissioned in 2022. Through this unbroken period of 64 years, India has operated all major types of aircraft launch and recovery systems and continues to expand its carrier fleet, with future plans for additional indigenous construction.
But why does India need aircraft carriers?
India requires aircraft carriers for several strategic, military, and geopolitical reasons.
• STRATEGIC DETERRENCE AND POWER PROJECTION: Aircraft carriers enable India to assert influence and maintain favourable balance of power in the Indian Ocean, a region critical for trade, energy flow and security for India and the world.
• PROTECTION OF MARITIME INTERESTS: More than 90% of India’s trade by volume moves by sea. Carriers help secure Sea Lines of Communication (SLOCs), protect island territories, and deter potential threats.
• BLUE WATER NAVY CAPABILITY: Carriers allow the Indian Navy to operate far from home shores, reinforcing its status as a blue water force capable of extended operations and rapid responses to crises.
• CONTINUOUS OPERATIONAL READINESS: Having multiple carriers ensures that at least one is always operational on each coast, even as others are in maintenance or refit.
• NON-MILITARY ROLES: Carriers also play a vital role in Humanitarian & Disaster Relief (HADR) operations that project India’s soft power and the ability to respond to regional emergencies and calamities, which are not uncommon in the Indian Ocean Region.
How will the Rafale Ms help the Navy?
Over the years, India has operated a wide variety of carrier-based fighters — from Sea Hawks, Alizes, Sea Harriers and, at present, the very capable fourth generation MiG-29Ks. The country is now developing the fifth generation Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), that is likely to be operationalised in the middle of the next decade. The 26 Rafale M jets, a 4.5 generation battle-proven combat aircraft, will augment the existing MiG-29K fleet.
A great advantage that accrues with the induction of the 26 Rafale Ms for the Indian Navy is the commonality with the IAF Rafales. This provides the desirable scope for interoperability and joint training, as well as for maintenance and safe practices of these assets and their aircrew between the two services. The induction of this very capable aircraft in the coming years is a shot in the arm for the Indian armed forces, and shall ensure continued and enhanced combat capabilities across the full spectrum of India’s military might.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Thanks Rakesh. Rafale F4.2 standard will be good to have in IAF as well. Perhaps order for another 40-60 Rafale F4.2 and till then LCA Mk2 and Super Sukhoi should have picked up steam.Rakesh wrote: ↑29 Apr 2025 06:07If schedule in the below article is being followed, then it should be F4.2 as the first Indian Navy Rafale M has to be delivered to the customer by May 2028.
Latest-Generation Rafale Fighter Enters French Air Force Service
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ce-service
March 07, 2023
The DGA began flight tests of the F4 upgrade in April 2021, at a time when clearance of the full F4 standard was planned for 2024, with some functions becoming available in an initial standard in 2022. It has been estimated that all in-service French Rafales will be at the Rafale F4.2 standard by 2030.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
How different is the F4.2 standard compared with the IAF version with India-specific enhancements. Some of the capabilities may be comparable. For example while the exact ISE changes were never specified news reports suggested that the RBE2 radar had upgrades for SAR and GMTI modes (both are air-to-ground mdoes) along with enhancements to the EW system (low-band jammer and RWR upgrade). Now wiki says the F4 incorporates air-to-ground upgrades for the RBE2 along with upgrades for the Spectra EW suite. It is entirely possible there is an overlap here.Sumeet wrote: ↑01 May 2025 03:08Thanks Rakesh. Rafale F4.2 standard will be good to have in IAF as well. Perhaps order for another 40-60 Rafale F4.2 and till then LCA Mk2 and Super Sukhoi should have picked up steam.Rakesh wrote: ↑29 Apr 2025 06:07 If schedule in the below article is being followed, then it should be F4.2 as the first Indian Navy Rafale M has to be delivered to the customer by May 2028.
Latest-Generation Rafale Fighter Enters French Air Force Service
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ce-service
March 07, 2023
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
From the below link is what the F4.1 variant is coming with. Info on the F4.1 variant is from Dassault's own website, so it is as authoritative as one can get. Very little "specific" info exists on the F4.2, beyond the usual sound bytes. The only guess one can make is that F4.2 will build on the capabilities of F4.1 and now unfortunately I am making a sound byte!nachiket wrote: ↑01 May 2025 03:23 How different is the F4.2 standard compared with the IAF version with India-specific enhancements. Some of the capabilities may be comparable. For example while the exact ISE changes were never specified news reports suggested that the RBE2 radar had upgrades for SAR and GMTI modes (both are air-to-ground mdoes) along with enhancements to the EW system (low-band jammer and RWR upgrade). Now wiki says the F4 incorporates air-to-ground upgrades for the RBE2 along with upgrades for the Spectra EW suite. It is entirely possible there is an overlap here.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/de ... way-ahead/
In March 2023, the F4.1 Standard was qualified by the DGA, the French defence procurement agency. It encompasses the adoption of the following equipment and weapons onto the Rafale:
• For the Front Sector Optronics, a new IRST that will advantageously supplement the Rafale’s existing sensor suite, providing improved day/night passive target detection and identification capabilities against low signature aircraft through the infrared spectrum.
• For the RBE2 AESA radar, new Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and Ground Mobile Target Indication and Tracking (GMTI/T) modes. These improvements significantly enhance the Rafale’s ability to produce, in all weathers, high resolution radar imagery at very long range and to detect and track ground targets.
• New collaborative modes to increase the Rafale’s detection, tracking and firing capabilities, thus significantly increasing again the lethality of the fighter.
• The Thales SCORPION® helmet-mounted display to accelerate the designation and acquisition of targets, and new, larger side cockpit displays that offer improved resolution.
• The HAMMER family now includes the 1000 kg variants that retain the modularity of the 250 kg variants thanks to various guidance kits affixed to various types of bomb bodies. The HAMMER 1000 kg brings new multitarget stand-off capabilities against larger or more hardened targets. The Rafale can carry three HAMMER 1000 weapons while still offering a very long range.
The introduction of the F4.1 Standard has begun and new functionalities and equipment will be introduced over the course of the decade:
• The MICA NG (New Generation) air-to-air missile.
• Major improvements in the field of connectivity, with a communication server, a Satcom satellite link and new software radios of the CONTACT (Communications numériques tactiques et de théâtre, digital tactical and theater-wide radio communications) family.
• A new digital jammer for the SPECTRA self-defence / electronic warfare suite.
New developments have been launched to provide the Rafale with new capabilities in the next decade. These developments will allow new, emerging threats to be defeated while improving the Rafale’s survivability thanks to the adoption of new, low probability of interception modes and of a state-of-the-art electronic warfare suite. The integration of more and more powerful artificial intelligence algorithms will help the pilot manage the collaborative combat sphere during increasingly complex missions, when facing more and more elusive threats.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
It is my understanding (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that Rafale ISE (India-specific enhancements) can be installed on Rafales for other countries provided that prior approval is obtained from both govts (India and France) and a royalty is paid to India (who, after all, developed and paid for these ISE in the first place). I believe the Greek Rafales are going to get these ISE.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
@ Roop: I am unsure about the royalties, but I believe the rest of your post is correct.
The Greeks are monitoring the integration and trials of the Astra series on the Rafale. Like India, their defence budget is also not unlimited* and would be eager to integrate cheaper weaponry with similar characteristics to their "boutique" MBDA counterparts.
*A luxury afforded to a few countries like UAE who purchases 80 Rafale F4.2s and Qatar that has a zoo of state-of-the-art 4th+ gen fighters.
Indian tech in Greek Rafales? A quiet leap for Make in India
https://sundayguardianlive.com/top-five ... e-in-india
06 April 2025
The Greeks are monitoring the integration and trials of the Astra series on the Rafale. Like India, their defence budget is also not unlimited* and would be eager to integrate cheaper weaponry with similar characteristics to their "boutique" MBDA counterparts.
*A luxury afforded to a few countries like UAE who purchases 80 Rafale F4.2s and Qatar that has a zoo of state-of-the-art 4th+ gen fighters.
Indian tech in Greek Rafales? A quiet leap for Make in India
https://sundayguardianlive.com/top-five ... e-in-india
06 April 2025
The possibility of Indian technological components in the jets supplied to Greece could include avionics, software, structural parts, or even adaptations from systems like the Astra missile and Smart Anti-Airfield Weapon (SAAW), which are already integrated into IAF Rafales.
This would align with France’s efforts to diversify its supply chains and India’s “Make in India” vision.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Safran doing PR...in lieu of laying the groundwork for a MRO + assembly facility for the M88 turbofan in India
https://x.com/SafranEngines/status/1917836386817958029 --->
[#ThursdayPhoto] Have you recognized the engine hiding in these photos, #AvGeeks?
Hint: It will power the future fleet of the @indiannavy's #Rafale Marine.
@Dassault_OnAir #India
https://x.com/SafranEngines/status/1917836386817958029 --->
[#ThursdayPhoto] Have you recognized the engine hiding in these photos, #AvGeeks?
Hint: It will power the future fleet of the @indiannavy's #Rafale Marine.
@Dassault_OnAir #India
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Perspective: India, France Mega Rafale Deal
The Governments of India and France have signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for the procurement of 26 Rafale aircraft (22 Single-Seater and four Twin Seater) for the Indian Navy. Manufactured by France's Dassault Aviation, the Rafale-Marine is a carrier-borne combat-ready aircraft with proven operational capabilities in maritime environments. The delivery of these aircraft would be completed by 2030, with the crew undergoing training in France and India. In this episode, we discuss the critical aspects of the landmark deal and how the induction of Rafale M will significantly boost the operational capability of the Indian Navy.
ON THE PANEL: Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha (Retd.), Former Commander-in-Chief, Western Naval Command and Major General Dhruv C. Katoch (Retd.), Director, India Foundation. Anchor & Producer: Teena Jha
The Governments of India and France have signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) for the procurement of 26 Rafale aircraft (22 Single-Seater and four Twin Seater) for the Indian Navy. Manufactured by France's Dassault Aviation, the Rafale-Marine is a carrier-borne combat-ready aircraft with proven operational capabilities in maritime environments. The delivery of these aircraft would be completed by 2030, with the crew undergoing training in France and India. In this episode, we discuss the critical aspects of the landmark deal and how the induction of Rafale M will significantly boost the operational capability of the Indian Navy.
ON THE PANEL: Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha (Retd.), Former Commander-in-Chief, Western Naval Command and Major General Dhruv C. Katoch (Retd.), Director, India Foundation. Anchor & Producer: Teena Jha
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
^ Will the carrier training happen in the US?
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Thanks Rakesh for answering.Rakesh wrote: ↑01 May 2025 06:30From the below link is what the F4.1 variant is coming with. Info on the F4.1 variant is from Dassault's own website, so it is as authoritative as one can get. Very little "specific" info exists on the F4.2, beyond the usual sound bytes. The only guess one can make is that F4.2 will build on the capabilities of F4.1 and now unfortunately I am making a sound byte!nachiket wrote: ↑01 May 2025 03:23 How different is the F4.2 standard compared with the IAF version with India-specific enhancements. Some of the capabilities may be comparable. For example while the exact ISE changes were never specified news reports suggested that the RBE2 radar had upgrades for SAR and GMTI modes (both are air-to-ground mdoes) along with enhancements to the EW system (low-band jammer and RWR upgrade). Now wiki says the F4 incorporates air-to-ground upgrades for the RBE2 along with upgrades for the Spectra EW suite. It is entirely possible there is an overlap here.
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/de ... way-ahead/
Nachiket I would have shared the same link as its as official as it gets.
I think difference will be in:
- New IRST,
Net centric warfare, communication enhancements & collaborative attack planning and execution
New digital jammer for Spectra
https://civils.pteducation.com/2022/01/ ... -DEAL.html
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Start with Joint training itself... to have greater synergy for the later joint exercises.
And of course it can help if the young pilots are suitably influenced enough to then ask the government to go for the US stuff when they reach the post of Air chiefs.
The politicos, babus, journos, milards all have progeny being cultivated in the US. Add the military as well
No need for coup
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Saar, all of this is already happening. Forget young officers, we had a Rear Admiral who resigned from the Indian Navy...just so that he could become the head of Boeing India and whose primary mission was to facilitate the entry of the F-18SH into the Indian Navy. And he was a naval aviator who did a trap on a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier. Despite this, the Indian Navy ended up with the Rafale M. Now that is what you call a coup!Manish_P wrote: ↑02 May 2025 07:19 Start with Joint training itself... to have greater synergy for the later joint exercises.
And of course it can help if the young pilots are suitably influenced enough to then ask the government to go for the US stuff when they reach the post of Air chiefs.
The politicos, babus, journos, milards all have progeny being cultivated in the US. Add the military as well
No need for coup
I still believe that a small order of Naval Tejas Mk1s will come to provide training for novice Rafale M pilots.
See this interview - featuring Vice Admiral Shekhar Sinha (retd) - on why the Rafale M was chosen by the Indian Navy. Some very interesting tidbits of info in his interview i.e. Indian hardware and weaponry are coming to IN Rafale Ms --->viewtopic.php?p=2644708#p2644708 and for obvious reasons, he does not specify which hardware.
Paging maitya-ji as well to get into this discussion on the hardware...
maitya wrote:...
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Rafale Marine jets to make carriers fully operational, boost maritime power: Defence Secy Rajesh Singh
https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/india-fr ... 596451.htm
29 April 2025
India has finalised a ₹63,000-crore agreement with France to procure 26 Rafale Marine fighter jets, significantly boosting the Indian Navy’s airpower. The purchase includes 22 single-seater jets and four twin-seater trainer aircraft. Deliveries are set to begin in the coming years and are expected to be completed by 2031. The deal comes amid growing strategic and diplomatic pressure from the United States, which has been urging India to expand its defence purchases from American manufacturers.
India has finalised a ₹63,000-crore agreement with France to procure 26 Rafale Marine fighter jets, significantly boosting the Indian Navy’s airpower. The purchase includes 22 single-seater jets and 4 twin-seater trainer aircraft. Deliveries are set to begin in the coming years and are expected to be completed by 2031. These naval variants of the Rafale will be deployed on India’s aircraft carriers, INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya, gradually replacing the ageing MiG-29K fleet.
The deal comes amid growing strategic and diplomatic pressure from the United States, which has been urging India to expand its defence purchases from American manufacturers. Last month, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) also approved capital procurement proposals worth ₹54,000 crore, reflecting the government's ongoing push to strengthen indigenous defence capabilities. In an exclusive conversation with CNBC-TV18, Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh shared insights into the Rafale Marine deal and outlined India's broader defence procurement strategy.
Below is the edited transcript of the interview.
Q: How will the acquisition of 26 Rafale Marine aircraft boost our maritime capability?
Singh: The Rafale Marine aircraft will ensure that our two carriers are fully operational and equipped with an adequate number of fighter aircraft. As you know, this particular aircraft was chosen after a process in which other options were also evaluated, and thereafter, the best among them was selected.
We expect this to significantly add to our maritime power projection capabilities and also augment the number of fighter aircraft within the Indian Navy. All in all, it is going to add significantly to our ability to project power through the Navy across the Indian Ocean region, and we hope this will ensure our carrier battle groups become fully operational and create a significant impact in the entire Indian Ocean region.
Q: How will the Indian defence supply chain benefit from a deal of this kind? This is not just for acquiring 26 aircraft, but also for maintenance, repair, overhaul facilities, and potentially a fuselage manufacturing facility in the future.
Singh: Yes. The intergovernmental agreement under this deal involves setting up an MRO facility in India, which is expected to be completed in five years. This would enable our Navy and Air Force fleets to undertake depot-level maintenance of the Rafale aircraft within India.
The indigenisation plan includes manufacturing and assembling the front, middle, and aft sections of Rafale aircraft fuselages. It also includes setting up a fully-qualified supply chain to enable maintenance and repair of major Rafale subassemblies, such as radar and EW systems, as well as establishing an MRO facility for depot-level maintenance of the M88 engine modules. This is particularly important because it will be the first facility outside France to meet the requirements of M88 engines worldwide. In addition, we will also be providing MRO and mid-life overhaul of MICA missiles in India. So, all in all, a significant ecosystem will develop as part of this deal.
Q: Considering the production and long-term maintenance facilities being set up, can we assume that India is seriously considering inducting more Rafale aircraft into our forces — not just in the Navy, but in the Air Force as well? This is a platform we already have, and there is a push for complementarities between the Navy and Air Force.
Singh: I don't want to anticipate what is going to happen in the future. Obviously, when we do any such procurement, we will look at all options, including Rafale. But no, I can’t... It’s a nice try by you, but I can't give you any answer right now as to what the eventual procurement decision will be.
Q: What about the importance of Indian defence PSUs or manufacturers in this deal over the next 5-10 years, once the agreement and the manufacturing setup are in place? How will Indian defence suppliers benefit?
Singh: I don’t think we are looking at this as beneficial only for the public sector. We expect a large number of Indian private players and industry partners to be part of this ecosystem, including in the MRO facilities and in constructing parts of the fuselage in India. In each of these cases, we expect private Indian partners to benefit. That ecosystem, hopefully, will ultimately lead to the growth of a robust public and private aeronautics industrial complex in the country.
Q: The US, through JD Vance, recently made a proposal to offer cutting-edge stealth F-35 jets to India. This is the second such proposal in three months. Is the Indian government considering this? Are any talks ongoing with the US government?
Singh: The short answer is, not as yet. I don't think there's a concrete written proposal at this point. As and when that happens, of course, it will be evaluated by the Air Force, which will assess the capabilities and advise the government. But as of now, it hasn’t reached a stage where we can say it's being discussed in detail. Once a concrete proposal comes, we’ll see.
Q: But does it, in any way, meet our needs, considering we already have Sukhois and Rafales? Does it make sense to acquire American fighter jets?
Singh: We'll evaluate those options. I think there is a generational difference to some extent, but yes, we'll evaluate all options. We’ll be guided by the Air Force. As I said, it's too premature to discuss this right now.
Q: The Defence Acquisition Council approved ₹54,000 crore worth of capital acquisitions for the Navy, Air Force, and Army last month. How will this add to the order pipeline for our defence industry?
Singh: You’ll find that the bulk of that particular DAC approval, amounting to ₹54,000 crore, involves almost 90% procurement from indigenous sources. These orders will augment the existing order book of our major defence industry players and support the vision of Aatmanirbhar Bharat. As you may have noticed, we’ve earmarked 70% of our capital modernisation budget for the domestic industry. The actual figure will likely exceed that. In the last two years, if you see, the total AoNs accorded amount to ₹6.6 lakh crore, and about 83% of this has been directed at and earmarked for indigenous sources. So yes, the journey toward aatmanirbharta is very much on track and progressing well.
Q: Defence Minister Rajnath Singh has called 2025 the "year of reforms." The government recently approved guidelines to shorten the defence procurement process. What can we expect in the next few weeks, and what is the overall aim?
Singh: We’ve identified that various parts of our procurement process, from cost negotiations to field evaluation trials to preparation of RFPs, had timelines that were often unnecessarily elongated. Through the DAC, we’ve already decided to compress many of these timelines. Essentially, we are aiming to introduce higher accountability within our system, particularly among the committees handling FATs or RFPs. The DAC has already decided to compress many of those steps to shave off several weeks from the process.
At a broader level, there could be procedural changes needed. For this, we’ve set up a committee under the DG (acquisition). The intent is to finalise updates and amendments to DAP 2020 within the next six months. So, we are doing two things in parallel: In the short term, compressing timelines; and in the medium term, amending procedures to align with current requirements through stakeholder consultations.
Q: Minister Rajnath Singh has said manufacturing aero engines is going to be a priority. Could you give us a sense of what the government plans in this area?
Singh: As you may know, there are two parallel tracks. One involves technology transfer for the General Electric F414 engine. HAL is negotiating this with GE, and it’s making progress. This will help us meet jet engine requirements in the interim. But in the long term, to achieve strategic autonomy, we need our own Indian IPR-based jet engine. We are in touch with certain Indian entities and will be taking a call on this. It will involve a national mission, but that’s still further down the line. We are reviewing some of the proposals and once we decide, the press will be informed.
Q: On the F414 engines, price negotiations have been ongoing. Could you give us a status update? Do you believe a manufacturing line could come up this year?
Singh: This year? I hope so. This negotiation is being led by HAL, and we don’t get into the nitty-gritty of those talks. But we’ve been urging both GE and HAL to expedite the process so that our production schedule for future platforms, specifically Mark 2, is not affected. So yes, we’re pushing for it, but the details are being handled by those two agencies.
Q: On integrated theatre commands, which was one of the reform priorities mentioned by the defence minister, can we expect any announcements soon?
Singh: I wouldn’t be able to say. This is something being led by the chief of defence staff. But I do know that they are working closely on creating greater jointness across service functions, whether it is logistics or procurement. He’s working on improving coordination among the three services, and I believe good progress is being made. Whether any announcements are imminent, I wouldn’t be able to say.
Q: Could you give us a sense of the government's push for more acquisitions and orders this year? Recently, the government cleared a deal for P-75 submarines involving Mazagon Dock Ltd and ThyssenKrupp. What are the major focus areas this year?
Singh: The case you mentioned is still not final, it’s still in the works. I won’t speak about specific procurements, but I can share that we are working at a much faster pace now. In the last financial year, we signed contracts worth about ₹2.09 lakh crore, almost double our previous high. In 2023-24, we hit about ₹1 lakh crore. The acceleration is evident. We are also improving visibility across the defence ecosystem so that vendors, including tier-1 and tier-2 suppliers, are aware of upcoming procurements and can plan accordingly. Our aim is twofold — to fully utilise the fiscal resources the government provides, and to finalise contracts quickly. Unless contracts are finalised, capability gaps cannot be addressed. In the recent past, we have made a serious push to address many of these gaps.
Q: My final question is on the fallout of the Pahalgam attack. What’s your reading of the situation, and how is India preparing to deal with Pakistan-sponsored terror in the long term?
Singh: I think the prime minister has spoken for the nation on this. I don’t have anything further to add. In any case, these are not matters we discuss in advance. But yes, our job is to ensure our services are capable and equipped to handle any eventuality, and we are fully intent on ensuring that.
https://www.cnbctv18.com/india/india-fr ... 596451.htm
29 April 2025
India has finalised a ₹63,000-crore agreement with France to procure 26 Rafale Marine fighter jets, significantly boosting the Indian Navy’s airpower. The purchase includes 22 single-seater jets and four twin-seater trainer aircraft. Deliveries are set to begin in the coming years and are expected to be completed by 2031. The deal comes amid growing strategic and diplomatic pressure from the United States, which has been urging India to expand its defence purchases from American manufacturers.
India has finalised a ₹63,000-crore agreement with France to procure 26 Rafale Marine fighter jets, significantly boosting the Indian Navy’s airpower. The purchase includes 22 single-seater jets and 4 twin-seater trainer aircraft. Deliveries are set to begin in the coming years and are expected to be completed by 2031. These naval variants of the Rafale will be deployed on India’s aircraft carriers, INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya, gradually replacing the ageing MiG-29K fleet.
The deal comes amid growing strategic and diplomatic pressure from the United States, which has been urging India to expand its defence purchases from American manufacturers. Last month, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) also approved capital procurement proposals worth ₹54,000 crore, reflecting the government's ongoing push to strengthen indigenous defence capabilities. In an exclusive conversation with CNBC-TV18, Defence Secretary Rajesh Kumar Singh shared insights into the Rafale Marine deal and outlined India's broader defence procurement strategy.
Below is the edited transcript of the interview.
Q: How will the acquisition of 26 Rafale Marine aircraft boost our maritime capability?
Singh: The Rafale Marine aircraft will ensure that our two carriers are fully operational and equipped with an adequate number of fighter aircraft. As you know, this particular aircraft was chosen after a process in which other options were also evaluated, and thereafter, the best among them was selected.
We expect this to significantly add to our maritime power projection capabilities and also augment the number of fighter aircraft within the Indian Navy. All in all, it is going to add significantly to our ability to project power through the Navy across the Indian Ocean region, and we hope this will ensure our carrier battle groups become fully operational and create a significant impact in the entire Indian Ocean region.
Q: How will the Indian defence supply chain benefit from a deal of this kind? This is not just for acquiring 26 aircraft, but also for maintenance, repair, overhaul facilities, and potentially a fuselage manufacturing facility in the future.
Singh: Yes. The intergovernmental agreement under this deal involves setting up an MRO facility in India, which is expected to be completed in five years. This would enable our Navy and Air Force fleets to undertake depot-level maintenance of the Rafale aircraft within India.
The indigenisation plan includes manufacturing and assembling the front, middle, and aft sections of Rafale aircraft fuselages. It also includes setting up a fully-qualified supply chain to enable maintenance and repair of major Rafale subassemblies, such as radar and EW systems, as well as establishing an MRO facility for depot-level maintenance of the M88 engine modules. This is particularly important because it will be the first facility outside France to meet the requirements of M88 engines worldwide. In addition, we will also be providing MRO and mid-life overhaul of MICA missiles in India. So, all in all, a significant ecosystem will develop as part of this deal.
Q: Considering the production and long-term maintenance facilities being set up, can we assume that India is seriously considering inducting more Rafale aircraft into our forces — not just in the Navy, but in the Air Force as well? This is a platform we already have, and there is a push for complementarities between the Navy and Air Force.
Singh: I don't want to anticipate what is going to happen in the future. Obviously, when we do any such procurement, we will look at all options, including Rafale. But no, I can’t... It’s a nice try by you, but I can't give you any answer right now as to what the eventual procurement decision will be.
Q: What about the importance of Indian defence PSUs or manufacturers in this deal over the next 5-10 years, once the agreement and the manufacturing setup are in place? How will Indian defence suppliers benefit?
Singh: I don’t think we are looking at this as beneficial only for the public sector. We expect a large number of Indian private players and industry partners to be part of this ecosystem, including in the MRO facilities and in constructing parts of the fuselage in India. In each of these cases, we expect private Indian partners to benefit. That ecosystem, hopefully, will ultimately lead to the growth of a robust public and private aeronautics industrial complex in the country.
Q: The US, through JD Vance, recently made a proposal to offer cutting-edge stealth F-35 jets to India. This is the second such proposal in three months. Is the Indian government considering this? Are any talks ongoing with the US government?
Singh: The short answer is, not as yet. I don't think there's a concrete written proposal at this point. As and when that happens, of course, it will be evaluated by the Air Force, which will assess the capabilities and advise the government. But as of now, it hasn’t reached a stage where we can say it's being discussed in detail. Once a concrete proposal comes, we’ll see.
Q: But does it, in any way, meet our needs, considering we already have Sukhois and Rafales? Does it make sense to acquire American fighter jets?
Singh: We'll evaluate those options. I think there is a generational difference to some extent, but yes, we'll evaluate all options. We’ll be guided by the Air Force. As I said, it's too premature to discuss this right now.
Q: The Defence Acquisition Council approved ₹54,000 crore worth of capital acquisitions for the Navy, Air Force, and Army last month. How will this add to the order pipeline for our defence industry?
Singh: You’ll find that the bulk of that particular DAC approval, amounting to ₹54,000 crore, involves almost 90% procurement from indigenous sources. These orders will augment the existing order book of our major defence industry players and support the vision of Aatmanirbhar Bharat. As you may have noticed, we’ve earmarked 70% of our capital modernisation budget for the domestic industry. The actual figure will likely exceed that. In the last two years, if you see, the total AoNs accorded amount to ₹6.6 lakh crore, and about 83% of this has been directed at and earmarked for indigenous sources. So yes, the journey toward aatmanirbharta is very much on track and progressing well.
Q: Defence Minister Rajnath Singh has called 2025 the "year of reforms." The government recently approved guidelines to shorten the defence procurement process. What can we expect in the next few weeks, and what is the overall aim?
Singh: We’ve identified that various parts of our procurement process, from cost negotiations to field evaluation trials to preparation of RFPs, had timelines that were often unnecessarily elongated. Through the DAC, we’ve already decided to compress many of these timelines. Essentially, we are aiming to introduce higher accountability within our system, particularly among the committees handling FATs or RFPs. The DAC has already decided to compress many of those steps to shave off several weeks from the process.
At a broader level, there could be procedural changes needed. For this, we’ve set up a committee under the DG (acquisition). The intent is to finalise updates and amendments to DAP 2020 within the next six months. So, we are doing two things in parallel: In the short term, compressing timelines; and in the medium term, amending procedures to align with current requirements through stakeholder consultations.
Q: Minister Rajnath Singh has said manufacturing aero engines is going to be a priority. Could you give us a sense of what the government plans in this area?
Singh: As you may know, there are two parallel tracks. One involves technology transfer for the General Electric F414 engine. HAL is negotiating this with GE, and it’s making progress. This will help us meet jet engine requirements in the interim. But in the long term, to achieve strategic autonomy, we need our own Indian IPR-based jet engine. We are in touch with certain Indian entities and will be taking a call on this. It will involve a national mission, but that’s still further down the line. We are reviewing some of the proposals and once we decide, the press will be informed.
Q: On the F414 engines, price negotiations have been ongoing. Could you give us a status update? Do you believe a manufacturing line could come up this year?
Singh: This year? I hope so. This negotiation is being led by HAL, and we don’t get into the nitty-gritty of those talks. But we’ve been urging both GE and HAL to expedite the process so that our production schedule for future platforms, specifically Mark 2, is not affected. So yes, we’re pushing for it, but the details are being handled by those two agencies.
Q: On integrated theatre commands, which was one of the reform priorities mentioned by the defence minister, can we expect any announcements soon?
Singh: I wouldn’t be able to say. This is something being led by the chief of defence staff. But I do know that they are working closely on creating greater jointness across service functions, whether it is logistics or procurement. He’s working on improving coordination among the three services, and I believe good progress is being made. Whether any announcements are imminent, I wouldn’t be able to say.
Q: Could you give us a sense of the government's push for more acquisitions and orders this year? Recently, the government cleared a deal for P-75 submarines involving Mazagon Dock Ltd and ThyssenKrupp. What are the major focus areas this year?
Singh: The case you mentioned is still not final, it’s still in the works. I won’t speak about specific procurements, but I can share that we are working at a much faster pace now. In the last financial year, we signed contracts worth about ₹2.09 lakh crore, almost double our previous high. In 2023-24, we hit about ₹1 lakh crore. The acceleration is evident. We are also improving visibility across the defence ecosystem so that vendors, including tier-1 and tier-2 suppliers, are aware of upcoming procurements and can plan accordingly. Our aim is twofold — to fully utilise the fiscal resources the government provides, and to finalise contracts quickly. Unless contracts are finalised, capability gaps cannot be addressed. In the recent past, we have made a serious push to address many of these gaps.
Q: My final question is on the fallout of the Pahalgam attack. What’s your reading of the situation, and how is India preparing to deal with Pakistan-sponsored terror in the long term?
Singh: I think the prime minister has spoken for the nation on this. I don’t have anything further to add. In any case, these are not matters we discuss in advance. But yes, our job is to ensure our services are capable and equipped to handle any eventuality, and we are fully intent on ensuring that.
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ashishvikas
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Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Dassault Aviation & @tataadvanced sign 4 Production Transfer Agreements to manufacture #Rafale fighter fuselage in India
TASL to set up production facility in #Hyderabad
1st fuselage sections expected to roll off in FY2028, facility to deliver up to 2 fuselages per month
https://x.com/dperi84/status/1930540818 ... j12nw&s=19
TASL to set up production facility in #Hyderabad
1st fuselage sections expected to roll off in FY2028, facility to deliver up to 2 fuselages per month
https://x.com/dperi84/status/1930540818 ... j12nw&s=19
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Rafale to don 'Make in India' badge: Why it's a game changer
https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-i ... 2025-06-05
05 June 2025
https://www.indiatoday.in/india-today-i ... 2025-06-05
05 June 2025
In a first, fuselage parts of India's frontline combat jet will be built outside France, with Hyderabad emerging as a critical node in global defence manufacturing.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
^^^^ 
From: Times of India
Big defence boost! Rafale fighter aircraft fuselages to be made by Tata & Dassault in India; first time outside France
From: Times of India
Big defence boost! Rafale fighter aircraft fuselages to be made by Tata & Dassault in India; first time outside France
In a boost for ‘Make in India’ defence projects, Rafale fighter aircraft fuselage will now be manufactured by Tata Advanced Systems in the country. Tata Advanced Systems has entered into four Production Transfer Agreements with Dassault Aviation for manufacturing Rafale fighter aircraft fuselages in India, marking the first instance of these components being produced outside of France.
According to Dassault, this substantial investment will establish a crucial centre for precision manufacturing within India's aerospace sector.
The collaboration involves Tata Advanced Systems establishing an advanced manufacturing facility in Hyderabad. This unit will produce essential structural components of the Rafale, comprising the lateral shells of the rear fuselage, complete rear section, central fuselage and front section, according to an ET report.
The fuselage is the central body structure of an aircraft that serves as the main housing unit. It consists of a long hollow cylindrical structure that connects various components of the aircraft whilst maintaining minimal weight through its hollow construction. The specific design of the fuselage varies based on the aircraft's intended purpose.
The fuselage sections are scheduled to begin production in FY2028, with the facility aiming to produce two complete fuselages monthly.
Eric Trappier, Chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation, said: "This is a decisive step in strengthening our supply chain in India. Thanks to the expansion of our local partners, including TASL, one of the major players in the Indian aerospace industry, this supply chain will contribute to the successful ramp-up of the Rafale, and, with our support, will meet our quality and competitiveness requirements".
Sukaran Singh, Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director, Tata Advanced Systems Limited, said, "This partnership marks a significant step in India's aerospace journey. The production of the complete Rafale fuselage in India underscores the deepening trust in Tata Advanced Systems' capabilities and the strength of our collaboration with Dassault Aviation. It also reflects the remarkable progress India has made in establishing a modern, robust aerospace manufacturing ecosystem that can support global platforms."
The collaboration intends to bolster India's standing in the international aerospace manufacturing network, whilst advancing its objective of economic independence, according to Dassault.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Dassault Aviation partners with Tata Advanced Systems to make Rafale fighter jet’s fuselage in India
https://www.opindia.com/2025/06/dassaul ... -in-india/
05 June 2025
https://www.opindia.com/2025/06/dassaul ... -in-india/
05 June 2025
Tata Advanced Systems will set up a cutting-edge production facility in Hyderabad for the manufacture of key structural sections of the Rafale, including the lateral shells of the rear fuselage, the complete rear section, the central fuselage, and the front section.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
India Rafale Deal | 'Made In India' Rafale: French 'Kiss' For IAF Mega Deal?
In a mega tie-up between Tata and Dassault, Made-in-India Rafale will soon be a reality. On India Matters today, Shiv Aroor explains the timeline of event and was joined by Air Marshal Anil Chopra (R) to discuss what this means to India.
In a mega tie-up between Tata and Dassault, Made-in-India Rafale will soon be a reality. On India Matters today, Shiv Aroor explains the timeline of event and was joined by Air Marshal Anil Chopra (R) to discuss what this means to India.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
‘Aatmanirbhar Bharat’ Takes Flight with Rafale Deal
https://defencestories.com/2025/06/05/a ... for-india/
05 June 2025
https://defencestories.com/2025/06/05/a ... for-india/
05 June 2025
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
https://x.com/Aryan_warlord/status/1930558177944207578 ---> 2 fuselage per month or 24/annum from 2028. Basically indicates the MRFA going to @Dassault_OnAir with 12-24 Rafale for the Indian Air Force every year starting 2027. Will ensure squadron numbers are maintained and in fact increase as 12-16 LCA and a similar batch of #Rafale are inducted year on year.
https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1930575942117892406 ---> The best part of this deal is that the TASL facility will roll out the first fuselage in FY 2028. The production rate of 2 fuselages per month is another significant aspect of the deal. At long last, there's a solution to IAF's long standing problem of depleting squadron numbers.
https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1930575942117892406 ---> The best part of this deal is that the TASL facility will roll out the first fuselage in FY 2028. The production rate of 2 fuselages per month is another significant aspect of the deal. At long last, there's a solution to IAF's long standing problem of depleting squadron numbers.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
HAL will not (and should not IMVHO) get any portion of any MRFA deal.
https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1930548783114563679 ---> 24 Rafale fuselages will be manufactured per annum at the new TASL prod facility in Hyderabad. HAL will most probably build the wings and do final assembly. Or the upcoming Dassault plant at Jewar May do final assembly. With this, the fate of 114 MRFA tender has been sealed.
https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1930548783114563679 ---> 24 Rafale fuselages will be manufactured per annum at the new TASL prod facility in Hyderabad. HAL will most probably build the wings and do final assembly. Or the upcoming Dassault plant at Jewar May do final assembly. With this, the fate of 114 MRFA tender has been sealed.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
This deal with TASL sounds awesome. Hope the final deal is inked with much ado.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Given the political scenario and geo-strategic scenario that is prevailing in the country and the world, it would be a difficult decision for the current government to finalize a deal with Dassault aviation. But I do wish they make the decision and order 114 Rafale's sooner than later but this may also bring back the "Chowkidar Chor hai" sloganeering by the opposition. It will also mean that the FTA with America will face further delays and GE may not enter into a production agreement for GE-414 engines.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
On the hind-sight, I am a bit disappointed.
I hoped MRFA would have been scrapped altogether. With the ACM recent anguish, I thought LCA Mk2 would have been priorised and ramped up with Pvt sector involvement to make up the numbers.
Unkil with GE dependency has put a lot of uncertainty to our current fighter development plans and thus AF got leverage for MMRFA
I hoped MRFA would have been scrapped altogether. With the ACM recent anguish, I thought LCA Mk2 would have been priorised and ramped up with Pvt sector involvement to make up the numbers.
Unkil with GE dependency has put a lot of uncertainty to our current fighter development plans and thus AF got leverage for MMRFA
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Unlike Ambani, this is Tata we are talking about.konaseema wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 13:33 Given the political scenario and geo-strategic scenario that is prevailing in the country and the world, it would be a difficult decision for the current government to finalize a deal with Dassault aviation. But I do wish they make the decision and order 114 Rafale's sooner than later but this may also bring back the "Chowkidar Chor hai" sloganeering by the opposition. It will also mean that the FTA with America will face further delays and GE may not enter into a production agreement for GE-414 engines.
Some of the "non" Rafale business they do....
* Wings - F-16 Block 70 by TASL (Tata Advanced Systems)
* Tail fin - LCA Tejas by TAML (Tata Advanced Materials Limited)
* Fuselage - AH-64 Apache by TBAL (Tata Boeing Aviation Limited)
Setting aside the middle one, the other two are from Unkil. If RaGa goes scorched earth on Tata (like he did with Ambani), he will invite the ire of his puppet handler in the US. He will make some idiotic noises, but I doubt it will be on the same scale as the Ambani episode. Chowkidar Chor Hai has backfired on the Congress electorally.
Trump will have a meltdown if Dassault does win the MRFA order and it will result (as you indicated above) a delay with the FTA with the US and even with the GE. And when that happens, America will play right into the hands of the long-held belief - in India and the world - that they are an unreliable strategic partner. It will also further cement the notion that US arm sales to India, are just an excuse to sell their wares at exorbitant prices and not to counter China. Trump's Commerce Secretary does not help the situation with his repeated obtuse comments.
Will have to wait and see how the geopolitical events fan out.
Once thing is certain without a doubt, the Rafale is clear frontrunner in the MRFA contest (in whatever numbers the MRFA finally arrives at). None of the others - especially the US contestants - come even close, geopolitically speaking. And militarily speaking, the Rafale proved its worth during Operation Sindoor. The only viable US contender with a clear advantage is the F-35. But the Fancy Cornish Hen comes with its own set of geopolitical & technical disadvantages for India.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
In hindsight, the first thing NaMo should have done in 2014 is provide the funds required for seeing the Kaveri project to completion. 11 years later, the IAF would not be in this predicament that it is today in.Avinandan wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 16:33 On the hind-sight, I am a bit disappointed.
I hoped MRFA would have been scrapped altogether. With the ACM recent anguish, I thought LCA Mk2 would have been priorised and ramped up with Pvt sector involvement to make up the numbers.
Unkil with GE dependency has put a lot of uncertainty to our current fighter development plans and thus AF got leverage for MMRFA
The entire Tejas program (Mk1, Mk1A and Mk2) rests on turbofans coming in from GE. No Turbofan = One Expensive Paperweight.
We have seen the negative effects of the Mk1A delays, due to F404 engines not coming. The only (expensive) option right now would be to select a fighter to augment the Tejas inductions. And selecting a non-US MRFA would make ample sense for Air HQ in light of the temper-tantrum child that sits in the Oval Office. The irony of the MRFA purchase is that India is spending tens of billions of FOREX, that could have been avoided if a few billion $ were invested in turbofan development in the country. The idiom - Penny Wise, Pound Foolish - has never been more true in the MRFA vs Tejas saga.
The IAF has not been a saint either in this sordid episode. What should have been a 180 Mk1A order from Day 1, was split into two measly orders (83 first and 97 second), which has yet to receive official sanction from the GOI. If it was not for the late Manohar Parrikar-ji, the Mk1A would not have even seen the light of day! And we are repeating the same mistake with the Mk2 - 100 first and then will see about the rest later.
Sign another order with GE - for F404 turbofans - for the second tranche of 97 Mk1As. And sign an order book for at least 200+ F414 turbofans.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Rakesh ji, it's not just the current one in the oval office but the next 7-8 presidencies... Given that we will probably use the jets for say 35-40 years.
I am a non-Engineer and I know how incredibly hard it is but I still think we might be better off redesigning the Tejas, yes the Tejas, with a non US engine.
Better to lose 10 years now than risk being hobbled by the US for the next 40
We will have become an even bigger threat to the US by then anyway...
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
INC left the coffers empty. Let us say I heard it from a chaiwalla who overheard a private chai pe charcha Parrikar had with a couple of his friends. Late Parrikar ji did allude to that in a speech he gave at IITB back in 2014-15 timeframe.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
We can and should be doing 3 things in parallel.Manish_P wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 21:46Rakesh ji, it's not just the current one in the oval office but the next 7-8 presidencies... Given that we will probably use the jets for say 35-40 years.
I am a non-Engineer and I know how incredibly hard it is but I still think we might be better off redesigning the Tejas, yes the Tejas, with a non US engine.
Better to lose 10 years now than risk being hobbled by the US for the next 40
We will have become an even bigger threat to the US by then anyway...
1. Dance with the US and get the engines.
2. Make the necessary design jugaad to fit another engine - This is not a easy or a fast one BTW, but can be done.
3. Get the kaveri program working to get us the 4th gen engine ASAP and keep working on 5th gen tech.
We have the money to do all of the above now.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
<OT>williams wrote: ↑07 Jun 2025 07:30 ...
We can and should be doing 3 things in parallel.
1. Dance with the US and get the engines.
2. Make the necessary design jugaad to fit another engine - This is not a easy or a fast one BTW, but can be done.
3. Get the kaveri program working to get us the 4th gen engine ASAP and keep working on 5th gen tech.
We have the money to do all of the above now.
Yes, yes and absolutely yes.
1. We are already dancing. Just that the music is a bit slow and low at the moment. But both dancers can't help but keep looking at their old flames... leading to treading on each other's toes now and then
2. Has to be done. There will be strong opposition - from inside - think of bean counters (sunk costs), separate production (assembly) lines, logistics & maintenance nightmares ityaadi. Never mind that we have been simultaneously operating & maintaining front line fighter aircraft from at least 3 different nations. For decades.
3. No explanation or justification required is there. Get the engine into something. If not Tejas frontline then into a Advanced trainer. If not a fighter trainer then into a UCAV.
We have had the money for some time now. We are generating more money at a faster pace than before. That always helps.
</OT>
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
India has many levers to use in the case of getting the local manufacturing of both GE-404 and GE-414 engines. India can use the future orders from both Air India & Indigo or by purchasing additional P8i, MH-60R, Chinook, C-130 or even request US government to release up to 11 C-17 from its wartime reserves to offset the trade deficit. We should use them judiciously to ensure our Tejas Mk1A & Mk2 programs are not delayed further.
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Funding is one thing, but expressing support to a program is another. We didn't even support it...Wish MOD came out and said, we will make it happen, no matter what in 2014
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
Konaseema - "additional P8i, MH-60R, Chinook, C-130 or even request US government to release up to 11 C-17 from its wartime reserves to offset the trade deficit. ".. These and only these would be excellent purchases as these fulfill a gap that are not on our roadmap. Adding these reduces any deficit and improves our capabilities..
Re: Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion
...if a week has elapsed since his last meltdown. I don't think India should attach much importance to his rantings. Just don't let any GoI spokesperson comment on him publicly, leave that to the media. Arnab in full blowhard mode can give Trump a run for his money any day of the week.
Well, you would hope so. I certainly hope so. But I just don't understand the advanced level of incompetence of the GoI defence acquisition system that this damned program still exists. The MRFA should have been cancelled long ago (as in, several years ago) and the G-to-G contract directly awarded to France for the Rafale latest variant. Ideally, there should have been one big massive contract for 26 Rafale marine (i.e. naval variants) plus whatever number (80... 100... 126) air force variants with full ISE and whatever else IAF wanted.One thing is certain without a doubt, the Rafale is clear frontrunner in the MRFA contest (in whatever numbers the MRFA finally arrives at).
The trouble is, the neta-babu-mantri complex (NBMC) in New Delhi think they are being so smart / cunning / chankian in dragging these negotiations out for decades, but in the end they wind up with either nothing or with whatever they could have had anyway, but a decade or two earlier. This is exactly how the country goes without a new artillery piece for 30 years, or a new air force plane for 15 years (while the air force squadron strength depletes dangerously). I think the NBMC are that deluded that they think that military equipment is irrelevant. (I give you AKA as an example, and he was not an aberration, he was typical. I think whatever progress we have made in the last 11 years is due to NaMo personally, not the BJP in general).