Operation Sindoor - Bharat Strikes Back: Jai Hind!

[sidp]

From yesterday's media coverage everyone thought Pakistan would surrender today. Since that didn't happen our frustration is coming out as rona dhona. Hopefully we will see action today.

[Dilbu]

TSP is not giving out signals of someone who is going off-ramp, yet. That much is certain.

[Trikaal]

Looks like we are desperately trying to hand Pakistan an offramp, which they are refusing to take. The entire initiative seems to be sitting with them. They can choose to prolong or end this conflict at the time of their choosing. Hope I am wrong and govt has something up their sleeve. These animals take restraint and maturity as weakness. The only language they understand is one of fear.

hain? what offramp..dont see any Paki liking this "offramp". This is a skydive without parachute for Madrassa chapp Munir...Echandee is gone. . What is Paki claim to Victory here for domestic audience?

Offramp is that they can say anything to their domestic audience to justify cessation of conflict. Since we are not putting any more humiliation in public domain, they can cook up whatever story and back down.

[williams]

If you are not happy with how the Govt is conducting the war, vote for someone else next time.

If you don’t have a vote, then face it, no matter how avid an India supporter you are, you are a guest.

BRF is not a therapy group for frustrated armchair strategists and keyboard warriors.

A_Gupta - I don't know about others but I am very happy with this sarkar and I have not just one vote but a lot of votes that too from a southern state for this Sarkar. There is no way Pappu and his coterie of old chamchas can even fathom what this Sarkar is doing to the enemies of Bharat - IMHO.

No matter where I live or what I do, I am a son of Bharat and Bharat matha has never treated me as a guest, but as a king!! This is true for all the sons and daughters of Bharat. They just don't realize it.

BRF is the best place to provide deep knowledge on a lot of things, a lot of friends with good intention and a lot of entertainment for more than 2 decades now. So I am not frustrated one bit.

[drnayar]

https://x.com/mountain_rats/status/1920837949748306125
Especially for some gyaanis out here ! Who keep wanting proofs of everything
[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gqgv4IkXcAA ... name=small[/img

you hit the nail on the head.. BRF has a certain reach .. and we have a certain job to do., we can do credible discussion and inference from open source information , no point in holding back to give what's due.

Due to operational policy and secrecy there will be enough information but no proof straightaway.

Pakis are doing their information warfare out of thin air [ see what a couple of rabid pakis at reuters desk are doing?] .. we can do better

[S_Madhukar]

The whole TV fakery yesterday was trailer for the phaujis to hold their fire else what could happen. May be they have too many Toorki maal and Lizard droppings that they want to test after 7 pm….
Gives enough time for begum, doosri and teesri with small mujahids to escape to London, after all PIA flights are less and aviation fuel is expensive. They would have preferred F16 over PIA Boeings but not much seating available and they can both fail equally and Bharati AF too close for comfort so the goings are slow. Hence they want to keep the fires burning. After that the not so Sharif Bros will do the surrender business

[putnanja]

Some SM handles are reporting blast heard in Jammu and total blackout there

[Cyrano]

NaMo ji in his speech in Bihar said the 1. perpetrators, 2. their supporters and 3. backers will be brought to justice.

With the action on 7th May and until now, only category 1 has been destroyed. But even that is a renewable element. In a few weeks or months we will have a new bunch of jihadis ready in new places, perhaps better camouflaged this time and ready to continue the thousand cuts.

Category 2. The supporters are the entire Paki awam brainwashed since infancy to hate kaafir Hindus and hindustan.

Category 3. The backers are Pak army directly and it's backers which includes the CIA and therefore the US, UK, a bunch of other western countries sporadically, China as well for its own but different ends than the west, Turkey and a bunch of west asian petro rich countries like Qatar.

But all these level 2 backers can't do much if Bharat breaks the back of Pak army.

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Bharat to achieve precisely that with several factors internal and external aligned. I can only hope and pray that the govt will remain steadfast and go all the way else they will only be kicking the can down the road for our children to suffer once again and keep bleeding for our in(sufficient) action.

[Dilbu]

Fresh drone attack in Samba sector. Wah ji..

[williams]

Pakis don't have an off ramp until India spells out the condition to go back to some level on IWT. Water is their life line and we are holding that as hostage. So lets go back to the goals of India should should have when all these things started.

1. We need to make TSP stop sponsoring terror in Indian soil - not met.
2. We need the Jihadis feel the pain of conducting terror attacks - Exceeded expectation
3. We need TSP Uniformed Jihandis also feel the pain of conducting terror attacks - not met
4. We need to restore deterrence of messing with Bharat - partially met IMO.

Questions is can 1 and 2 be achieved through IWT - I will bet on it. Not because Paki Jihadis will suddenly change their tune. It is a slow poison that will dismember Pakistan as a state.

[Shivaji]

Possible trajectories from here:
1. De-escalation from here engineered by Saudis or someone else with status quo - will not be agreed by GOI as that will be political suicide. You take country to the brink of war with mock drills, black-outs, all-part meet etc and then agree to status quo.

2. Abject surrender by Pakis - not going to happen as no material or H&D loss at all so far to Pakis

3. Visible punishment to Pakis till the time of Nuclear threshold - this would not be preferable.

4. Visible punishment in escalation - de-escalation cycle well before Nuclear threshold when Pakis realise that this GOI is ready to go all the way to threshold

We are probably planning for trajectory 3 but hopefully trajectory 4 suffices with Saed / Masood hallaled or handed over.

[Dilbu]

So there is no off-ramp happening as of now. Let us park that discussion.

[williams]

3. Visible punishment to Pakis till the time of Nuclear threshold - this would not be preferable.

The way Pakis are conducting with their fizzled equipment, we have the option of making Pakis nuke nude. I need to go back to reading some of the discussion we used to have about that in BR.

[putnanja]

I believe India did respond pretty well to yesterday night's provocation(some of the claims yesterday might be true if not all), but held back in press conference to give Pakis an off-ramp. However, I think pakis won't back off till they have some sort of hit against India they can publicly show off. Last time, shooting down our Mig-21 and capturing our pilot Wg Cmdr Abhinandan was the off-ramp. Never mind that they still were left blackfaced by the attack within their borders (visible) or loss of F16(covered up) and that they were forced to release our pilot unharmed (under threat of more destruction).

For pakis, it is always about losing face. They have lost face as they don't have any public claim of revenge against India. They will keep pushing and probing till they get that. They are not smart enough to grab an off-ramp when offered.

[bkswarti]

Another round of drone attack in Jammu. Pakistanis won’t learn. They won’t de escalate. We need to teach them to de escalate like we did in ‘71.

Laaton ke bhut, baaton se nahi maante

[williams]

Sorry IMHO giving off ramp to TSP is another level of political suicide for Modi sarkar. Why would we give that until we know they stopped conducting proxy war through Islamic terrorists? It makes sense for the the Chinese but not for the Pakis. Last time what we did was a mistake. We thought we can avoid another terrorist attack in India.

[Shivaji]

3. Visible punishment to Pakis till the time of Nuclear threshold - this would not be preferable.

The way Pakis are conducting with their fizzled equipment, we have the option of making Pakis nuke nude. I need to go back to reading some of the discussion we used to have about that in BR.

Whatever the state of their equipment, making them nuke nude and splitting in 4 is not the priority of this GOI at the moment else off-ramp discussion would not have come up. With 3rd largest economy target within reach and this opportunity of integrating with global supply chain following disruption, GOI's objectives are limited to peace of few years.

Apologies for analogy from history. I always wondered why Bajirao did not finish Nizam despite defeating him multiple times. Because his priority was Delhi....

[drnayar]

interesting to see how effective the S400 battalions have been in holding off the entire paki AF at stand off distances and forcing them to launch their PL15s that run out of fuel by the time they reach the border !!

the calculus could change.. but the S400 has proved its worth !

[Dilbu]

There is nothing left to play nice for. We should now switch gears and stop treating this as a special operation Sindoor to be concluded in a few days after a brief exchange of fire with TSP. The snake is out in the grass, let us put it out of action.

[prashantsharma]

Isnt it time to rid ourselves of this “proportionate” BS and move to disproportionate. They arent getting the message.

[williams]

The way Pakis are conducting with their fizzled equipment, we have the option of making Pakis nuke nude. I need to go back to reading some of the discussion we used to have about that in BR.

Whatever the state of their equipment, making them nuke nude and splitting in 4 is not the priority of this GOI at the moment else off-ramp discussion would not have come up. With 3rd largest economy target within reach and this opportunity of integrating with global supply chain following disruption, GOI's objectives are limited to peace of few years.

Apologies for analogy from history. I always wondered why Bajirao did not finish Nizam despite defeating him multiple times. Because his priority was Delhi....

Interesting thought... But was there any official statement from any GoI representative about giving an off ramp to the Pakis.. ie restore IWT to its old status and go back to diplomatic thaw?

[konaseema]

As long as Pakistan exists in its current form, until its economy goes into an irrecoverable spin, its armed forces defanged and more importantly when its general public (if ever) stops thinking Hindus are their enemy, there is NO WAY either this Indian government or any other government of India can for sure say that there will be NO more Islamic terror attacks on Indians or on Indian soil. Will this opportunity that has been presented to us be used to facilitate the beginning of the end of the above 4 aspects is to be seen.

[Rakesh]

Isnt it time to rid ourselves of this “proportionate” BS and move to disproportionate. They arent getting the message.

The Paks will move to disproportionate.

[Prem Kumar]

Our thinking for off-ramp seems to be this

1) We have avenged Pahalgam - killed 4X the number of people on the opposite side (terrorists alone) + a few dozen uniformed jihadis
2) We robustly defended counter-attacks without breaking a sweat
3) We have a long term plan to dismember Pakistan: IWT, FATF, Balochistan etc

We have achieved our mission objectives. There is no point in prolonging this incremental-escalations that will only play into China's hands

We can wear Pakistan out over a month, but their 3.5 fathers (maybe 1.5 now) will continue to support them financially

Agree with Williams that we didn't do one thing that Modi promised: kill their backers. But if we think of Op Sindoor as a 5 year Paki dismemberment plan, then that will also happen. It just won't happen in a hot-war now

[Shivaji]

Interesting thought... But was there any official statement from any GoI representative about giving an off ramp to the Pakis.. ie restore IWT to its old status and go back to diplomatic thaw?

Our emphasis on non-escalatory proportionate response was interpreted by Dhume and he used the term "off-ramp" first.

IWT is done and dusted in my opinion. GOI has already started on Contract awards for Chenab river water use. There is no going back. Today WB Chairman also washed his hands off any mediation.

[Deans]

I feel things are not yet over...
1) IPL has been suspended... If things are wrapping up, this will not be required... On contrary, IPL suspension would mean things may escalate...
2) There was hightened security at all airports, temples and other public places since yesterday evening... Airlines sent messages asking passengers to come 3 hours early... Saw news on Telugu channels about extra checkings at Titupati & Srisailam temples... Even railways put up special ads to be careful about unidentified packages... I feel there is some credible intelligence input about another terrorist attack...
3) In Delhi also, they're installing Air Raid Sirens...

The IPL could have been played in grounds in the South and Kolkata, but the optics of promoting entertainment when we are at war, would
be terrible.
It's better to cancel the Asia cup to be held in India, where ALL the revenue goes to the other teams. Starve Pak and B'desh of revenue and
hold the rest of the IPL then.

[Cyrano]

Apologies for analogy from history. I always wondered why Bajirao did not finish Nizam despite defeating him multiple times. Because his priority was Delhi....

And people of Telangana paid the price for generations, suffering unspeakable atrocities in the hands of Razakars included. And still do in some ways, ask Raja Singh of BJP.

It must be a uniquely Hindu trait to have a snake under the boot and then let it go. Only to be bitten later.

[Neela]

Isnt it time to rid ourselves of this “proportionate” BS and move to disproportionate. They arent getting the message.

The Paks will move to disproportionate.

93000 evidences I can show that Pakis will not be disproportionate Sirji. IYKWIM

[williams]

interesting to see how effective the S400 battalions have been in holding off the entire paki AF at stand off distances and forcing them to launch their PL15s that run out of fuel by the time they reach the border !!

the calculus could change.. but the S400 has proved its worth !

100% We need to thank the Ruskies for delivering it even though they had a long attrition war on their hand. Also don't forget our own Akash batteries, Radars, Jugaad tech and the integrated systems worked perfectly too.

[Deans]

Possible trajectories from here:
1. De-escalation from here engineered by Saudis or someone else with status quo - will not be agreed by GOI as that will be political suicide. You take country to the brink of war with mock drills, black-outs, all-part meet etc and then agree to status quo.

2. Abject surrender by Pakis - not going to happen as no material or H&D loss at all so far to Pakis

3. Visible punishment to Pakis till the time of Nuclear threshold - this would not be preferable.

4. Visible punishment in escalation - de-escalation cycle well before Nuclear threshold when Pakis realise that this GOI is ready to go all the way to threshold

We are probably planning for trajectory 3 but hopefully trajectory 4 suffices with Saed / Masood hallaled or handed over.

My sense is, we agree to an off ramp, provided Pak behaves itself.
However, IWT work will continue, as will squeezing Pak economically.
If Pak fires as much as a bullet, or sends a drone across the LOC, we escalate. Firing across will invite a heavy artillery barrage.
Sending 1 drone will get them 10 drones or missiles into Pak.
Keep our troops mobilized. Unlike Op Parakram, they will have the mandate to hit out at the slightest provocation and unlike Parakram
Pakistan's counter deployment will bleed them financially.

[Shivaji]

And people of Telangana paid the price for generations, suffering unspeakable atrocities in the hands of Razakars included. And still do in some ways, ask Raja Singh of BJP.
It must be a uniquely Hindu trait to have a snake under the boot and then let it go. Only to be bitten later.

Agreed sir. Being from Marathwada region, I have heard stories from Grandparents of Nizam rule.

Actually we getting bogged down with Pakis is what West and China would want. This Pakistan problem will keep on popping every few years. Modi is developing new template like frog in boiling water. If frog (Pakis here) realizes that and mends ways, that would be great else we keep on increasing heat every step.

[bkswarti]

This is the third or fourth wave of drone attacks. I know Pakistan is pretty stupid but could there be a sinister reason behind this?

Is there perhaps a bigger attack planned by them? Are they they assessing our SAM sites? Are they just filling the skies up so it may lead to a friendly fire by our AD on our planes if we counter attack? Or are they just trying(and failing) to instill fear into the people because they keep sending the drones to the 3 or 4 cities over and over again all night.

[AdityaM]

At the very start, Modi had given a free hand to the 3 forces.
2 took it, where is the Navy?

All media channels are lazy, and just quote from twitter without any actual good quality reporters sniffing for news. Once fake news started, they just copy-pasted, not to be left out of the breaking news madness. No one set them up with false news. They happily fell for it.

IAF did very well on the air defence, and ability to sneak in drones. However that pales in comparison to pics that emerged of our own frontline plane losses. Those pics were from Indian accounts. There is no conclusive technical put down of them as fake, except our own bias; not even official denial. ( personal opinion. Please don't castigate )

The balance sheet of action/reaction is not in favour of calling it a revenge completed for Pahalgam. Deescalation now would be serious climb down.

[williams]

Keep our troops mobilized. Unlike Op Parakram, they will have the mandate to hit out at the slightest provocation and unlike Parakram
Pakistan's counter deployment will bleed them financially.

Yeah that could work.. But I think GoI has something else. I think they are working towards a Paki end game. We cannot normalize Paki behavior of sending drones and shelling civilian homes. That will be too dangerous for our citizens in the border areas.

[Aditya_V]

It started again, I Hope we are accumulating Drones and starting to Let fly at Paki miltary targets, if we dont do it I see Pakis doing well overtime. F*** all this De escalation talk

[williams]

Perhaps the fake news on Karachi attack was a warning?? Given the firepower we have in Arabian sea, would it not end Pakistan economy if we destroy Pakistani ports?

[Shivaji]

My sense is, we agree to an off ramp, provided Pak behaves itself.
However, IWT work will continue, as will squeezing Pak economically.
If Pak fires as much as a bullet, or sends a drone across the LOC, we escalate. Firing across will invite a heavy artillery barrage.
Sending 1 drone will get them 10 drones or missiles into Pak.
Keep our troops mobilized. Unlike Op Parakram, they will have the mandate to hit out at the slightest provocation and unlike Parakram
Pakistan's counter deployment will bleed them financially.

Off-ramp now will be political suicide as Pak behaving itself with so little punishment is unlikely. It has to be either visible punishment else an attack around 2029 will give opposition a big issue that Modi orchestrates attack around election. Even after visible punishment, Pakis do mischief, people know Paki traits from history.

Agree with new template and IWT. There shall no going back.

[Aditya_V]

However that pales in comparison to pics that emerged of our own frontline plane losses. Those pics were from Indian accounts. There is no conclusive technical put down of them as fake, except our own bias; not even official denial. ( personal opinion. Please don't castigate )

Not one of those pics has a plane debris, in fact there were Tv reporters with cameras, Don't you think DGISPR would have put Radar pics, used many of those pics even if there was 5% chance.

Plus there were so many obvious fakes that even anti Indian accounts dropped them.

Of course you are free to believe Pakis shot 50 rafales and call the MEA /Indian Defense Spokespersons liars and Anti India Twitter accounts as absolute truth but the nation of Pakistan would have gone into celebration if actually 5 planes were shot down- even they know it is false.

[A_Gupta]

Gen Shankar pulled up a Chinese think tank article. If it represents CCP thinking, then they have realized that Pakistan is no longer a weapon against India, rather their asset which they have to protect from being overwhelmed by India. That is, now increase on liability side and decrease on the asset side of the ledger.

If that is the case, Pakistan bravado is not relevant. China will try to keep Pakistan from getting itself into danger by provoking India.

Of course, one article does not prove a shift in Chinese strategic thinking. But the door to that idea has been opened.

[williams]

Yeah Chinese are not providing the level of support to Pakis is another surprise. I don't know there is wheels inside wheels here.