Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

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How many of you had to defecate in open?

Poll ended at 22 Aug 2017 23:00

Never. I never had to defecate in open.
19
54%
Sometimes (like when visiting village or when guests had to come and no avl. toilets)
12
34%
Most of the times
0
No votes
Yuck! I held on tight.
2
6%
Will you ever do it? (like when visiting village or when guests come and no avl. toilets)
2
6%
 
Total votes: 35

disha
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by disha »

Reviving this thread back. Since Monsoon is coming, there will be spike of monsoon (water borne) related diseases. Typhoid, cholera, dysentry and e.coli infections being common. This is a significant burden of disease, particularly in the dense urban areas.

Want to start off with this paper:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6482782/
Impact assessment of India's Swachh Bharat Mission – Clean India Campaign on acute diarrheal disease outbreaks: Yes, there is a positive change
Methods:
Weekly ADD outbreaks data from national-level Integrated Disease Surveillance Program between 2010 and 2018 were used for trend analysis along with the number of toilets constructed in rural areas under SBM from the year 2014.

Results:
ADD outbreaks were analyzed from 2010 to 2018. The number of ADD outbreaks per year during the past 2 years (i.e., 2017 and 2018) of SBM regime was lesser than in any year during the investigation period. Seasonal variations during the months of May, June, July, and August account for 55%–60% of ADD outbreaks in any of the years; but for 2018, the total outbreaks were 46%, which is significantly lower than that of regular range of outbreaks in the peak season.
My humble request: For anyone quoting about failure of SBM etc in news without basis, please quote above statistics. And also find such scholarly articles and post it here.
disha
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by disha »

Some more news items

https://indianexpress.com/article/citie ... a-8594237/
Mosques across Delhi join initiative for a clean Yamuna
Around a dozen prominent mosques across Delhi, including Jama Masjid, Dargah Hazrat Nizamuddin Shahi Kalan Masjid and Mufti Nisar Badwali Masjid, Daryaganj, were part of the initiative. More are expected to follow suit over the coming days, according to sources.
And this is major news:

https://swarajyamag.com/infrastructure/ ... bage-dumps
Many States are taking steps to beautify the urban areas which eventually lead to sustainable development and a healthier, greener future. It has also created avenues for waste reduction, recycling, and reusing, helping in the sustainable use of resources.

Bhopal’s exemplary dumpsite remediation is an inspirational example of transformation of urban spaces.

Flagged off by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the Vande Bharat Express travelling between Bhopal to Delhi zooms past a dumpsite-turned-green zone in Bhopal. It was beautified after 37 acres of land was reclaimed.
Haresh
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Haresh »

‘It’s impossible to breathe’: Delhi’s rubbish dumps drive sky-high methane emissions

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... -emissions

Revealed: the 1,200 big methane leaks from waste dumps trashing the planet

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... the-planet
Cyrano
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

It's not just visible litter.

Was in Vishakhapatnam traveling towards Rishikonda. The whole route and areas smelled very foul. Later I found out its due to open sewer canals though there was no overflow.

Was going to Hyderabad airport last week at 3 AM. Very foul chemical smells that was hanging like a curtain for many kms. Wasn't the first time I noticed this, I've been told these are due to effluents released by Pharma industries.
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by tandav »

The litter problem is fundamentally solved if door to door collection of garbage is instituted. Simple as it may sound this is not done in most Slum areas of Urban India (40% of Mumbai lives in Slums) and most Rural areas.
ernest
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by ernest »

tandav wrote: 15 Oct 2024 08:39 The litter problem is fundamentally solved if door to door collection of garbage is instituted. Simple as it may sound this is not done in most Slum areas of Urban India (40% of Mumbai lives in Slums) and most Rural areas.
even if it is instituted, people are not willing to change their habits. It will be useless without accompanying fines, which govts are afraid to impose, let they lose votes.
I believe a small fine (like 5-10 Rs per violation), but really enforced on ground will go a long way
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

Garbage collection, treatment and recycling is a huge creator of employment in a country like India.

When you fly over G7 nations or see in google maps so many waste water treatment plants are visible. Dunno where Bharat is on that.

Both very important to improve quality of life and health.
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by tandav »

Cyrano wrote: 04 Mar 2024 12:22 It's not just visible litter.

Was in Vishakhapatnam traveling towards Rishikonda. The whole route and areas smelled very foul. Later I found out its due to open sewer canals though there was no overflow.

Was going to Hyderabad airport last week at 3 AM. Very foul chemical smells that was hanging like a curtain for many kms. Wasn't the first time I noticed this, I've been told these are due to effluents released by Pharma industries.
Jeedimetla Industrial Area in Hyderabad has been a hub of Indian Pharma industry for quite a while. Pharma industrial Effluents are pretty noxious
tandav
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by tandav »

Cyrano wrote: 17 Oct 2024 15:11 Garbage collection, treatment and recycling is a huge creator of employment in a country like India.

When you fly over G7 nations or see in google maps so many waste water treatment plants are visible. Dunno where Bharat is on that.

Both very important to improve quality of life and health.
They are there in India and more are getting built.

India generates around 80000 MLD of waste water and has an current install base of 30000MLD of STP with a capacity utilization of 50%. About 15000 MLD of sewage goes through an STP and by my estimate only 30% meets the NGT standards of COD<50, BOD<10, TSS< 10 as promulgated by NGT / CPHEEO. So as of today 5000 MLD of sewage actually meets the desired treatment norms.
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

Tandav Ji,
Thank you for sharing this data. So lots to do if only 5000/80000 is being properly treated.

It's a shame to see Yamuna full of froth year after year.

Regarding air quality aren't there similar norms to treat industrial effluents? Sometimes we think NGT etc are anti development but if such development comes at the cost of health, ecosystems and quality of life then what would we have really achieved?!
Hope the govt gives more emphasis to Swacch Bharat (which we seem to have forgotten a bit in recent times) and builds institutions and systems across Bharat.
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Haresh »

I just cannot understand why the capital city is such a disaster.

NYT writer is absolutely right: Delhi is literally a shithole; but so is all of India

https://www.firstpost.com/india/nyt-wri ... 72904.html
Haresh
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Haresh »

The Ugly Indian website is quite interesting.
https://theuglyindian.com/

There just doesn't seem to be any systems in place.
When I travel around Punjab on my visits, and it is probably true in other place, I have noticed that there are food places everywhere, roadside dhabas as well as fancier places.
Is there a system in place to collect the waste cooking oil to be blended with diesel ?
It just seems to be dumped.
What about the food waste, it can be composted and the gas can provide clean energy, this also seems to be just dumped ?
Sewage can also be composted into fertiliser, there just seem to be no systems in place.
Cyrano
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

From a telegram channel
India's first Integrated Waste Management City to be set up in UP's Gorakhpur by September 2025

Will process various waste types, create jobs
Also a learning centre for waste management
Long awaited and much needed!
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Hriday »

I know that plants and trees gives oxygen and reduce temperature by giving shade. But didn't know that they are great filters for air pollutants. One video link below.
https://x.com/thebetterindia/status/185 ... aQcxg&s=19
As Delhi chokes on 400+ AQI, this green home has an AQI of just 15!
Too good to believe! Any idea if it is possible ?

If you type "Does trees improve air quality index" in WhatsApp Meta AI, it gives a long answer. Some excerpts below.
Yes, trees significantly improve air quality index (AQI) by:

1. *Removing pollutants*: Trees absorb gases like ozone (O3), nitrogen dioxide (NO2), and particulate matter (PM) through stomata on leaves.
2. *Producing oxygen*: Trees release oxygen (O2) during photosynthesis, increasing air quality.
3. *Filtering particulates*: Tree leaves and branches capture particulate matter (PM), reducing airborne pollutants.
4. *Reducing temperature*: Tree shading and evapotranspiration lower urban heat island effects, decreasing ground-level ozone formation.
5. *Supporting beneficial microbes*: Tree roots and soil harbor beneficial microorganisms that break down pollutants.

Key pollutants removed by trees:

1. Particulate Matter (PM2.5, PM10)
2. Ozone (O3)
3. Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2)
4. Carbon Monoxide (CO)
5. Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)
6. Sulfur Dioxide (SO2)


Quantifying the impact:

1. A single mature tree can remove up to 10 kg (22 lbs) of pollutants per year.
2. Urban forests can reduce AQI by 10-20%.
3. Trees can mitigate up to 50% of urban air pollution.

Sources:

1. US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
2. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS)
3. The Tree Council
4. Arbor Day Foundation
Haresh
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Haresh »

Hriday wrote: 09 Dec 2024 12:55 I know that plants and trees gives oxygen and reduce temperature by giving shade. But didn't know that they are great filters for air pollutants. One video link below.
https://x.com/thebetterindia/status/185 ... aQcxg&s=19
As Delhi chokes on 400+ AQI, this green home has an AQI of just 15!
Too good to believe! Any idea if it is possible ?

If you type "Does trees improve air quality index" in WhatsApp Meta AI, it gives a long answer. Some excerpts below.
Yes, trees significantly improve air quality index (AQI) by:

1. *Removing pollutants*: Trees absorb gases like ozone (O3), nitrogen dioxide (NO2), and particulate matter (PM) through stomata on leaves.
2. *Producing oxygen*: Trees release oxygen (O2) during photosynthesis, increasing air quality.
3. *Filtering particulates*: Tree leaves and branches capture particulate matter (PM), reducing airborne pollutants.
4. *Reducing temperature*: Tree shading and evapotranspiration lower urban heat island effects, decreasing ground-level ozone formation.
5. *Supporting beneficial microbes*: Tree roots and soil harbor beneficial microorganisms that break down pollutants.

Key pollutants removed by trees:

1. Particulate Matter (PM2.5, PM10)
2. Ozone (O3)
3. Nitrogen Dioxide (NO2)
4. Carbon Monoxide (CO)
5. Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs)
6. Sulfur Dioxide (SO2)


Quantifying the impact:

1. A single mature tree can remove up to 10 kg (22 lbs) of pollutants per year.
2. Urban forests can reduce AQI by 10-20%.
3. Trees can mitigate up to 50% of urban air pollution.

Sources:

1. US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
2. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences (NIEHS)
3. The Tree Council
4. Arbor Day Foundation
May be they need to explore Green Walls, they are being increasingly planted in Europe and do help mitigate pollution.

https://theconstructor.org/building/gre ... res/16625/

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=green+walls+o ... 2-1&ia=web
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

A bit of wishful thinking that's more suited for WhatsApp University.

Plants and trees cannot absorb pollutants through air, like they definitely do from the soil along with absorbed water, and other nutrients.

The only thing I know of that plants absorb directly from air is CO2, which is not a pollutant in the present concentration levels in the atmosphere at 0.04% or about 400 parts per million. There is enough research that shows the earth had periods of much higher CO2 concentration - 2x to 3x and even more without the oceans boiling away to heavens.

What plants do is act as physical barriers and filters against dust particles and pollutants suspended in air. Which is good enough reason to increase green cover and plants in urban areas.
Amber G.
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Amber G. »

Cyrano wrote: 01 Jan 2025 21:11 A bit of wishful thinking that's more suited for WhatsApp University.

Plants and trees cannot absorb pollutants through air, like they definitely do from the soil along with absorbed water, and other nutrients. (MetaAI in whatsapp is not wishful tinking )

The only thing I know of that plants absorb directly from air is CO2, which is not a pollutant in the present concentration levels in the atmosphere at 0.04% or about 400 parts per million. There is enough research that shows the earth had periods of much higher CO2 concentration - 2x to 3x and even more without the oceans boiling away to heavens.

What plants do is act as physical barriers and filters against dust particles and pollutants suspended in air. Which is good enough reason to increase green cover and plants in urban areas.
While the statement mentions that plants absorb CO2 from the air is correct, it overlooks the fact that plants can also absorb other substances, including pollutants, directly from the air.
Eg:

Ozone (O3): Plants can absorb ozone through their stomata, which can damage their tissues and impair growth.
Nitrogen dioxide (NO2): Plants can absorb NO2, which can contribute to the formation of nitric acid and other harmful compounds within the plant.
Volatile organic compounds (VOCs): Some plants can absorb VOCs, such as benzene and toluene, which are emitted by industrial activities and vehicles.
Heavy metals: While primarily absorbed through the soil, some plants can also absorb heavy metals like lead and mercury through their leaves.

Regarding CO2 concentrations, the statement is accurate in stating that the Earth has experienced higher CO2 levels in the past. and oceans did not boil away to heavens.However, it's essential to note that:

Past CO2 concentrations were often accompanied by higher temperatures, which had significant impacts on the Earth's climate and ecosystems.



One period that saw exceptionally high CO2 levels was around 3 to 5 million years ago, during the Mid-Pliocene Warm Period. At that time, CO2 concentrations reached approximately 400 parts per million (ppm), similar to today's levels - it had profound effects on the planet. Global average surface temperatures were about 2 to 3.5°C higher than in the pre-industrial period, and sea levels were at least 16 feet higher than they were in 1900 The warmer climate also led to significant changes in ocean temperature, circulation, chemistry, and biology.

Around 50 million years ago, CO2 levels may have reached as high as 1000 ppm. During this period, the Earth's average temperature was ~ 10°C warmer than today.

The current rate of CO2 increase is unprecedented in Earth's history, and it's primarily driven by human activities like fossil fuel burning and deforestation.

The statement's tone downplays the significance of current CO2 concentrations, which are causing concern among scientists.

Added later: Simple google search gives these:

(Reputable sources/links for plant absorption of pollutants:

Plant-based remediation of air pollution: A review

If interested do a google for the links/papers for below:
Plant antioxidant enzymes activated by endophytes help plants withstand oxidants triggered by pollutants .
Foliar surfaces of plants can absorb airborne pollutants, reducing their concentrations in indoor environments
Plant leaves can adsorb or absorb air pollutants, and habituated microbes on leaf surfaces (endophytes) can transform pollutants into less or nontoxic molecules .
Plants produce oxygen, which helps maintain a healthy atmospheric balance and improves air quality in densely populated urban areas .
Plant species like M. indica, Alstonia scholaris, and F. benghalensis have been reported to have high air-purifying potentia
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

Thanks Amber ji,
Of course plants can absorb other gases and particles to some extent through their stomata as we learn in high school. While CO2 is necessary for photosynthesis the others like O3, NO2, VOCs absorbed from _air_ (not sure if any metals can be absorbed from air) AFAIK aren't inputs to any other metabolic pathways. (Perhaps O3 passes off as O2+O in some metabolic processes ?) Therefore I'm not sure how plants can "fix" them and thus subtract them from air and thus "purify" air. You'll agree that absorption from soil in the form of dissolved elements in water is a different process, and thats not what we are talking about here.

I'll read the papers you cited to learn more.
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

^^^From the link provided by Amber ji above: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... n-snippets
Tremendous efforts have been made to analyze adsorption capabilities for different pollutants (e.g., formaldehyde, benzene, xylene, and ozone) by different plants in closed environments (Song, 2010; Zhang et al., 2014; Saxena and Sonwani, 2020). Enormous efforts have been put to address the effects of plants on air pollutant mixtures (Darrall, 2010; Lomnicki et al., 2014; Papazian and Blande, 2020) and the efficiency of plants for the adsorption of air pollutants in both indoor and outdoor environments (Wang and Zhang, 2011; Agarwal et al., 2018; Bhargava et al., 2020; Khare and Shukla, 2020). Plants for phytoremediation can be classified in terms of their effectiveness in indoor or outdoor conditions. Relevant indoor plants are generally small shrubs and herbs that fit into indoor environments. The adsorption capacity of these plants towards pollutants can be assessed through experiments in airtight and fixed-volume containers. Relevant outdoor plants, on the other hand, are mostly tall trees or large shrubs of which purification effects are generally evaluated directly by the adsorption capacity of their leaves or roots (!) towards the pollutants of interest.
The references cited in this review have been found from searches with a list of keywords such as “plant”, “environment”, “atmosphere”, TVOCs, and “haze”, and “benzene”. Most of these articles have been collected from the Web of Science (https://www.webofscience. com/wos/alldb/basic-search), while others taken from Baidu academic (https://xueshu.baidu.com/) and CNKI (https://www.cnki.net/).
I dont have access to the full study, I'm not in academia. But from what I read so far on the link provided, the bolded part in green is really what is of interest. Unless there is some clear experimental data that quantifies said absorption for specific plant species, the level of this research hasn't progressed much beyond what my grandmother taught us when we were kids. Doesnt mean its wrong, but since we are all somewhat more science oriented here than my grandma, we are used to looking for data and empirical experimental evidence behind true sounding common sense statements as well.

If you or someone who as access can check and post a few examples like:
Plant species X Y demonstrated to be absorbing ZZ ml of formaldehyde at aa% concentration in ambient air in experiment conducted by... at ... institute that will be greatly useful.
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

One period that saw exceptionally high CO2 levels was around 3 to 5 million years ago, during the Mid-Pliocene Warm Period. At that time, CO2 concentrations reached approximately 400 parts per million (ppm), similar to today's levels - it had profound effects on the planet. Global average surface temperatures were about 2 to 3.5°C higher than in the pre-industrial period, and sea levels were at least 16 feet higher than they were in 1900 The warmer climate also led to significant changes in ocean temperature, circulation, chemistry, and biology.

Around 50 million years ago, CO2 levels may have reached as high as 1000 ppm. During this period, the Earth's average temperature was ~ 10°C warmer than today.

The current rate of CO2 increase is unprecedented in Earth's history, and it's primarily driven by human activities like fossil fuel burning and deforestation.
This is the standard "anthropogenic activity since around 1850 is releasing large amounts of CO2 which is the prime causal factor behind observed increase in global average temperature (anomaly?) which is majorly/solely responsible for extreme weather conditions and will lead to further disastrous weather conditions globally" highly prevalent and popular theory in contemporary times. If I were uncharitable I'd say narrative instead of theory.

I have several problems accepting the above, OT for this thread, there is another one on this forum for that.
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Amber G. »

Cyrano wrote: 09 Jan 2025 19:28 Thanks Amber ji,
<snip...>

I'll read the papers you cited to learn more.
Thanks!
...
This is the standard "anthropogenic activity since around 1850 is releasing large amounts of CO2 which is the prime causal factor behind observed increase in global average temperature (anomaly?) which is majorly/solely responsible for extreme weather conditions and will lead to further disastrous weather conditions globally" highly prevalent and popular theory in contemporary times. If I were uncharitable I'd say narrative instead of theory.

I have several problems accepting the above, OT for this thread, there is another one on this forum for that.
OT, perhaps. and understand your skepticism, but the greenhouse effect and its link to rising CO2 levels have an overwhelming scientific basis, backed by decades of data and research. It's not a 'narrative,' but a well-established theory grounded in evidence

Meanwhile, folks may like to read This kind of scientific studies too .. ... in the other dhaga..
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by Cyrano »

Heart breaking, gut wrenching

tandav
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Re: Clean India - Places, Options, Initiatives & Results

Post by tandav »

East Asian Nations have a very good street cleaning and garbage collection mechanism. At end of business hours around 11pm the trash is put out on sidewalks and collected by well equipped uniformed workers with overalls, powered carts, jet washers and other cleaning paraphernalia.
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