Operation Sindoor - Bharat Strikes Back: Jai Hind!

[sanjaykumar]

Indians still seek validation from the media?

Paki awam is not quite that stupid, the evidence is before them.

There will be another round. But how much power differential will have India accumulated by then?

The inbreds are not that stupid.

[manish singh]

While ye dil maange more, at the very least we have crossed the rubicon in terms of minimal Indian response to a terrorist attack. Retaliation will no longer be limited to terrorist camps in PoJK, but will include terrorist camps in Pakistan proper no matter how deep across the border. A new precedence has been set.

[A_Gupta]

> There will be another round. But how much power differential will have India accumulated by then?

Exactly. Depends on strong leadership, though.

[rkirankr]

One ex IAF officer in Suvarna news kannada says ,yes it is a surrender by Pakistan but we also faced some losses and hence time to recoup

[S_Madhukar]

Why does our RM and FM not answer media at least in this case. It’s a miracle our border citizens blindly trust the govt .

This time drones came far back inside but this Soviet style communication method with DD legacy is crap. JS can be on DD and explain things if not on private channels but this alternate comms style is jarring.

Something is seriously wrong with comms strategy and this constant reliance on experts and sources is not the way to address communication gaps.

[SPattath]

There are reports of shelling at LOC now.

[Shaktimaan]

Reports coming in of artillery fire from Paki side in Akhnoor. Are they stupid enough to break the ceasefire tonight?

[Cyrano]

Any future terror act will be treated as an act of war.

In last 48 hours we have :

- Destroyed terror bases
- Destroyed 11 air bases
- Destroyed Air defence system
- Could hit terror camps as Deep as Lahore
- Killed more than 100 terrorist.

Abeyance of IWT (Indus Water Treaty) remains in force

This pause is a mutual understanding & not a ceasefire agreement

In the next 48 weeks Pakis will
- recreate new terror bases
- rebuild 11 air bases with imf funds
- install improved Air defence system
- will better disperse terror camps
- will spawn more than 1000 terrorists.

Trump ney hamara chutiya kaata just to brag about how he stopped the world destructing due to 2 nuclear powers warring and will claim nobell prize.

And we will brag about how we negotiated a trade deal with him.

[KL Dubey]

Four factors:

- Bharat's stand right from the start of operation sindoor was that escalation from pak and/or its terror ecosystem would be met with highly damaging response, hence the ball was never in our court to stop the battle. In other words, any pause/lull in action are conditional and temporary.

- At the same time, the key stated objective of the operation is to bring the terror ecosystem (including its backers) to justice. Some of these terrorists have been reported to be killed in our strikes, but many others including Hafiz Saeed are still at large, plus a bunch of ISI backers including Munir.

- The non-military responses are continuing with no temporary pause.

- A new statement from Bharat is that any further act of terror will be considered act of war.

In my opinion, as long as Bharat stands uncompromising on all the above points in the May 12 "talks", it is hard to see how the above factors can be met without continuing the military action. Obviously the terrorists and ISI backers are not going to change their profession/ideology and become "good guys". Either they need to be blown away by us and take back POJK, or Pak needs to hand them over immediately to Bharat along with POJK.

On the other hand, if Bharat accepts some kind of watered-down outcome, that will be rather disappointing - but the good news is that whatever the outcome of this specific operation, Pak is well on the way to destruction. Our military operations from May 7-10 are already a transformational event which has further accelerated that Pak destruction process. Let's see what happens now.

[sidp]

Indians still seek validation from the media?

unless we buy out Soros western media narrative won't change ever. So we should not care. But we should definitely release the kill numbers and any visual proofs. No more dry readouts in the press briefing.

[Jay]

Something is seriously wrong with comms strategy and this constant reliance on experts and sources is not the way to address communication gaps.

We are finding out there is no comms strategy. This won't end up well. Someone higher up the chain thinks if we won't play this game, we won't end up losing but they fail to realize that in the absence of information, mis-information will flood the zone and all the consequences because of this. I do not know why or what this government is so afraid of, in times like these.

[zoverian]

Just from a technical point of view, there is no where the word ceasefire has been mentioned in the statement. The word which was used is a "Stop". May be experts from this forum throw more light on this

[KL Dubey]

^Yes, exactly. For that reason, I also did not use the word "ceasefire" in my post above.

[Baikul]

It’s deceptively simple: What were our objectives from engagement and to what extent did we accomplish them?

If we cannot show concrete, unarguable achievements then I’m afraid this battle will come down to he said, she said.

Obviously the Pakistanis will not accept their losses unless we can prove it.

It will be a war of perceptions.

[Cyrano]

If even a single terrorist attack happens now and next state level and general elections (which is not impossible given innumerable sleeper cells) Modi ji's credibility will be in the dust. Opposition and even allies will not spare him and BJP. This is a serious miscalculation of the nation's mood and expectation. Therefore I wish that this stopfire will not last more than a day or two. Let's have the internal matters discussion in the strat forum.

[gakakkad]

Porkies even before internet existed managed to convince their audience they won and internationally 65 is regarded as a stalemate .

This is much of the same . They had their tashreef handed over to them . But domestic bravado exists . I don't think Saddam convinced his own people he won in 1991 . I personally don't care what their nutjob population thinks . But internationally it is important for the world to know we are a hard superpower to reckon with and if you ****** around there is a guarantee of finding out .

[williams]

If IWT is still in abeyance, we need to maintain that. Talk should be at military level and not with the civilian clowns. We then can continue with the regular programming. But any evidence of infiltration or Jihadi support should entail restarting the conflict.

[A_Gupta]

1. While Pakistan is not a democracy, the futures of its various leaders does depend somewhat on public opinion of their people. It might be better if the same incompetents remain in power instead of a change of leadership. I wouldn't worry too much about their narrative.

2. Recruitment to the jihad also depends on public opinion. Am not sure how that will work out.

3. Future attacks on India depend on what the Paki army thinks. Narrative doesn't matter there, unless they are stupid enough to believe their narrative. That they asked the US to get them a ceasefire suggests that they are not entirely stupid, they know when they ran out of steam. Their public narrative that they are uniquely brave Musalmans doesn't matter.

4. I don't think Chinese leadership is influenced by narratives, they are realists, as far as I can tell. I think China is currently Pakistan's "bhaagya vidhaata", and not Allah or America. What they do with Pakistan bears close watch.

5. Doesn't matter what the West thinks, as long as India gets the tech, investment and markets that it wants. No one is going to cede UNSC permanent membership or any other addition to Indian power willingly, India will have to wrest it. Narrative isn't as important as real power. I don't discount narrative, but it is secondary.

6. India is a democracy and how much importance the GoI places on things depends on public opinion. This is IMO where the narrative is the most important. It is the people of India who get to decide what happens, and I hope they make the right choices.

[KL Dubey]

Now, the statement from Sec. Misri specifically says the two military commanders (DGMOs) will talk on May 12.

So, it appears this will not be a high-level political negotiation. Instead, it may be the backdrop for a separate meeting of political leadership, perhaps including US poltoos.

What will the commanders talk about ?

[A_Gupta]

> What will the commanders talk about ?
The mechanics of disengaging the militaries. How to make sure while one side is moving back from forward positions the other doesn't strike kind of thing. I imagine they will map out a sequence of specific steps that must be completed at specific times.

[Cyrano]

Their weekend golf scores.

[KL Dubey]

^^"A_gupta", I doubt that. There is no such instruction/intent shown in the statement.

[williams]

Now, the statement from Sec. Misri specifically says the two military commanders (DGMOs) will talk on May 12.

So, it appears this will not be a high-level political negotiation.

What will the commanders talk about ?

Simply ...Paki: please please please don't hit us India: ok as long as you behave.

[Tanaji]

I dont understand the whining:

• GoI on Day 1 hits 9 targets and says this is proportional and non military to avoid escalation
• Pak responds with attack on military and civilian targets
• Indian responds on 2 nights against military targets and says this is proportional. At no point did it say or signal any intention to decapitate PA, break Pak into two or capture territory
• Some uber jingos started expecting Baluchistan breaking off, Munir on lamp post, PN sunk
• GoI agrees to ceasefire
• Jingoes start rona dhona because Pak is not broken

What logic is this hain jee?

[AdityaM]

I totally agree with this poster

https://x.com/godofparadoxes/status/192 ... 53683?s=46

Coming to public perception across the world, it doesn't matter to me but putting it across to burst the bubble of deluded indians, from what I have seen is being viewed as the loosing side with 5 aircrafts shot down. Terrible handling of enemy propaganda by GoI

An insipid Babu led paper readouts are not going to create winning public perceptions. Not once did we play up our gains. Media & PR totally messed.
India is a peace loving country is too much in our politics & bureaucracy's blood.

Battle victory perceptions are not built on how technically excellent we were. They need visible tangible & extraordinary imagery.
Claiming 5 planes with crash imagery is way more effective than explaining how air ingress was denied beyond the border.
If we shot down their planes, then they should have been splashed all over, claiming the pilot missing.

Modi despite his great leadership has been misguided into peace pause

[Jay]

Indians still seek validation from the media?

Ok, let's not seek validation from media. Where do you suggest we seek it from? Our own pressers, have you seen it how inadequate they are? Forget about seeking validation, but what do we need to do to even find out what's going on and how its going on?

[drnayar]

i think Bharat wants to focus on its ascendancy as the 3rd biggest economy and power in the next 5 years . Modi is not stupid to let that be affected by a failed donkey state .But make no mistake., the military will get the funds it needs. Some take aways of this conflict

Indian weapons work and really well too ; there should be full-fledged push for indigenisation and production of *ALL* weapon systems and eliminate any foreign weapons

Trump is unpredictable, We did what was best.

[Ashokk]

Reports of ADS siren in Akhnoor & Jammu, drones seen in Hiranagar & Kathua. Lets see how long the ceasefire holds.

[KL Dubey]

Looks like "rona dhona" (despite moderator warnings) was alive and well before, during, and "after" the operation

[AkshaySG]

What changes from the post Uri and post Balakot terror scenarios ?

In both Uri and Pulwama they learned that a bigger attack 15+ casualties invited military engagement and strong response so they spent the next few years ambushing groups of 4-5 soldiers or patrols or smaller skirmishes till they got hold enough to try again.

Saying we will treat terror attack as an act of War makes sense for Pahalgham,Pulwama but how does it affect these 2-5 casualty attacks

If we continue to "proportionally retailiate" with some cross border shelling etc then that is not enough to stop them from happening

[SRajesh]

This has been a disastrous PR job.
My main concern is the 0.5 internal shit heads
Wire and Laundry will go bonkers!!
Odds and Sods will be Published.
Jihadis wll say we said so
Congis and sicuklar are just wating to stick the knife in.

[KL Dubey]

i think Bharat wants to focus on its ascendancy as the 3rd biggest economy and power in the next 5 years . Modi is not stupid to let that be affected by a failed donkey state

That is all true, but I believe Modi will not compromise on military action. He will give the account of the present operation and what it achieved, and he has already stated that military action will resume upon any further terror acts.

[drnayar]

What changes from the post Uri and post Balakot terror scenarios ?

In both Uri and Pulwama they learned that a bigger attack 15+ casualties invited military engagement and strong response so they spent the next few years ambushing groups of 4-5 soldiers or patrols or smaller skirmishes till they got hold enough to try again.

Saying we will treat terror attack as an act of War makes sense for Pahalgham,Pulwama but how does it affect these 2-5 casualty attacks

If we continue to "proportionally retailiate" with some cross border shelling etc then that is not enough to stop them from happening

we can also have unannounced "surgical strikes" whenever and wherever we want. All of porkistan is now fair game.

[putnanja]

https://x.com/cvkrishnan/status/1921216746096386284

[Tanaji]

Folks here haven’t been through the phase where we were getting halaaled every other week in bomb blasts and Maun mohan and his joker HM and Maino would do nothing or mutter “kuch to karna hoga” or prostrate in front of Mirwaiz and Abdullahs…

This is such a change in posture that shows we will go to massive lengths to avenge deaths

[vera_k]

Big name terrorists Dawood and Azhar survived this round.

This round, GoI offered a face saver first time round by going after terrorist "camps". That option may not be available next time round if the "camps" now start using civilian infrastructure like schools and hospitals.

Will that matter? Maybe not, since there will be military targets to go after if every terror attack results in a Op Sindoor type operation.

[bala]

Shouldn't India insist that the Pukes have to vacate PoK/Gilgit Baltistan which is a UN resolution. This should be minimum for ceasefire. Remove all the artillery guns from PoK, which has killed many civilians including one high ranking official in Poonch/Rajouri area. Kashmore is the contention and Pak land has to vacate those territories asap. Infiltration caused Pahalgam massacre of innocents. I don't understand why India did not insist on these as a pre-condition for ceasefire.

[KL Dubey]

Personally, I thought the MEA+MOD briefings were well done...terse and positive, not veering into unconfirmed or operations-sensitive news.

Now is the time for Bharat (and BRF, to the extent we can) to properly assess the true magnitude of what we have inflicted, instead of starting out with "disastrous PR job" whines.

[williams]

I think we established our right to military response whenever there is a Paki terror attack in India.
We need to build a mechanism to immediately strike whenever terror infrastructure is rebuild in Paki land - not in 15 days - in one hour.
We need to establish a disproportionate response mechanism for any cheese fire violation.
We need to spend some money, training, SOP to get our part of the story in the western media and long term work on downgrading western media by helping our own media houses get established in the west.

[konaseema]

We think that Pakistani Armed Forces & its generals are rational and will stop all terror activities against us because of this cease fire. I think they have been served a notice and that this operation is not over yet. There may be numerous mulla officers of the PA, across the LOC who maybe trigger happy. All it takes a few artillery shells or few mortars to be fired across the LoC to restart the operation. Having said that, we have accomplished a lot during the last 3 days.