Operation Sindoor - Bharat Strikes Back: Jai Hind!

[Cyrano]

Vimal ji,
While we can reasonably be critical of our govt there is no need to take personal potshots at the PM of the country and ironise with epithets like BishwaGuru. Hope you understand.

[Dilbu]

Republic TV says ceasefire violation in Jaisalmer. Abdali missile intercepted.

[A_Gupta]

I’ll tell you what winning looks like. It’s a grievous blow to Pakistani prestige and sense of self. It’s making them believe they’ve lost.

That could be as ‘simple’ objective as one F16 fighter down, or more difficult, land taken and held, or even tougher a port destroyed - anything that hits the national pride of that shameless country.

Anything less will only make them believe they won, sustain their self mythos, raise their spirits, nourish their arrogance and going forward. Their army will use it to further file their already depraved cult of religious and ethnic superiority. And make them bolder for future misadventures.

I disagree. Losing half the country in 1971 and 93,000 surrendered did absolutely zero to make them believe they lost, upset their self mythos, lower their spirits beyond a few months, teach them some humility.

There is no lesson other than destruction beyond the point of reconstitution that will end this. And this objective will not happen in one battle. It is a long war, just like the Cold War, that took 5 decades to happen with the Soviet Union. Pakistan is a smaller problem; one can hope that it will happen much faster. In fact, if the IMF simply refused to give the next tranche of the loan to Pakistan, the process of collapse would havel accelerated.

Military collapse is desirable, but unlikely. A total economic-social-political collapse that sweeps the Paki army with it is more likely.

[krithivas]

#FirstPost - China and the United States have launched a propaganda campaign against India after the Indian forces put heavy costs on the Pakistani forces.

https://x.com/i/status/1921251371702948051

[gakakkad]

Republic TV says ceasefire violation in Jaisalmer. Abdali missile intercepted.

Which one was abdali ? Again how can we be sure it was not a nuke ?

[Dilbu]

These guys are making random statements on live TV. Will wait for more details before quoting them further.

[SRajesh]

just watched 'The Clown' adrress the unwashed!!
His facial expression is worth in pure gold.
Looks like he has had the same treatment that Im the Dim Had in Jail!!!
23 minutes of pure joy watching him!!
He has kssed every arse in the world for saving their life!!

[gakakkad]

^linky ?

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/yedwise/status/1921219687364407325 ---> Aura is heavier than the words.

[LakshmanPST]

What jingos expected from Modi--->
"With all the word jugglery of proportionate, adequate, non-military, non-escalatory etc., Modi Govt. is laying ground work to prove Pakistanis as aggresors and make them attack India first so that India could freely unleash its power on Pakis... This was some 4D chess to build a case against Pakis to go to full spectrum war ..."
----
What jingos fear about Modi--->
"Modi Govt. is actually taking all that word jugglery seriously and they seriously want to de-escalate at the first opportunity... By doing this, Modi Govt. is missing a once in a lifetime opportunity to militarily defeat and destroy Pak, Break Pak into pieces, Re-occupy PoK etc."
----
The question here is, "Are we really capable of carrying out a full fledged war in Pakistan, on enemy territory, with many countries not supporting us, with threat of sanctions...?"
"Are Indians ready to see body bags, Indians losing major assets, economy going down in the short term, lose jobs, cyber attacks etc....?"
----
I really don't know what Modi Govt. is thinking at this point... We can only wait and see how things go forward...

[Shivaji]

I can see this evolve in few trajectories from here:
1. This CFV is mainly due to PAF and bearded Abduls from Army not able to take visible maar we gave them pressured Munir / Shahbaz --> once they are subjected even more punishment in coming days, there will be another request for ceasefire.
2. This CFV was China and may be EU/Canada/DS ploy all along to show Trump admin in bad light --> Trump admin can be brought along and Pakis punished to the extent we desire
3. This CFV is ploy by China and may be EU/Canada/DS to cut both Trump and Modi to size and bog down in Ukraine like prolonged war --> I am not sure what could be the end game
4. This is trap China had made with Pakis and Bangladesh to cut Modi to size mainly --> this is something we can manage through diplomacy and military means

Hope we avoid Ukraine - Russia kind of situation as that is the least favourable scenario. Being a pawn in geopolitical game will take us back multiple years.

[Cyrano]

It's just been just 3 days of action but it was very very intense for the govt and the forces. But it's time to reassess our achievements ( which could have exceeded our own expectations) and refocus on our core objectives. If the govt and services chiefs take a few hours to do that instead of getting tangled in calls with US officials they will see clearly that the only way fwd that will serve Bharat long term is to break the Paki mil establishment now.

[Raja]

It's just been just 3 days of action but it was very very intense for the govt and the forces. But it's time to reassess our achievements ( which could have exceeded our own expectations) and refocus on our core objectives. If the govt and services chiefs take a few hours to do that instead of getting tangled in calls with US officials they will see clearly that the only way fwd that will serve Bharat long term is to break the Paki mil establishment now.

why do you think that you have more insights into how to dismember Pakistan than our military?

[S_Madhukar]

Great points by all but my question is did we expect ballistic missiles being used in this short conflict and if not then are we under attack specially when civilians are being targeted, so any pretence of limited conflict went out of the door long ago. Like in Yes Prime Minister when do you press the (panic/Start/red) button? When a warhead falls in Kartavya Path? For Bakis as per their ego and not brain by now all their lines are crossed so they are not thinking of retreating

[S_Madhukar]

I also don’t think dismemberment was the plan of GoI in this conflict but this may be the firing gun. Anyway monsoons are coming and doubt this will last even as Bakis want to score a goal before the whistle

[RCase]

#FirstPost - China and the United States have launched a propaganda campaign against India after the Indian forces put heavy costs on the Pakistani forces.

https://x.com/i/status/1921251371702948051

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[ManuJ]

This will be painful.

Never start a war you cannot decisively win.

Unfortunately Indian government's refusal to use overwhelming force to subdue Pakistan's military even in the face of Pakistan's ballistic missile attacks, and the nonsensical insistence on 'proportional and measured' response to each and every provocation, has only left Pakistan further emboldened and in a position to claim victory or at least a draw. Expect more brazen and frequent terrorist attacks, not less.

By not winning decisively and by giving Pakistan an opportunity to claim victory/parity, India's position in the world has weakened after this mini war. It will lead the world to again equate India with Pakistan, rather than treating India as a much more powerful and stable country than its terrorist neighbor. Agreeing to a US-UK brokered ceasefire with Pakistan - really?! I can't imagine US or China ever agreeing to something like that when dealing with a pesky 3rd rate banana republic. India should have declared a unilateral ceasefire only after its objectives were fully met.

By refusing to counter the heavy PR that Pakistan dished out w.r.t aerial combats and its alleged downing of IAF planes using Chinese missiles, India has left the world in awe of Chinese capabilities and reinforced the Chinese narrative of being equal or superior to western military technology. This will hurt India in the long run and will result in a lot more Chinese arms flowing into South Asia.

India's lack of investment in its military with an ever-shrinking military budget, sinking to below 2% of its GDP, is showing the stark reality of India's military and intelligence preparedness. GoI leadership must realize that rhetoric only goes that far - it has to be backed by money and effort. Note the report of Maxar Technologies’ partnership with a Pakistani firm and a spike in Pahalgam satellite image requests being missed by Indian intelligence. There is no option but to buckle up and invest massively (4%+) and consistently for decades in our own Military Industrial Complex if we want to be taken seriously and to truly deter Pakistan and China.

[S_Madhukar]

Proportional response - is someone in UN measuring with a tape ?
MEA and MoD needs to get this out of their skulls first- that will be a start !
By talking less to media and playing down your success does not mean opponent will play nice with you!
If not Chanakya , Machiavelli is a decent must read for our decision makers.
My other worry is like IG during emergency , is NaMo getting the right feedback at the right time? I know the team is great but sometimes you miss the trees in the forest

[gakakkad]

Manuj , technically the objectives were met . Though the objectives should have been different

[vijayk]

https://x.com/Razarumi/status/1921244167465746724
CNN started reverse propaganda ... India begged for ceasefire mediation

[Raja]

The rona dhona in here is so typical. The govt. had a very specific objective and they never wavered from that. It is not the govts. fault if some of you started day dreaming about IA tanks in Lahore and IN bombing Karachi port.

Only critical question, in my opinion, is if we took unnecessary risks in phase 1 for our pilots by not first degrading their defensive capabilities. After phase 1, the govts. objective was very clear -- not escalate but keep making it incrementally worse till Pakistan gives up (while still giving them some face saving off ramp).

[SRajesh]

^linky ?

Saar
Its on Dawn website!!

[Baikul]

https://x.com/Razarumi/status/1921244167465746724
CNN started reverse propaganda ... India begged for ceasefire mediation

If you see the video it clearly states that Indian asked for a ceasefire according to Pakistani sources

This is the Bakistani version of “Damn I’m a stud, just ask me”

[williams]

Ok let us see how we came here.

It all started with some diplomatic action and IWT in abeyance. The Jingo in me was happy but wanted a little more.

By 11 or 12 days, I was looking for more and got a bit frustrated and almost gave up. Then May 6th happened. I was very happy.

Then Paki drones came and we took off their radars in Lahore. I was very happy that our AD systems were performing so great. Then Pakis started throwing drones, missiles and everything else and I got frustrated the third day.

Then India started striking 6 AFBs plus two radar sides. At this point I thought end game has started and the jingo in me said, if we can go for all out strikes and even take out their nuke sites and go for free Baluchistan etc..

But Modi sarkar was always doing things in calibrated fashion and were always providing an off ramp for the Pakis. Pakis took this cease fire thing and then violated that in 30 mins. There can be more surprises from Modi sarkar that we don't know. Every time Jingoes were frustrated with GoI move, we got some happy surprises but in their timing not ours.

So if Pakis are laughing and thinking they have achieved some tactical brilliance, and Jingoes are sad. Please be patient. GoI will hit them with another rude shock. For all we know Munir's days are counted and Paki are in the verge of implosion. If we are thinking so much, I am sure GoI is weighing all options with better visibility and resources. We'll see what they come up with.

Plus GoI is mum on other Paki air assets taken out. Those things will come out slowly. So let us be a bit slow judge.

[S_Madhukar]

Fact is a portion of that IMF aid will now go to all the shitty media scum like CNN and wider ecosystem. This is a parasitic relationship that people like us keep away from but that curries favour for the Bakis… either we up our game in media or invest in our capabilities so that next time in 2 days we can say all objectives met and disengage

[LakshmanPST]

What were India's stated objectives at the start of the conflict...?
Actually nothing...
----
To what level did India want to take things...?
If we see the chronology of events till now,
We wanted to take revenge for terrorist attacks and we did kill some of them...
We did expect response from Pakistan... But looks like we only wanted to counter it effectively and wrap things up...
Looks like that was the only thing we gamed...

Sorry to say, but looks like we just wanted to send yet another strong message and wind things up as early as possible...
----
As of now, it doesn't look like they want to go for full spectrum war...
This is hugely underwhelming...
----
Solution to Kashmir problem lies in military defeat of Pakistan army... That requires a full-fledged war...
Either it is present or future... War is inevitable...

If Modi Govt. really didn't want to take the Red-pill and escalate, history will remember him as another Nehru who wasted a golden opportunity to solve a long term issue...

[Baikul]

This will be painful.

Never start a war you cannot decisively win.

Unfortunately Indian government's refusal to use overwhelming force to subdue Pakistan's military even in the face of Pakistan's ballistic missile attacks, and the nonsensical insistence on 'proportional and measured' response to each and every provocation, has only left Pakistan further emboldened and in a position to claim victory or at least a draw. Expect more brazen and frequent terrorist attacks, not less.

By not winning decisively and by giving Pakistan an opportunity to claim victory/parity, India's position in the world has weakened after this mini war. It will lead the world to again equate India with Pakistan, rather than treating India as a much more powerful and stable country than its terrorist neighbor. Agreeing to a US-UK brokered ceasefire with Pakistan - really?! I can't imagine US or China ever agreeing to something like that when dealing with a pesky 3rd rate banana republic. India should have declared a unilateral ceasefire only after its objectives were fully met.

By refusing to counter the heavy PR that Pakistan dished out w.r.t aerial combats and its alleged downing of IAF planes using Chinese missiles, India has left the world in awe of Chinese capabilities and reinforced the Chinese narrative of being equal or superior to western military technology. This will hurt India in the long run and will result in a lot more Chinese arms flowing into South Asia.
…

This. All of it.

In particular:

“Expect more brazen and frequent terrorist attacks, not less”

“ It will lead the world to again equate India with Pakistan, rather than treating India as a much more powerful and stable country than its terrorist neighbor.”

And

“India has left the world in awe of Chinese capabilities and reinforced the Chinese narrative of being equal or superior to western military technology. This will hurt India in the long run”


And there is a risk that we will be remembered in the worst way in this narrative - even if it is fake - for a while as the people who ‘proved’ Chinese superiority.

That’s why if we have time we must win this engagement decisively.

[LakshmanPST]

The issue here is not.about the stated objectives of Operation Sindoor...
The issue is that events after Operation Sindoor gave India a huge opportunity to destroy Pak once and for all...
The frustration & fear is that Modi Govt. may be wasting that opportunity...

[Anujan]

“Expect more brazen and frequent terrorist attacks, not less”

This is wrong analysis.

India has decisively demonstrated that after every terror attack, India will bomb terror factories all over Pakistan, and air bases too if Pakistan retaliates.

* The previous addled thinking of "if we attack, they will use nuclear bum onlee!!" has been torn to shreds.
* The previous addled thinking of "the best we can do to retaliate is some border raids onlee" has also been torn to shreds.
* "If they attack across LoC, tradition demands that we too attack across LoC because according to UN article 51, the Shimla agreement, Article 360 and Nehru Jinnah pact, IB is different onlee when compared to LoC, and PoK and JK are bilateral issues onlee, so okay to attack across LOC in POK onleee" also is torn to shreds.

Now the expectation of Indian public is that India will bomb Pakistan if Pakistan attacks with terrorists. The starting point for any terror attack is not "India should collect dossiers", it is "India should bomb muridke". If Mumbai attacks happen today, India will bomb Karachi

Pakistanis can claim all the victory they want, but the fact remains that if they carry out something on the scale of Mumbai, they know that India will go to war. They tried it out in Pulwama. India bombed them. They bought some cheap drones, and tried it out again at Pahalgam, India bombed them. Perhaps they've learned next time they try some tactical brilliance, India will bomb them again.

This is also a good opportunity to take stock from India's side. We've been very critical about defense procurement, modernization etc. But the fact remains that we are largely okay, our procurement process is like Post Office. It is slow, buildings are a bit outdated, but it is a huge organization, and things go where they have to.

We have to plug gaps, I assume this is a wakeup call for everyone about the quality of indigenous maal and the need for a domestic MIC which can step up and replenish during war time. From reports, our Akash worked well. So did our upgraded L70. Brahmos. ityadi: If HAL can churn out 24 Tejas in 1 year, who cares if a few tejas are lost during the war as long as pilots are safe? We'll make five times that number next year. HAL will get more orders, workers will get more bonus, everyone will be happy.

More importantly, the gap between us is growing. In next five years, we will be self sufficient across the spectrum. The economy instead of 11x bigger, will be 16x bigger. Pakis are busy fixing elections and getting IMF loans.

[Baikul]

What I want to know is where are the b@stards who murdered our people at Pahalgam?

In all of the war fever I lost track of what was happening with them?

Is there any chance we can at least capture one alive?

[Raja]

The issue here is not.about the stated objectives of Operation Sindoor...
The issue is that events after Operation Sindoor gave India a huge opportunity to destroy Pak once and for all...
The frustration & fear is that Modi Govt. may be wasting that opportunity...

What huge opportunity? It was not just India holding back. Both sides were holding back to a large degree. For better or worse, it would be a mistake to think what happened last days is how a full fledged war would unfold.

And why do you think we will not have dozens of more opportunities like this over the next years? There will be many more.

[RCase]

This will be painful.

Never start a war you cannot decisively win.
...

Totally disagree.
It was never intended to be a full blown out war.

I don't think the world equates India to a terrorist, failing state. In fact what has been achieved is to make Pakistan synonymous with a terrorist state. They are viewed no differently than Hamas.

I feel India should have extracted it's pound of flesh for even entertaining a cessation of operations, but I am sure that the govt. and military leadership would have a better perspective of all the factors that need to be taken care.

Nobody with half a brain is buying the outlandish claims of aircraft downings by the Pakis. Their government themselves had to eat crow in public forums. We never had Indian govt officials or MEA/ MOD personnel make outlandish claims publicly, to the point where it mostly sounded boring and routine.

If there are countries lining up to buy Chinese arms.... good luck to them. (Might get a deal on TEMU too ). If not anything else, the Chinese brochure bull has been laid threadbare for any person with a reasonable IQ to see. To see a fully unexploded P15 missile laying on the ground doesn't require a genius to realize it was a dud.

On the other hand, it has become eminently clear that the Indian air defence has performed spectacularly. Kudos to all the folks who have been quietly working to make it happen, despite all the cynics among the public about the military industrial complex.

Should India increase it's GDP? Sure! I have been pleasantly surprised with the execution of this skirmish. Even if we can discount a few claims due to the propaganda and misinformation on both sides, the overall results that one could clearly see is that India's weapons did a wonderful job of hitting 9 targets on day 1. On the Indian side, the main destruction that I saw was the shelling in Jammu on the civilian houses and near a temple. There could have been more, but nothing has surfaced yet.

On the other hand, even if some of the claims by Indian side (the public) is discounted for lack of visual proofs, it has already been accepted by DG ISPR of a few airbases being hit. We don't know about loss of AWACS, Refuellers etc. with a 100% confidence from open sources. The same for planes being downed and pilots captured.

However, after a while, the real battle damage will become public and on the Paki side this information will trickle out over time with their faux paux.

Intelligence failures can happen. It is very easy for armchair warriors to second guess after the fact. I am sure the Paki Military establishment has enough satellite images, maps and pictures of Pahalgam. The 'non-state actors' of Pak are hand in glove with the fauj and have access to intel.

I am sure right now, there is probably enough of interest from Indian analysts and general folks inquiring about satellite images of Pak air bases, all those markaz locations etc. Could that be construed that all those analysts and OSINT guys are planning an attack on Pakistan?

[krithivas]

India (Bharat) had an objective to avenge Pahalgam, we met that objective. Destroyed the families of those terrorists that harmed Indians.
India destroyed Paki airfields like there was no-tomorrow. In that we extended and exceeded our objectives.
India destroyed incoming cheap Chinese crud of a military ware - Chinese ding-dongs are just ding dongs. In that we humiliated China. Another unexpected objective on which we exceeded our expectations.
Paki victory dance is an off-ramp, that's it. Don't get distracted.

[pravula]

I am disappointed...I was hoping for at least one pic of a cap ready Tejas by now...

[sanjaykumar]

Why do some feel belittled by some inbred teen fanboy’s ranting on social media?


I know little about military affairs, what I saw was Indian attacks on Pakistan military assets in Muridke and Bahawalpur, of all places. On their strategic airfields. Encroaching upon their nuke storage sites. There was no place in Pakistan safe from Indian strikes ,including their capital. There was simply no air defence. Pakistanis weren’t asleep, these facilities were neutralised before they went in.

Contrarily, Indian air defence was wisely distributed and visible and effective. No major defence establishment was disabled, hardly the one (Jamnagar?) was even attacked. The missile defence against the Fateh-2 was probably the last straw for Pakistan. The writing was on the wall.

Will there be lasting peace? It’s only a matter of time before another inbred mulla spouting 7th century ideas tries it again. Why would Indians expect different.

The Indians can literally afford to inflict pain on Pakistan. Next time they may do a US in Kuwait.

The only winners among paks will be those in line for the celestial copulation. Would India deny them that?

[hanumadu]

We hit their airbases and there would be sattelite images, from not just our sattelites but others too. They cannot claim just some trees were hit. I think GOI will release them at an appropriate time.

[putnanja]

I feel GoI felt its objectives were met, which were originally to hit the terrorist camps - 9 of them. And they went extra mile saying they didn't target paki military assets and hit only terrorist centers. That didn't fly with pakis of course and rest is history. They have said in every day's briefing that they are responding to pak's attacks. No where had they mentioned that dismembering pak, seizing territory etc was in plans. So in that way, if pakis stop their attacks, India will stop responding and that's what this "cease fire" does.

Now, it is matter of opinion that when pakis escalated and we responded back, we were in a dominating position, so the idea that we didn't push it and destroy pak is naturally disappointing. However, if things had gone slightly bad and we had taken a hit, people would have not felt this disappointed. Last time after Balakot, after the initial euphoria, once Wg Cmd Abhinandan was captured, it turned the public mood. So, maybe Indian govt felt it was better to accept the ceasefire as objectives were met, and when we had the upper hand.

Now, the press conferences has been very disappointing. There could have been more information provided, more images provided of the damages to the airforce bases, the damages to Eyrie/C-130 etc, which was leaked to some media but not released with proper proof. Just mentioning that we have hit air bases is not sufficient in these days of media/info warfare. That is where they erred. Also, they never addressed the paki claim of indian Rafales/SU-30s being hit. There is no wreckage on paki side and on the Indian side, if there were any, people would be all over it. Whenever any aircraft crashes even in peace time, it is social media which puts it up first. So chances of any crashes on our end is also remote (assuming it didn't happen over any remote mountainous region). The very sterile news conference and monotonous script - while technically correct , didn't have much use in the info warfare, and has led the already biased white man's media to declare pakis as winners/chinese maal as superior etc. Media management needs to be handled better

[sanjaykumar]

Actually I was impressed that the Pak brass gave all those crows man sized coffins. Those pics are around and that was the point.

[milindc]

I say we use this opportunity to get major, observable, irrefutable wins that can’t be argued out, and that become enduring images for this round.

We’re in it so we must keep going.

Else we will be reduced to battling the narrative war cof decades, with Pakistani military only given a boost.

India has already lost the narrative war boss what are you smoking. CNN is openly saying India sued for peace because it was afraid of Paki missiles.
Everyone is calling this a tit for tat stupidity . All the high moral ground has been lost in this proportionality nonsense.

What was needed was to drop a few in open civilian areas to destroy infrastructure for all to see. But Vishwaguru plays by the book.

Please calm down.. this never ending whining and being sarcastic towards Modi Ji is just tiresome. I know we all want us to send Paki to stone age. We don't get all we want every time. The fact that we hit airbases, we hit terrorist campuses, homes was just unimaginable 2-3 weeks back. The fact that IWT is gone was in our dreams. The military leadership knows our shortcomings and probably saw something that they are not comfortable. We don't want a prolonged war which will drag us, we are on ascension. The morale of Paki Awaam has been crushed.. few teens are shouting on social media, but the general awaam is on 'Reham Allah' mode. Last 10 years we saw the economic collapse of Pakistan, and slowly in another 10 years we might see the collapse of army.

[konaseema]

Yeh Dil Mange More!!! We all want more from the government and a solution for Kashmir using this, so called once in a lifetime opportunity. We need to think how we got here before thinking where we can go from here. Did we know how good our Air Defense systems were and how they will function in a networked environment? Did we know how bad Pakistan's Air Defense network would be? I honestly for one didn't know either of these facts. In any walk of life, the contingencies that we plan for (aka Plan B & Plan C) are for failures of our primary plan, which is Plan A.

For one, I have never planned for a successful contingency. Hence the positives we have scored are so overwhelming, that we are trying to use this to achieve our pipe dream of finding a solution for Kashmir. I am in agreement that we didn't have "Permanent solution for Kashmir as our primary objective". Hence our military apparatus will need to account for these positives and the fact that China / America didn't poke their noses until now.

Having said all these, Pakistan is a multi-headed monster and almost every citizen is a jihadi and will act as another head of this Hydra. Do we need to be critical of this government for not foresighted to cash on this opportunity to find a lasting solution for Kashmir? Be my guest and vent all your frustrations in the forum. There is no way this Indian government or any other government will be able to satisfy our collective wishes. I am going to rejoice the moment of success and hope for a positive outcome from here on.

Does that positive outcome be a solution for Kashmir, hell yes, but I will settle for everything positive that this Operation will eventually achieve when it has reached its logical conclusion. Please remember, when you gamble and when you are winning, you need to know when to walk away with the money you have own. Else, the thumb rule is, the house always wins. Jai Hind!