India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

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KL Dubey
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

sanjaykumar wrote: 10 Apr 2025 04:18 That is where immigration control comes in. America can give work permits for 5-10 years or even citizenship to have people from other countries do this type of work. People who pay taxes and stimulate domestic demand. I dare say Chinese will be eager to come over and continue the low skill labour in those very same factories relocated in the US.
These are fantasies. Need some basic knowledge of US politics and laws.

(1) Work permits (types and numbers) are based on laws passed by congress. There are no provisions for any such permits.

(2) Creating laws to issue work permits for low-wage work, will be political suicide for any party.

If these items were "easy" to do, it would already have been done long ago to regularize the Mexican labor (no need to go to China). Detailed posts were made earlier about this.

If you call China "mercantilist and abusive" to the USA, then India and many other countries will also come under that.

The key issue is that USA over the last 50 years decided to raise its standard of living by sending production elsewhere and buying it cheaply, and use its MIC to ensure continuance of this system. That karma has returned with consequences, and no amount of "tariff policy" will fix this.

Tariffs provide (a best) a temporary relief for domestic producers. Also, over longer term, retaliatory tariffs by other countries negate such effects. The US market is still the largest, but for how long. Other large markets are now growing rapidly...that tide is also turning and not in favor of USA.
Last edited by KL Dubey on 10 Apr 2025 09:10, edited 1 time in total.
uddu
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by uddu »

vijayk wrote: 10 Apr 2025 02:17 Jeffrey Sachs tells India not to trust US :rotfl:
We have nothing to do with the Right Vs Left Ideological battle happening in the West. Indian ideals of Dharma must continue to guide us and also with countries that are so and comfortable working with us in that context. The All alignment strategy based on Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam is a very good strategy that defines the resurgence of Ancient Bharat in its new Avatar. We engage with anyone and everyone and also open debate and discussion sorting out issues and finding new opportunities. Even though we have a capable military, Resurgence of independent Indian military that is a Global Dominant power is one of the missing links at the moment.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Might be the right way to deal with China. But why does one put an increased tariff on one’s ally Australia with whom one has a trade surplus? Is it necessary to do so to deal with China?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by uddu »

Reasons could be many
U.S investments is going into Aus
Image

https://x.com/AvidCommentator/status/18 ... 3697161347
Australia exported more to China in 2023-24 than to its next 7 largest trading partners combined.

Image

Also the govts in these countries are mostly Pro Leftist/Woke/Islamist typically against Trump.

Aus will be most affected by Trump tariff on China than on themselves. :lol:
India seems to be in a very good position at the moment, compared to the likes of Kaneda, Mexico and China. And there is a greater chance to acquire rare earths and other minerals needed by us at cheap rates from such countries.
https://www.threads.net/@vizualytiks/po ... vilMXCjAww
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

There are no provisions for work permits. This is simply a brilliant analysis of the issue. I learnt much from your post.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by sanjaykumar »

Of course India being considered a mercantilist country betrays a deficit in understanding the term
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by gakakkad »

uddu wrote: 10 Apr 2025 10:56 Reasons could be many
U.S investments is going into Aus
Image

https://x.com/AvidCommentator/status/18 ... 3697161347
Australia exported more to China in 2023-24 than to its next 7 largest trading partners combined.

Image

Also the govts in these countries are mostly Pro Leftist/Woke/Islamist typically against Trump.

Aus will be most affected by Trump tariff on China than on themselves. :lol:
India seems to be in a very good position at the moment, compared to the likes of Kaneda, Mexico and China. And there is a greater chance to acquire rare earths and other minerals needed by us at cheap rates from such countries.
https://www.threads.net/@vizualytiks/po ... vilMXCjAww
Are those annual numbers of investment to Australia? Don't make sense at all. Unkik invested a trillion dollars to Australia in 2023 ? Belgium 380 b .bullocks. that's half the size of Belgian gdp
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

sanjaykumar wrote: 10 Apr 2025 18:57 There are no provisions for work permits. This is simply a brilliant analysis of the issue. I learnt much from your post.
Your post said "America can give permits for low-wage workers...."

In response, I gave details why that is highly unlikely. First, there are no such legal provisions (executive cannot start issuing permits on their own), and secondly nobody will bring a bill in congress to legally permit lower-wage workers. This is why the vast mass of illegal Mexican workers exist.

For example, even the H1B program has a safeguard that foreign workers cannot be hired at a lower wage than the prevailing wage rate for each profession determined by Department of Labor. H1B is not just for IT, it covers almost any specialty profession, and plugs gaps wherever there is a shortage.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

uddu wrote: 09 Apr 2025 16:54 The Chinese are making noise about standing together against U.S. They want to dump their products meant for the U.S in India.
Good catch. I said the same last week. Silver lining is that the good destined to the US are slightly of better quality than what China is dumping in India. At least, Indian consumers get to enjoy "export quality" stuff.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

KL Dubey wrote: 10 Apr 2025 08:45 If these items were "easy" to do, it would already have been done long ago to regularize the Mexican labor (no need to go to China). Detailed posts were made earlier about this.
@Sanjaykumar ji,

It had been done a couple of times since 1985. Any migrants without papers, if they could prove that they worked in agriculture - fruit picking, farming - daily jobs were given LPRs. That was the first time around. I waited for 2.5 years for my LPR due to this regularization.

Sure they can do it. It may not necessarily be political suicide, if it is done right.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

KL Dubey wrote: 10 Apr 2025 23:00
sanjaykumar wrote: 10 Apr 2025 18:57 There are no provisions for work permits. This is simply a brilliant analysis of the issue. I learnt much from your post.
This is why the vast mass of illegal Mexican workers exist.
@Sanjaykumar ji, so much misinformation and is being peddled as "thoughtful" analysis.

This poster assumes that Mexicans dominate the undocumented workforce. I don't think the poster can show us those numbers. Mexico is being used as a transit country. As for Canadian border, illegals don't want to come to the US since they get healthcare for free in Canada. Quality of living is pretty close to the US quality of living. Just the public infra is excellent in both the countries - parks, national forests, roads, motels, hotels, libraries, community colleges and public school system. Even Mexico is better than the hellholes of the middle east and countries in Africa ruled by warlords. It is a matter of risk vs rewards. Why would someone take risk to come to the US while they are comfortable in the socialist woke left Canada?!!!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Anyway, it is best to take this sub-discussion to the "Understanding the US - Again" thread , IMHO.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

gakakkad wrote: 10 Apr 2025 20:53
Are those annual numbers of investment to Australia? Don't make sense at all. Unkik invested a trillion dollars to Australia in 2023 ? Belgium 380 b .bullocks. that's half the size of Belgian gdp
"Till 2023" might make better sense. Australia is producing F-35s under license. There may be many other investments in both civilian and defense sectors. Australia has the raw material and the industrial base. No need to ship the raw material elsewhere.

Actually US citizens can go to Australia on visitors visa but also can work while touring the country. A lot of Britishers moved to Australia permanently. They are looking for Americans to move there as well. It is not bad strategy for Australia.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

viewtopic.php?p=2643102#p2643102

Please continue here on the topic of "Immigration into the US". TIA.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Sanjeev Sanyal says that he wants a Free Trade Agreement with the US - zero tariffs on either side (and by implication, not any lesser trade agreement).

He is diplomatic on DOGE.

Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW2_aCZhK9U
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

https://apnews.com/article/trump-tariff ... f547109359
The Trump administration late Friday said it would exclude electronics like smartphones and laptops from reciprocal tariffs, a move that could help keep the prices down for popular consumer electronics that aren’t usually made in the U.S.

It would also benefit big tech companies like Apple and Samsung and chip makers like Nvidia, setting the stage for a likely tech stock rally on Monday.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection said items like smartphones, laptops, hard drives, flat-panel monitors and some chips would qualify for the exemption. Machines used to make semiconductors are excluded too. That means they won’t be subject to the current 145% tariffs levied on China or the 10% baseline tariffs elsewhere.
i.e., Indian electronics products get to pre-Trump tariff levels, while Chinese products retain just the 20% tariff.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by pravula »

KL Dubey wrote: 10 Apr 2025 23:00
sanjaykumar wrote: 10 Apr 2025 18:57 There are no provisions for work permits. This is simply a brilliant analysis of the issue. I learnt much from your post.
Your post said "America can give permits for low-wage workers...."

In response, I gave details why that is highly unlikely. First, there are no such legal provisions (executive cannot start issuing permits on their own), and secondly nobody will bring a bill in congress to legally permit lower-wage workers. This is why the vast mass of illegal Mexican workers exist.

For example, even the H1B program has a safeguard that foreign workers cannot be hired at a lower wage than the prevailing wage rate for each profession determined by Department of Labor. H1B is not just for IT, it covers almost any specialty profession, and plugs gaps wherever there is a shortage.
thats not true. h1b is not the only work visas. H2b exists

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-un ... nt-workers
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

In fact, I was going through my own old passport. There was no H1B at that time. My passport has a notation in handwriting which says "B1 in lieu of H1". I was told to file taxes even if my income is zero which was the case. That was an onsite project for an IT major whose HR never saw anything like that before.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vera_k »

H2 spans both agricultural and non-agricultural work like that at a ski resort.
But guest worker programs have a long history with ebbs and flows.
Operation wetback
Guest worker program
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

pravula wrote: 14 Apr 2025 03:28 thats not true. h1b is not the only work visas. H2b exists

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-un ... nt-workers
I didn't say there are no other work visa programs. I have mentioned H1B as example. I said specifically, there are no programs to offer lower-wage work permits, and nobody will bring any bill to offer that.

H2A is only for seasonal/temp agricultural workers.

H2B, like H1B, is capped at around 65,000/yr. Like I said before, these limits are made by congress, the sarkar cannot just hand out more H2B permits.

And again, both these programs are subject to Dept of Labor standards, i.e. the workers cannot be paid lower than the prevailing wage.

As I said before, these programs are only to plug gaps when there is shortage of qualified domestic workers. There is no cost/competitive advantage to US agriculture or companies by hiring these workers...they just help with survival, let alone competition. Unlike the fake arguments made by some disgruntled Americans on X/elsewhere, H1Bs are not lower-wage workers.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

H1 was split into H1A and H1B in 1990. H1A is for nurses and H1B for speciality occupations other than nursing (from Wikipedia).

I also remember when there was proposal to increase yearly quota limit from 35000 to 65000. Two organizations, which I had a great respect for, opposed.

The Sierra Club opposed on the grounds that "people who come to the US from developing countries increase their environmental footprint by an order of magnitude" or some bull like that. I used to donate to this org in a small way which I stopped.

IEEE opposed to protect salaries and jobs of Electrical Engineers.
ACM never was and still is not as powerful as IEEE in terms of lobbying. So programmers (coders) suffered to some extent. But then IBM mainframes were replaced by departmental servers which were replaced by workstations which in turn got replaced by PCs/Desktops.

Ebb and flow of H1B parallels the technical developments in data processing/computing.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Labor standards are a bit of a joke - if they are not enforced for US citizens who work at strawberry or tomato picking, why would they be enforced for immigrant labor?

Anyway, the life of strawberry pickers in California:
https://civileats.com/2024/04/24/strawb ... ving-wage/
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

A_Gupta wrote: 14 Apr 2025 05:52 Labor standards are a bit of a joke - if they are not enforced for US citizens who work at strawberry or tomato picking, why would they be enforced for immigrant labor?

Anyway, the life of strawberry pickers in California:
https://civileats.com/2024/04/24/strawb ... ving-wage/
What is your point?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

A_Gupta wrote: 14 Apr 2025 05:52 Labor standards are a bit of a joke - if they are not enforced for US citizens who work at strawberry or tomato picking, why would they be enforced for immigrant labor?

Anyway, the life of strawberry pickers in California:
https://civileats.com/2024/04/24/strawb ... ving-wage/
Thanks for that excellent article. Hopefully it reinforces much of what I said. These programs are about either survival or plugging small/short-term gaps, they are not really about gaining cost-competitive advantage.

It will be long (and likely dead-end) road for a democratic USA to open the floodgates to large numbers of legal lower-cost labor for competitive advantage. In addition to economic/legal objections, the US demographics is already a challenge (both the racial and the age distributions).

I don't yet see a parallel between the USA situation versus, say, west Asian countries like UAE, Saudi etc that rely on legal, low-cost labor. These latter countries are mostly autocratic, and do not have a significant labor class of their own citizens.

As for US DoL standards: they are not very high for agro workers of any kind (citizens included). Not much to "enforce" there. It is more of a "unionization" issue to get better wages/conditions/benefits.

As for H1B, DoL regulations and enforcement are quite good as far as I have personally seen. I myself have hired multiple people on H1Bs (these are people with PhDs, not subject to any lottery). I have been paying them much higher than the "prevailing wage" for their professional category.

Of course, with possible DOGE cuts to DoL, nobody knows how/if they will be able to function in future.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Mort Walker »

Dar ka mahul hai… :)
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/18/worl ... rrest.html

Kash Patel is doing his job.
The F.B.I. said on Thursday that it had arrested a man who it said was wanted in India in connection with terrorist activities.
The man, Harpreet Singh, had entered the United States illegally and had been evading capture by using disposable phones and encrypted applications before his arrest in Sacramento on Thursday, the Federal Bureau of Investigation said in a statement.
Mr. Singh is suspected of collaborating with Pakistan’s intelligence agency and with a terrorist group linked to a Sikh separatist movement, the agency said.
India’s National Investigation Agency in January announced a cash reward for the capture of Mr. Singh, saying he was wanted in connection with a grenade attack against a retired police officer in the Indian city of Chandigarh in September.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by vera_k »

Article above claims Tahawwur Rana is an Indian national!

Careless editing I'm sure.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by pravula »

Thats not true. PhD holders are certainly subject to lottery if the total number of cap-exempt applications (higher education in US) exceed 20k. Masters also fall into the same bucket.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

pravula wrote: 20 Apr 2025 06:30 Thats not true. PhD holders are certainly subject to lottery if the total number of cap-exempt applications (higher education in US) exceed 20k. Masters also fall into the same bucket.
Isn't there some kind of fast track for people with PhDs? People with extraordinary ability or something like that? That is how Academia is able to hire and keep foreigners. That doesn't exclude what you are saying though. It is possible that people with PhDs are lot more now that the cap of 20K has become a bottleneck.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by pravula »

Vayutuvan wrote: 20 Apr 2025 06:47
pravula wrote: 20 Apr 2025 06:30 Thats not true. PhD holders are certainly subject to lottery if the total number of cap-exempt applications (higher education in US) exceed 20k. Masters also fall into the same bucket.
Isn't there some kind of fast track for people with PhDs? People with extraordinary ability or something like that? That is how Academia is able to hire and keep foreigners. That doesn't exclude what you are saying though. It is possible that people with PhDs are lot more now that the cap of 20K has become a bottleneck.
EB1 has a fast track program, but it depends on proving that you are an internationally recognized scholar. No free ride just because one has a PhD.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by ernest »

pravula wrote: 20 Apr 2025 08:48
EB1 has a fast track program, but it depends on proving that you are an internationally recognized scholar. No free ride just because one has a PhD.
I believe O1 visa is available to PhDs, somewhat similar to h1Bs but used mostly by academic researchers/ extraordinary ability individuals. Also, there is cap-exempt H1B, which is used by universities and NGOs to hire. No lottery needed
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

pravula wrote: 20 Apr 2025 08:48 EB1 has a fast track program, but it depends on proving that you are an internationally recognized scholar. No free ride just because one has a PhD.
AFAIK, EB1's requirements are fulfilled by most PhDs. They require one or two papers in flagship conferences and/or well regarded journals. That is a requirement for getting a PhD in the top 10-20 universities as well. Most foreigners who come here for PhDs will be going to universities in the top 20 or top 30.

The bar for "internationally recognized scholar" by the labor/state/justice departments is high but not that high that only the 95% qualify. It is possible that I am mixing up EB1 and O1.
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 21 Apr 2025 01:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by gakakkad »

^ eb1 requirements are fairly easy . 200 citations ,letters etc .lot of it is cookie cutter .however they can keep delaying you with RFIs etc
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

Since we are talking about E-B1A, here is one from Economist.
The case of Deedy Das is discussed in this article. He was the founder of Glean an AI company and is worth $2B. He came to Cornell for BS CS. He finished BS and MS in 3.5 years in the 90 percentile. That would be all As. His EB1A was rejected, that too after he submitted 900+ pages of documentation. This was after the success of Glean.

https://archive.is/2024.08.15-164622/ht ... s-spurn-it

Sudhanshu Kaushik and Deedy Das in this video make good points as well. I request any further discussions to be taken to Understanding the US thread. That may be a more appropriate thread. It might fit here as well, IDK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwh9uKozq6c
Trump Visa Crackdown | Is The Great American Dream Over For Indians?

NDTV
14.6M subscribers
...
89,921 views Premiered Apr 16, 2025 #DonaldTrump #Trump #BreakingNews

The American Dream is fading for Indian nationals as tightened H-1B visa rules, a 38% drop in student visa issuances, and 20-30-year green card delays shatter hopes. With AI screenings, consular delays, and shrinking job prospects, Indian students and professionals are turning to Canada and Germany, leaving US universities and tech hubs reeling from a loss of talent and billions in revenue. Is the great American dream over?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

https://sundayguardianlive.com/top-five ... khil-gupta
New Delhi: US prosecutors have informed the Southern District Court of New York that they will add charges of conspiracy to commit money laundering against Indian national Nikhil Gupta.

Gupta, accused by US officials of being involved in a plot to eliminate Khalistani terrorist Gurpatwant Singh Pannun—who is banned under India’s Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act (UAPA)—has been in US custody since 14 June 2024, and is incarcerated at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn. He was arrested in Prague on 30 June 2023, by Czech law enforcement authorities at the request of the US government.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Yagnasri »

So they do not have any evidence in one case, and filed a fresh case with some totally new charges. Typical of a US Prosecutor.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Yagnasri »

I think personal relationship between NM and DJT took a serious beating after the DJT lose talk and fake claims in the last few days. Same with JD and even Marco Rubio. It will not help Indo US relations. DJT needs all the friends he can get and he seems to have lost one.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Trump wants to tax remittances from immigrants to back home.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/rep ... rcna206842
House Republicans have included in President Donald Trump’s big priority bill a 5% excise tax on remittance transfers that would cover more than 40 million people, including green card holders and nonimmigrant visa holders, such as people on H-1B, H-2A and H-2B visas. U.S. citizens would be exempt.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by KL Dubey »

Yagnasri wrote: 13 May 2025 09:30 So they do not have any evidence in one case, and filed a fresh case with some totally new charges. Typical of a US Prosecutor.
Seems like that.

Also, this DDM report (among a few others) shows an older photo of Gurpatwant Pannun and captions it as Nikhil Gupta. :mrgreen: Pannun used to be cleanshaven and wore a ponytail. I wonder if the transformation to beard and headscarf/pagdi occurred concurrently with his recruitment by CIA to play a specific role.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by Vayutuvan »

A_Gupta wrote: 15 May 2025 01:20 Trump wants to tax remittances from immigrants to back home.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/rep ... rcna206842
Can this be challenged in the courts? This seems wrong. They already paid taxes. Isn't this double taxation? They are already taxed without representation.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

Post by A_Gupta »

Bloomberg headline (story behind paywall)
Trump asks Apple to stop moving production to India
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... n-to-india
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