Kaveri & Aero-Engine: News & Discussion

[Vayutuvan]

I mean we have built test beds before and Tajas program itself required a lot of instrumentation.

That unintentional spelling mistake gave me an idea. We should name the facility where Tejas is made as "Tejas Tajas" a la Newport News Shipbuilding.

[williams]

https://www.financialexpress.com/busine ... a-2567952/

This was reported in 2022. Hopefully there is more progress now. Some quotes from the article:

As of 2015, media reports indicated that India had a few FTBs, operated by various defence research laboratories such as the Centre for Airborne Systems (CABS). They were usually flown by qualified Indian Air Force (IAF) test crews from the Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) in Bangalore. The media had then reported that India had modified HS-748s, Dornier Do-228s and a single modified IL-76 as test beds. The IL-76 was and is still based at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Moscow.

The Hawker Siddeley HS- 748- a British-origin, twin-engine turboprop military transport and freighter has been used to test several indigenous systems like the Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) and Multi-Sensor Warning System (MSWS) for standalone testing and evaluation. The ground support equipment and an experienced maintenance crew support the HS-748 -based light Test Facility. India also possesses Dornier Do-228s as test beds. These aircraft are manufactured by the Transport Aircraft Division of HAL, located at Kanpur. DRDO received the first modified Dornier in May 2014 and has been used for testing aerospace systems.

Embraer was one of the candidates that was considered for this. However, since the test and design data of an imported aircraft are not shared owing to the proprietary clause, India would not have been able to fly our own FTB without knowing these details. The plan to import was dropped, and Do-228 became the automatic choice.

However, India still lacks a high-altitude flight test facility with an FTB for its military afterburning turbofan projects. This has led to the country being dependent on France and Russia for testing experimental engine programs, rendering them vulnerable to external espionage. GTRE and DRDO have been insisting on acquiring a capable indigenous FTB.

The issue in acquiring a new test bed seems to be one of intention. Procuring IL-76 or any other commercially available plane to be used as a Flying Test Bed (FTB) is not a very difficult task. The fact that the country still does not have it shows the lack of seriousness on the part of the Ministry of Defence (MoD). Over the last 30 years, the MoD has not even invested in fundamental testing facilities in the nation. With such support, the expectation from engineers and scientists to build a workable engine on a tight budget seems unrealistic.

There still is a future, though. The DRDO, which currently does not have a supersonic FTB, is aggressively following the project to acquire one. To look into the possibilities for obtaining the same, a committee has already been set up. The committee has representatives from the IAF and HAL, alongside members from DRDO. While Sukhoi is leading the fray, the committee is also considering the advantages of MiG 29.

[bala]

This report in "India News analysis" claims that the tests for Kaveri in Russia are going favorably well with another few more hours left. After this inflight testing can be done.


Today - India’s indigenous Kaveri engine, developed by DRDO, has officially been cleared for inflight testing - a major breakthrough in the nation’s journey towards self-reliant aero-engine development. Set to power the upcoming stealth UCAV Ghatak, the dry Kaveri is now ready to soar.

Flight Testing clearance for Kaveri Engine
May 28, 2025
youtube.com/watch?v=bQ6H0A9C5OU

copy url to browser and watch, tis in Hindi.

// so far the engines are performing with no major issue. This is good news. Some inflight testing (on ghatak) and on towards certification for the engine.
// getting a Indian high altitude flight test bed for further refinement, and uprated engines is a must. Babus in MoD must sanction more funds.

[williams]

This report in "India News analysis" claims that the tests for Kaveri in Russia are going favorably well with another few more hours left. After this inflight testing can be done.


Today - India’s indigenous Kaveri engine, developed by DRDO, has officially been cleared for inflight testing - a major breakthrough in the nation’s journey towards self-reliant aero-engine development. Set to power the upcoming stealth UCAV Ghatak, the dry Kaveri is now ready to soar.

Flight Testing clearance for Kaveri Engine
May 28, 2025
youtube.com/watch?v=bQ6H0A9C5OU

copy url to browser and watch, tis in Hindi.

// so far the engines are performing with no major issue. This is good news. Some inflight testing (on ghatak) and on towards certification for the engine.
// getting a Indian high altitude flight test bed for further refinement, and uprated engines is a must. Babus in MoD must sanction more funds.

Bala sir, this is not new news. It is the same that is explained by GTRE director Dr. Ramana Murthy in Aero India. Basically the KDE for UCAV is near ready. The current Kaveri 1.0 needs to improve the T/W ratio from 6.5 to 8.0 to power the Tejas 1A series and then we need Kaveri 2.0 for Tejas 2.0 and AMCA. Sounds like there is renewed momentum to get all these projects streamlined with some funding and infusion of needed tools. However, we need to be a bit patient, and make sure there is sustained funding to see the light of the day on a complex decade long development effort. I still believe we are 8-10 years away from Kaveri 1.0 replacing current GE F404 engines and perhaps Kaveri 2.0 will replace F414 in few years after that. If things happen before that, it will be a huge surprise. Until then we need to swallow the pride and dance with the Western and Russian OEMs. We have to walk the thin rope of geopolitics to keep the supply lines running. It is a hard pill to swallow, but our patience will be well rewarded in the future. Instead of having some Chinese style paper-tiger propaganda mall, we will have true sixth generation end-end aeronautic ecosystem.

[basant]

...Kaveri 1.0 needs to improve the T/W ratio from 6.5 to 8.0

AFAIK, this does not give full picture. What happens if TWR is 6.5? It puts certain constraints. So what are they? Are they worth consideration? What's the point of having an engine with great TWR and is not supplied at all? The airframe is useless unless there is any engine. And if they pull plugs/strings on engines, they can AND will do for fighters, armaments AND upgrades. So one has to take a strategic and pragmatic view. Which is largely (or contextually) absent in the IAF.

See today's news. The IAF chief again. 'Not a single project completed on time'. That's rich coming from IAF that took eternity testing MRCA and AJT. Moreover, it also shows he does not seem to read news on complex projects even in Western countries, F-35 being a classic case.

Over the years I have come to the sad conclusion that to improve matters, acquisitions should be handed over to Civil servants rather than services. The Services can give feedback and input, but the final say should not be with them.

[bala]

On IAF complaints:

The trouble with Aero industry at least for fighter jets has been zilch products so far for India. Only Tejas is the first foray, we had HF-24 previously which was unceremoniously shut down due to lack of engine. Engine is still a steep learning curve for India. Tejas is hostage to the GE engine and its roll out is stymied by GE supply chain issues. This is a journey that needs patience since India does not have an alternate to GE engines.

The major thing about R&D and products is it is a journey fraught with many unknowns. You first need a working model however small and deficit in features. You then build upon it iteratively in the next gens. Nurturing this process requires huge money investment and patience. Also it requires joint ownership between product consumer and producer. The Indian Navy long ago realized the challenge of ships. They took charge for all ship design and iteratively improved upon them. Now they have complete control over things like nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers let alone frigates and destroyers. The only thing beyond for IN is conventional engines for ships which again they are working upon. India already has nuke power engine. A concerted effort by IN would yield such engines eventually.

With IAF and IA there is no ownership of their products, they are mostly stand-off on such things. When will they own aircrafts, tanks, guns etc? A favorite line is the following: we asked for xx features for say an aircraft. It took HAL/DRDO 20 yrs to realize xx features, but the rest of the world is onto xx+yy features, we need to add yy features besides xx. HAL/DRDO says that will be delayed a further 10 yrs. So now it is emergency purchase of some videshi stuff which has xx + yy* features. The yy* features are unproven with huge integration problems which the vendor will take 10 yrs to fix. We are into this merry-go-round without proper advancement of local industry. Why can't they make do with sightly less features in products, use them provide feedback get the darn thing fixed and robust enough, then go onto the next set of features. This is what HAL wants to do: Tejas, Tejas MK2 then AMCA. But IAF wants AMCA now without realizing the journey in R&D is required.

[williams]

...Kaveri 1.0 needs to improve the T/W ratio from 6.5 to 8.0

AFAIK, this does not give full picture. What happens if TWR is 6.5? It puts certain constraints. So what are they? Are they worth consideration? What's the point of having an engine with great TWR and is not supplied at all? The airframe is useless unless there is any engine. And if they pull plugs/strings on engines, they can AND will do for fighters, armaments AND upgrades. So one has to take a strategic and pragmatic view. Which is largely (or contextually) absent in the IAF.

See today's news. The IAF chief again. 'Not a single project completed on time'. That's rich coming from IAF that took eternity testing MRCA and AJT. Moreover, it also shows he does not seem to read news on complex projects even in Western countries, F-35 being a classic case.

Over the years I have come to the sad conclusion that to improve matters, acquisitions should be handed over to Civil servants rather than services. The Services can give feedback and input, but the final say should not be with them.

You are right. But IAF is used to buying off the self mature western products. They are expecting the same from local production houses and are not ready to participate in iterative development. It is more of a culture thing. We need all our Sarkar orgs + ASTE and IAF to become "learning organizations". They need to be open to some level of immaturity and give some chance for these local products. I think some training and communication between these orgs will work better is my guess.

[bala]

I know Kaveri is finishing up test flying at Gromov in Russia. Can we get Russia to fit this into a Mig-29 aircraft and test fly the engine for some time for full certification. Putin saab may agree and have the Mig Chaps help out.

[chetak]

I know Kaveri is finishing up test flying at Gromov in Russia. Can we get Russia to fit this into a Mig-29 aircraft and test fly the engine for some time for full certification. Putin saab may agree and have the Mig Chaps help out.

bala saar,

especially if we provide the airframe and cover all costs

[williams]

I know Kaveri is finishing up test flying at Gromov in Russia. Can we get Russia to fit this into a Mig-29 aircraft and test fly the engine for some time for full certification. Putin saab may agree and have the Mig Chaps help out.

What is being tested is KDE (Kaveri Derivative Engine) for the stealth UCAV program. It sounds like we might see its first full model flight with the KDE this year. There is also rumors floating around that there is approval for current Kaveri with a better AB to fly with one of the older Tejas LSP models. Sounds like incremental work to reduce weight will go on for some time until the required T/W ratio is achieved. I am going to write it now, but it will be written in the history books that DJTs dumbo tweets immensely helped boost the sluggish Indian MIC into a potent one

[Kailash]

Has the full scale development of Ghatak UCAV been sponsored yet?

We should immediately fly what we have, while trying to improve it. Is the A/B integration done??

[fanne]

yt rumour has it that PV-5 and one more lca PV will be used to qualify it.

[williams]

Has the full scale development of Ghatak UCAV been sponsored yet?

We should immediately fly what we have, while trying to improve it. Is the A/B integration done??

Confirmed report is Ghatak UCAV platform is in advanced stage of flying with Kaveri KDE - watch the latest interview with Dr Kota Ji (he calls them flying wing).

A/B integration, weight reduction and building more testing infrastructure is being funded as we speak, but it is going to take longer as it is more complex and SDRE scientists don't have a luxury of failure. Sadly, we still have both domestic and foreign wolfs to pound on it and derail everything. Only good news (or bad news) is GE is still struggling with supply chain issues and hence we are not going to get engines in the speed at which IAF is expecting. That is good news because people are forced to fast track Kaveri program.

[pravula]

yt rumour has it that PV-5 and one more lca PV will be used to qualify it.

Qualify what? manned or unmanned? AFAIK, the urgency seems to be with UCAVs of all types, not manned. Which is good news if the main issue is still with the AB section

[drnayar]

I know Kaveri is finishing up test flying at Gromov in Russia. Can we get Russia to fit this into a Mig-29 aircraft and test fly the engine for some time for full certification. Putin saab may agree and have the Mig Chaps help out.

bala saar,

especially if we provide the airframe and cover all costs

I think the erstwhile mig corp was merged to the sukhoi

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... -merge-uac

[Kailash]

yt rumour has it that PV-5 and one more lca PV will be used to qualify it.

No takeoff without A/B. Either too many milestones have been kept well hidden, or we are still a few years off. It will be interesting to wartime a scenario where 404 supplies stop abruptly and we are forced to integrate an underpowered, over weight Kaveri on to Tejas pronto/stat. Sadly we have neither the production capacity nor the imagination...

Quick question - does certification of KDE automatically certify the kaveri with A/B?

[fanne]

Certify the kde engine without afterburner. Basically that plane cannot take lca to fight (it does not have an afterburner) and has thrust of 48kn. 404 has 52 dry and 80 something wet. Lca pv-5 etc will be used to certify this engine, then it will be used in ghatak.
Certifying kde should help the normal Kaveri that has dry thrust of 52 and current wet stops at 73, which is being reworked with help of Brahmos corp to push is to 80 something.

[Aditya_V]

Fanne in Indian conditions I think F404 thrust drops to 48kn dry and 78 wet

[williams]

Certify the kde engine without afterburner. Basically that plane cannot take lca to fight (it does not have an afterburner) and has thrust of 48kn. 404 has 52 dry and 80 something wet. Lca pv-5 etc will be used to certify this engine, then it will be used in ghatak.
Certifying kde should help the normal Kaveri that has dry thrust of 52 and current wet stops at 73, which is being reworked with help of Brahmos corp to push is to 80 something.

Certifying KDE (GTX-35VS) is a very important as of now. Flying the Ghatak with it will provide a lot a learning and I am sure some of the weight reduction strategies employed in the KDE will be further refined as the platform starts flight trails. Something is cooking with the Brahmos A/B section. There were news about its success with additional thrust of 28-30 kN. But all such news got suppressed when GE-414 potential deal was announced.

[Cybaru]

For those clamoring for American deals. Here is another action to their closest ally!

https://ottawacitizen.com/public-servic ... u-s-canada

Spare parts for Canada's F-35 fleet will be controlled by the U.S. - The parts will be stored at Quebec and Alberta military bases but still under American ownership.

No one will part with hot core. Try, but focus on getting Kaveri mated with hot core from somewhere else.

Fix Kaveri current version for Mk1 and Mk1A

Scale up Kaveri-mk2 for LCA Mk2

Scale up Kaveri-mk3 for AMCA and TEDBF.

Stock up on hot cores and make everything else at home. This way the risk is far far reduced. I believe this is going to be our only way out.

Get a flying test bed and continue our own hot core replacement work in parallel.

[Kailash]

Even if Kaveri weight is brought to say under 1100 kg with a 81KN wet thrust, with the flat rating, kaveri is nothing to be scoffed at. What we need is integration, even if it finally leads us only to a less powerful export variant of Tejas.

A slightly heavier, similar thrust Tejas doesn't sound so bad, despite some logistical/teething issues, it will gives us huge strategic advantages. I hope brahmos A/B is successful and kaveri is integrated quickly on to some airframe - Tejas or mig29 - doesn't matter. Anything is progress from where India is today.

[fanne]

The nature of air war is changing.

We are in our airspace, fire BVR, fire long range Air to surface munition, patrol your own skies under the control of your SAM and radar coverage.

So tell me how disadvantages slightly underpowered LCA MK1a with Kaveri will be? Even a fast transport plane is this condition will do OK.

This is not to say that tomorrow, the nature of war changes again and we have turning fights and you need decent engine.

But

For now we need numbers, make LCAMK1a with underpowered kaveri (it has to be reliable and safe though, minimum condition). Get in number, validate kaveri from operational deployment, refin it and in second upgrade, perhaps put a Kaveri that is as good as F404 IN 20.

Same Kaveri can get better to power MK2 (MK2 is 4 years away), just like F414 does and eventually AMCA engine.

For now I guess Kaveri (underpowered or not) will do wonders to LCA mk1a that is fully indigenous integrated with Gandiva, EW and air to ground munition. If it has to remain on our side of the border, 10-20% underpowered engine would not hurt, but that extra ultra modern airframe will do wonders to our fighting capability.

[Tanaji]

IAF simply wont sign off on anything that doesnt exceed F404 at a minimum citing their pilots safety is on the line. It is pointless to ask for otherwise and they are justified in that.

It is also the result of IAFs short sightedness through the years of acting as a customer and not owning anything.

[fanne]

Pilot safety has very little to do with 10-20% lesser thrust and 100% to do with engine robustness and reliability. An underpowered engine can be robust and reliable, often engine are overbuilt because of safety reasons resulting in lower performance.

[Yagnasri]

There is nothing justified. While human life is vital and does not need to be preserved for any significant reason, Kaveri is one of the most important things for our defence. If the IAF does not understand it, it shall be made to understand it.

[Yagnasri]

An underpowered engine can be robust and reliable, often engine are overbuilt because of safety reasons resulting in lower performance.

I think our DRDO may already be overbuilding things for that reason only.

[Tanaji]

Pilot safety has very little to do with 10-20% lesser thrust and 100% to do with engine robustness and reliability. An underpowered engine can be robust and reliable, often engine are overbuilt because of safety reasons resulting in lower performance.

Tejas is a platform to do certain missions which require certain weight. It assumed certain thrust was available : having a lesser TW ratio means either it can’t carry the required armaments reducing its effectivity - less A-A missiles as an example or it affects its performance in parameters such as time to target, turn ratios etc. Both can be fatal for the pilot … hence the comment on pilot safety.

There are no easy options here: we could have gone for EJ200 but that’s hindsight. Russian engines were never an option.

In the end IAF is responsible- they bet the farm on the MRCA tamasha at the cost of strangling investment in anything else and we are where we are.

[williams]

Here are some historical notes on Kaveri.

1986 - Initial Idea conceived
1989 - Fullscale development approved - 382.81 crore - 88.85 million USD
1995 - +6 years - Kabini core first run
1996 - Trail run of first complete Kaveri prototype
1998 - +9 years Kaveri engine completes five ground tests at GTRE
1999 - US sanctions
2002 - +3 years IAF cancels plan to use Kaveri for Tejas (at this time there were blade issues and FADEC problems. Some Snecma help was sought, but nothing came to fruition. 

2003 - F404 engine chosen for Tejas LSPs
2004 - Kaveri failed High Altitude tests in Russia

2010 - + 6 years - High altitude tests succeeded.
The engine weighed 1235 kg (improved from 1423 kg) - The engine could produce 70 - 75 kN, but IAF desired 90-95 kN

2013 - Snecma co-dev plan abandoned

2016 - Snecma certified the airworthiness of Kaveri but did not provide any technical help

2021 - +5 years after seeing Snecma's true colors - DRDO Could manage some Tech breakthroughs. 

1 Isothermal forging tech mastered for all five stages of HPC disks

2. Single-crystal casting tech achieved by DMRL

2022 - DMRL - Nickel bas super-alloy SN 742 developed.

- Now, in the high altitude tests, the core engine achieved 48.5 kN (from the previous 46 kN)

2024 - Weight now reduced to 1180 kg - overall improvement in metallurgy, FADEC - K9+ standard

2024 - Brahmos 29 kN A/B section ready and K9+ can now produce
79 kN thrust (F404 thrust 78.7 KN - but 1024 Kg weight)

2025 - 49 kN thrust (expecting 52 kN),
T/W ratio 6.5 - (Need 8.0)
TET 2000 K (2300 K expected) - 

- New tech added
Blisk design, 
bolt-less blade arrangement in the turbine, 
and Powdered metallurgy disk in HPT.

Looking at the above, there has been continuous development despite a shoestring budget. The bottom line is today, we are on the verge of getting a complete 4th-gen engine, and we need to start the program for 5th-gen tech. No foreign OEM (including Russians) is going to give us crown jewel technologies for money. We need to invest our own money and pay our scientists and engineers to develop technologies. Private-sector participation and private-sector R&D investment need to be encouraged. Public sector undertakings need more training in program and project management. We need to retain talent and nurture more. Service chiefs and leaders need to be more aware of production and R&D challenges and will have to allocate some resources to agile/spiral development and feedback loops.

[Kailash]

The nature of air war is changing.

Fanne ji, I'm in 100% agreement. Kinetic performance like speed and maneuveability though vital, is not everything in today's war. Speed of fighter design can't catchup with speed of missile or radar development, or speed of EW development. Beauty is it doesn't have to.

SAMs, loitering munition or a UCAV is a much more credible threat to a fighter than air to air missiles. Even in air battles things are increasingly decided by BVR engagements, guided by better radars, networking, ECM/ECCM etc.

[A Deshmukh]

For Testing:
Kaveri + Tejas LSPs (unmanned remotely piloted/ and later manned).
even if a few unmanned LSP Tejas crashes, its okay now.

For production:
start with Ghatak UCAV.
depending on parameters achieved then mate with Tejas Mk-K

[pravula]

Basic question, can an Indian company license Kaveri IP? Is there a process for this? I have seen DRDO license other technologies out, but whats the framework?

[maitya]

Have added some of my comments/views (in blue):

Here are some historical notes on Kaveri.
<snip>

2002 - +3 years IAF cancels plan to use Kaveri for Tejas (at this time there were blade issues and FADEC problems. Some Snecma help was sought, but nothing came to fruition. 

2003 - F404 engine chosen for Tejas LSPs. Initial TD and LSPs were flown on F2J3 versions (of 79KN thrust class).
2004 - Kaveri failed High Altitude tests in Russia

2005-7 - GE came up with IN20 version of F404, of 84-85KN Thrust-class - which was selected for all future Tejas.
2010 - + 6 years - High altitude tests succeeded - Design dry thrust rating of 51KN achieved.
The engine weighed 1235 kg (improved from 1423 kg) - The engine could produce 70 - 75 kN, but IAF desired 90-95 kN
- I think the requirement remained at 81-82KN (Wet Thrust), though F404-IN20 were already at 84KN level.
<snip>

2016 - GE delivers the last IN20 version (from an order of 75, incl F2J3s) and stops production of F404-IN20 due to lack of any further orders.
2021 - +5 years after seeing Snecma's true colors - DRDO Could manage some Tech breakthroughs. 

1 Isothermal forging tech mastered for all five stages of HPC disks

2. Single-crystal casting tech achieved by DMRL

Well SC technology (second Gen SX, CMSX4) was already used in the Sakti engines a few years earlier - that got adapted for KDE usage maybe around 2021-22. Ofcourse, there's a world of diff between what gets used in Shakti vs what may have gotten into KDE.
2022 - DMRL - Nickel bas super-alloy SN 742 developed.

- Now, in the high altitude tests, the core engine achieved 48.5 kN (from the previous 46 kN)

2024 - Weight now reduced to 1180 kg - overall improvement in metallurgy, FADEC - K9+ standard

2024 - Brahmos 29 kN A/B section ready and K9+ can now produce
79 kN thrust (F404 thrust 78.7 KN - but 1024 Kg weight)
- IN20 version produces ~85KN, but are non flat-rated
2025 - 49 kN thrust (expecting 52 kN),
T/W ratio 6.5 - (Need 8.0)
TET 2000 K (2300 K expected) - 
Since When? Frankly if they have been able to breach the 1500deg C TeT mark, that'd be brilliant
- New tech added
Blisk design, 
bolt-less blade arrangement in the turbine, 
and Powdered metallurgy disk in HPT.
I doubt these have been implemented yet - as if they have been indeed achieved these, the weight would definitely be at sub-1T level. Yes the Fan may have gotten blisks, but I doubt the HPC stages (atleast the 1st three) have got blisks yet.
<snip>

[Cain Marko]

The engine weighed 1235 kg (improved from 1423 kg) - The engine could produce 70 - 75 kN, but IAF desired 90-95
1 Isothermal forging tech mastered for all five stages of HPC disks

2. Single-crystal casting tech achieved by DMRL

Well SC technology (second Gen SX, CMSX4) was already used in the Sakti engines a few years earlier - that got adapted for KDE usage maybe around 2021-22. Ofcourse, there's a world of diff between what gets used in Shakti vs what may have gotten into KDE.
2022 - DMRL - Nickel bas super-alloy SN 742 developed.

- Now, in the high altitude tests, the core engine achieved 48.5 kN (from the previous 46 kN)

2024 - Weight now reduced to 1180 kg - overall improvement in metallurgy, FADEC - K9+ standard

K9+ can now produce
79 kN thrust (F404 thrust 78.7 KN - but 1024 Kg weight)
- [
2025 - 49 kN thrust (expecting 52 kN),
T/W ratio 6.5 - (Need 8.0)
TET 2000 K (2300 K expected) - 
]Since

Maityaji,
If current Kaveri is close to 50/80kgf at 1024kg weight, it is already close to baseline RD33. In fact wrt tet and weight, it's ahead.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klimov_RD-33

Maybe it's time to stick it into a modified 2 engine Tejas/orca/tedbf airframe that's about 10 tons? That'll provide better twr than rafale and very close to Mig29, better than 1.0, quite respectable for 4 5 gen fighter.

[suryag]

We do have the option to reduce the ballast weight to accommodate the extra weight from Kaveri of course that would mean quite a lot of work but that’s all known stuff

[maitya]

<snip>

Maityaji,
If current Kaveri is close to 50/80kgf at 1024kg weight, it is already close to baseline RD33. In fact wrt tet and weight, it's ahead.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klimov_RD-33

Maybe it's time to stick it into a modified 2 engine Tejas/orca/tedbf airframe that's about 10 tons? That'll provide better twr than rafale and very close to Mig29, better than 1.0, quite respectable for 4 5 gen fighter.

Ofcourse, Theoretically yes doable - but practically, where's such a program (2 engine Tejas etc) in the first place - betw this mythical ORCA is anything but twin-engine Tejas, it's just de-navalised TEDBF (in the lines of Rafale-M -> Rafale-C program), if any that is.

IMO, the focus needs to be only towards flight-certifying either original K9 or the KDE+A/B variant on a TD/PV/LSP platform - all talks about using it in various platforms, comes after that.
Ofcourse, incremental improvements can continue to happen in parallel to this certifying program.

[williams]

This is for the 5th gen tech.

GTRE is seeking collaboration with foreign OEM on everything RED. Looks like they are good with the BLUE and few things are with the academia.

I see there is weakness WRT HPC, HPT and burner. I am not sure any OEM will part with that part of their IP at any cost. Time will tell. But this is the status as of Jan 2025 and I have not seen any OEM coming forward with a reasonable offer.

BTW, I will still not believe the Chinese have mastered the above and moved on to 6th gen tech.

[Prem Kumar]

This ToT-based-Turbofan is a slow-motion train wreck. Everyone knows how it will end (key technologies will be withheld at the last moment) but none can stop it. That's because the PMO is unwilling/uncaring to create a program of national importance

I think even the GTRE wants foreign collaboration because they are too lazy to do this in-house

[Jay]

I think even the GTRE wants foreign collaboration because they are too lazy to do this in-house

They want foreign collab because they learned "foreign" is the only word that will move funds from GOI and commitment from Indian armed forces. Unless we launch a program like IGMDP to create a jet engine eco system, nothing will change.

[williams]

I think even the GTRE wants foreign collaboration because they are too lazy to do this in-house

They want foreign collab because they learned "foreign" is the only word that will move funds from GOI and commitment from Indian armed forces. Unless we launch a program like IGMDP to create a jet engine eco system, nothing will change.

Ex-ACM Bhadauria comments on key issues. Seems like funds are being returned and emphasis on private sector participation. PSUs have a efficiency and transparency problem. That said, I agree we need a national mission.