Operation Sindoor - Post Conflict Analysis

[williams]

@williams there is also GDP fiscal multiplier of defense spending.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... t-economy/

It’s not guns vs growth. Spending on desi defence tech can boost economy
May 19, 2025, 8:46 PM IST Prasanna Tantri and Aditya Kuvalekar in TOI Editorials, India, TOI

Yes I understand that. The frustration is that, we take quite a long time before we decide to go the domestic route for big ticket items. Also we have multiple gateways before the money can actually flow. Starting from identification of requirement to contract award there are 9 steps with excruciating sub-steps. Some of them are necessary, I get that. But this is where we give room to delayed decisions and allow import lobby to add wrenches. End of the day a lot of money allocated goes without being spent.

[gakakkad]

What's the difference between hanood/Yehuds and momeens ?

We blew up their 12+ airbases and beat the shit out of them and have 15x the economy and growing . We are dhotishivering .

They got their Musharraf handed over ,lost water supply and have no economic growth . They promote themselves to field marshall

[bala]

Many are wanting details of the extent of damage caused by India on Pak. Aadi Achint tackles the subject in this revealing YT. New Details Emerge India's Op Sindoor, Pakistan Airbases Nukes, Indian Air Force Brahmos. Pak can't hide anything more. There are tenders put out by Pak land on repairs to many areas - 21 sites are named in the tender! Mianwali airbase is one of them hitherto unknown/unmentioned before. Sukkur was struck, with chinese drones in them. Satellite photos are revealing these.


New Details Emerge India's Op Sindoor, Pakistan Airbases Nukes, Indian Air Force Brahmos I Aadi

[VinodTK]

Ok IMO let us not compare ourselves with Russia, they sacrificed 1 million people and still have no exit strategy.

To get to 120 B we need to increase the defence allocation by just 4.5 percent. Can we cut some of the wasteful subsidies and central schemes without a lot of political repercussion? Sure we can. Our politicos need to decide that. Babus are just paper pushers (sometimes pencil pushers but that is a different issue). The real power is with the political establishment folks. On the top of it, DM is returning money back every year due to indecision and lethargy everywhere.

I was not comparing India with Russia, used it as an example.
Personally I do not go by the number 1 million Russians killed (unconfirmed numbers from the west; same people say India lost 7 planes and never talk about Pak losses).
As per AI overview:
BBC News Russian and Mediazona estimated 170,000–246,000 Russian servicemen and contractors killed by the end of May 2025, with 111,368 confirmed by name.

I agree with all the challenges you mentioned, it is the job / responsibility of the government to fix existing problems. If this Govt. can't address the challenges, imagine what is next in line to follow them.

[drnayar]

@williams there is also GDP fiscal multiplier of defense spending.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... t-economy/

It’s not guns vs growth. Spending on desi defence tech can boost economy
May 19, 2025, 8:46 PM IST Prasanna Tantri and Aditya Kuvalekar in TOI Editorials, India, TOI

Yes I understand that. The frustration is that, we take quite a long time before we decide to go the domestic route for big ticket items. Also we have multiple gateways before the money can actually flow. Starting from identification of requirement to contract award there are 9 steps with excruciating sub-steps. Some of them are necessary, I get that. But this is where we give room to delayed decisions and allow import lobby to add wrenches. End of the day a lot of money allocated goes without being spent.

Cant agree more., the billions spend on the grounded Apaches are case in point., could we not have ordered more LCH and Rudras for the same money ?!!

every dollar spend inside the country generates many times that value and also builds up competencies and capabilities. , the revenue also brings back several times that amount to the exchequer

can we just ban imports of foreign weapons .. lol

[bala]

can we just ban imports of foreign weapons .. lol

Dr. Nayar saab, if you look carefully at the winning picture: Indian Akash Teer - lots of work went into software by our geeks, Armed forces, integration with circa Russian guns/anti-aircraft guns and S-400 besides Indian Akash and others. The drones are also from Israel, with Indrajaal being Indian though components are imported. The SU-30MKI is half indian in terms of avionics/control systems, brahmos integration (S. Pillai's project). Missile Brahmos and Crystal Maze are two systems in collaboration with Russia and Israel, adopted and modified by India. Lots of foreign stuff with heavy Indian involvement in enhancing things.

In the Navy, the design bureau of Navy started with British, Russian ship designs and modified/adapted them. The engines continue to be imported. India's aircraft carrier Vikrant also moved from Russia to Indian design with GE engines.

India is at stage wherein it learned from other systems and got to a position where it is today. Ab initio projects like Tejas, Helos etc are also not quite there, we depend on engines from GE and Safran. India is not quite 100 % in all areas and the learning curve is rather steep. Banning imports is simply not feasible. India needs these videshi maal to maintain a reasonable leg up on Pak and China. Collaborative projects with Russian, Israel, France have yielded the best results.

Let me make it very clear I am for indigenous design and manufacture of weapons systems for India.

[RCase]

India was able to hit runways across multiple airbases simultaneously with devastating effect. Would it have been prudent to have done this as the first step to prevent the Pak aircraft from taking to the air? This would have set off sufficient panic before striking the terror outfits. This would have curtailed their options to flying drones or missiles; both of which was well defended by the AD system. Would have given IAF air dominance and supremacy.

There was no need to take the moral high ground that we were only hitting terror targets and not military/ civilian installations. Anyway, the PAF would have been able to repair their runways in due course of time.

[S_Madhukar]

Something I am interested in is how quickly these fakirs are able to repair their bases and get back online. I suspect they are more like their Middle Eastern bros who can pay $$ to get stuff built from their friends but can’t really service them due to their low industrial base and skills. Which means we must not tie ourselves up!

[vera_k]

Islamabad Floats Over 30 Emergency Tenders Worth Millions to Repair Military Bases Damaged in Operation Sindoor

[bala]

I am concerned with the outcome of Sindoor in the sense that the two opponents of India have to be dealt with - China and US. Both these nations are aligning against India no matter how you see it. There may be some fractional advantage here and there but make no mistake these two are gunning against India. India's rise is worrying the heck out of them. At the rate of India's rise, which will be steady and ongoing for a long time, India may overtake both China and the US over time (btw at a Singapore Economic conference sometime ago this was predicted). India also has certain advantages like young population dividend, skilling, education, increasing infrastructure, a growing capable military and so on.

China is currently weak due to various factors including their prime Emperor Xi at the helm. But China will use Pak to the hilt and also BD to whack India as much as possible. The only way out for India is to turn around and whack China, Pak is nuisance and should be broken up mercilessly. Taking on Tibet should be the prime goal of India. This has to be done without a tinge of fear by India, a quick decisive battle with all kinds of precautions built in. Maybe RAW needs to infiltrate Tibet with tibetans trained for creating chaos and mayhem so that the IA can walk into Tibet easily and secure the place. 50 missiles ruined Pak in Sindoor, just imagine what 100-500 missiles will do to Tibet. India's Akash Teer must be scaled up big time and shoot down any chinese ding dong missile and/or drones. Their aircrafts will be unable to take off from Tibet after precise runway missile attack. India can jam Beidou signals. A lot has been learnt about China maal from Sindoor. The current 1 child populated PLA army has no will to fight - they are glued to their ipads playing video games in their spare time. Many of them are unfamiliar with their jee whiz equipment which is not exactly reliable or robust in actual warfare. The less said about their wonderbar aircrafts.

The US is acting funny and propping up Pak after Sindoor. The US is also dealing with Iran and houthis. They need Pak to stage many things in the area. Furthermore they have to deal with China at some time and Myanmar is important for the rare earths (which are going to China). So BD is another area US might park themselves. This has consequences for the Indian Navy which is the boss of the Indian ocean. On the trade front, US wants to infiltrate India with their diary and agro GMO stuff to ruin Indian native animals, native seed crops of India and make India depend on Monsanto Inc. India has to ban GMO outright like Russia has done. The US is also trying to clip the influence of Russia with India. Of course don't rule out any collusion that the US and China might have against India. India has to reconsider Quad.

India can choose to ignore these warning signs, but it is best to chart out a course that does not depend on these two nations. Internal security is a must and bolstering the nation's armed forces without any dependency on either of the two nations. Politicos and the people must be educated about the impending threats the two nations pose towards India. India has to go it alone, without anything that depends on the US or China. All the Chinese imports into India must be re-examined perhaps curtailed ($100 B deficit with China) and China investments into India have to be double checked verified and not dominate any sector.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Kuntal__biswas/status/1932798435163361601 ---> You don’t set up a tent just to fill a small crater in an open field. Sending prayers for those buried six meters deep beneath the earth.

[Amber G.]

Weeks after 26 Indians were murdered by Pakistan, reports say Trump is to host the Pak Army chief, while U.S Central Command General calls Pakistan a “phenomenal partner”.

American duplicity on terror has never been clearer.

[A_Gupta]

Swarajya Magazine has an article by Jaideep Mazumdar on how the Bangladesh Army Chief foiled Yunous' plan to trigger skirmishes on the Bangla-India border to help Pakistan (and also distract Banglas from internal troubles).

[Aditya_V]

Weeks after 26 Indians were murdered by Pakistan, reports say Trump is to host the Pak Army chief, while U.S Central Command General calls Pakistan a “phenomenal partner”.

American duplicity on terror has never been clearer.

I have a feeling this deeply connected to near future action against Iran.

[Deans]

India was able to hit runways across multiple airbases simultaneously with devastating effect. Would it have been prudent to have done this as the first step to prevent the Pak aircraft from taking to the air? This would have set off sufficient panic before striking the terror outfits. This would have curtailed their options to flying drones or missiles; both of which was well defended by the AD system. Would have given IAF air dominance and supremacy.

There was no need to take the moral high ground that we were only hitting terror targets and not military/ civilian installations. Anyway, the PAF would have been able to repair their runways in due course of time.

The moment you hit military targets, it is an act of war. Pak will immediately empty terrorist infrastructure (they would have done it if we fired missiles from 150km away instead of closer). We would not be in control of the escalation ladder and would lose international support. Pak will say this was an inconclusive fight - they retaliated against our missiles, after which there was a ceasefire. The objective of Op Sindhoor was to hit terrorist infrastructure and nothing else. That's why no country objected when we technically violated Pak territory on 7th and blew up a mosque.

[Roop]

I personally believe we lost a couple of jets...

Why? There is absolutely zero evidence for this conclusion in the public domain. In the absence of evidence, why do you believe this?

[Roop]

What's the difference between hanood/Yehuds and momeens ?

We are dhotishivering ... They promote themselves to field marshall

So true! We win the war, but weep and wail like losers. They lose the war, but strut and boast like winners.

[Roop]

...I'm appalled to see so many members speculating indian losses and second guessing what our strikes did and did not destroy. ... A month after the ops, we are still raking about imaginary IAF losses based on "feelings".

I hear you, bro. I agree and I'm frustrated as hell.

[Rishi]

Alan Warnes writes in his AFM article on the air battle:

1. Pak has 2 Cn satellites that are networked in their air defence set up so they knew immediately when our packages started gathering

2. Saab 2000 at Bholari was destroyed

3. Hangars were struck at Nur Khan (??)

4. D20 and Saab2000 provided critical jamming support that blinded our sensors

[Prem Kumar]

The moment you hit military targets, it is an act of war. Pak will immediately empty terrorist infrastructure (they would have done it if we fired missiles from 150km away instead of closer). We would not be in control of the escalation ladder and would lose international support. Pak will say this was an inconclusive fight - they retaliated against our missiles, after which there was a ceasefire. The objective of Op Sindhoor was to hit terrorist infrastructure and nothing else. That's why no country objected when we technically violated Pak territory on 7th and blew up a mosque.

Modi has now moved the line. From now on, our initial attack will not be restricted to terrorist launchpads. We will conduct SEAD first because the PM has made it clear that there is no difference between the Paki Army, the Paki State and Paki terrorists. So, to us, all are legit targets - including PAF airbases

I hope we take a leaf out of the Karate principle of Sen Sen no Sen, which means "initiate, wait for the response & hit back hard". That would be truly proactive. In practice, it would look like this

1) We get intel that some PoK launchpad is repopulated with jihadis. It can even be in interior camps like Bahawalpur
2) We pre-emptively strike and kill them
3) Pakis, who are itching to avenge their humiliation, will try to hit back
4) We go all out & destroy PAF overnight before they get a chance to scream & raise the nuclear bogey

Once PAF is reset to Zero, *everything* changes

[vinod]

There is news that Pakistan is increasing the defence budget by a whopping 20%. There are also rumours of possible chinesee HQ-19 and german IRST air defences that can apparently shoot down brahmos missile.

I hope India is proactive and as soon as they are deployed, they are taken out in a surprise attack, by whatever means. Let them repeatedly buy the same thing.

[LakshmanPST]

Operation Sindoor: Rafales, Sukhois Shot Down Pakistan’s JF-17s, Mirages In Dogfight; India Set To Reveal Smoking Gun Evidence

https://zeenews.india.com/india/operati ... 14636.html

"Sources inside India’s top defence establishment confirm that enemy aircraft shot down mid-air. India watched. Recorded. Tracked every move with AWACS and ground-based radar.

The wreckage? Scattered across the rugged terrain of PoK. And India has the evidence. High-resolution satellite images. Infrared signatures. Radio logs. Visual confirmation from cockpit feeds.

Soon, the truth will go public."

[madhu]

Amber G,

Here is the one more confirmation of Pak being nuke nude from x-Ambassador Deepak Vohra conforming your comments.
https://x.com/Tar21Operator/status/1933054345706418546

[bala]

I was watching mohartma C. Fair on a paki channel (the wire with Ali Chisti) interview. She believes the following:

1. India needlessly escalated the pahalgam terror by Op Sindoor, and thinks India should have approached UN (sounds similar to Neverwho who went to UN for Kashmore)
2. She believes that hadn't US intervened and stopped the conflict it would have been far worse for Pak
3. She mentioned that India provided off-ramps to Pak to stop at every step of the escalatory ladder.
4. She believes in nuke armed Pak ( yeah right!)
5. She believes China maal worked flawlessly (laughable)
6. She also believes in the Pak-China propagandu of Indian planes downed
7. She personally hates DJT, has a sticker on her small car in virginia.
8. She questions India claiming victory and seems okay with failed marshal for Pak.

Make no mistake mohartma C. Fair is part of the deep state and actually against India gaining any advantage militarily. It is clear she supports China + US against India using Pak munna. She is a venomous snake in prof skin.

[chetak]

I was watching mohartma C. Fair on a paki channel (the wire with Ali Chisti) interview. She believes the following:

1. India needlessly escalated the pahalgam terror by Op Sindoor, and thinks India should have approached UN (sounds similar to Neverwho who went to UN for Kashmore)
2. She believes that hadn't US intervened and stopped the conflict it would have been far worse for Pak
3. She mentioned that India provided off-ramps to Pak to stop at every step of the escalatory ladder.
4. She believes in nuke armed Pak ( yeah right!)
5. She believes China maal worked flawlessly (laughable)
6. She also believes in the Pak-China propagandu of Indian planes downed
7. She personally hates DJT, has a sticker on her small car in virginia.
8. She questions India claiming victory and seems okay with failed marshal for Pak.

Make no mistake mohartma C. Fair is part of the deep state and actually against India gaining any advantage militarily. It is clear she supports China + US against India using Pak munna. She is a venomous snake in prof skin.

bala saar,


she knows that the Op Sindoor story is neither situated in pak nor India but in amrika


she is an minor academic with a very abrasive personality, and she's also opinionated as hell


That is not the way to make friends, secure grants and hopefully continue research. One doubts if मोहतरमा is even tenured and she is also aging fast


BTW, मोहतरमा is at loggerheads with both the the paki army and the Indian army/MOD/MEA and she burnt those bridges pretty good with her entitled demands


In the end, this is her way of trying to make amends and hopefully clamber back on to the federal funds, and (ford, rand, rockefeller types) foundation funds fed gravy train.


In reality, she's just an academic version of the snake oil salesperson who is trying very hard to get noticed by the deep state

[SSridhar]

There is news that Pakistan is increasing the defence budget by a whopping 20%.

Yes, it has to cover all the losses after OP.Sindoor.

[Vayutuvan]

One doubts if मोहतरमा is even tenured and she is also aging fast

#chetak gaaru, Her designation is Assoc. Prof which means she is tenured. Asst. Profs. are not tenured. Some could be on TT (Tenure Track). Nobody who had a decent PhD would accepts a non-TT prof job unless they are desperate due to other circumstances like spouse being offered a TT or even Tenured job. This is called a two-body problem (OT here. Should go into "Understanding the US" thread).

[Roop]

There is news that Pakistan is increasing the defence budget by a whopping 20%.

They can increase it to whatever level they want, they are not the ones paying for it. Unkill is.

It's looking more and more like we are back to the days of the Cold War, at least as far as US-Pak are concerned.

[Aditya_V]

US needs Pakis again till the Iran conflict lasts, so next few months Asim Munir and Ergodan are the darlings of Washington DC. They are like a product made from Latex rubber.

[bala]

Needs to go into Iran News may not be appropriate here.

Tis AP news:

Israel attacks Iran’s nuclear and missile sites with explosions heard across Tehran

Iranian state television has confirmed the head of country’s paramilitary Revolutionary Guard, Gen. Hossein Salami, was killed in an Israeli strike Friday. An anchor read a statement saying: “The news of assassination and martyrdom of Gen. Hossein Salami was confirmed.”

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel targeted both nuclear and military sites, officials leading Iran’s nuclear program, and its ballistic missile arsenal.

https://apnews.com/article/iran-explosi ... b140297299

[Deans]

There is news that Pakistan is increasing the defence budget by a whopping 20%. There are also rumours of possible chinesee HQ-19 and german IRST air defences that can apparently shoot down brahmos missile.

I hope India is proactive and as soon as they are deployed, they are taken out in a surprise attack, by whatever means. Let them repeatedly buy the same thing.

Their inflation rate is close to 20%, one must look at the increase in Dollar terms. That might be misleading, in case Chinese hardware is shown
as loans and not part of the defence budget.

[Deans]

I was watching mohartma C. Fair on a paki channel (the wire with Ali Chisti) interview. She believes the following:

In the end, this is her way of trying to make amends and hopefully clamber back on to the federal funds, and (ford, rand, rockefeller types) foundation funds fed gravy train.


In reality, she's just an academic version of the snake oil salesperson who is trying very hard to get noticed by the deep state

Fair Mohartma is trying to ingratiate herself back in favor with Pak generals. Funding must have run out.

[williams]

I was watching mohartma C. Fair on a paki channel (the wire with Ali Chisti) interview. She believes the following:

In the end, this is her way of trying to make amends and hopefully clamber back on to the federal funds, and (ford, rand, rockefeller types) foundation funds fed gravy train.


In reality, she's just an academic version of the snake oil salesperson who is trying very hard to get noticed by the deep state

Fair Mohartma is trying to ingratiate herself back in favor with Pak generals. Funding must have run out.

Old deep state cold warriors are showing up. My thought is Pakis have sold out the Chinese to Khan's dictates in the in the wee hours of May 10th. Khan thinks Pakis are again up for sale. I am not sure how China is going to see that. If you look at the news, it is Pakis who are saying Chinese will give them more planes. But there is no official word from China. On the other hand Rubio got something substantial from Munir in exchange for a phone call to India to stop the hostilities.

We need to closely watch Modi sarkar's move in the G7 submit. First hint of India sending subtle signals is the WTO notification on May 12th. That means India is ready to walk away from any unfair trade deal. DJT's tariff bullying will fail in another few months as the consumer confidence goes down further. China will remind him about the 760 billion bond debt that can sink Uncles boat the moment China goes for some flamboyant selling. An unprecedented monetary crises is something DJT will avoid especially a year away from the mid terms. That is the time, we can take advantage of a better trade deal. Until then we just need to keep quiet and let the devil dance a bit. Manna will need water at some point. We'll see if a shortage of grass may give angry Abduls the courage fight the uniformed jihadis.

[Manish_P]

US needs Pakis again till the Iran conflict lasts, so next few months Asim Munir and Ergodan are the darlings of Washington DC. They are like a product made from Latex rubber.

Silicon. Not latex rubber.

Latex is simply thrown away after use.

Silicon can be washed again for reuse.

[Amber G.]

Few items for experts to comment (or not):
-Russia has Reportedly proposed Pakistan for a permanent membership in BRICS.
(India's approval is essential for Pakistan to join BRICS, as the group requires unanimous consensus for new members. My guess is India is unlikely to support this bid

[Amber G.]

Interesting item, I noticed .. Netanyahu has talked to Modi but not (yet) to Donald..

Links:https://x.com/narendramodi/status/1933524955934634271
The tweets from Netanyahu also cofirms ' He has talked to Modi, and *will* be talking soon Trump and Putin later..

[krithivas]

Oh God! The group now becomes PRICS? Gasp

Few items for experts to comment (or not):
-Russia has Reportedly proposed Pakistan for a permanent membership in BRICS.
(India's approval is essential for Pakistan to join BRICS, as the group requires unanimous consensus for new members. My guess is India is unlikely to support this bid

[krithivas]

It looks like internal saboteurs played a key role in the Israeli plot launching drones against Iranian sites. It does not take much to smuggle them into India and we have “willing-youtubers” to help adversaries for the right price. Something for Indian security to watch out for the next Pahalgam.

[Amber G.]

More interesting news - per reports - 5–7 Iranian missiles have landed on Israeli territory, I(Israeli media)
- Tump says he *did NOT invite' Paki Fraud Marshal.. (White House Source)

[Amber G.]

Also xpost

BIG(IMO) : India and Canada Reach Deal to Share Intelligence on Terrorism, Crime