International Aerospace Discussion - Jan 2018

[Rakesh]

Indonesia signs $10bn deal to buy 48 Turkish Kaan fighter jets
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/indo ... ghter-jets
11 June 2025

The landmark agreement includes co-production with Indonesia and marks Turkey’s largest-ever military export deal

[ritesh]

Bhailog...

https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1934494000226136413

Alpha Defense™
@alpha_defense
#RAF #F35B pilot reportedly refused to leave his jet after landing. He asked for a chair, rested beside the aircraft post formalities, and only later moved

would America or any other western country would have heeded to such petulant request? Why wasn't matching order given to britshit pilot?

[Rakesh]

Rafale Reemerges With Conformal Fuel Tanks
https://www.twz.com/air/rafale-reemerge ... fuel-tanks
12 June 2025

More than two decades after they were first trialled, a Rafale has reappeared with range- and payload-enhancing conformal fuel tanks.

[ernest]

Bhailog...

would America or any other western country would have needed to such petulant request? Why wasn't matching order given to britshit pilot?

What would we even gain from forcing the pilot to move? nothing more can be learnt from a few hours of looking around that we won't learn from LM directly during the next MRFA tender.

not much benefit vs the (small) diplomatic cost. In fact, accommodating the pilot, and building better connections during the exercises will help more in the long run. Showing them who is the boss (like the Chinese) doesn't sound useful given our long term diplomatic plans.

[ritesh]

Bhailog...

would America or any other western country would have needed to such petulant request? Why wasn't matching order given to britshit pilot?

What would we even gain from forcing the pilot to move? nothing more can be learnt from a few hours of looking around that we won't learn from LM directly during the next MRFA tender.

not much benefit vs the (small) diplomatic cost. In fact, accommodating the pilot, and building better connections during the exercises will help more in the long run. Showing them who is the boss (like the Chinese) doesn't sound useful given our long term diplomatic plans.

Pls understand the context...
1. Britshit F35 develops some technical snag, some say fuel level
2. Has to make emergency call to another country's airport
3. After touchdown, start behaving like lordship and not ready to comply with immigration procedure

So, would IAF pilot in similar circumstances would have been entertained.by these goras? How conveniently they would throw the rule book at us?

[Manish_P]

Looks like the F-35 was flying with AAMs on external pylon. Would have made it easier to detect it from a greater distance

[Manish_P]

Rafale Reemerges With Conformal Fuel Tanks
https://www.twz.com/air/rafale-reemerge ... fuel-tanks
12 June 2025

More than two decades after they were first trialled, a Rafale has reappeared with range- and payload-enhancing conformal fuel tanks.

Much sleeker and better looking than F-16 and the MiG 29 . (The F15 E side fastpacks are just way better though)

Would perhaps be useful for our naval version more than the IAF ones.

[Rakesh]

Much sleeker and better looking than F-16 and the MiG 29 . (The F15 E side fastpacks are just way better though)

Would perhaps be useful for our naval version more than the IAF ones.

Saar, IMVHO these CFTs look ugly. They make it look ungainly. But air combat is not about looks, so it really does not matter. The MiG-29UPG of the IAF, the F-16E/F Block 60 of the UAEAF, the F-15E of the USAF are all examples of beautiful designs looking like ugly ducklings post the CFT installation. The Rafale's CFTs are no different.

There is only aircraft that managed to win in the "looks" department with the CFT. It actually looks better with the CFT, IMVHO. And that is the F-18SH's CFTs designed by Northrop Grumman. See image below....drop dead gorgeous. To the un-trained eye, one would not even know if there are CFTs installed on the aircraft. Such is the beauty of Northrop Grumman's design...seamless and unobtrusive integration.

Image Source: https://news.usni.org/2016/05/24/boeing ... s-growlers

[Rakesh]

Pls understand the context...
1. Britshit F35 develops some technical snag, some say fuel level
2. Has to make emergency call to another country's airport
3. After touchdown, start behaving like lordship and not ready to comply with immigration procedure

So, would IAF pilot in similar circumstances would have been entertained by these goras? How conveniently they would throw the rule book at us?

I agree with the above, but Ernest is not incorrect either.

The pilot is in a pickle - if he leaves the aircraft, he will be pulled up by his seniors. India is a not a partner nation in the F-35 program. He tried his best to stay put, but eventually had to leave. But there is really nothing of value, India would have learned from the F-35 by removing the pilot from the scene. Any unauthorized intrusion into the aircraft would have resulted in a diplomatic incident. When you operate in a rules-based order (or at least give the appearance of doing so) you are required to follow the rule setter.

Otherwise, we have to adopt the Chinese attitude --> don't-give-a-sh1t-and-intrude-into-the-aircraft. Is India prepared to do that? Because if we are not, this discussion is academic. If this aircraft was near China, the pilot would have ejected and not landed. This is India and so the pilot felt much safer to adopting the landing approach.

And you are correct, that an IAF pilot would likely not get a similar treatment. Such is the way of the world.

[Manish_P]

...
There is only aircraft that managed to win in the "looks" department with the CFT. It actually looks better with the CFT, IMVHO...

Have seen the Rhinos sir (when Brar sa'ab used to post frequently) and it's top side CFTs are quite good.

But I will still go with the side mounted CFTs of the Strike eagle. They don't change the profile of the aircraft as much as the top mounted ones on the Rhino. Especially when seen from the front and side.

Looks like i am more a Hips man than a umm.. but to each his own right.

[Manish_P]

... But there is really nothing of value, India would have learned from the F-35 by removing the pilot from the scene....

+1

We have also recently done exercises with the Italian Navy which included their F-35s. Not that they would have exposed any critical tech at the time (just like the IAF Sukhois at Red Flag)

[ritesh]

Pls understand the context...
1. Britshit F35 develops some technical snag, some say fuel level
2. Has to make emergency call to another country's airport
3. After touchdown, start behaving like lordship and not ready to comply with immigration procedure

So, would IAF pilot in similar circumstances would have been entertained by these goras? How conveniently they would throw the rule book at us?

I agree with the above, but Ernest is not incorrect either.

Agree saar, goras attitude and seeking privileges is the issue. However, as a learning from this incident, SOPs shd be laid down upfront and non- conformance shd be automatically be evicted from our soil.

[Manish_P]

Apologies if posted earlier/elsewhere

Will be good to see such pods integrated on attack helis like the Prachand

F-15E Armed With Drone Killing Laser-Guided Rockets Appears In Middle East

We now have a picture showing a U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle down-range in the Middle East with an air-to-air loadout that includes six seven-shot 70mm rocket pods, as well as four AIM-9X and four AIM-120 missiles.

Incidentally the F-16s have already integrated them and have confirmed shoot downs of drones and subsonic missiles in the Yemen conflict

https://www.twz.com/air/f-16s-have-been ... thi-drones

[Rakesh]

Boeing confirms “very early infancy” C-17 Globemaster III production restart discussions as European market opportunity looms
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air- ... cussions-a
17 June 2025

The discussion of the C-17 comes off the back of Boeing’s focus on a growing European demand for defence equipment amid a growing threat on the continent.

[Manish_P]

Boeing confirms “very early infancy” C-17 Globemaster III production restart discussions as European market opportunity looms
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/air- ... cussions-a
17 June 2025...

Can't keep a good product down... even though the company itself is facing a lot of headwinds

We will be interested for sure i feel

Added - We should ask if they can start a line here... although we might need to gift El Presidente a bird or two

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Defencematrix1/status/1935279057073005056 ---> Meet General Arvind Badrinath, head of combat air for France’s DGA (The French Government Defence Procurement and Technology Agency) defence procurement body, who gave Updates on the Rafale F-5.

*F5 represents the final part of a mid-life update for the Rafale

*Planned major updates include an “extended-generation” radar RBE2 XG sensor, will use GaN T/R modules. The radar will have a longer target detection range as well as target tracking, and performance will become better against low RCS platforms.

*Thales OSF infrared search and track sensor with extended-range performance will also be fielded

*The fighter’s Spectra electronic warfare (EW) equipment will also be transformed into a fully digital standard for both detection and jamming.

*An inter-vehicle datalink will enable the jet to operate using low-cost smart weapons.

*F5-standard Rafales also will be cleared to deploy two air-launched nuclear weapons in the deterrence role: the improved ASMPA-R and France’s future ASN4G hypersonic missile.

*‘T-Rex’ development of its M88 engine, two of which power the Rafale. To retain the same dimensions as the existing version, this would boost output from the 7.5t- to 9t-thrust class with afterburner.

*The Rafale F5 could gain conformal fuel tanks (CFTs). These would extend range and endurance, and also boost manoeuvrability in some conditions versus the carriage of under-wing tanks.

[Rakesh]

Boeing In Talks To Restart C-17 Production
https://www.twz.com/air/boeing-in-talks ... production
18 July 2025

The ability to operate from short fields and haul heavy loads at jet speeds is coveted, but a C-17 production restart would be far from easy.

[Manish_P]

Boeing In Talks To Restart C-17 Production
https://www.twz.com/air/boeing-in-talks ... production
...

This is quite interesting for non-engineering guys like me.

How one of the most successful aircraft manufacturing companies with a long history of production still finds it difficult and/or just non-feasible to restart the production of a successful product whose production they stopped not too long back.

[pravula]

The jigs would have been either removed or scrapped. The line would need to be reset, all the tooling needs to be reconfigured, sub contractors will need to do the same, then there will be QC checks. The setup cost is usually high...Look at the GE 404 fiasco...

[Manish_P]

The jigs would have been either removed or scrapped. The line would need to be reset, all the tooling needs to be reconfigured, sub contractors will need to do the same, then there will be QC checks. The setup cost is usually high...Look at the GE 404 fiasco...

Pardon me sir, but a semi-baniya like me might think - well yes the setup costs maybe high but we have the knowledge of how to do it (having already done it), so do the contractors (if they are assured of orders), there is a big market ready for it (no need to advertise), the spares market demand will also be huge, the company is facing trouble on the commercial front... So why not?

Unless they have a revolutionary new design in the pipeline and want all focus on it...

I read some articles that over the past few years Boeing leadership focus has shifted strongly from engineering & safety to sales & profits. Maybe this rethink to restart an old successful product is an indicator of it.

[pravula]

No, the people who set them up initially are probably long retired or will not remember. Granted, there will be some efficiencies and will not run into big unexpected production engineering issues, but there will be some new stuff. Like say a particular grade of steel not being made anymore and will require a replacement...will kick in the full testing/validation work.

WRT spares, yes, most of these will be either pre-made based on expected demand (for ultra low volume parts) and the line scrapped or the line will be kept open (for high volume parts) till profitable (think Amby car)

[RCase]

I had worked with the Parker Hannifin guys who made the actuators for the C17 in 1989 (it was in the prototype phase) and utilized the software from the company that I worked with. It was one of the most complex pieces which required a ton of CNC machining of a solid AL- Alloy block and had complex surfaces and a ton of holes in all directions. Remember pushing the limits of an IBM 3090 running CATIA while programming for this part! A lot of technology and compute power has changed in the last 36 years. I am sure it will be a challenge to get all the vendors to produce those parts with updated technologies.

[Manish_P]

^ Ah. I think i begin to understand.

If i understand correctly it is better (more efficient and cheaper) to engineer and manufacture a new design rather than an older (even if proven) one, because not only has the tech moved on significantly but also the participants (OEMs, parts producers) will find it very risky and not worthwhile to invest specialist mindpower and machine power in remaking a retro design which after all the efforts may fail the hurdle of newer stricter rules & regulations for testing & certification in which the product and/or it's components might fall short of...

Thank you, gentlemen for your indulgence.

[nits]

5 days and F-35 still birthed on Indian Tarmac.

Story of low fuel does not add up
Day 2 - 3 they said weather is not good
Wondering what story for Day 4 - 5 - Tyre Pressure

something is fishy

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/ShivAroor/status/1936000351192138138 ---> Air India offers hangar space for British F-35 stealth fighter stranded at Thiruvananthapuram airport for 6 days & counting with major technical fault. Sources tell me @RoyalNavy has so far declined, contemplating offer.

[Manish_P]

Airbus Racer Compound Rotor Heli at Paris show

https://youtu.be/eugfQPAaOO8?si=WebLndIujXAKX4q7

[drnayar]

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/artic ... fficulties

Delays to FCAS, and France’s reluctance to procure American fighter aircraft, have the potential to leave the country as the last nuclear weapons state in the world without a stealth fighter, as India, Pakistan and North Korea are all poised to procure such aircraft in the near future.

[chetak]

Boeing In Talks To Restart C-17 Production
https://www.twz.com/air/boeing-in-talks ... production
...

This is quite interesting for non-engineering guys like me.

How one of the most successful aircraft manufacturing companies with a long history of production still finds it difficult and/or just non-feasible to restart the production of a successful product whose production they stopped not too long back.

Manish ji,


the problem may be with the supply chains which may have retooled and mostly moved on to other customers

they will not come back/reinvest if they do nor see some long term prospects for themselves

piece work will turn out to be prohibitively expensive, even for boeing and the DOD

[drnayar]

https://www.declassifieduk.org/fighter- ... to-israel/

The UK government suspended direct exports of F-35 parts to Israel last year but claimed it was not able to stop UK-made components being sent to Israel via third countries.

British ministers have said that stopping all F-35 exports would endanger “international peace and security” and suggested that Israel needs the advanced aircraft to “defend” itself against Iran.

Britain’s trade department further claimed it was not possible to track UK-made parts once they had entered global spares pools and stop them from being exported to Israel.

But the documents obtained by Declassified and The Ditch suggest it is possible to track shipments of F-35 components to Israel – including those passing through UK territory.

They further indicate how Britain continues to facilitate the F-35 supply chain to Israel even after the September arms restrictions, a finding which could implicate ministers in war crimes.

[nits]

30-member team to arrive in Thiruvananthapuram to inspect stranded F-35 jet of British Navy, UK officials refuse to move the jet to hanger or cover it, may airlift it out of India

The F-35 fighter jet of British Navy that made an emergency landing at Thiruvananthapuram last Saturday remains stranded after a week. Initially it was reported that the jet was forced to make emergency landing due to low fuel, but later it has been revealed that the aircraft has suffered serious hydraulic damage, with possible engine issues.

Several teams of technicians have tried to repair the aircraft on site, but have not been successful. Now, it has been reported that a 30-member team will arrive in India to inspect the F-35 jet. As per reports, the team will have British and American technicians. This will include experts from Lockheed Martin Corporation, the American company that makes the F-35 jet.

A new 5-member team from UK arrived in Thiruvananthapuram yesterday to find out the technical faults of the aircraft. The earlier team, which included a replacement pilot, returned to UK after it was determined that the jet can’t fly on its own without major repair.

The new team will conduct detailed inspection of the jet, and based on their report, the bigger 30-member team will come. However, the team will most likely work on taking the jet back to Britain, not repair it in India.

[Manish_P]

....
the problem may be with the supply chains which may have retooled and mostly moved on to other customers
....

Understood, sir.

Not from an aerospace or engineering background ( ), I naively thought that parts of transport/cargo aircraft didn't change anywhere near as frequently as those of say leading combat aircraft.

I now understand that not just the parts but the materials change too and testing and certification of all of them is a long process.

So better (fastest and cheaper) to go ahead with new designs. Otherwise your competitors will leave you way behind....