Vayusena & Nausena Rafale: News & Discussion

[Rakesh]

Tata-Dassault Partnership & 'Make In India' Rafales

The landmark production transfer agreements announced by Dassault Aviation, which manufactures the Rafale fighter, and Tata Advanced Systems Limited (TASL) may be a key first step towards meeting a future Indian Air Force requirement for 114 multi-role fighters. But many have questions. Can we call it 'Atmanirbhar Bharat' or 'Make In india' if only a part of Rafale is being built by Tata? Why have many long-standing jet demands not been fulfilled? Why India needs to change many systems related to manufacturing infrastructure? The questions are heavy but not to worry, NDTV's Vishnu Som and Shiv Aroor are here to answer all your queries!

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1934491216684400834 ---> The Indian Navy Rafale M deal: 26 Rafale jets to be delivered to the Indian Navy. Deal signed in April 2025 for ₹63,000 cr ($7.4 billion, deliveries by 2030). 22 single-seat M variants + 4 dual-seat B variants (land trainers)

TASL will build Rafale fuselages in Hyderabad from 2028, aiming for 2/month. India chose Rafale M because:

- It prevailed over the F/A‑18 Super Hornet in naval trials at INS Hansa’s ski-jump
- Offers commonality with Air Force Rafales, reducing logistics and lifecycle costs
- Brings advanced weapons (Meteor, Exocet, Astra) and future-proof avionics and sensor suite.

[Sumeet]

https://x.com/DefenceDecode/status/1934491216684400834 ---> The Indian Navy Rafale M deal: 26 Rafale jets to be delivered to the Indian Navy. Deal signed in April 2025 for ₹63,000 cr ($7.4 billion, deliveries by 2030). 22 single-seat M variants + 4 dual-seat B variants (land trainers)

TASL will build Rafale fuselages in Hyderabad from 2028, aiming for 2/month. India chose Rafale M because:

- It prevailed over the F/A‑18 Super Hornet in naval trials at INS Hansa’s ski-jump
- Offers commonality with Air Force Rafales, reducing logistics and lifecycle costs
- Brings advanced weapons (Meteor, Exocet, Astra) and future-proof avionics and sensor suite.

Astra on Rafale M, did we get access to source code ? Could Brahmos & Rudraam be integrated as well ? I believe you mentioned once that these will be F4 standard Rafale.

[Rakesh]

Astra on Rafale M, did we get access to source code ? Could Brahmos & Rudraam be integrated as well ? I believe you mentioned once that these will be F4 standard Rafale.

I have not heared anything post this news (back in 2022!). I am assuming this agreement - in the link below - ended up being successful.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7266&start=4280#p2567609

And yes, it will be the F4 variant of the Rafale M for the Indian Navy. See below...

VIDEO: https://x.com/Dassault_OnAir/status/1934636977183129626 ---> Test campaign Rafale Marine: discover these incredible images in four episodes!

Rafale Marine test campaign
https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/gr ... -campaign/
16 June 2025

At present, all Rafales (Air Force C/B models and Navy M/B models) being built on the production line - at Merignac - are specced to the F4.1 standard. The line will transition to the F4.2 standard sometime this decade. And all customers awaiting deliveries - French and International - are getting Rafale F4s. The F3R production block is no longer active. And the F4.1 variant has its roots in the F3R(I) variant, of which the IAF operates.

The ISE (India Specific Enhancements) that India paid for in the 36 Rafales funded the development of the F4.1 variant India's money certainly goes places, but very rarely into the right places (i.e. engine development).

[VinodTK]

France's Safran To Set Up Maintenance Centre In Hyderabad For M88 Jet Engines For Rafale

Hyderabad: France-based Safran Aerospace on Tuesday announced plans to establish a new entity-Safran Aircraft Engine Services India-in Hyderabad, which will focus on the maintenance and overhaul of Rafale fighter jet engines, specifically the M88 engines.

The initiative is expected to create approximately 150 new jobs by the end of next year, with the potential to add another 750 positions in subsequent phases, according to a press release from the Telangana government.

Pierre Fernandez, General Manager of Safran Aerospace, met Industries Minister D Sridhar Babu and announced the plans.

"We look forward to expanding our presence with the upcoming Safran Aircraft Engine Services India, focused on LEAP engine MRO services and scheduled to be operational before the end of the year, as well as a newly announced fourth site to provide maintenance for the M88 military jet engine powering the Dassault Rafale," the release quoted Fernandez as saying.

Safran currently operates two world-class sites in Hyderabad: Safran Electrical & Power India, dedicated to manufacturing electrical harnesses for CFM LEAP engines and the Dassault Rafale fighter, and Safran Aircraft Engines Hyderabad, which specializes in the production of rotating parts for the LEAP engine's low-pressure turbine.

The company expressed its gratitude to Sridhar Babu for inviting Safran to participate in a roundtable discussion with a delegation of French companies investing in Telangana, led by the Indo-French Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the release stated.

"Over the past few years, Safran has benefited from significant support from the Telangana government. We are proud to contribute to the region's dynamic aerospace ecosystem and to help position Telangana as a major hub for the aerospace industry in India," it added.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/AjayshreeSamby3/status/19 ... 0651724001 ---> MoU between Aerolloy Technologies, a wholly owned subsidiary of PTC Industries, and Safran Aircraft Engines to jointly explore manufacturing of components and materials for military aircraft engines.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/ANI/status/1937824394836877558 ---> Safran Aircraft Engines announces the construction of a new MRO shop dedicated to the Rafale’s M88 engine, in Hyderabad. This site will be the first one to maintain M88 modules out of France, marking a key milestone in our commitment to supporting M88 export customers especially the Indian Air Force. The brand-new shop will have a capacity of 600+ modules per year and will generate up to 150 jobs by 2040 and will help meet the strong growth of M88 maintenance activities worldwide.

Christophe Bruneau, Executive Vice President, Military Engines at Safran Aircraft Engines, says, "We are delighted to select Hyderabad location as the first export maintenance facility dedicated to the M88. This project marks an important step in the development of Indian sovereignty in aerospace and defense, while demonstrating our commitment to developing a world-class MRO ecosystem for the benefit of all M88 operators."

[Rakesh]

Safran Sets Up New India Arm In Hyderabad For Rafale Jets’ M&O
https://www.deccanchronicle.com/souther ... mo-1887370
24 June 2025

Safran begins construction of first M88 engine MRO facility in Hyderabad
https://mrobusinesstoday.com/safran-beg ... hyderabad/
24 June 2025

[Rakesh]

Hyderabad emerges as Rafale hub: French aerospace giant Safran to set up MRO unit
https://manufacturing.economictimes.ind ... /122085507
26 June 2025

[Rakesh]

India gets first international MRO facility for Rafale jet’s M88 engine
https://www.millenniumpost.in/nation/in ... ine-616417
25 June 2025

https://x.com/SimontiniB/status/1938029168781873382 ---> India gets overseas MRO facility for Rafale’s M88 engine. Boosts defence tech, strengthens global ties andadvances #MakeInIndia!

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/thepagetody/status/1936360168780108157 ---> France & India launched the Rafale Marine program, with a deal for 26 aircraft signed. India joins France as the only nation to operate all three Rafale variants. Tata-Dassault partnership boosts local production. A key step in Indo-Pacific defense collaboration.

[Cyrano]

How will IN pilots get trained and type certified on Rafale M? Since the M varient doesn't have a biplace? IIRC French pilots themselves go to the US for carrier training.

[Aditya_V]

How will IN pilots get trained and type certified on Rafale M? Since the M varient doesn't have a biplace? IIRC French pilots themselves go to the US for carrier training.

LCA MK 1/ 1A trainers Mig 29K for carrier training, IAF Rafale Trainers for type training, then train of Rafale M on land then move to carriers

[Cyrano]

Thank you for explaining.
LCA Navy isn't useful in this case?

[arvin]

Tejas NP5 variant will be used to train naval pilots

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/lca-nav ... evelopment

[Rakesh]

How will IN pilots get trained and type certified on Rafale M? Since the M varient doesn't have a biplace? IIRC French pilots themselves go to the US for carrier training.

See below (some are incoming/future platforms):

1. BTA (Basic Trainer Aircraft): HTT-40 (the Navy used to operate the HPT-32 Deepak in the BTA role)
2. IJT (Intermediate Jet Trainer): HJT-36 (the Navy operates the HJT-16 in the IJT role)
3. AJT (Advanced Jet Trainer): BAe Hawk (inducted in 2013 into the Indian Naval Air Arm)
4. Rafale B for cockpit familiarization + Rafale M Simulator training at INS Hansa (will incorporate CGI layout of INS Vikrant)
5. Rafale M take-off & landing (with various payloads) from the shore-based test facility at INS Hansa*
6. TO & Landing from INS Vikrant, using the Naval Tejas Mk1 trainer for real world carrier experience.
*The Navy will not use the Rafale B in Stage 5, as the aircraft does not have a strengthened undercarriage as in the case of the Rafale M.

Good instructors will identify and eliminate the rookies (in Stages 1 - 3) who will not be up-to-par. These unlucky ones will move on to other air platforms such as other fixed-wing aircraft (transport, ASW, etc) and helicopters that the Indian Navy operates. Flying fighter aircraft is arguably the most glamorous role for a Naval Aviator, but not every one can make the cut. Stages 4 - 6 above should be concurrent. Once the syllabus from Stages 4 - 6 are complete, the pilot should be fully qualified to operate from INS Vikrant.

The syllabus has not even been created as of yet. It will be a work in progress, as the deal was just signed earlier this year. The first batch of IN Rafale pilots (seasoned MiG-29K operators) will be the most experienced naval aviators the Navy will have. They will head to France for training and will also lean on the IAF for inputs. This group of pilots will form the nucleus of instructors from which all future Rafale M operators will lean on and learn from.

P.S. A second aircraft carrier (a follow on INS Vikrant) is long overdue for the Indian Navy. Budgets (and the Navy's obstinacy for a super carrier) are the main factors hampering the program. The issue has forced the Navy to switch to nuclear powered submarines versus funding for a second carrier. This is a discussion for another time and in another thread. The Navy's other carrier - INS Vikramaditya - is best not commented on.

[Cyrano]

Thank you Admiral!

On point no 6: Has IN placed orders for LCA N? How many are they planning to order?

[drnayar]

Curious about funding issues for TEDBF program .. what's the road map for future carrier based fighters for IN .. are they looking at Rafales beyond 2040s ? Is there a AMCA naval version ?
On the same theme , long range AEW&C for IN ..any carrier based capability planned ? ..if not there is no plan for an expeditionary force or power projection !!

[konaseema]

My guess is that the funding for TEDBF will come sometime next year as they have just signed the deal this year for the Rafale-M's. The next set of Naval assets would / should be a follow on order for another Vikrant type carrier along with the funding for TEDBF, Project 18 Next Generation Destroyers, Next Generation Corvettes and Minesweepers.

[nash]

IN's requirement of TEDBF is less than 100, unless IAF join this project and augment this number to 100+, chances of getting funding to TEDBF is very bleak.

[Rakesh]

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viewtopic.php?p=2650043#p2650043

[Rakesh]

Thank you Admiral!

On point no 6: Has IN placed orders for LCA N? How many are they planning to order?

Naval LCA Tejas will have to come. See "why" below;

1) The twin-seater MiG-29KUB (like the single seat MiG-29K) is notorious for having air frame cracks. Thus the reason - among others - to acquire a new MRCBF (Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter). The Vikramaditya and her fixed-wing fleet (i.e. MiG-29) has been a financial boondoggle for India.

2) Naval HQ will not risk their precious Rafale Ms without adequate carrier training. The fleet is abysmally small at 22 airframes, but more than sufficient for INS Vikrant. But a high attrition rate (like the Sea Harrier fleet encountered) will be unacceptable. So every step will be taken to reduce accidents as best as humanly possible.

3) The only other route is to do what the French do ---> send their pilots to the US Navy for real-world carrier take offs and landing. I doubt that will be palatable to the Indian Navy or even the Govt of India.

In light of the above, the only path ahead is a twin-seater Naval Tejas Mk1. That order will come. But since this is Indian defence procurement we are talking about, don't expect an order anytime soon. The F404 delivery is also painfully slow. But expect a fleet of around 8 - 10 air frames. It will also be valuable data for the TEDBF-S program. Dassault's decision to not pursue the twin-seater Rafale BM program (back in the 1980s) turned out to be a boon for the Naval Tejas Mk1.

A peace time air fleet aboard INS Vikrant will look something like this;

* Rafale M (fighter)
* Naval Tejas Mk1 (trainer)
* MH-60R (ASW + transport)
* Ka-31 (AEW)

[Cyrano]

That's exactly what I was rooting for when LCA N did it's carrier landings. Good to see things moving in that direction. However slowly.

[VKumar]

Two squadrons of N LCA would be a great backup.

[Rakesh]

https://x.com/Aryan_warlord/status/1940273977773236442 ---> As the Indian Air Force (IAF) moves towards selection of a MRFA finalist later this year, Dassault and it's partners have quietly put in the pieces with multiple facilities to make India a second hub for Rafale production outside of France. These facilities are;

* Safran Electrical & Power India - dedicated to manufacturing electrical harnesses for CFM LEAP engines and the Dassault Rafale fighter.
* Safran Aircraft Engine Services India - Based in Hyderabad, the first such facility for the M88 after-burning turbofan engine outside France.
* JV between Aerolloy Technologies, a wholly owned subsidiary of PTC Industries and Safran Aircraft Engines - to jointly explore manufacturing of components and materials for military aircraft engines, i.e. M88.
* TATA-Dassault MoU for manufacturing the entire fuselage for the fighter jet, marking the first time the Rafale fuselage has been manufactured outside of France.
* Dassault Aviation MRO India (DAMROI) - incorporated in India and based in Noida (Uttar Pradesh), is a subsidiary of Dassault Aviation dedicated exclusively to maintenance, repair & overall (MRO) of its military activities.

News also indicates that Dassault is in talks with numerous possible Indian partners to shift the production of Rafale wings to India.