Air Force Tejas Mk1A: News & Discussions: 02 January 2022

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Jul 2025 08:35

India as a nation has many times given up, made deals etc in 1000 years , it was Arbian horses, Ambi, kings who never challenged the Ghori and Ghauri while they moved to Somnath.

The challenge is to stick with it invest and get the problem solved, 114 MRCA is only creating a new problem. The payload for each Rafale for Hammer, Scalp, Mica IR, Mica Rf, Meteor costs USD 25 million, we cannot do more than afew sorties. Inthe 1971 war Su 7Bs stopped the successful attack s on Shorkot Road side they ran out of drop tanks, 3 per Aircraft.

However, disappointing, we need to bite the bullet and work on our problems. In 1998 our liquid fuelled Paki M9 M11, but today after 40 years our missiles are far better. Pakis are with M9 M11.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Jul 2025 21:02

https://x.com/pradiprsagar/status/1939197181014986909 ---> Next few weeks will decide — does HAL’s call stick, or does DRDO’s years of hard work get recognition? IAF, MoD, and India’s top defence minds are backing it. Now, it’s not just about technology — it’s about backing Indian systems and having the confidence to trust our own.

A make in India snub
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/up-f ... 2025-06-28
07 July 2025

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Jul 2025 21:13

Cybaru wrote: ↑29 Jun 2025 20:15 The value of whole plane is worth more than the radar itself. That is the need of the hour. Lots of old stuff is getting retired. If the radar is going to delay then it is okay to skip it for now. There will be 97 Mk1As and lots of MKIs that will need updating.

And they can upgrade the 83 as part of an MLU later on. This is not the end of the world. This should not be a reason to slow down production.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Jul 2025 21:17

Bharadwaj wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 20:36 What is more important is that we all hope our decision makers know what they are doing in sticking with the 404. This whole Lindsey Graham-Ukraine business has got me thinking very differently about the so called strategic relationship.

The Mk1A will fly with the F404 turbofan. So will the upcoming 97 Mk1A order.

Changing a turbofan involves a lot of engineering challenges that Cyrano explained. M88 Trex is khayali pulao and is meant for the upcoming Rafale F5 variant that will be entering service in the early 2030s.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Jul 2025 21:23

Bharadwaj wrote: ↑04 Jul 2025 07:04 Well ladies and gents I leave the following here for your kind perusal. They still have to complete full Astra integration. I give up. Somebody ping me when the first Mk1A get delivered. Probably September at the earliest.

Tejas-Mk-1A roll out from Nashik this month, Astra firing likely in Aug: HAL CMD
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 234157.cms
03 July 2025

At this rate, the MRFA is sure to come.

Bharadwaj wrote: ↑04 Jul 2025 07:04And the 2052 for the rest of the 83 builds is also confirmed.

This is not the time for Atmanirbhar Bharat. The IAF is painfully low on squadrons. The sooner Air HQ can raise up squadrons, the better.

Uttam AESA can come as part of a future MLU program i.e. like a Mk1B variant or something.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Jul 2025 21:24

Deliver GE engines on priority, conclude joint production deal, Rajnath tells US Defence Secy Hegseth
https://theprint.in/defence/deliver-ge- ... h/2676525/
01 July 2025

Hegseth invited Rajnath Singh for in-person meeting, says MoD. This was their third telephonic conversation since Hegseth’s confirmation in January.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 04 Jul 2025 21:34

My cynical take is HAL 100% knows it will not be able to deliver regardless of the radar change. It has floated this balloon of using Elta instead of Utasm hoping that there will be pushback and then it can justify the delay and its incompetence in project management.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 05 Jul 2025 01:24

Tanaji wrote: ↑04 Jul 2025 21:34 My cynical take is HAL 100% knows it will not be able to deliver regardless of the radar change. It has floated this balloon of using Elta instead of Utasm hoping that there will be pushback and then it can justify the delay and its incompetence in project management.

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 05 Jul 2025 06:04

Cyrano wrote: ↑03 Jul 2025 15:55 Otherwise Tejas will end up like Marut.

And that may be precisely what some foreign "friendly nations" are striving to achieve. You don't think there will be champagne / vodka / Bud Light toasts in various foreign capitals if Tejas goes the way of Marut?

Roop · Post by **Roop** » 05 Jul 2025 06:26

Bharadwaj wrote: ↑04 Jul 2025 07:04 ... I leave the following here for your kind perusal. They still have to complete full Astra integration. I give up.

I know, it is very frustrating.

I don't know what to tell you, other than I agree with you.

It seems that with DRDO and HAL we can never get a straight answer about timelines / schedules / deadlines.

Somebody ping me when the first Mk1A get delivered.

At this point, I think we should be thankful if we see this promised first batch of Mk1A's delivered within this calendar year. And no, I am not joking.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Jul 2025 09:32

Look very few countries have the capability and it is USA, Eur,Russia, China interests to keep it that way, they will use all tactics like they did with our nukes and missiles. It is easy to berate HAL but a infosys or Cognizant or IT VT KPO can't deliver this, HAL along with it's assorted vendors is all we have and we have to work with it. Just blaming HAL and thinking a 3 Lac crore import will not solve the problem.

This over negativity will not help

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 05 Jul 2025 10:27

Aditya_V wrote: ↑05 Jul 2025 09:32 Look very few countries have the capability and it is USA, Eur,Russia, China interests to keep it that way, they will use all tactics like they did with our nukes and missiles. It is easy to berate HAL but a infosys or Cognizant or IT VT KPO can't deliver this, HAL along with it's assorted vendors is all we have and we have to work with it. Just blaming HAL and thinking a 3 Lac crore import will not solve the problem.

This over negativity will not help

Aditya, I am a HAL shareholder and I have nothing but positive wishes towards them. Most people on this forum do not want any imports but the fact is that the whole engines are late story is becoming tiresome. You got the engine in April now why have you not delivered the first aircraft? They are clearly inexperienced in terms of getting LRU upgrades certified and tested. ADA is much better at this and IMO HAL should have engaged them more in the MK1A.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Jul 2025 10:36

So am I although a small shareholder 10 shares bought in apr 20 for 687 rupees which got bonus of 1:1, had I put in a few lacs today that capital gain would have been enough to run a few years of my life but no surplus cash hand to mouth existence. But simply whining cynical is not going to achieve anything. I am sure the cynics shutdown Marut and imported well in the 60s/70s. Import is always an easy stupid option.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 05 Jul 2025 10:52

Nobody here is whining cynical about anything but the fact is a simple upgrade programs is 18 months late. The engines bit one can understand but why has HAL not completed astra integration and handed over the first aircraft yet? Asking this does not make anyone a import Bahadur.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Jul 2025 12:04

Rakesh wrote: ↑04 Jul 2025 21:24 Deliver GE engines on priority, conclude joint production deal, Rajnath tells US Defence Secy Hegseth
https://theprint.in/defence/deliver-ge- ... h/2676525/
01 July 2025

Hegseth invited Rajnath Singh for in-person meeting, says MoD. This was their third telephonic conversation since Hegseth’s confirmation in January.

Good, Rajnath Singh ji must make a public statement that any future purchase commitments by the client India are contingent upon fulfilment of current delivery commitments by the supplier US.
Lindsay is a sideshow freak, his statements are orchestrated to keep India on the back foot. Ignore him.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Jul 2025 12:13

I dont think everything can be put out in public, the idea is to get issue sorted instead of public fanfare.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Jul 2025 12:54

Aditya_V wrote: ↑05 Jul 2025 12:13 I dont think everything can be put out in public, the idea is to get issue sorted instead of public fanfare.

The issue is US state dept policy to squeeze India for it's own ends.

If India starts painting US and an unreliable supplier, it will hurt future sales to NATO countries and RoW.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 05 Jul 2025 13:04

Vayutuvan wrote: ↑04 Jul 2025 02:16 Cyrano gaaru

Is it this stratfor? https://worldview.stratfor.com/topic

No Saar I meant our own Strategy Politics and international relations forum on BRF

rrao · Post by **rrao** » 05 Jul 2025 16:17

HAL wants to use EL/M 2052 because its proven Radar and already in use with weapon integration. HAL had a very bad experience with LRDE during the development of multi-mode Radar (MMR) for LCA. HAL is responsible for delivering the aircraft with RADAR integrated with various weapon systems. The status of UTTAM RADAR is completely not known, whether all the modes of the RADAR have been flight tested on a test bed, integration of weapon systems, availability of RADAR test rigs, etc.. Already, HAL is facing flak for the delay in delivery , which is due to non-availability of GE engines so far and it can not take further beating and delaying deliveries further by using a partially tested UTTAM RADAR. The reaction of HAL is natural.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 05 Jul 2025 18:01

This astra business has me wondering what the test firing which was successful a few months back was about? Normal Mk1 with the 2032 radar? I was under the impression it was a MK1 lsp with the 2052 fitted.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 05 Jul 2025 19:33

An utterly incompetent Govt PSU. HAL is solely responsible for paving the way for the MRFA, one brick at a time. Read the headline of the news article. These people need to be shamed publicly. If HAL gets the AMCA contract, it will go the way of the Tejas Mk1A. That will result in the Govt importing a phoren 5th gen fighter. The circle of life continues with HAL.

Not a single private player should team up with HAL for the AMCA program. It will be a disaster for them.

We are game for competition: HAL Chief
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 769034.ece
04 July 2025

In May, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh approved the execution model for AMCA and opened the doors for the private sector to compete with the Bengaluru-headquartered defence PSU.

The Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL), which will have to compete with private firms for manufacturing India’s indigenous fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) programme, has welcomed the government’s move to involve private players. In May, Defence Minister Rajnath Singh approved the execution model for AMCA and opened the doors for the private sector to compete with the Bengaluru-headquartered defence PSU to manufacture the indigenous fifth generation fighter jet.

End of Monopoly

This move ended the monopoly which HAL enjoyed for years when it came to the building prototypes and manufacturing of fighter jets. HAL chairman and managing director D.K. Sunil said that the PSU had no problem with this move by the government. “We have no problem with that; we are a very capable company and we are not really afraid of competition. The idea is to develop alternative players to HAL so we are ok with that. We will definitely participate [in the bidding] and we are willing to work with partners to see how to take it forward,” Dr. Sunil told The Hindu. “I would not take it in a negative sense that our monopoly is ending in that sense. We are a government company and we have been working since 85 years in the interest of the nation; so I think we are ok with that. We do not see any issue in that,” he added.

End of Monopoly

Asked if HAL had responded to the Expression of Interest (EoI) issued by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) which is executing the programme, Dr. Sunil said, “The last date is sometime in August. So we will definitely work on this. We are still discussing, we are looking at the details of how the evaluation will be done. We have already issued an EoI to 21 of our partners who have responded that they are interested.” He added that there were three options before HAL — either to go solo or as a consortium, or go as a joint venture — and that it will evaluate and take a decision in the coming month.

LCA Delays

On the delay in the delivery schedule for the LCA Mk-1A variant and on the criticism by Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal A.P. Singh, the HAL chairman reiterated that it was due to the GE Aerospace missing deadline for supply of engines. “The primary reason is the engine. When he (IAF chief) mentioned in February (about not being confident of HAL during Aero India) we did not have a single engine from GE though the airframe was ready,” Dr. Sunil said. He added that the first engine came in April and that GE had promised the second engine in July. “Apart from the engines we also have issues regarding the software, the radar, and the missiles. There have been some issues with iterations of the software so both these issues contributed but the engine was the most dominant,” he added.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Jul 2025 08:10

https://x.com/hindookissinger/status/19 ... Tymk2TdEXQ —> In its entire history, HAL has never met a single deadline. It's actually amazing performance.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 06 Jul 2025 14:04

^ And yet we have Shiv Aroor, Sandeep Unnithan, Snehesh etc not utter a pipsqueak about this in their interviews. Any decent media will make the HAL Chief squirm in his seat

What a sad show

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 07 Jul 2025 13:52

Sunil Saab on record again committing to 12 aircraft this FY. Let's wait and watch.

drnayar · Post by **drnayar** » 07 Jul 2025 15:52

Correct me if i am wrong.,

HAL cannot commit to building up an infrastructure/factory/jigs etc unless a firm order is placed ., this is when its a PSU

Are they expecting private companies to do it ?

How is the Govt planning to support a private player/s into aircraft manufacturing essentially supplanting / substituting HAL ?

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 07 Jul 2025 18:19

#CNBCTV18Exclusive | @GeneralElectric to supply 2 F404 engines for #Tejas every month till March 2026, Defence Secretary RK Singh tells @Parikshitl; adds that India is also planning to order a large number of drones and US-made advanced anti-missile systems to strengthen defence capabilities.

https://x.com/cnbctv18news/status/19421 ... 10856?s=46

konaseema · Post by **konaseema** » 07 Jul 2025 21:09

HAL is the lead integrator and the one which has signed the manufacturing agreement with IAF / GoI. It has outsourced the work to build the building blocks of the airframe and LRU's while many LRU's and other components are imported from foreign OEM's. Now 2 to 3 LSP's were modified to test various modifications that were to be done to meet the configuration of Mk1A. That being said, delays are part of the game with all these projects. We are a long way from becoming a mature manufacturing hub in the Aeronautical sector. GoI should seriously think of privatization of HAL if these delays are due to ineffective project management from HAL or at least make some changes to the HAL leadership. The other thing is for HAL to learn from all its past / present mistakes and only make realistic commitments that they can truly meet on future orders.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 07 Jul 2025 21:25

https://x.com/dotcom_1106/status/1942109709357715704 --->

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Jul 2025 00:27

Drag & Drop photo into new browser window for full size.

https://x.com/Defencecore/status/1942641984612728992 ---> HAL showcased 06 LCA Mk 1A Jet and 02 LCA Mk 1 trainers.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 10 Jul 2025 04:18

With Engine Issue Resolved LCA Mk-1A Fleet Set To Take Off

After prolonged delays, GE Aerospace will begin monthly deliveries of F404 engines for India’s Tejas Mk-1A jets from August 2025, totaling 17 units this fiscal year. So far, only one engine has arrived, stalling HAL’s production despite ready airframes and capacity to build 24 jets annually. The ₹48,000 crore order for 83 aircraft, signed in 2021, has seen slippage due to engine supply issues—not HAL’s production. The Indian Air Force hopes to receive six jets by March 2026. Designed for multi-role missions, the Mk-1A features advanced radar, EW systems, and precision weapon capability, underscoring its importance to India’s AirPower.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 10 Jul 2025 10:37

In order to keep the pressure up, the GOI needs to ask media to periodically publish articles critical of GE and the delays caused by them. Make a big deal out of how their unreliability is causing squadron shortage

Geopolitics & US Deep State pressures aside, GE, as a company, has a worldwide market. They *do not want* bad press that presents them as unreliable

We need to hit that vulnerability

HAL can play good-cop while media plays bad-cop

P.S: when the AI 787 crash report comes out & if it turns out to be a twin engine failure, that needs to be piled on as well. We should not be giving fig-leafs to either Boeing or GE

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 10 Jul 2025 10:53

Second that!

rrao · Post by **rrao** » 10 Jul 2025 12:52

Aditya_V wrote: ↑05 Jul 2025 09:32 Look very few countries have the capability and it is USA, Eur,Russia, China interests to keep it that way, they will use all tactics like they did with our nukes and missiles. It is easy to berate HAL but a infosys or Cognizant or IT VT KPO can't deliver this, HAL along with it's assorted vendors is all we have and we have to work with it. Just blaming HAL and thinking a 3 Lac crore import will not solve the problem.

This over negativity will not help

Aditya ji, better sense prevails at least with you.. what is the point in berating HAL ...HAL relies on imports, why dont the so called startups take manufacturing of passive components, raw materials and if they have more money chip foundries too. For purchasing materials the procedures are too long unlike in pvt sector.. All these add up to the delays.. most of the start ups in india are happy selling vadapavs, icecreams, dosas in kiosks..

wasu · Post by **wasu** » 15 Jul 2025 12:46

India Receives Second GE-404 Engine From US For Tejas Mk1A Jets

https://news.abplive.com/news/india/ind ... ts-1787917

Kanoji · Post by **Kanoji** » 15 Jul 2025 15:15

rrao wrote: ↑10 Jul 2025 12:52
Aditya_V wrote: ↑05 Jul 2025 09:32 Look very few countries ...
Just blaming HAL and thinking a 3 Lac crore import will not solve the problem.

This over negativity will not help
Aditya ji, better sense prevails at least with you.. what is the point in berating HAL ...HAL relies on imports, why dont the so called startups take manufacturing of passive components, raw materials and if they have more money chip foundries too. For purchasing materials the procedures are too long unlike in pvt sector.. All these add up to the delays.. most of the start ups in india are happy selling vadapavs, icecreams, dosas in kiosks..

And keep investing in GTRE, Midhani and other material science labs and build up the engine testing infra in Bharat. We need to start testing Kaveri in the Ghatak asap and simultaneously start working on the more powerful Kaveri Mark 2. This is going to be a harder slog than what we saw in getting our own cryogenic engine up and running. If our politicos, strategic thinkers and think tanks are serious about India being a super power by 2047 they have to start thinking like one.

Well I can dream more but I will stop with this, for now.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 15 Jul 2025 17:12

wasu wrote: ↑15 Jul 2025 12:46 India Receives Second GE-404 Engine From US For Tejas Mk1A Jets

https://news.abplive.com/news/india/ind ... ts-1787917

Good, looks they have started finally.

GE plan to deliver 2 engine per month from Aug till Dec-25.

That’s total 12 engine in 2025.

Jan-Dec 2026: 20 engine are planned.

ashishmact · Post by **ashishmact** » 15 Jul 2025 20:07

One stupid question. Let's say we develop tejas and enemy has gen 5 fighter but we have numerical superiority helps or gen 5 is gen 5 even if we deploy 3:1 we can't hold

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 15 Jul 2025 20:54

ashishmact wrote: ↑15 Jul 2025 20:07 One stupid question. Let's say we develop tejas and enemy has gen 5 fighter but we have numerical superiority helps or gen 5 is gen 5 even if we deploy 3:1 we can't hold

Reality: Enemy has 3x Gen5 fighters in numerical superiority.

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 15 Jul 2025 22:12

Beam weapons are overdue

titash · Post by **titash** » 15 Jul 2025 22:31

ashishvikas wrote: ↑15 Jul 2025 20:54
ashishmact wrote: ↑15 Jul 2025 20:07 One stupid question. Let's say we develop tejas and enemy has gen 5 fighter but we have numerical superiority helps or gen 5 is gen 5 even if we deploy 3:1 we can't hold
Reality: Enemy has 3x Gen5 fighters in numerical superiority.

That's a problem only if you play the game on their terms.

A stealth fighter will enable them to swat down our Rambhas & Katrinas, and allow them to dominate our skies - that's the theory.

But from an engineering perspective what they are doing is not allowing an X-band radar to come within detection & fire-control range

But then, what if you choose to solve that engineering problem. For example:

1) high power ground based radars that operate in non-stealth bands. A dense grid of multi-static radars that are networked in real-time and able to immediately detect stealth aircraft (without a fire control solution). That's the awareness part

2) since India is a "missile superpower" we play to our strengths; we launch a large diameter long range SAMs towards the predicted direction; a 2-way data-link will reorient the missile if any change in direction is observed; a second /third missile may be launched from a spatially separated (but networked) launcher if the energy loss on the first missile is considered significant. Basically you form a kill box

3) once the missile is within a certain range, it turns on the large diameter nosecone's X/Ku band fire control radar and homes in; if this does not provide enough range, then perhaps we consider launching missiles in pairs...each pair has an Imaging-IR missile and an GaN AESA RF missile to ensure maximum kill probability; even better, let the missile pair talk to each other and share seeker information so the missile with the highest sensor score (GaN AESA RF or Imaging-IR) controls the other missile

Use the IADS to do the job and make it very hard for the stealth adversary to escape the kill box.
In conjunction, launch a Tejas Mk1A with a CATS Warrior to make life harder for the J20 fat dragon.
Reserve your 300+ Su-30/Rafale fighter fleet to launch standoff cruise missiles at the enemy and not to engage within your airspace. That's how you maintain a flexible deterrent